affirmitive action right or wrong? or both?

I feel that affirmitive action is wrong and has no place here in the US (I have no idea if it exists in other countries or even if ppl from other countries know what it is). Let me give you a scenario which basically says my philosophy on this topic. And Just for the record I am of Caucasion background.... Let's say I apply to a college and my score on my SATs was say (I have no idea what is good and what isn't....)1400, I got mostly Bs and Cs in my classes. Another person (black) applies to the same college, and there is only one slot left (either me or him/her) this person got a 1000 on his/her SATs, and got Cs and Ds in most of his/her classes, but the college needs one more black person in their skewl to meet the state requirements...
Should this person get the spot at this college? I say HELL NO!!!
I worked hard for my 1400 and Bs and Cs I got in my courses (not saying the other person didn't work hard for his/her grades, though)...that person shouldn't get the spot just because of his/her skin color (this is reverse discrimination)....as my principal in HS says EVERY SINGLE day, "With something to think about, this is Mr. Baker...make it a great day or not-the choice is yours...."
I would like to read your opinions on this........

this is not reverse discrimination. its flat out discrimination.

during the 60's and early 70's there was rightfully, a push to get the black people and other minorities integrated into socity. this has happened and it should be equal oppertunity for ALL once again.

In the past, in my area, latin american's felt discriminated against as far as height requirerment for the police force. they felt there should be latin american police officers in latin american neighborhood. they were right, height standards were brought down to accomodate. after a generation living here their are some pretty big latin americans. maybe we should make our cops big again.

when your born poor in a north eastern city (and probably every where else) nobody wants to cut you a break. i was poor, so i moved to houston, which was a boom town at the time and started to get ahead. My girl friend, didn't want to wait for thing to get 'good' and came down to live with me. It came to a point where we didn't have enought to eat, so i swallowed my pride and went down to apply for family assistance (food stamps). she came with me.

when i got there they told me i probably would be turned down, because i was white, and she should apply becase she'd have no trouble getting it being latin american. she did, and we took their help for about four months, until i was making enough mony to support us both. but if she were white we could both develope malnutrition and no one would care?

i believe its time to set the scales back to a balance.

I think we should go on the person's qualifications and let it go at that. We need to be making more of an effort to educate and help everyone. I think the only solution to racial discrimination is to see other people the way God sees them. He put us all here for a reason. We need to learn to get along together. I think (even for Christians) racial discrimination will always be a temptation. It's always easy to mistrust people you don't know or don't understand. But it's not an insurmountable barrier (if) we want to deal with it.

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Originally posted here by Tedob1
this is not reverse discrimination. its flat out discrimination.

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Many people do call this reverse discrimination due to the fact that the person being discriminated against isn't usually discriminated against....

There is a major flaw in the whole affirmitive action logic that I was thinking about last night before I went to sleep...the logic of it is to give minorities a chance agaisnt the majority-right? Well the flaw I thought up last night is that there will ALWAYS be minorities and only one majority. One race will ALWAYS be dominant over all of the others...
/me inserts his 2 cents

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Many people do call this reverse discrimination due to the fact that the person being discriminated against isn't usually discriminated against....
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Your right. now let me ask you, in 2002 who is the person thats usually discriminated against racially?


i dont think there will always be minorities. just about every ethnic and national group there is has already been integrated into our socity, it like 'preach' said, people don't trust what they dont know. there's not that much left to know. there may always be forigners but they wont be dtrange to us and some may find their ignoance of our ways hard to live with, but many find this stimulating. i know i do.

i love living in a place where i can get any kind of 'real' ethnic food and visit shops from around the world. whatever i happen to be in the mood for. jamacian, italian, japanesse, hungarian, arabic, polish, indian ...without leaving town

all great socities have been built where nationalites intermingle. our will be the greatest ever.

just, please put the white kids back in the loop.

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Originally posted here by Tedob1
[Bi dont think there will always be minorities. just about every ethnic and national group there is has already been integrated into our socity, it like 'preach' said, people don't trust what they dont know. there's not that much left to know. there may always be forigners but they wont be dtrange to us and some may find their ignoance of our ways hard to live with, but many find this stimulating. i know i do.[/B]

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Here's a quick post-I think as long as there are more than one different skin colored human beings, there will always be a minority (when I say minority, I mean in a sense that one race outnumbers the other race).

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[i]i love living in a place where i can get any kind of 'real' ethnic food and visit shops from around the world. whatever i happen to be in the mood for. jamacian, italian, japanesse, hungarian, arabic, polish, indian ...without leaving town [/B]

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I would like to do this, but I don't get to travel much being still in HS :P I've never been out of the country either :P
that will change once I graduate, though-gotta go...
hope to type some more maybe later today

Aha Affirmitive action: well I'm only for affirmitive action when it goes between two completly equal candidates in competences (Otherwise achievements have to count.) The prob with the equal persons is that no one has equal competences as some1 else when it comes to higher positions like Phd and etc...

My basic prob with affirmitive action is the following:
the ppl who got in that way, have the risk to be stigmatized. It's possible that white ppl look at black an think they only got the place cause they are black. That would mean that they are some sort of second rank civilians or students. That's highly humiliating.

the same goes for girls with brains ;)
When a very beautyfull girl get a nice position, everyone thinks she got it based on her looks, but perhaps she worked really hard and / or is really smart to come so far.

So my basic point is: affirmitive action is only legitimate on very short term base. To introduce ppl. They can be some example for others to follow. For instance if girls never reached that position before. But after these examples, fair distribution must be achieved. All positions have to be fairly open for everyone. (See Rawls the two principles in "A Theory of Justice", 1972, p.60 and p.302-303) Very funny is that many American ppl supporting affirmitive action base their arguments on Rawls. But I believe they are wrong and need to re-read Rawls. Affirmitive action is not only in contradiction with point 2b from Rawls but also with point 1a.

So affirmitive action on long term is not only discriminating for the one that cannot profit from it, but also for the one that has profit. Do you want to obtain a position when you know you only got it cause you were black or a girl or... I would be ashamed. This is different when the group you belong to was very discriminated by the other group(s) in the recent past, then I would be proud to achieve such a position. But like I said before that's only a short time solution. A better solution would be to do something to the base... I mean if you coach the minority groups to try to get such a positions there would be less problems. If a girl and a guy both have A's, you can easily choose the girl if girls are minority group. But if girls always have B's and guys A's then I think it would be unfair to give girls profit.

i agree with tedob on this one. affirmative action was good when it had's it place, bbut now is unnecessary. esp since it went from race to race and gender and in some instances sexual orientation. i think none of these things should even be a factor in getting a job. as for the number of foriegners in america... tedob, i do somewhat agree with you, but the doors in america need to get shut or made smaller. i am all for having people come here. but first of all, these peopel should have some working knowledge of english if they intend to live here. i wouldn't go moving to germany if i couldn't speak german... second, america is becoming over populated. there is already a problem with employment and so on. the more people we let in the worse it gets. homeless rates will continue to rise. third... it appears that there needs to be a better screening process. cause the wtc attack that killed thousands was perpatrated by people that were in our country with green cards. it was an inside job... now that is a problem. i am not saying close the borders completely. i just think less people should be allowed in. we've got too many already.

It's wrong and Tedob is right. :thumbsup:

There is no room in reality for this crap.

VictorKaum!!! Hey man! Been a while since we had a good conversation together!
Anyway, I can't say I completely agree with you on that one, but I can see your reasoning there, and it make since :P

Tedob1 - bravo for a post (and part of your life) that must have been hard to do.

I agree. It's over, AA can ppl grow up now. Yeah to racial harmony, boo to quotas.

More on Quotas etc

quotas cause division among people.