Sinse this is the "general" discussion area... here is something for u all to check out...let me know what u think anout the pictures on this site.
www.answering-christianity.com/pali_torture.htm
:2pick:
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Sinse this is the "general" discussion area... here is something for u all to check out...let me know what u think anout the pictures on this site.
www.answering-christianity.com/pali_torture.htm
:2pick:
That's pretty graphic. You should of posted a warning!
They say a picture speaks a thousand words....but....they're also used for propoganda and I have trouble believing any pic's taken in war zones....
many of these photos are obviously edited (being that i edit all the time...) some tell tale marks show me at least some of them are fake. and some of those pictures could have been taken out of context... i don't doubt it happens, but i do not have sufficient proof.
would like to see pictures of what the result of palestinian suicide bombs on a club full of teenagers or perhaps the results of a palestinian gun man on a bat mitzva? it's a two way street bucko.
As stated above, a warning would have been nice. Edited or not I didn't hang around long enough to look.
I fail to see the point in these pictures....as Oblio says, its a two way street...
If these were pics of Indians Following Ghandi and being beaten that would be one thing, but this is something completely different....
Also - Since when did AO become rife with Israel vs. Palestine Threads?
Yes, you are very right....I should have posted a warning and am very sorry if anyone looked and was offended...expecting not to see such things. And, it does go both ways. War is bullshit. I hope that someday we can find alternate solutions to war. Maybe the only way is to have a working world government. There is no doubt that the Isrealis are murdering civilians...men, women, and children.
Lord_darkside_x......u say that some of those photos are obviously edited. Well, please tell me how to tell fakes from real ones. I really want to know. Not just because of this, but because it sounds interesting.
Also, sure the palestinians have some radicals who commit suicide bombings, etc. But, at least it's not an organized government effort like the Israeli jews are doing. Has anyone here ever read the news from other countries online??? Maybe you should try it sometime.
:2pick:
A couple of those pics I saw on the CNN site some time back as being shots from Croatia. Oh well, I am skeptical myself when it comes to anything to raise money as such. Sometimes people like to use war to scam folks. It's sad but true. Myself, I have no political stance. War is bad for anyone involved whether it's justified or not. So I take it all with a grain of salt. Like others have said. Two sides to every story.......
ok .. as for me , i do Believe in these pics. i still have a family lives down there and they for sure tell me the truth.
It's hard to convince anyone that such things are happening. Either they don't want to believe it or they don't care........or maybe just ignorance. Whatever the case may be, thank you for clarifying such. AH ....Haraam77 :2pick:
it's not that i don't believe that it happens... i just question the realness of these pictures. but like others have said... this is a two way street, as sad as it is. it's one of those, who is right kinda deals... people die everyday all over. it is very sad. what a sad world we live in
haraam77, it's not that they don't care or they ignore it ..Quote:
Originally posted here by haraam77
It's hard to convince anyone that such things are happening. Either they don't want to believe it or they don't care........or maybe just ignorance. Whatever the case may be, thank you for clarifying such. AH ....Haraam77 :2pick:
u can find allots of ppl. that they do .. but i think such a thing , if u didn't live it , u wont believe it , why ?
coz' it's so hard for a normal human brain to accept such a truth ..
I've found truth, as it pertains to the middle east, is subjective at best. I could bring just as many "truths" from the other side but basically it's all propaganda.
Ignorance is a problem, but does that mean that anyone is going to stop the violence, No. They've grown to accept the situation, as bad as it is. And if this last personal bomb didn't make a clear enough point, then the next one will. That's a stupid way to try to make a point. It obviously doesn't work so why not try diplomacy.
haraam,
The PLO for years has housed known anti-israel militants and general crazies, they sponsor these groups and they brodcast anti israeli propaghanda to the citizens. They entice people to take up in arms and to attack israeli settlements. Israel is doing what any country would do when being attacked by another government, defending itself in any which way they can. Obviously force has been used in excess as has every conflict between two enemies at war in the history of men. I am not defending the shooting of babies but perhaps if the parents didnt want their children to die, they would take them away from clashes that have known to result in death instead of carrying their babies to the front lines. If these people are so concerned with not getting killed, perhaps they should stop throwing rocks at soldiers that will open fire, and if they dont want to get shot perhaps they shouldnt use their children as shields when brandishing an assault rifle at a soldier.
Now, more than 50 years after WWII, you have
people denying that any atrocities happened.
People believe what they want to believe.
They believe whatever fits in with their own
political inclinations.
No one can force someone else to see the truth.
It's hard enough to get them to sit still long
enough to hear your side of the story.
Even when the facts are clearly documented,
people put a different "spin" on the facts
so they can push their own agenda.
Follow the trial of Slobodon Milosevic.
He swears that everything his people did,
they did it in self defense.
The nazis had the German people convinced
that they were fighting against a ruthless
"international jewish conspiracy", that it
was all in self defense.
You have to WANT to believe the truth.
You have to be WILLING to be taught.
You have to DESIRE to do right.
:cool:
I have to agree with oblio on this one, although, I don't support either side of the current conflict.
I am a little disappointed with the US who for years condemned the harsh military actions undertaken by Israel but now they just slap an "anti terrorist" label on it and everythings fine...
Oblio makes another good point with his "children used as shields" comment. Obviously a war zone is no place for a child but where else have they got to go? The middle east is suffering a refugee crisis at the moment with thousand (more?) fleeing Afghanistan...
Anyway, far greater minds than ours have debated this topic and have failed to find answer....
Very wel said Debris, the Palestinian government hasn't done **** and people wonder why there kids get killed? They are always at the wrong place at the wrong time? BS, they shouldn't be throwing rocks in the first place and avoid places like perhaps say, the front lines?Quote:
Originally posted here by oblio
haraam,
The PLO for years has housed known anti-israel militants and general crazies, they sponsor these groups and they brodcast anti israeli propaghanda to the citizens. They entice people to take up in arms and to attack israeli settlements. Israel is doing what any country would do when being attacked by another government, defending itself in any which way they can. Obviously force has been used in excess as has every conflict between two enemies at war in the history of men. I am not defending the shooting of babies but perhaps if the parents didnt want their children to die, they would take them away from clashes that have known to result in death instead of carrying their babies to the front lines. If these people are so concerned with not getting killed, perhaps they should stop throwing rocks at soldiers that will open fire, and if they dont want to get shot perhaps they shouldnt use their children as shields when brandishing an assault rifle at a soldier.
I am against this war, but this Israel vs Palestina crap has gone too far, even here in Holand Palestinians or other muslims harras Jewish citizens, and when dd the Jews all over Europe do anything? never. They never molested any muslim nor attacked a mosque.
Right now the Rabbi in Holland has to walk over the streets with a body guard because the police cannot guarantee his safety.
I didn't see that happening to any Imam.
i think oblio brings up a point that just strengthens the point many people have tried to make on many many forums. It all depends on what side of the fence you are on. everything in life is relative to one's own situation. the same goes with tragedy and atrocity. no one is more right than the other. it is all point of view and opinion. no one can diffinitively state who is right and who is wrong. i don't think anyone can ever be that unbiased. we can all choose sides, but sadly there is no right side, and even more sadly in war and violence there is no winner.
A discription from metafilter.com:
---------------------
September 16, 2001
For All Those of Us Asking Why A Muslim activist presents "My explanation to the 'Attack' on the US from the Islamic perspective." Note the inverted commas around "Attack" and proceed to his contention that "It is not who did it! It is why it was done that really matters." Then take an industrial dose of anti-emetics and explore the "Jihad" section - including interviews with Osama Bin Laden under the "Heroes of Islam" menu - of the whole "IamMuslim.net" site. This is what we're all up against. Well, almost all of us, anyway.
-----------------
Domain Name: ANSWERING-CHRISTIANITY.COM
Administrative Contact:
Solomon, Sam (SS15345) [email protected]
Sam Solomon
4722 E Bell Road Suite 3083
Phoenix , AZ 85032
602-971-9694
Do you think because the middle east chooses to fight and kill each other that justifies this attack on the US.
as you may have gathered i am not unsympathetic to palistinians. but when somebody hits me, there's no talking till the fights over. only finding their heads in a bag would please me.
in case you havn't noticed, people investigate everthing thats posted. you should do the same if you want to prove a point, because to me this didn't do it.
Neither Al Queda nor the Taliban were recognized governments. I think the US is completely justified in their actions just like the Israeli's are with theirs.Quote:
Also, sure the palestinians have some radicals who commit suicide bombings, etc. But, at least it's not an organized government effort like the Israeli jews are doing.
And it's a much bigger problem then "the palestinians have some radicals". The PLO harbors and supports groups like Hamas Those radicals number in the many thousands.
I know it;s very true that Israel kills many Palestinians. I also think it;s true that they are forced to do so. Peace talks have failed time and time again. Yasser Arrafat refuses to do anything substantial regarding the terror groups that his "country" is home to. They actually praise and make heroes outta the children that they manipulate into thinking that becoming a suicde bomber is a noble career choice.
It's really sad, but these two sets of people have been fighting since the dawn of civilization, they will never stop. I was told that somewhere in the bible it says that when there is peace for them the world will end.
Personally, I beleive that there are two sides to every fight and both sides are equally to blame, I just wish that the everyone realizes that there are "other" struggles and wars going on all over the globe (we just see this one on the news everyday.)
I am tired to death that the blame falls on the United States citizens.
Un saludo.
Obviamente, esas imagenes son crudas y duras, pero desde mi punto de vista son sacadas fuera de contexto.
Habiendo como hay un conflicto Belico donde los perjudicados son los Israelies, este tipo de imagenes no ayuda a nada a contribuir a la lucha por la paz en oriente medio.
Puestos poner imagenes, por que no pones la de los hombres bomba que se deflagran en un pizza hut, asesinando niños tambien, esas fotos son acciones de guerra, son daños colaterales inevitables.
Son los Palestinos los culpables de su situacion.
PD. Sorry If you do not understand spanish, but i guess that if I understood what your post said, certainlyu you wil bee able to understand mine.
Misha Orangenbaum
I like Pizza Hut. :confused:
the taliban seemed to be enough of a recognized government before the bombing...did you know that Dick Chaney and some corporations met with the taliban in august (one month prior to the attacks) in an attempt to "persuade" then that they should allow america to build an oil pipe line through afghanastan. the taliban said no. then september 11th occured.
and did you know. the day after the bombing, when NO planes were allowed to fly, the Bush administration allowed one plane (a saudi private jet) to fly to five cities to pick up 20 bin Laden family members to take them out of the country. The FBI was furious. One week later it also came out that Former president George Bush Sr has gone into business with the bin Laden family and that George W. recieved the money to start his first oil company in the 80's from the bin Laden's? conspiracy runs deep.
Ok Lord only 3 planes flew on Sept. 11 and 12... I know this cause all three eventually came here! None were chartered by the Saudi Gov't all were US Gov't Planes (which still set off the warning buzzers!). So I would be interested in knowing where you got your information?
As for Cheney meeting with the taliban, I wouldn't doubt that...he is a sleazy old man!
it is open to the public... found in the New Yorker on Sept 16th (i believe). it may not have been the 12th... but it was during the grounding period. it flew to 5 unnamed U.S. cities, and picked up 20 members of the bin Laden Family. It then flew to an undisclosed location outside of the U.S. This can also be found in the book "stupid white men" that is out or coming out. i can't recall the author, i'll look him up though. the book is about the whole george w. conspiracies (enron, sept 11th and the like.)
ps.---i blame the U.S. Government, not the citizensQuote:
I am tired to death that the blame falls on the United States citizens.
You believe everything you read, don't you lord_whatever_x.....
Conspiracy theories are great until someone loses an eye.......
no i don't believe everything i read, i am very skeptical... but i definitely don't believe that september 11th was completely a terrorist deal... i am more likely to believe that our government played a huge part and these writings just add to that. i don't know what you believe, but i have no faith in the good ole U S of A. i mean patriotism might be your thing, but for me... i tend to not like to fall for that bullshit.
I refuse to have a battle of wits with a unarmed person.
If you don't like the U.S. then please do everyone and yourself a favor and get the ***** out of my country. Why take advantage of all the U.S. has to offer only to bash it?
first of all... i think you miss understand. I am not bashing the U.S.. I admit that it has plenty of potential and is one of the better places to live, but you can not tell me that there is nothing wrong with it. My point is that there are alot of things that our government does that are not right, that needs to change. i have no faith in leaders who do this sort of thing. if you believe that everything is fine and dandy, maybe you should take you own advice and not believe everything you read.
insulting me is a pretty low form of arguement... why couldn't we have a serious discussion with out pulling out the insults?Quote:
What argument? No misunderstanding.Quote:
Originally posted here by lord_darkside_x
no i don't believe everything i read, i am very skeptical... but i definitely don't believe that september 11th was completely a terrorist deal... i am more likely to believe that our government played a huge part and these writings just add to that. i don't know what you believe, but i have no faith in the good ole U S of A. i mean patriotism might be your thing, but for me... i tend to not like to fall for that bullshit.
I was under the assumption you were bashing the U.S. and patriotism. For all that's wrong in the U.S., it's still by far the best place to live.(IMHO) No where else in this wide world can you find the opportunities that you can find in the U.S.
Remember: Winning an argument online is like winning at the Special Olympics, I mean, your still retarded, right? :D
i didn't say it wasn't one of the best. i just said it needed some work
I want to thank you all for the negative AO points. Tell ya one thing though, I will NOT be silenced with negative points.........lmao. I will always speak my mind and more than likely I will stay in the negative as far as AO points. I think the funniest thing is......when some sorry son of a bitch sends an annonymous message w/some negative points......talks **** and runs like a bitch without telling who it was. I see we have a lot of ignorant little kiddies here at AO. If you want to ****ing flame me, do it where all can see......and where I can see your identity....lol@cowards. But, for the most part.....I find the members here very helpful. I have learned a lot during my short time here at AO. I plan to stay here at AO for a veryyyy long time. This is a great site to learn from. Thanks to those who at least have the balls to flame me in the open. I respect anyones opinion so long as they respect mine. :2pick:
harram77 -
I want to say that this is an issue that needs discussing amoungst Americans...however I think your website choice was in bad taste....
Lord -
Being part of the Gov't, I can say that I don't believe that what you desrcibed happened, but it could have... When you have some evidence I would like to see it... This is not a slame, I am interested in what happened during those weeks...
It didnt happen. Cospiracy theorists waste their brains, imo. This one is kinda funny though. The Taliban wouldnt let the US governtment drill for oil in Afghanistan so the US governtment highjacked 4 planes, killed thousands of people, and ruined our economy.
U know something? The USA that many are proud of doesn't give a **** about anything unless it affect them somehow in a negative manner. Canada (the country that I'm living in) is the biggest follower is everything, and one of the biggest loser in the economic market. Japan is the place for technologies. South Korea is another home/lab for mordern technologies (wow! Just look at their math course). China is one of the military countries, and the government show no care for anything but for themselves. Hong Kong is the worst place to be in now (considering that it is a developed place). Taiwan is the home of stupid polotical ideas (why do they want to be seperated from China instead, do something like what Canada did in history).
Places like that requried protection. Force in, and kill those who are in the way.
WARNING: MATERIALS ARE RATED PG-13.
i didn't say the american government stole and crashed the planes... i say they knew. i also didn't say that that america wanted to drill for oil in afghanastan. they wanted to run a pipeline from uzbekahstan(where Exxon, an american company, own rights to oil) through afghanistan. and i am not saying that any of the "conspiracies" happened, but i like to think about what else could have been...
methcook-why are you so sure that the us government would kill a few thousand people. do you really think they care about the citizens? i don't.
Jim- the only evidence i have is what i have read in a few newspapers (about the plane thing) These were small articles in new york and philadelphia papers. it was carried by the ap, but i don't know if it was in all the papers.
If you could expand that to, say, about 150 pagesQuote:
Originally posted here by Methcook
It didnt happen. Cospiracy theorists waste their brains, imo. This one is kinda funny though. The Taliban wouldnt let the US governtment drill for oil in Afghanistan so the US governtment highjacked 4 planes, killed thousands of people, and ruined our economy.
with a few photos, we could publish a book and
make a little money off this
:cool:
Yeah, that's a good questions actually. To be honest I hate our government and I dont trust them. I hate our laws and I fear our law enforcement agencies. And no, I dont really believe that they genuinely care about the citizens that they supposedly serve and work for.Quote:
-why are you so sure that the us government would kill a few thousand people. do you really think they care about the citizens?
Maybe I;m being naive, and that's not typical of me, but I have to believe that the US Gov had no role to play in what happened on Sept 11th. Do you realize how many people it would have taken to plan and execute that ****? If the feds are responsible eventually people would crack and the truth would begin to surface. Many death sentences would be passed out. That in itself I would think would be more than enough reason for the gov to stay away from mass murder on such a large scale.
The guy who made this answering-christianity website should be thrown out of the country. Can you believe what he writes? besides I bet those pics are his private collection downloaded from rotten.com
I he is is so pro islam and anti USA wel then they should deport him, make em see what a nice stay he'll have in Palestine.
Nothing security related, just my opinion on this sick site, does nothing but promote hate.
And I wil e-mail him about it too.