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I am sure this has been seen before, but I was just kind of amused....
This is the listing of Hacking > Hackers in the Yahoo! Directory at:
http://dir.yahoo.com/Computers_and_I...cking/Hackers/
Gotta love that last name ;)Quote:
Site Listings
Agent Steal (Peterson, Justin) (1)
Cap'n Crunch (Draper, John T.) (2)
Mitnick, Kevin (7)
Phiber Optik (Abene, Mark) (2)
Poulsen, Kevin
Stallman, Richard@
Vranesevich, John (5)
lol
HAHAH!!!!
not that cool, but is kinda funny.
Hey, If you follow the links on JP they don't come up with good news about "our" AO founder...???
Funny stuff. I clicked through this and found this article. It seems like this person doesn't like JP very much.
Note that KuRuPTioN (gotta love the pretentious nick) provides nothing to back up these statements. I haven't seen any of these so-called "controversial stories" written by JP. I was wondering if anyone knows a bit of the history behind this? Care to comment JP.Quote:
The best way to label John is a fake. His writing and editorialized stories on his website AntiOnline.com are not just false and nonfactual, but also lead one to believe that these individuals, these “hackers”, are individuals with no regard for anyone other than themselves. He writes controversial stories where there is no controversy to grab the reader and pull them into his own little delusional world. He manipulates people to make his stories seem more real and then retaliates at his critics insulting their integrity.
Disclaimer:
I don't endorse what KuRuPTioN has said. I'm just curius to know what his problem is.
You are quite slow smirc, everybody knows about attrition, check out www.netflood.net, they are having an interesting poll, check out their interview with the owner of www.antioffline.com too.
obviously a great deal of you are not familiar with anything more than the forum JP provided about half a year ago. This site used to be a news site similar to the former hackernews.com and net-security.org. The only difference really being that JP wrote his own stories as opposed to just writing commentary on stories from other media outlets. I believe (if memory serves me) back during the days when antionline was blue and white and hosted by some shell server, that trouble began with a story involving a hacker from the no|d crew, chame|eon who is now the founder of I believe it is, eeye security. A story about an arabic man named Khalid and his offerings of 'hacking for hire' to chame|eon and jp as well as aleged threats. I believe the end result was the Khalid story was fabricated and some false reportings on chame|eon upset some people. Now where the problems really started was after an attack on the new york times website by a group called hacking for girlies, JP not only had the exclusive story hours before even the new york times, but he had supposed evidence which was then handed over to the DoJ resulting in an FBI raid of Brian Martin (attrition.org) and his roomate se7en. Noone was ever charged and no physical evidence linking brian martin to hfg was ever presented. Through various channels, anger and anecdotes, an allegation was made that JP was under FBI investigation for the attacks and was believed to be hiring hackers so that he could get the exclusive story. At the same time, JP began sleeping with Caroline Meinel, who together created a force of lies so great that just about everyone became enraged. Then came the summer of 2000 raids against Global Hell. Once again Jp always had the exclusive story and this time was feeding information entrusted to him to the fbi. He also labeled many of those arrested as guilty which created a huge disturbance for many of the accused's lives for the media would take JPs reports and report on them. At the same time, a war was brewing between angry Attrition.org and Antionline.com. Attrition made a webpage dedicated to defaming JP. It called him a charlatan and provided well presented evidence of the fact. It also accused JP of libel and many other defamation related charges. JP at the same time began making allegations again about Attrition and handed down harsh labels without so much as an ounce of evidence. The last straw then came which pretty much not only pissed of the underground but everyone involved [cont]
with infosec and opensource. After packetstorm, was forced to change service providers, harvard university decided to host the archive and maintain it. This was a great achievement and legitamized disclosure of vulnerabilities. There was a directory /jp which had jokes, and articles about him. One happened to be a picture of his sister. JP then took it upon himself to call Harvard and threaten them with a lawsuit if they did not remove the content. This ultimately resulted in harvard giving packetstorm the boot and left many angry. I could probably write a book about the crap JP has done, but now i must eat and rejoyce.
speaking about funny stuff: if you go to www.antioffline.com and follow the link to jp.html... ugh: very funny stuff; or how ppl can go very looowwww in flaming others... *sigh*
Interesting read oblio, can anyone confirm it?
Eh, Ac1dsp3ctrum, sorry, but YES, I can confirm the things Oblio wrote, however you can read it all at the sites with ppl against JP...is this information: objectif, neutral ? no way! but however it is sure that JP pissed off a large number of the cracker community... that's obvious if you did look at the number of attacks counted (especially those days)...
I'am visiting this site long before I started posting here at the forum (and before the forum even exist)... and in a certain way I can confirm Oblio's story... his story is an objectif reflection of other subjective thoughts from ppl that are against JP and AntiOnline.
I mean: Oblio gives a good representation for one side of the story. But he does not tell the whole story...
JP's response on the packetstorm thing:
AntiOnline & PacketStorm
First off, let me say that I didn't shut down PacketStorm, and neither did Harvard. Ken Williams is the sole person responsible for that site being shut down. He chose to take a popular forum which was designed to disseminate information related to computer security, and abuse his own creation in order to harass someone. Sure, post satire about myself or my website. I truly don't care, and in many cases, I have even promoted such websites on AntiOnline. One such satire site that I've linked to several times is "AntiOffline.com". Personally, I consider satire as one of the greatest type compliments one can get. However, what Ken did far surpassed simple satire. By posting a photo of my younger sister (who was a minor at the time), along with her full name and address, he successfully started a mass campaign of harassment against her and my family. This I wouldn't tolerate. I don't care how popular of a site it was, or how valuable of a resource it was. It was abused by Ken Williams for his own perverse sense of amusement, at the cost of my family.
As for all of this "threaten to sue" hype which soon followed. I never did any such thing. I'm not sure which University Official ever told Ken Williams that, if any, but he was certainly mistaken. I sent a simple one page e-mail to the provost's office asking them to review the contents of the site against their acceptable use policy. Despite Ken's claims that there wasn't any "offending" material on the site, the university reviewed it, and chose to shut it down. A major and prestigious university like Harvard wouldn't simply shut down a site because some pissant like myself sent them an e-mail, unless there was a very good reason to do so. Use your common sense people.
However, what Ken Williams did was a very successful campaign of pity afterwards. I will admit that. "A poor college student who's website was shut down by an evil corporation called AntiOnline. Who's college career has been ruined, and all of his hard work lost". Truth of the matter is that Ken is in his 30s, and isn't some naive little college freshmen. He got his site shut-down by harassing a 17 year old girl, which shortly after being shutdown, Ken sold for a reported $125,000 to Kroll.
Thanks, VictorKaum, that clears things up.. A little bit :confused:
Who are you going to believe? Oblio or JP...
I think JP's answer makes sense (especially in contradiction with the flames against him)
I want to aplogise for bringing this up in my above thread. It appears as though i've opened a can of worms that I shouldn't have when I should have just shut up. Sorry to all the people who didn't want to go through all this again.
/me feels like a schmuck
k, smirc,
I think I have proven my point: always try to get as many viewpoints you can, before you judge ppl. ;)
victorkaum claiming jp to be more reliable of a source than me lacks any objectivity. If you think of intentions, JP runs a company that is funded by venture capital. He stands to lose a great deal by accusations. I on the other hand, have nothing at stake and am quite indifferent. What I have presented is the whole story as I have witnessed it and have taken apart in.
Oblio,
I think you slightly misunderstood my point... I'am only saying that you have to take in mind all viewpoints. I only gave JP a voice... i can dig up some stories about JP, too, but decency keeps me from doing that... afterall we are enjoying his forum. ;)
So do you get my point Oblio? The thing is every1 around here is free to choose her or his opinion. But it seems fair to me to give every1 envolved (like JP) a voice.
I'am not claiming objectivity either... like you, I gave a part of the story... if ppl are convinced that your part is the whole story... well then it is, for them.
I was not talking about choosing sides I was talking about a method... ;)
There are 2 sides to every story. Most of the anti-jp sites are still up. Most of the sites that defend him have been taken down. I am not positive, but I believe that JP decided it wasn't worth his time to continue defending himself long after the fact. Most of the stuff you read is from years ago. Much of what you read, on both sides is true, but a lot of it is crap. Some of it is also just media hype. You will still see webpage defacements that say something like "screw you Jay Pee", yet these same people are sending messages to JP, giving him the news that they hacked another site.
Also, from EXTREAMLY reliable sources, I can guarantee that some of the things written are false. I will not break down any of the specifics, but I will tell you that not everything you read is true. Besides, even if it was, you notice the last date posted in oblio's post was 2000. The packetstorm thing was around the same time if I remember correctly. Anyway, thats still quite old information.
Thanks oblio, you did a really good job of summing up a crap load of information on the web. Of course there is a lot more about it out there, like the whole so1o/Chris McNab fiasco. Also, I am not positive, but I don't think anyone from gH was convicted as a result of those raids, but I am not sure.
Yep Souleman, I agree with you.
HACK THE PLANET
FREE KEVIN MITNICK...
Oh nevermind, my medicine is wearing off, time for another dose.
yes members of gH were convicted as a direct result of those raids. there were never any pro-jp webpages to begin with. i have been around the block quite a few times and i have been around for quite a long time. i know many people and have witnessed all of JPs actions. If you bothered to notice, i quite carefully refrained from stating that some of the allegations were factually. all i know is from what i witnessed, was involved in, and who i know. perhaps you can rebuttle with what this 'extremely reliable source' claims.
Obilo -
having been around the block a few times myself, I have to say I don't buy most of the crap that goes up slaming JP...
It seems to that Occums Razor is called for... Which is more likely: JP risked jail and multiple law suits to hire hackers and set up GH and Hackers for Girliez or whomever (I don't recall who) or that some script kiddies would lie when someone actually gives the FBI some guidence, and gets a sweet scoop in return?
PS CM? hahahahahahahahahah
people have hired killers in the past for far less reason.
Greetings:
Urgh, this is stupid. I'm going to close what is turning into a flame war with these few thoughts:
#1. I've had Department of Defense Contracts for over 4 years now. You don't get to work on those if you're suspected of being evil.
#2. I've consulted for the FBI, which doesn't have you consult for them, if they think you're evil. As a matter of fact, an FBI spokesperson came out and spoke about my bonifieds in a New York Times Article less than a week after those stupid Attrition-Fed alligations came out. The FBI does't talk nice about you in a New York Times article if they're investigating you.
#3. I've lectured inside of FBI Headquarters in DC 2 times, once for FBI and once for NIPC. They don't let you into FBI Headquarters if they suspect you of being evil.
#3. I've been inside of CIA Headquarters to teach some of my profiling techniques. They don't let you in there if they suspect you of being evil, either.
And oblio... claiming to be "objective"... haha. End of discussion. Thread closed.
There are more important things that these forums can be used for.