Do tell- A hacker or a cracker

Well,
Let me begin by saying I have been doing studies in computer security. And as you all know, you eventually come to the definition between the "cracker" and "hacker". One definition I liked was;
"A cracker tears things down, a hacker builds them up".

As I pondered on the differences as explained by others; the many sites dedicated to or leaning to one or the other, it was noted that they all contained (in a nutshell):

1. their views
2. their tutorials
3. their forums
4. their victory's

I began to ask myself,

1. what really keeps me in one group and out of the other group.
2. What really is the fine line between a "Hacker" and a "Cracker"?
3. What standard to I use or look to to balance and check myself?

After much thought on this I came to a conclusion based on this:

"What my morals have been based on and schooled by is my standard and guide".

Notice I did not leave it to just my "morals". Because morals can be subjective. But instead, I used a higher standard that my morals were built from.

Whats your opinon? What is the fine line?

Basically it is all irrelevant considering we are just users and generally anonymous, why keep morals, if I said I was a nazi or in the klan it wouldnt make much difference, Im not but it kinda applies to most hacker sites.

AO is different if you came on bragging about cracking youd be in trouble but most underground sites have an unhealthy view and doing bad bad things...

My opinion about the thin line is made with the help of Immanuel Kant. (Categorical Imperatives) (This does not mean that I have never crossed this line or will never do... it states an ideal situation)

1# Kant says that your individual motives have to be able to be wished for everyone (in general).

eg:
- when I have the opinion: steeling is good. this opinion cannot be generalized cause the one I'am steeling from does not like it. (if he/she liked it, it would undermine the concept of steeling. ---> conclusion: steeling is not in the set of rules you have to follow.

2# Kant says that when you are working with people you always have to keep in mind the means and the goals...
So you cannot do whatever is needed to reach your goals.

3# Kant says that your decide to follow your own set of rules (who are general, see 1#) cause you are rational. You are your own "law" writer and judge.


Translated to the hacker/cracker question: try to do nothing malicious.

The classic definition of "hacker" used to mean someone who could get root or admin priv. on a system. A "cracker" was a programer who would over come copywrite protection and serial #'s. The terms have since evolved into something quite diffrent.

It's all semantics anyways. Whether you call yourself a hacker cracker la chupa cobre or bozo the computing clown is irrelevent. People put to much stock in meaningless terms. It's what you do that counts. Terms are worthless and only seek to subjugate people (generaly people with above average computer knowledge) to artificial steriotypes.

Noble Hamlet,

who exactly would one be in "trouble" with if a person came into AO bragging about cracking some site ?.
bragging is very stupid to do and IMHO is the downfall of alot of good crackers/hackers .

Is AO working for the ememy (Lawenforcement) cause if so thats really lame,snitching on some1 is not something to be proud of. Theres nothing good about pulling a sammy Gravano.


Crimina1

Perhaps my wording has caused the argument to go towards eptimology rather then what was intended. That is, what is the fine line between breaking the law and staying with in the law. Now, that could be argued by "who's law"!

Let me try it another way. What is the fine line between "protecting others property and breaking into others property"?

That is, there is one who seeks for the good of others and finds exploits. And then there is the one who uses the exploits for their own good.

well both are basically in thesame level.. a hacker and a cracker..
a hacker uses his knowledge for the good of all.. a cracker just abuses it...

to a hacker he knows he is on a high level.. but knows dat wid great powers comes great responsibilities..

a cracker thinks he is God and can do anything he wants.. :)

A soldier has specialized skills an training.
He knows how to kill more efficiently than
you could.
That's why he must be disciplined, and exercize
self control.
A physicist, who has the ability to build nucear
explosives must not blow things up for fun.
A geneticist can crack the human genetic code
but has no right to use this knowledge to breed
a race of beings to suit his own whims.
A computer tech can see how these machines work,
but is not entitled to use his knowledge to rob banks
:cool:

ahhh, the distinction between a hacker and a cracker...
well, first I'd like to explain how the word cracker was born..
Cracker is what hackers call the bad guys... we (the hackers, or actually the hackers from about the 70ties and 80ties) was tired of been mistaken for criminals (just like us) so they invented the word cracker just so the media had something to call the computer criminals instead of hackers...
is might have been a good idea at the time but today it doesn't really work... the only ppl who knows what a cracker really is are hackers (and crackers.... not even all hackers know the difference... let this thread be proof of concept :) )
A cracker can be many different things but all crackers have some things in common...
they are all criminals (in one way or another) and most of 'em abuse the hacker ethics to make them sound innocent...
when talking to normal ppl (the cattle, the nothing knowing average media sucka who thinks the cabinet of a 'puter is the harddisk) don't use try to explain the use of the word cracker because the can really understand it anyway... just say this:
"I'm a hacker... I know about computer security, programming, etc. ... I find error and security flaws in other ppls programs so I can tell them and maybe help them improve the program... I never abuse what I know and never tell any1 about my knowledge if I think they will abuse it."
(that takes care of the hacker part, now continue and say)
"All the ppl the media call "crackers" or maybe "hackers" that break the law are nothing but common criminals... they just use a computer to e.g. break into a bank and steal money or to do vandalism... they are just modern more intelligent criminals but criminals none-the-less".

this is how I see things. It's a bit about moral, the moral that makes u think: "do I think stealing is wrong, or do I find it okay to destroy other ppls property"....
well that's it... PEACE! (sorry about the probably many typos but I didn't really feel like reading through all the stuff I just typed :D)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the term "cracker" originate from a NY Times article on a NASA break-in or something?
I think before the term "crackers", criminal hackers were just referred to as black hat hackers, as many of them still are.

Quote:

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Originally posted by jethro
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the term "cracker" originate from a NY Times article on a NASA break-in or something?
I think before the term "crackers", criminal hackers were just referred to as black hat hackers, as many of them still are.

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Hmmm... Don't really know... I just know the term is an old one... and yes crackers are still called black hat hackers but that's just as bad a term. The reason for this is of course is the following:
Take e.g. some article: "Today the cracker "i_am_a_stupid_sk" hacked into a big computer-firms main server and destroyed it..."
see the problem??? "cracker" and "hacked" in the same sentence. Ppl already know that a cracker and a hacker has something to do with eachother and writing things this way the difference between the two becomes smaller... the article could have been written like this:
"Today some 15-year-ord vandal used his computer to destroy a big computer-firms main server."
But they never write things like that... they like to sound modern and use all these computer-words like "hacker" and "cracker"... if they insist on using the word cracker they should write that the cracker "cracked" the firms server... not hacked...
I know this isn't an answer to ur question but I just thought it would be useful info.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Crimina1
Noble Hamlet,

who exactly would one be in "trouble" with if a person came into AO bragging about cracking some site ?.
bragging is very stupid to do and IMHO is the downfall of alot of good crackers/hackers .

Is AO working for the ememy (Lawenforcement) cause if so thats really lame,snitching on some1 is not something to be proud of. Theres nothing good about pulling a sammy Gravano.


Crimina1

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Possibly the FBI. AntiOnline works at catching crackers, if you didnt know that yet then what the hell have you been doing here for the past while.

This is a site dedicated to tracking crackers and if you look at the quote under the logo they use the term hackers, so dont think AO is an underground hacker site, if you are here thinking nobody is keeping an eye on your activities then you are indeed a very foolish person.

Noble Hamlet,

I really dont care what kind of "site" this is and I dont give 1 single solitary **** who is watching me because it doesn't matter. As for the FBI,ooh I'm soooo scared of a bunch of piss *******s in suits.wow they can put you in prison, the prisons in the u.s.a are more like country clubs.And as for AO being a snitch site I knew that but like I said "it doesn't matter". why do I come here ? because I can.
I can somewhat understand the FBI and so-called law enforcement looking for crackers/hackers because thats there job and even though they are really worthless at least they get paid for it.What does AO get ?
a junior G-MAN badge ? A pat on the back ? what exactly do these so-called "ethical" people get ?
Do you really think that its a good thing to snitch on some1 ? To be a RAT ? if you do then maybe your the foolish one. If some1 hacks you find out who they are and hack them back and make them feel sorry for ever ****ing with you.You dont go Crying to the FBI like a little bitch and snitching.Fight your own battles dont count on some1 else to do it for you.
Why in the hell would I want to help the FBI catch hackers/crackers just for the hell of it ? Why would I want the heat that comes with that,and maybe risking my life because some1 might have a bullet with my name on it just To "help" the FBI ? Thats really foolish.

Crimina1

Quote:

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Originally posted by Crimina1
Noble Hamlet,

I really dont care what kind of "site" this is and I dont give 1 single solitary **** who is watching me because it doesn't matter. As for the FBI,ooh I'm soooo scared of a bunch of piss *******s in suits.wow they can put you in prison, the prisons in the u.s.a are more like country clubs.And as for AO being a snitch site I knew that but like I said "it doesn't matter". why do I come here ? because I can.
I can somewhat understand the FBI and so-called law enforcement looking for crackers/hackers because thats there job and even though they are really worthless at least they get paid for it.What does AO get ?
a junior G-MAN badge ? A pat on the back ? what exactly do these so-called "ethical" people get ?
Do you really think that its a good thing to snitch on some1 ? To be a RAT ? if you do then maybe your the foolish one. If some1 hacks you find out who they are and hack them back and make them feel sorry for ever ****ing with you.You dont go Crying to the FBI like a little bitch and snitching.Fight your own battles dont count on some1 else to do it for you.
Why in the hell would I want to help the FBI catch hackers/crackers just for the hell of it ? Why would I want the heat that comes with that,and maybe risking my life because some1 might have a bullet with my name on it just To "help" the FBI ? Thats really foolish.

Crimina1

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You been watchin too many hollywood movies
:cool:

Quote:

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Originally posted by Crimina1
Noble Hamlet,

I really dont care what kind of "site" this is and I dont give 1 single solitary **** who is watching me because it doesn't matter. As for the FBI,ooh I'm soooo scared of a bunch of piss *******s in suits.wow they can put you in prison, the prisons in the u.s.a are more like country clubs.And as for AO being a snitch site I knew that but like I said "it doesn't matter". why do I come here ? because I can.
I can somewhat understand the FBI and so-called law enforcement looking for crackers/hackers because thats there job and even though they are really worthless at least they get paid for it.What does AO get ?
a junior G-MAN badge ? A pat on the back ? what exactly do these so-called "ethical" people get ?
Do you really think that its a good thing to snitch on some1 ? To be a RAT ? if you do then maybe your the foolish one. If some1 hacks you find out who they are and hack them back and make them feel sorry for ever ****ing with you.You dont go Crying to the FBI like a little bitch and snitching.Fight your own battles dont count on some1 else to do it for you.
Why in the hell would I want to help the FBI catch hackers/crackers just for the hell of it ? Why would I want the heat that comes with that,and maybe risking my life because some1 might have a bullet with my name on it just To "help" the FBI ? Thats really foolish.

Crimina1

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You are really, really naive. But lucky for us you're only a danger to yourself.

It'd be in your best interest not to have such a bold attitude when you know so little.

but that's just my 2 cents.

truthfully the margin between a cacker and a hacker is wat they think of themselves. Interpatation is how somebody becomes "evil" and it's the outside influnence that gets them that way. Because attention is a required thing for ppl they want to impressed people who kno **** about hacking or cracking (outside people). Like me, 13 year old, people think i hack into nasa or watever because of the freaken bad defenition the movies and tv shows give us. All this means is that the difference between hackers and crackers is wat they think of themselves and how much they let other people infulence them.


-Forever death be true, if life is to follow...

I would just like to say that the word hacker is used way to freely these days...i mean back in the day hacker was reserved for the elite MIT computer geeks now its reference to someone who broke into a banks server and stole a 1000 credit card numbers. now to me this is just plain crazy. I mean its like a friggin insult.

it is true that a 'hacker' do build things...
because he is a programmer in within...
he build something to make things more
secure and make something useful.

a 'cracker' however is the people who
makes things complicated. many of the
cracker that i have known is much more
in assembly language or the so-called
machine language... (trying to blant every
time the word mov cx,dx ; lea dx,msg1 ; etc.).

it depends on how you define those two!

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Originally posted by KorpDeath




You are really, really naive. But lucky for us you're only a danger to yourself.

It'd be in your best interest not to have such a bold attitude when you know so little.

but that's just my 2 cents.

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To begin with I have to say that I kind of have to agree with criminal even though he sounds
somewhat unbalanced.Anyone that works with the FBI cant really be trusted.where I'm from
we have more problems from lawenforcement than from criminals as a matter a fact in my area
criminals have a better honor code than your FBI or local cops,sad to say but true unless you live in
mayberry where all is always nice and great and the worst it gets is the firemen having to save a cat up a tree.
Another thing I dont think its in anyones "best interest" to tell anyone what are best interest are.
Sounds like your threatening criminal and I really dont think thats smart because when you really get down to it,what can you really do to a person from the web ? and I dont mean hacking thier box.

Another thing is unless you know this person how do you know what he or she knows or who he is a danger to ?sounds to me like your talking out your ass.But hey what do I know I'm just a Crazy Bitch and 1 hell of a programmer amoung other things.

Criminal go join a gun club you take take out your frustration shooting bullets at paper,it really helps.

your truly CrazyBitch

I just avoid calling myself either a hacker or a cracker since some people are bound to interpret what you say wrongly either way. So if they ask, "Are you a hacker?" I usually just say, "Well, I'm into programming and network security". I reckon it just eliminates a lot of the bullshit this way.

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Originally posted by smirc
I just avoid calling myself either a hacker or a cracker since some people are bound to interpret what you say wrongly either way. So if they ask, "Are you a hacker?" I usually just say, "Well, I'm into programming and network security". I reckon it just eliminates a lot of the bullshit this way.

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Best answer I've heard all day.
programming and hacking are academic IMHO,if you know programming it isn't at all hard to learn how to hack.
I like your retort better can I use it ?.

CrazyBitch <-------- thats me.

Quote:

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Originally posted by KorpDeath




You are really, really naive. But lucky for us you're only a danger to yourself.

It'd be in your best interest not to have such a bold attitude when you know so little.

but that's just my 2 cents.

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First of all,I do know what I'm talking about.AO does help the FBI catch and snitch on hackers/crackers
And I seriously doubt that JP gets paid for his "work" with the FBI,I dont think you can be a partime employee.
And like I said and I will again incase your deaf " TELLING ON PEOPLE IS SNITCHING AND NOTHING TO BE PROUD OF"did you get it now ?. As for me being Bold,I am very Bold,Bolder than you think.

I already know that your not to bright by making statements like "But lucky for us you"re only a danger to yourself" that tells me that your in the habit of judgeing people without knowing a thing about them,thats a MAJOR character flaw you shoud really work on cause its really dangerous.

You should never underestimate anyone unless you know them 100% and maybe not even then.
I'm glad we have people like you in the world because it keeps my pockets full of $$$$$.

Crimina1

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I already know that your not to bright by making statements like "But lucky for us you"re only a danger to yourself" that tells me that your in the habit of judgeing people without knowing a thing about them

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It seems to me that you're being judged on your confrontational and pompous attitude, but that's just my humble opinion. =)

lol first of all.. i think we should not fear the FBI but be AWARE of them.. i mean like.. i know some of u here think you are gods and the govt are just like little toy soldiers dat u can play around wid.. well think again..

what if u get caught and get in jail for 3 years? i know what u'll say.. "big deal" well big deal this.. for 3 yrs u'll be locked up in a cage.. in there you are "nothing" not a hacker not a gangster nothing at all.. but juz fresh meat.. new toy for inmates to play wid...

3 yrs wasted in jail.. locked up when u could have done something more... 3yrs might not seem much but i know some of u cant even stand to be grounded for 1 week.. well 1week in jail is worse dan being grounded for 1 week..

i can see it now.. God-like cracker/hacker in jail crying like a baby lookin for mommy coz he/she is tired of bein ****ed up da arse...

like i said.. a hacker knows he/she is on a higher level but knows that great powers comes wid great responsibilities..

crackers think they are gods and can do anything they want...

there is a fine line between being brave and stupid.. and crackers always cross that line and become stupid..

Quote:

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Originally posted by Crimina1
I really dont care what kind of "site" this is and I dont give 1 single solitary **** who is watching me because it doesn't matter. As for the FBI,ooh I'm soooo scared of a bunch of piss *******s in suits.wow they can put you in prison, the prisons in the u.s.a are more like country clubs.

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:rofl:


Ask someone who's done time if they wanna go back....LOL. The topic of conversation that the younger generation (not that I'm THAT old!) bring up at AO constantly amazes me....I hope this whole Hacker/Cracker debate doesn't take off. I've seen the forums at NEWORDER filled with this topic and there's never a clear cut final answer at the end....

I hate to have to say this, but you honestly have no clue what you're saying(nothing but bullshit). The reason no one thinks you're a danger to anyone but yourself is due to the way you try to act(like a three year old). I can tell alot about someone just by their post, and I can tell exactly what you are(lame script kiddie, aka KIDDIOT).

Here's an idea. Let's take a quick little trip to ZingLand. It's a happy place. You are the CEO of a major corporation. You have money, power, prestige, respect, oh yeah, and money. But very limited computing skills(but then again, how's that last part different from now?). Anyway, your customers do business with your company online. The system is very secure, and everyone is convinced that it's perfect. But then, the unthinkable happens. A cracker (or black hat hacker) gains illegitimate access to the server. He views billing information for your customers. He subscribes to thousands of pr0n sites using "his" new credit card numbers. Your customers are not very happy about that. Would you be?

So, to help calm their fears (and hopefully keep their business), you let them all know that you are working on "h4><0ring 7h3 h4><0r'z b0x" and will get him back for it. So what? That doesn't help them? You can't bring the cracker to justice just by momentarily crashing his machine. But the FBI can. Oh, and by crashing his machine, you made the cracker mad. So he unleashes another attack on your corporation. And again. And again. And again. Your corporation soon loses all its business, and is forced to file for bankruptcy. All because you had to be "1337" and fight back, not counting on others to fight back for you.

***ALTERNATE ENDING***
So, to help calm your customers' fears, you tell them that you have done a few preliminary investigations within your own server (viewing logs and such) and have turned the information over to the FBI. After a brief search, the FBI tracks down the cracker, and tosses him in the slammer for a while, to spend some quality time with his new cellmate, Bubba. Of course, this time consists of repeatedly being "violated" in a most unnatural fashion. Oh yeah, and he has to pay your company twice what he stole from his little exploit, which you then distribute accordingly to your customers. The cracker eventually gets off early for good behavior, and realizes that "Hey! I can do better than this!". So he gets hired on to various companies as a systems security engineer or something like that. He realized the folly of his ways, and, in the end, everyone won, because your customers respected your decision, the cracker reformed and began to work for good, and your company saved face.

Oh, and about the FBI being unable to do anything (or something similar to that which I believe you said): The FBI scares the crap out of me. They know more about me than I want to know that they know... But I'm not worried. I'm white hat. I'm a good guy. I'm a true hacker, not some badass cracker. I used to be a cracker, and the FBI came so incredibly close to busting me. But I got a second chance. Someone with your attitude will probably not be so lucky. Beware of the FBI. They have so many ways of gathering information. Oh, and that "hot chick" you were talking to on Instant Messenger earlier? Yeah, "she" is a fed. He's been watching you for some time. Sure, he can talk the talk and all... you would just die if you saw the log he has of those naughty sites you've been viewing.

It doesn't matter if JP gets paid for helping the Feds. As you grow up (older than the thirteen you are now), you will realize that there IS more to this life than money. When you help someone, you get a really cool feeling... a very good feeling. The same happens when you could do something wrong, but you choose to do the right thing. Fighting back, and sinking down to the level of a cracker or black hat hacker, is the wrong choice. Helping them be caught, LEGALLY, is the right one, and is always so much more rewarding in the end. You can't brag to a cop about "Hey d00d! I just h4><0r3d this punks box cause he pissed me 0ff!" But it always looks good to say "Yeah, back in tenth grade, I helped out the FBI. They were looking for this one particular cracker, and I helped bring him to justice."

I could go on forever on this subject, but I think you've gotten enough. But if I view more ignorance on your part, I will not hesitate to act.

*sigh* It's people like you that make me want to stop visiting the forums altogether. <sappy harp music>I remember back in the Stone Age when there were no threads like this one...</music>

*sniff* I miss the old AntiOnline...

--PhirePhreak

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we (the hackers, or actually the hackers from about the 70ties and 80ties) was tired of been mistaken for criminals (just like us) so they invented the word cracker just so the media had something to call the computer criminals instead of hackers...

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Example: Kevin. I have watched interviews with him in which he says, "the judge at the time actually believed that I could make one phone call and launch nuclear weapons ... ... I was shackled and handcuffed". <sigh> Also - raids all over in the Cap'n Krunch era of things.

~N~

Quote:

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Originally posted by nietzsche

Example: Kevin. I have watched interviews with him in which he says, "the judge at the time actually believed that I could make one phone call and launch nuclear weapons ... ... I was shackled and handcuffed". <sigh> Also - raids all over in the Cap'n Krunch era of things.

~N~

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yea... Kevin is a perfect example of how dumb the judges can be. But don't forget that Kevin did break the law and therefor he is a cracker... but I still feel sorry for the guy - damn he had to put up with a lot of lame ass ****...

Quote:

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Originally posted by smirc


It seems to me that you're being judged on your confrontational and pompous attitude, but that's just my humble opinion. =)

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As is mine !

crimina1

Quote:

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Originally posted by PhirePhreak
I hate to have to say this, but you honestly have no clue what you're saying(nothing but bullshit). The reason no one thinks you're a danger to anyone but yourself is due to the way you try to act(like a three year old). I can tell alot about someone just by their post, and I can tell exactly what you are(lame script kiddie, aka KIDDIOT).

Here's an idea. Let's take a quick little trip to ZingLand. It's a happy place. You are the CEO of a major corporation. You have money, power, prestige, respect, oh yeah, and money. But very limited computing skills(but then again, how's that last part different from now?). Anyway, your customers do business with your company online. The system is very secure, and everyone is convinced that it's perfect. But then, the unthinkable happens. A cracker (or black hat hacker) gains illegitimate access to the server. He views billing information for your customers. He subscribes to thousands of pr0n sites using "his" new credit card numbers. Your customers are not very happy about that. Would you be?

So, to help calm their fears (and hopefully keep their business), you let them all know that you are working on "h4><0ring 7h3 h4><0r'z b0x" and will get him back for it. So what? That doesn't help them? You can't bring the cracker to justice just by momentarily crashing his machine. But the FBI can. Oh, and by crashing his machine, you made the cracker mad. So he unleashes another attack on your corporation. And again. And again. And again. Your corporation soon loses all its business, and is forced to file for bankruptcy. All because yotu had to be "1337" and fight back, not counting on others to fight back for you.

***ALTERNATE ENDING***
So, to help calm your customers' fears, you tell them that you have done a few preliminary investigations within your own server (viewing logs and such) and have turned the information over to the FBI. After a brief search, the FBI tracks down the cracker, and tosses him in the slammer for a while, to spend some quality time with his new cellmate, Bubba. Of course, this time consists of repeatedly being "violated" in a most unnatural fashion. Oh yeah, and he has to pay your company twice what he stole from his little exploit, which you then distribute accordingly to your customers. The cracker eventually gets off early for good behavior, and realizes that "Hey! I can do better than this!". So he gets hired on to various companies as a systems security engineer or something like that. He realized the folly of his ways, and, in the end, everyone won, because your customers respected your decision, the cracker reformed and began to work for good, and your company saved face.

Oh, and about the FBI being unable to do anything (or something similar to that which I believe you said): The FBI scares the crap out of me. They know more about me than I want to know that they know... But I'm not worried. I'm white hat. I'm a good guy. I'm a true hacker, not some badass cracker. I used to be a cracker, and the FBI came so incredibly close to busting me. But I got a second chance. Someone with your attitude will probably not be so lucky. Beware of the FBI. They have so many ways of gathering information. Oh, and that "hot chick" you were talking to on Instant Messenger earlier? Yeah, "she" is a fed. He's been watching you for some time. Sure, he can talk the talk and all... you would just die if you saw the log he has of those naughty sites you've been viewing.

It doesn't matter if JP gets paid for helping the Feds. As you grow up (older than the thirteen you are now), you will realize that there IS more to this life than money. When you help someone, you get a really cool feeling... a very good feeling. The same happens when you could do something wrong, but you choose to do the right thing. Fighting back, and sinking down to the level of a cracker or black hat hacker, is the wrong choice. Helping them be caught, LEGALLY, is the right one, and is always so much more rewarding in the end. You can't brag to a cop about "Hey d00d! I just h4><0r3d this punks box cause he pissed me 0ff!" But it always looks good to say "Yeah, back in tenth grade, I helped out the FBI. They were looking for this one particular cracker, and I helped bring him to justice."

I could go on forever on this subject, but I think you've gotten enough. But if I view more ignorance on your part, I will not hesitate to act.

*sigh* It's people like you that make me want to stop visiting the forums altogether. <sappy harp music>I remember back in the Stone Age when there were no threads like this one...</music>

*sniff* I miss the old AntiOnline...

--PhirePhreak

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Why dont you and JP just go and apply to be little FBI AGENTS and help catch all the really bad guys doing all the really bad things in computer land ?.I have alot more respect for crackers and some criminals
than I have for people that deal with the FBI and Cops.DONT MAKE ASUMPTIONS,I'm alot older than 13
and didn't get to this "cavalier"age by working with the FBI or COPS.
Some people here act like they are so self righteous and really dont know anything about anything,I've never been a "script kiddie" although script kiddies do get an E for Effort which is alot more than you probly
put in to your "opinion".
Why does mostly everyone here act like they know it all ?If I knew that antionline had a bunch of rocket
scientist on hand I would've saved my tuition and just came here and let all you brain surgeons save me some $$$$$$;NOT.

It's people with your naivete that keep me in business people that think that they know people and dont know ****. keep up the trend I need a new car,your probly from some bum**** hic town where crime is just a word and your whole police force is 50 total.go Phreak a phone and move out of mommies house,grow some real balls and then talk about what you know not what you think you know.Script kiddie.

Crimina1

What is with all the hostilities lets all get along and not be immature.



God bless

Quote:

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Originally posted by s0nIc
lol first of all.. i think we should not fear the FBI but be AWARE of them.. i mean like.. i know some of u here think you are gods and the govt are just like little toy soldiers dat u can play around wid.. well think again..

what if u get caught and get in jail for 3 years? i know what u'll say.. "big deal" well big deal this.. for 3 yrs u'll be locked up in a cage.. in there you are "nothing" not a hacker not a gangster nothing at all.. but juz fresh meat.. new toy for inmates to play wid...

3 yrs wasted in jail.. locked up when u could have done something more... 3yrs might not seem much but i know some of u cant even stand to be grounded for 1 week.. well 1week in jail is worse dan being grounded for 1 week..

i can see it now.. God-like cracker/hacker in jail crying like a baby lookin for mommy coz he/she is tired of bein ****ed up da arse...

like i said.. a hacker knows he/she is on a higher level but knows that great powers comes wid great responsibilities..

crackers think they are gods and can do anything they want...

there is a fine line between being brave and stupid.. and crackers always cross that line and become stupid..

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Why does everyone think that someone named "BuBBa is going to make them a bitch if they go to prison?
It's people that think like that that wind up being the ones to get it in the ass.In reality none can make you a bitch unless you let them or want to be thier bitch.Stop watching movies they are not true.
The FBI doesn't have anything that the average criminal doesn't have or cant get so why are so many people so scared of them ?Because they are scared of prison.But why be scared? if your man enough
to do whatever it is you did ,why aren't you man enough to do your time if you get caught?.Those are your true Bitches.I like to call them SCARED STRAIGHT BITCHES because they have no back bone like alot of you so-called self profaned "hackers" here.
s0nic these days imates even get to have sex with thier very own spouses(women) not BuBBa unless you want him.Cages dont exist and they even get cable tv at tax payers expense,at some prisons you even have golf courts.So if I were going to hack something I would dam sure make sure it was well worth the money or not waste my time with it,but not because I let the FBI scare me into not doing it.
They are just people not aleins.If I had a dime for everytime a lawofficer told me I would go prison or else,
I would have alot more money.Depending on what it is,it's always well worth the risk.The worst that can happen is you get caught and do some time.You use that time to get better at your trade so when you come out you will be that much better.

Crimina1

Hmmm...what started out as a good post turned into some kind of holy war, no doubt pitting hackers against crackers. Someone set us up the bomb! Guys, who gives a rat's ass if someone wants to do their skript kiddy DoS against some business? Nothing's gonna happen to them anyways because, guess what, they're a minor! All I can do (and others) is secure my boxes tighter than a bunch of virgins on their first night and keep my end secure, that's all. I try to pass on my knowledge when I can to whoever wants to learn how to really do something right, whether it be security or programming or unix administration, but the end result is the same. Maybe then they won't have to go out and do all the usual bullshit of script kiddy behaviour. On here, pass the knowledge out. And if you're a cracker, don't fscking hype yourself up. Nobody cares. And if you're a hacker, don't fscking hype yourself up either. Nobody cares. All *I* care about is learning more **** to help me be of better service to others and to do my job better. AND, if I can pass on something I learned to someone else to help them do their job better, then I've succeeded. If I pass on some tip I got on here to someone to help them prevent a hack or something and it works, then BOOYA I've succeeded and then, just maybe, they'll come on here to learn more too. And what will they see?

A bunch of idiots talking about how badass they are....just what we DON'T want them to see.
Can we get some teamwork going? Maybe? Perhaps? Think about it? I mean, I can get my group (all 2 of us, hehe...and the other person knows who they are) to help me, but just US two can't do it alone.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Vorlin
Hmmm...what started out as a good post turned into some kind of holy war, no doubt pitting hackers against crackers. Someone set us up the bomb! Guys, who gives a rat's ass if someone wants to do their skript kiddy DoS against some business? Nothing's gonna happen to them anyways because, guess what, they're a minor! All I can do (and others) is secure my boxes tighter than a bunch of virgins on their first night and keep my end secure, that's all. I try to pass on my knowledge when I can to whoever wants to learn how to really do something right, whether it be security or programming or unix administration, but the end result is the same. Maybe then they won't have to go out and do all the usual bullshit of script kiddy behaviour. On here, pass the knowledge out. And if you're a cracker, don't fscking hype yourself up. Nobody cares. And if you're a hacker, don't fscking hype yourself up either. Nobody cares. All *I* care about is learning more **** to help me be of better service to others and to do my job better. AND, if I can pass on something I learned to someone else to help them do their job better, then I've succeeded. If I pass on some tip I got on here to someone to help them prevent a hack or something and it works, then BOOYA I've succeeded and then, just maybe, they'll come on here to learn more too. And what will they see?

A bunch of idiots talking about how badass they are....just what we DON'T want them to see.
Can we get some teamwork going? Maybe? Perhaps? Think about it? I mean, I can get my group (all 2 of us, hehe...and the other person knows who they are) to help me, but just US two can't do it alone.

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i couldn't have said it better myself... :)

Quote:

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Originally posted by Vorlin
Hmmm...what started out as a good post turned into some kind of holy war, no doubt pitting hackers against crackers. Someone set us up the bomb! Guys, who gives a rat's ass if someone wants to do their skript kiddy DoS against some business? Nothing's gonna happen to them anyways because, guess what, they're a minor! All I can do (and others) is secure my boxes tighter than a bunch of virgins on their first night and keep my end secure, that's all. I try to pass on my knowledge when I can to whoever wants to learn how to really do something right, whether it be security or programming or unix administration, but the end result is the same. Maybe then they won't have to go out and do all the usual bullshit of script kiddy behaviour. On here, pass the knowledge out. And if you're a cracker, don't fscking hype yourself up. Nobody cares. And if you're a hacker, don't fscking hype yourself up either. Nobody cares. All *I* care about is learning more **** to help me be of better service to others and to do my job better. AND, if I can pass on something I learned to someone else to help them do their job better, then I've succeeded. If I pass on some tip I got on here to someone to help them prevent a hack or something and it works, then BOOYA I've succeeded and then, just maybe, they'll come on here to learn more too. And what will they see?

A bunch of idiots talking about how badass they are....just what we DON'T want them to see.
Can we get some teamwork going? Maybe? Perhaps? Think about it? I mean, I can get my group (all 2 of us, hehe...and the other person knows who they are) to help me, but just US two can't do it alone.

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Well put vorlin.your 150% correct !

Crimina1

I promised myself not to reply here...but
I agree with zion1459 (and Vorlin). (post #35 and #34)

Just my observation but,

1. The hackers seem to post replies that seek to help, except in replies to crackers.
2. Crackers seem to post replies that imply anger with in them. Anger at the world.

Therefore, the terminology that "hackers build up and crackers tear down" seems to lead to a correct one.

In order for me to learn the profession of a "protector/security" professional I would need the mentorship from both. I need the dicipline of the hacker and the drive of the cracker. That would make one hell of white hat.

Here is how I view it.

1) Cracker - Obviously someone that cracks things. Whether they are cracking a login, a serial number, encryption, or whatever.

2) Hacker - People that have a thirst for knowledge, usually involving electronic devices.

IMHO, Crackers are hackers, but they are usually using there knowledge not to benefit anyone except theirselves, even if it is hurting someone. For example, web site crackers. They crack a web site and throw up their handle so they can seem cool to their peers, meanwhile not caring that they are hurting someone's business that the person worked all their life to create. But then their are the crackers that do benefit the field. Cryptographers for example. So we can't really say that all crackers are evil, just like we can't say that hackers are all bad just because of some trouble makers.

What it comes down to is not necessarily what title you hold, it's what kind of person you are. There are good people and there are bad people. What you do with your knowledge reflects what kind of person you are. If you crack a site and ruin someone's business, then you my friend are an *******. In my opinion, yes you are a cracker because you cracked, and you most likely are a hacker because your thirst for knowledge eventually led you to learn how to crack. But you are an ******* as a person.

So basically IMHO, some people suck and some people don't. :-)

ok... here's the shortest version of how to distinguish between a hacker and a cracker I could come up with:
As we all know, hackers are the good guys. So when we meet some1 we think is a hacker but the person turns out to be "not such a good guy" then that person must be a cracker.

This isn't a very good way to distinguish between the two types of ppl but it's better than nothing.

Or how about this: Hacking is a profession... cracking isn't....
there... that has to be the shortest explanation ever made... :D