A "Free" Forum

The death penality thread caused me to consider a couple of things last night. A couple of poeple there got -points just because they expressed thier point of view ( I then went and hit them with green to balance it..even with some I disagreed with) The point system that we have is a somewhat accurate way of determining validity of a poster. The most noteworthy flaw is that poeple don't use -points in the way they were meant. I give -points to rude and obnoxous posts,not to those I disagree with. I propose a "free" forum where points cannot be assigned. I realise the chaos this could create if not moderated properly...therefor I propose that it be moderated. Poeple would then be able to express thier ideas in a polite and considerate way without fear of unjust reprisal. This forum would best be restricted to "cosmos" like issues. Perhaps Negative would volunteer his forum? We could then get a "pure" picture of poeple's positions without them posting just to get +points.
I haven't spoken with Negative about this and I hope I am not speaking out of turn.
JP what is your point of view on this?

i agree with you. that's the way things should be. this forum should support other
people's views, creating diversity. negative antipoints should not be given to ppl
just b/c you disagree with them. if that were true, none of us might have any
positive antipoints! i support diversity and everyone's opinion is welcome to me.
only if a person is rude, should you give negative antipoints. i'm glad to post to a
forum with people like you. :)

Great idea! I think a forum where people can speak their minds without having to be worried about getting negative antipoints would really have people give honest opinions.

I have to agree as well. I'm quite dismayed that people would give out negative antipoints just because someone has a different point of view on it. That's the one thing about freedom of speech: the ability to disagree. That said, that doesn't mean you should go a post something inane and useless.

I don't know about Negative but if it were me, I'd ask for the ability to have the AP system not apply there or something like that.

Of course I'd volunteer *cough* my *cough* forum... The original idea for the private forums was an 'invitation only'-forum, where antipoints wouldn't count, if I remember well... Don't know about the 'invitation only'-system, but cancelling the antipoints-system for those forums sounds like a good idea...

I only see one problem: if I really want to give someone antipoints - but am not allowed to do so on the private forums - I'd just go to the 'public forums' and assign my antipoints there...

The problem is that the real jerks would just look for a totally unrelated post of yours in a normal forum and then sock it to you. <shrug> Nice idea in theory, but the execution isn't really practical.

"A couple of poeple there got -points just because they expressed thier point of view"
- That's stupid. They shouldn't have recived negative points for posting their opinions after I asked them to.. I also added positive points to most of the people that replied with their own opinions even if i didn't agree with them.

"this forum should support other people's views, creating diversity."
- I couldn't have said it better my self.

"I have to agree as well. I'm quite dismayed that people would give out negative antipoints just because someone has a different point of view on it."
- So am I, especially after I specificaly asked people to post their point of view.

"The problem is that the real jerks would just look for a totally unrelated post of yours in a normal forum and then sock it to you. "
- *sigh* Yup, that's the problem..

Perhaps there should be a forum for special members, like the moderators, ppl with good post, and high level of antipoints.. then may be have ppl restricted by 250 post by viewind the thread and then the usr must send in a request to the moderator for the ability to post in that forum. Just a suggestion. ;)

Remote_Access_

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Originally posted by uraloony
Great idea! I think a forum where people can speak their minds without having to be worried about getting negative antipoints would really have people give honest opinions.

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It would be nice to write freely without fear of being judged by your peers.


Speaking of which, I had just finished writing a huge thread titled "The (alleged) Hypocrisy of the US Government" for the cosmos thread but alas, fear of overly supportive US citizens with their hoards of neg points scared me from clicking the "send" button....

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Originally posted by Terr
The problem is that the real jerks would just look for a totally unrelated post of yours in a normal forum and then sock it to you. <shrug> Nice idea in theory, but the execution isn't really practical.

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You are probally right Terr...I just got an example of that in my post here:

http://www.antionline.com/showthread...hreadid=155344

Somebody hit me with 6 -points for my post to the Preacher's thread. Could I have offended someone without knowing it? Well ...anyway they might single out members who they feel don't deserve the points they have .but they would at least leave new members alone. It wouldn't be worth thier while to track down another post by someone like that. I'm sure that even with all the points you have you still get stupid -points assigned without just cause(you just never mention it .right?) We do not want to discourage new members with unjust persecution.

Hm. It certainly wouldn't be workable to make the antipoints incomplete until passed by a moderator. Playing favorites and the sheer volume of antipoints would bring it down... I guess the best thing we can all do is look at posts which are "off" and do our best to correct them... the problem is overcompensating. I can't make a tiny-bit-negative post an even post, it tends to go overboard...

WHOAH! BRAIN FART! Here's an idea!
New antipoint-assignment option for advanced users (maybe requires an extra click or two)... the option: "assign toward even". This means that if the post was negative or positive, you could choose "assign toward even" rather than just "agree" or "disagree".

If a user chose that, then the system would record them as having assigned just enough antipoints to bring the post to an 'even' level, up to their max antipoint-whumph...

What I mean is.. example: If a post in 2 points under (-2 points), and I want to add 2 points(+2), I can't, because it probably does some ungodly number instead(+7?), and pushes it over to positive (which I might disagree with)..

So "assign towards even" could use your antipoints in a smaller increment, so I could choose that, and it would stop my input from swinging the balance over 0...

I'm having a hard time explaining this in my own head :D The basic idea would be that you could assign less than your usual potency in order to bring it to even, instead of using full potency and overcompensating...

A "Free" Forum sounds like a great idea !

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Originally posted by Terr

WHOAH! BRAIN FART! Here's an idea!
New antipoint-assignment option for advanced users (maybe requires an extra click or two)... the option: "assign toward even". This means that if the post was negative or positive, you could choose "assign toward even" rather than just "agree" or "disagree".

If a user chose that, then the system would record them as having assigned just enough antipoints to bring the post to an 'even' level, up to their max antipoint-whumph...

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EXCELLENT idea!! I will be giving you greenpoits for this one later.(my daily quota is used)
That is the perfect solution for a problem I forsee....and that is someone making false claims of unjust points just for the sympathy (and probable +points) You could then just make it even.

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Originally posted by antihaxor
That is the perfect solution for a problem I forsee....and that is someone making false claims of unjust points just for the sympathy (and probable +points) You could then just make it even.

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True, I've noticed a lot of "sympathy ploy" around lately.

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EXCELLENT idea!! I will be giving you greenpoits for this one later.(my daily quota is used)

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NO! Give me red, I BEG YOU!! I feel so guilty! It's like having a nice dinner and then sitting down and seeing a documentary on starving children in Uganda!

Edit/Add:

Ooh! Additional thing: Can it put the remainder of the points into a "even" tank, so that even if people assign "badly placed" points after you even it, you get your full value? Hmm... wait... I mean...

Post has -4, Your member category assigns 8pts for every assignment. You assign-to-even the post. The post goes to 0, and the remaining 4 of your points are put in the (default 0) 'even' point pool for that post. Whenever anyone changes that post, it takes one of their points to counteract one of yours.

So the next person, whose member category assigns 6pts, decides he doesn't like the user who made the post. 4 of his points counteract the 4 in the 'even pool', so the post is down to -2 pts...

I know it is sort of overcomplicated... <shrug>

Sounds good to me. I like the thought that one can 'shade' one's Anti-point assignment, especially on the more subjective subjects. A 'balance' or 'even-it-out' choice sounds good.

I like it, specialy the evening out part.
Though I wonder: what is the REAL point of antipoints? all that they do is cause trouble like this....

AntiHaxor, I agree with your idea for a free forum, and I suggest that you be the moderator. Actually I would like to volunteer to be a moderator too if this forum comes into existence.

You can have it Preach....I would be happy to post to it though

Just bumping this up to bring attention to the "Assign towards even" idea. (For those posts which you think are mediocre rather than very bad/good, but you don't want to overreact.)

I would like that because I tend to get alot of neg antipoints for my opinions. Well hopefully this forum can be up and running soon. Great idea! :)

I just wanted to reply to this thread and wonder if this is where the "antipoint assignment balance" came from?..also did this forum ever get off the ground? Where's the Preacher?

I think Terr's idea ia one of the best for keeping AP abuse down. Everyone has been hit with negs for no good reason. It is ridiculous.

I like the idea that we as a community could help balance out the problem of the "balancing out AP's".

Well this sounds like a good idea...

Antihaxor...you've been away for awhile evidently, so first let me say 'welcome back'...I don't know you but I have read and enjoyed some of your past posts and it's nice to know your back and contributing again. Secondly, watch out for 'drive-by' Ap's....lots of good people and good threads have been getting shot down of late by seemingly random salvos of reds.

y0 antihax0r thats a great idea bro. i cant post a damn thing without getting negged all to hell. if i posted a 30000 page tutorial on how to construct a processor that runs at like 15.7 ghz, and gave free procs to everyone i would still get negged simply because of the non-separation of irc and forum (i.e. separation of church and state ;) ) j/k anyway. the free forum would be good because i could be an active member again without my enemies out there, or rather ppl that think are offended by me, or something to that extent, closing my threads or whatever. anyway good post antihax0r.. if i could give points again, id give you some positives hehehe :P

Hey, I got an idea. I really like this 'free' forum idea, and I understand how 'bad' people would abuse it, so. . .why not make it anonymous? Have the moderator be able to view the posters {so that he can moderate the forum}, but no one else. That way it would truly be a 'free' forum. There would be no reprisal for speaking your point of view, but their would be no reward either. Just that of communicating your idea. So what do you think?

Entropy: Thats a good solution to the problems with the "free forum." but wouldn't it just be easier if you had a controversial post, to sign out, then post it as a guest, rather than give more work to the already busy moderators of AO? (unless of course they're not busy and want more work ;) )

Also, in addition to the "assign towards even" maybe the ppl whose votes are worth say, 8 APs could choose a number to assign up to the total, either positive or negative. That way, they could gauge their response based on the need.
My $0.02...

just an idea to what terr and negative said realy jerks would go and find an unrelated post but it would stop the majority i would think so anyway
rioter

I think I have figuered out why Jp hasn't (and probally never will) created this forum.

1)If he did this then why have an antipoint system at all?The system is more than just a check and balance for the board. It is a cross sectional view of humanity as well. How friendships and alliances form...as well as how rivalries and enemies square off. If I had access to JP's logs I could write a book on socialogy and anthropology as well.

2)The kind of topics that this forum will propagate simply aren't of interest to JP. In fact if you read his post in the "reparation" thread you will see his dislike towards such topics.

3)There is a current workaround as has been pointed out...post it as a guest.

4) A forum without the current antipoint system would be very difficult to moderate.


5) If you don't like it then go create your own board...heh heh right GG?

Great idea antihaxor.

Even I also a worst hit of -points. I have posted my problem in "Crazy XP Spoilt" thread started by Eculid. The problem made me to reinstall XP. After posting my problem, I thought of posting the one in separate thread. I started "Windows XP Hassles" thread in Microsoft Security Discussions forum. I got negs.

I think what i did was not a mistake. I am not against AO rules and I feel bad for this.