New Box

Hello all,
Just curious, I am going to get a new home desktop computer. I know a lot about programming, software, security, etc. but I was looking around for a new box and realized that I do not know that much about hardware. So, I am turning to AO. My Q is this, I work a lot with various languages, c++/c, ASM, some VB, I build and compile programs on my computer, and I also run graphics creation and editing programs. {Not many games at all any more} But anyway, I was wondering, what type of new box should I get? I just got a bonus from work and got some extra cash, so I am looking for pure performance. What are your opinions?

{I am not looking for statistics, testing, and other BS that is all in favor of one brand, I just want how they actually work.}

I'd look for a fast processor w/the most memory you can afford. I would also get a very large HD. I once had a 486DX2 and found the best performace enhancer was doubling the memory (at the time I went 16 megs to 32).

Cheers,
-D

Here is a rundown of a box i'm in the process of building. Its for pure performance.

Asus P4S333 Motherboard

Pentium 4 478 pin chip (your choice)

1 gig DDR-333 (pc2700) ram

An AGP nVidia GeForce 4 TI graphics board (will be available sometime march or april)

Any ATX form factor mid-full tower w/ 300-watt power supply even though w/ asus boards you don't need it.

This would be the barebones of the system.

Add a Hard drive, 3.5 IN drive, CD-RW drive, DVD-ROM, Sound card (i'm getting a 5.1 channel ;)), keyboard, mouse, modem, etc...

And of course your favorite OS.

Lemme know if I forgot anything

x ;)

For programming, 700mhz is plenty, for graphics I would get the following:
Athlon XP 1500 or greater
512MB memory (DDR Prefferably)
Geforce 3 or ATI Radeon 8500 (All in wonder if possible) ...

How much are you looking to spend?

Like I said before army, $ is not a prob right now for me. As long as its less than 5 G.

But, I was looking to buy a gateway premade, p4 2.2 Ghz L2 cache 512k, 2048 Mb RDRam Pc800, { Then using my monitor I got now, and not buying DVD burner, or CD burner } Should be about 3G. Anyone want to comment on this idea?

I would build it myself. I wouldn't buy from the big makers. Sorry. You can learn to put a decent computer together in a night.....

Korp,
How would you build it? What would you put in it? Please explain. . .

Well I'd go down to my local computer store and hand pick all the parts.

It's your choice, If you like AMD pick an XP processor. Intel I don't like because they are more brute force. They waste CPU cycles.

DDR RAM is a must ,probably 512/1G for you. Pick a case you like, make sure it has plenty of power for all your HDDs and DVD writer...

Before I really get into it , do you know how to insert cards into a comp? Have you ever worked on a comp before?

Yes I have worked on a computer before,
I am a sysadmin for a small business, I have installed several networking cards, on my own comp I have installed a 5.1 surround sound card, a geforce graphics accelerator, etc etc. I do know enough, I just do not really know that much about the new processors, the RDRam, and all of that other stuff. I know how to use what I have really well, and how to install it physically and through software. So yes, I have worked on a comp before, please do not hold out on info for fear of not knowing, I would rather know and not understand before I am witheld and do not have the chance to understand. Okay, get it?

Well then it all comes down to cost. Get out your lil' pad of paper and do the math. Try to get a nice, solid mainboard. I'd recommend Iwill, Tyan, Asus. those are good.

What more would like to know?

If you were me, what would you get? Exactly please. So I do not make newbie mistakes and look dumb. :)

Quote:

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As long as its less than 5 G.

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Well, I think you can get a Sun Blade for about a grand. Get like 4 and put some distributed computing softwear on em.
Probably get a Low end SGI for that price.

Guess it depends on what OS you wanna run. If I had an extra 5G's sitting around, I wouldn't be buying a WinTel machine. I would go for a Sun/Solaris, SGI/Irix, HP/HpUX type box.

Quote:

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I was looking to buy a gateway premade

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fyi...gateway's been having some big money problems....something to consider if service and support are an issue...

or...

run *.nix on a pIII with 256m ram....which you can probably pick up used for about 500 bucks...take the rest of the money and spend a week drunk and full on the beach somewhere... :D

I'm in the process of building a performance system at the moment (mainly for fast games play, but also for general use & internet stuff).
I am probably (nothing's definite yet, I'm still collecting the money together) going to get:
AMD Athlon XP 1.8GHz or above
512MB RAM (initially, possibly expand to 1GB later)
32/64MB graphics card (possibly an ATI Radeon, or failing that a Creative GeForce3)
5.1 Sound card
10/100 Net Card
56k Modem (v90, internal, hardware modem, not a Winmodem)
40GB hard drive
DVD-ROM drive (LG or Creative)
CD Rom drive (Creative)
CD-RW drive (LG or Creative)
MS IntelliMouse Optical
Keyboard (Probably a Compaq keyboard, they're so quiet!!!)
I'll install Windows 98 onto it (has to be 98 for best games play compatibility)

I agree with Korp Itll be better to build one yourself and you will find it alot cheaper too. I have heard to stay away from pentiums and sdram guess there not as good as they are made out to be. But if you are going for a company computer check out dell I think they are best in getting your $$$ worth in my opinion. Good luck

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention the sound card make... Creative.
I'm not going to try to influence you as to brands etc, but Creative stuff is built to last.
I've had a computer for 7 years with a Creative CD-ROM, SB16 sound card, and a creative graphics card. All 3 still work in perfect condition, as the day they were bought, whereas a CD-ROM in a newer machine (it was an unnamed device, didn't appear to be made by anyone, it was just a CD drive, didn't have a manufacturer name at all!) died within 6 months of purchase...

I would recommend that you build it your self. Don't let all those circuit boards and wire intimidate you. Once you start working with hardware you realize that it’s a piece of cake compared to programming.

Yo Ghost_25inf there is nothing wrong with sdram, it works better thanany other type of ram its just that sometimes the improved performance does not justify the cost.

The3ntropy you should go for ddrram(double data rate) cause it has twice the bandwidth of any other type of ram and seeing as how money is no problem.
Also for programming the most important piece of equipment is the monitor (cause you're going to spend so much time looking at it). You said you are going to use your old monitor but unless it is a very good one I'd advise you to invest in a flatscreen crt monitor, if you have money burn that is. I got my hands on one of these a few weeks ago and I still can't believe the improvement.

P.s. I'm just after building a kick ass machine for 3500 euro. I've got the entire specs written down somewhere and I'll post them when I dig them up.

I agree with building it yourself. I stay away from pre-built machines like the plague. It is a piece of cake compared to programming with ASM. :D

It looks like most of the other people have given you some good hardware recommendations. But you can check out http://www.tomshardware.com and http://www.extremetech.com to get stats on indivdual pieces. If you don't mind mail-order go to http://www.pricewatch.com to get the best prices. Perhaps you have quite a bit of money to spend, but don't spend it needlessly on components that you can get cheaper :)

you should be writing programs on a mach thats similer to the machines your programs will be running on....no?

I figured I would write a few things about Intel to help you decide which mainboard and cpu to get.

I would honestly go with an Intel P4 Processor. Just make sure you get the 478 pin P4 cpu that has the new Northwood design.

I now alot of people say that AMD is better than Intel and I used to think the same way. But from the reviews I've read and the benchmarks tests I've seen, (and thats alot) Intel finnaly got it right with their new Northwood design.

As far as the ram to use: If your going to use basic sdram, then don't buy a p4, go with AMD.
Your not going to be able to truly unlock the power of the P4 unless you use either RDRam (very expensive and not manufactured very much), Or use the latest DDR-333 Ram (Double Data Rate 333megahertz). These two types of ram have the bandwitdth to unlock the true power of the p4. SDram simply doesn't have what it takes. The DDR-333 Ram on a board is available with SiS's 645DX chipset. (But chipsets are another story)

Okay.. Now for the Motherboards.

As far as motherboards go I would suggest looking at ASUS boards.

http://usa.asus.com/mb/mbindex.htm

They have been around for a while and got some of the best reviews. They are especially nice if your going to use a P4 cpu. The P4's need alot more power than other chip and require a 300-watt power supply to run them. Although the Asus people got around this really nicely. They have a connection on their P4 boards that allow you to simply connect a drive power cable to it for the extra power. Therefore you don't need to buy a new power supply. ;)

I see a tut coming... Maybe in a few weeks...

Anyway... As for the AMD side of things...

If your an avid AMD person, (of which there are so many), Then I would go with the new Atlon XP 2100+, It has an actual clock speed of about 1733 MHz, but AMD has a chip design (Palomino core) that actually can out perform a P4 2200MHz with basic tasks. But when it came to Office apps and high end game play, P4 took over. For a board of this type find one that uses the VIA KT333 chipset. This again supports the DDR-333 Ram.

Well let me know if you have anymore questions.

x

My input would be to STAY AWAY from Gateway. I had a Gateway for about 8 months, and the compatibility issues I had were ridiculous, everything from peripherals, to hardware, to software. I bought an Epson printer to go with the computer, and it took me over a month to get it installed, because the drivers were incompatible with the computer, and nothing ever worked like it was supposed to. By the way the printer was also purchased from Gateway, specifically because it was supposed to be compatible....ha. So I would definitely build my own if I had the money to do so...It make take some work and a little frustration and trial and error, but it would definitely be worth it in the long run....

Thank You All for all of the help,
I am currently off to build my dream pc, for now anyway. Once I get it completed I will post the specs up here. And as for giveing out some green, my points do not count for anything, if you want them to, I have to get some more points first myself, otherwise I would green everything here. But anyway, my dream box is coming up soon! Tell all of you when I get it. C-ya.

I have a remark, everyone here seems to suggest a system that will give great performance especially in games and etc... but I believe The3ntropy is looking for a good stable platform to built applications? If I had the money to spend, my first choice in this situation would be a workstation with Intel 860 Chipset and 2.2 Ghz Xenon processor(s), 2 GB ECC RD RAM PC800, 2 x 36 GB 10k RPM SCSI U-160/M HDD, Matrox Millenium G550 Video Card (or if you like gaming the Geforce 4 Ti or the Geforce 3 Ti 500)... I can assure you: such a box beats all the configs above mentioned.
I think it would cost about 5G,
If you have some money left, get the ultime developper video card "3Dlabs Wildcat II 6110 128 MB AGP PRO 110 4X (this card cost as much as a normal PC system)

It all depends on your needs if you want a gaming / multimedia box go with the setup KorpDeath and xmadness suggest, if you want to create 3D apps / professional multimedia / mathematic apps / ... then you need a stable, fast, reliable workstation, it will cost you a lot but it will be powerfull. Dell and IBM offer very good intel based workstation systems. However if you do not choose a workstation class box... built one yourself. I'am building systems since I was 7 years old and none of them has ever let me down. You need to select the right parts together to get max stability, speed, and price/quality.

check AlienWare. Their machines are built for gaming but they pack one hell of a punch. These things are powerful.

PS. Like my new Avatar?

-krakpype

My computer is nice and stable... It works fine all around...

P3 800 MHz
896 MB RAM (128 - 256 is enough...)
GeForce 3 TI-200 Video Card
24x6x4 CD-RW Drive

You may not need that much RAM, but my PC works fine in anything... It cost a lot though..., I custom put it together, case and everything... Well, hope you find your dream PC, good luck to you, The3ntropy.....

-Tim_axe

my computer is;

1.8Ghz Athlon AMD
Thunderbird Motherboard (thunderboard)
Audigy Sound System (platinum e)
Via 64Mb vidoe Card
40Gb Hard drive (dont go over 40 as it slows down sys performance)
256Mb DRRam

Build your system from the ground up, as others have suggested...I'm so tired of 'preloaded' systems I could just puke. What you may pay extra in parts and time, you'll make up for in increased reliability. And don't forget about the OS...don't use one (cough...cough) that eats up your resources...
And, as an afterthought, don't be wary of putting in an extra SCSI HDD just for file storage, thus keeping your "main" HDD available for active projects...

Ouroboros

I have to agree with building your own system, but the first one can be intimidating. I've seen some really disasterous results with improperly seated motherboards, fans put on backwards etc etc. So...my suggestion is yes, build it yourself but find someone to help you. I've had clients have me put together a "bare bones" box for them, I'll seat mobo, ram, cpu and fan for them and they'll drop in everything else. The end result is they have their own signature box and it's still cheaper than buying a Gateway. (which I would rather fight a pack of rabid weasels than buy even their "highest" end system. CS issues like you wouldn't believe lately!)

Oh..small sound card suggestion..check out the Hercules Game Theatre XP, fantastic SoundBlaster alternative.

Have fun!

TC

I myself would go with one from www.ailenware.com, they make some nice machines.
You can also pick what you want. Low budget people shouldn't buy though.

You might also want to look at dual processors rather than just one.

After looking at prices online, and reading processor and motherboard reviews, I've decided not to go for an AMD Athlon XP. There are 2 reasons for this:

[1] The Intel Pentium 4 is cheaper than the Athlon XP
[2] It outperforms the Athlon XP in about 90% of the tests that I've read reviews on!!!

I've chosen a nice 64MB Creative graphics card and the Creative SB Live Plater 5.1 for a sound card. The motherboad I'm going for has onboard sound, but I'm gonna get the sound card anyway - Pure Performance.

Heh, the motherboard I'm going for has support for 3GB of RAM. Sweet!!!