Hi every one, Yes I am very new.
Is a programmer classed as a hacker or am I getting mixed up?
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Hi every one, Yes I am very new.
Is a programmer classed as a hacker or am I getting mixed up?
A hacker is someone who use to technology to find a workaround to a problem.
[originally, someone who makes furniture with an axe] 1. A person who enjoys exploring the details of programmable systems and how to stretch their capabilities, as opposed to most users, who prefer to learn only the minimum necessary. 2. One who programs enthusiastically (even obsessively) or who enjoys programming rather than just theorizing about programming. 3. A person capable of appreciating hack value. 4. A person who is good at programming quickly. 5. An expert at a particular program, or one who frequently does work using it or on it; as in `a Unix hacker'. (Definitions 1 through 5 are correlated, and people who fit them congregate.) 6. An expert or enthusiast of any kind. One might be an astronomy hacker, for example. 7. One who enjoys the intellectual challenge of creatively overcoming or circumventing limitations. 8. [deprecated] A malicious meddler who tries to discover sensitive information by poking around. Hence `password hacker', `network hacker'. The correct term for this sense is cracker.
The term `hacker' also tends to connote membership in the global community defined by the net (see the network and Internet address). For discussion of some of the basics of this culture, see the How To Become A Hacker FAQ. It also implies that the person described is seen to subscribe to some version of the hacker ethic (see hacker ethic).
It is better to be described as a hacker by others than to describe oneself that way. Hackers consider themselves something of an elite (a meritocracy based on ability), though one to which new members are gladly welcome. There is thus a certain ego satisfaction to be had in identifying yourself as a hacker (but if you claim to be one and are not, you'll quickly be labeled bogus). See also geek, wannabee.
This term seems to have been first adopted as a badge in the 1960s by the hacker culture surrounding TMRC and the MIT AI Lab. We have a report that it was used in a sense close to this entry's by teenage radio hams and electronics tinkerers in the mid-1950s.
The above is from http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/jargon.html#hacker
Cheers,
-D
The simple answer is basically:
Yes, but not all programmers are hackers.
i think we need to come up with a new way to classify programers. "hacker" "cracker" "whitehat" "blackhat" "L33T" "lam3r" "script kiddie"....ect, is getting a bit confusing.
how about just "full of ****" and "not full of ****"?
IMHO, i think i read it somewhere and liked it i don't remember, a hacker is someone who has learned a system, any system, well enough to make it work FOR them.
There are many people who program.
But hacking carries over into the mundane (RL) to everything you do.
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i think we need to come up with a new way to classify programers. "hacker" "cracker" "whitehat" "blackhat" "L33T" "lam3r" "script kiddie"....ect, is getting a bit confusing.
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I don't think SK is an good discription of these loosers, its much too kind.
two things to say
- trojan creator = programmer = hacker
- trojan user = not a hacker
but blackhole has raised a question that has been seen before on AO -
-trojan creator = programmer = hacker (or could it be)
-trojan creator = programmer = lammer/hacker !?
is it lame to program a device such as sub7/Bo2k and put it into circulation knowing fullwell what the s|<r1pt |<1dd13s will use it for? Same goes for virus writers - writing a good virus takes immense amounts of programming skill but does making it available to the world in general make you lame?
[nutshell]Would you be a responsible parent if you gave your 12yr old kid a loaded gun?[/nutshell]
i don't think so because it gives many a person their first step into the hacker/phreaker/cracker/programmer/security buff culture. I think if i had not seen that Dateline special on Back Orifice back in the day I wouldn't be here now. I'd be on aol, iming people and asking for their pics is where I'd probly be.Quote:
Originally posted here by valhallen
but does making it available to the world in general make you lame?
The steping stones are very important, these torjans, nukers, or what ever is lame but it is the inital intrest in this easy form of "hacking" that gets alot people into it. Now from here they have two options stay on this lame stuff or move on. The problem is not alot of people move on.
Hacker is the one who finds exploit on Internet or programs........
and they will turn in the exploit and fix it...
cracker is to crack while smoke crack :smiles:
Personally I think of myself as "Code Poet" and think white hats are for golfers ;)Quote:
i think we need to come up with a new way to classify programers. "hacker" "cracker" "whitehat" "blackhat" "L33T" "lam3r" "script kiddie"....ect, is getting a bit confusing.
I would consider a program who can read undocumented, uncommented code, writen by someone they don't know, and understand how and why the program works the way it does. Anyone can pick up "Learn C in 24 hours" and write a simple program. It is a lot more difficult to pick up the source code to Linux Kernal 2.4.12, and find a problem in the usb drivers.
valhallen> I think your nutshell comparison is wrong. The virus/trojan writer is not the parent. The parent is. The programmer would be more alonog the lines of Ruger or Smith & Wesson, the manufactures. The 12 year old kid only has internet access because its parents allow him/her to. If the parents don't pay attention, then the kid can do whatever (s)he wants. A good parent will supervise their kid with the loaded gun.
[nutshell] I can buy a gun for hunting, and you can buy one to shoot the guy across the street. I can download nessus to do a security audit on my company, and you can downlad it to do a security audit on your next target.[/nutshell]
Soulman -
I don't think most virii or many torjans have legitmate applications, like a gun would. Think of them more as illegal drug lab guys. They make an illict product that is dangerous to the end user/victim, but they are not putting a gun to anyones head to use em... Sure there are exceptions to the rule, but still most "black hat" seem to me to be unethical...
Our government used to (and might still) pay guys to make illegal drugs. I will admit most virii don't have legitmate applications. Now most trojans...thats a different story. What is the difference between sub7 and vnc? They are both free to download. They both allow you to look at the screen of the remote computer. They both allow you complete access to remote computer. Yes, sub7 has a bunch of extra bs built in, I will admit. VNC runs off the taskbar, while sub7 hides itself in the background. The MAIN difference is that VNC is a remote administration tool where sub7 is a trojan. So......
Q: is a program the same as a hacker?
A: No, Due to the media using the term hacker in a negative way I don't think its fair to call programmers hackers.
where can you download sub7 & vn?
Noones done it yet so I might as well.Quote:
1]AO is for security not for helping people use skript kiddie progs to get themselves arrested.
2]www.google.com
3]This was not a thread started to help people get ahold of sub7 it was started to help clear up a misunderstanding.
4]This is not a flame but with many more questions like that you will soon know what a flame is.
5]Do a forum search for the words: lame, script kiddie, flame, and sub7
Only 3 kinds of people I know of-
1) Whitehat: one who uses their knowledge of technology for the better...(broad range)
2) Blackhat: one who uses their knowledge of technology to piss people off and obtin their own amusement
3) The Others (Lamer): one who doesn't know sh|t about true technology
Well this ins my first post in a VERY long time, i broke my 69 # of posts and went on to 70 :)
St|\t|c , to what u say, that is not true, people can be in between, just cus you dont use your knowlage to help nor harm doesnt make you a lamer...... I dont really sit there and e-mail an admin if there is something wrong w. their box..... or i havent yet.... but i also dont harm it. I think there are alot of different levels as to "White Hat" "Black Hat" and all those others.
Souleman :) , i agree w. what you are saying, if i write a remote administration tool, or even a trojan its for me not for other people, im no lamer, but if someone uses it to do things that i didnt intend it to do then they are the lamer. btw soule your post # is 420 :)
Where u been lately havent seen u on the IRC
All hackers know programming and Not all programmers know hacking.
I'm considered a White-Hat Hacker but I also program. I think a good deal of programmers learn to program so they can learn to hack. Mainly to hack you need to understand programming,networking, and security.
All hackers know how to program and not all programmers know how to hack.
I just thought a hacker wanted to learn every corner of a system.
Hey Guys, have you heard???
Bodacion Technologies are offering $100,000 for anyone who can hack into their server system. pls visit their site for more details.
PS. Bodacion Mathematics is a relatively new but extremely chaotic branch under maths. No wonder these *******s are challenging us... One of these days, I'm going to.... (censored).
This is even worse then (the how do I hack hotmail) question. We need to come up with a word for people who are even lamer then script kidz. At least script kidz know how to use google to find sub7.
guss how you still have postive antipoints with a post like that I'll never know!
v_Ln
We can call em....... SubNerds! For SubSeven ****ups! :)