Computers degrade human mentality

Some people believe that since the introduction of computers, the human race has lost many of it's learnt abilities...

Abilities like math (basic or advanced) and languages (spelling, grammar, pronounciation)...

Apparently, the language skills have deminished due to abbreviations and quick responses, not to mention that programs like WordPerfect and Word use spell check, grammar check and even punctuation checkers.

Also, because of the introduction of calculators in the classrooms, children cannot due simple multiplications and divisions on their own....

My question is, do you believe that we are losing our "touch"? Have we allowed the computers to think for us?

(BTW I am aware that we are all computer addicts, so think in a unbiased way :))

Probably all of those are valid criticisms. But then again, I feel that I've have been stretching myself and growing intellectually by learning about computers and technology. By the way, I've also heard before that many children can't tell time on a regular clock because they've gotten so used to digital readouts. Do you think that is true?

depends on the teachers. If your english teach makes you do a lot of written work in class (such as mine (dang FCAT)), and enforce grammar and spelling, language will not be "lost", though if the teachers don't, it is quite likely. Same goes for math: if the teacher makes you work without a calculator (again, my Algebra II teacher), you will develop mathematical skills, if not, you won't.

Of course, there are those (again, me) who would make themselves learn to do this all anyway, and there are others who wouldn't no matter what.

In truth, it depends on your attitude and your teachers. Support learning and independence from machines, and you will have it; don't, and you won't.

SIDENOTES:
Computers have actually made language even more difficult, as now there are many more common terms children have to know in order to get along in this world.

Computers have also advanced mathematics in many ways. There likely would not even be a mathematical structure called a function if computers had not come around.

That's the view I sport too...

Computers have given us the ability to save time from doing the little math problems so that we can focus on bigger problems (calculus anyone)

Also, because of computers and programming, I found that I do more math on my own then I did when I was in high school....

On top of that, because of this site and developing others, I found that I have actually improved my vocabulary. Reading all those "learn xxx in 24hrs/21days/xxx" has really thought me much.

Interesting thought, not meant as criticism: take a careful look at your posts in this thread, and you'll likely find an error or two. I myself have already noticed one in my original post and edited it out. Interesting since we are seemingly defending the pro-computer side (not unexpected).

The only thing that's suffered for me are my social skills....or lack there of.


I spend so much time alone and online that I actually forget how to interact with people.

I think computers with the addition of the internet has made me a smarter person. I find lots of information about computers and internet security (e.g. from antionline), culture from other countries, food, art, and more. Of course I make sure the sources are valid with careful judgment (can't believe everything out there). I feel much more informed with my computer and my cable connection. Without my computer, I'd go insane. It's like doing a physics problem without a calculator or building a porch without a tape ruler. Computers, to me, are a wonderful tool. It's just one of those things you gotta have.

I'll have to play devil's advocate here. I'm sure thousands of years ago when the abacus and the sundial were created, people became too dependent on them as well. Human ignorance is inherent and should not be blamed on increasing technology.

Having recieved my associates degree I must disagree. In college they teach you how to do everything the old school way, with a pen and a piece of paper. In all my math classes I have had to learn how to do all calculations by hand. Once I get the credit for having learned how to do a function, they allow you to use a calculator from then on. I think computers have allowed society to expand. How many students would become engineers if they had to do every single calculation by hand on paper with no calculator. You would need an entire semester just to take one calc III w/ physics exam.

The same goes for writing papers in english classes in college. Most of the real grade determining papers are on the spot essays that have to be written in class. You don't have the luxury of having a grammer check or a spelling check. The one thing they do allow you to use is a dictionary, and thats only if the professor allows it. Also, most of the research papers that are written require you to use many sources, including books. They will mark you off if all you use are computer and internet sources. For one paper I actually had to interview someone and include that as a source.

So in closing:

I believe that computers in general are a great learning tool. I have learned almost everything I know through research via the net. Although by no means do they replace the actual learning process. If anything, they reinforce it.

you really have to think of a computer as a tool just as everything around us in civilization has been created to simplify our lives, i think its a great thing. if i want to light a cigarette i whip out my lighter i dont have the skills of primitive man to go and rub to sticks together to start up a fire, but as far as the basic skills like math and grammar that is just essencial and i agree with you that i think those skills are going down in school because education is become more 'specialized and focused' as is every field today, and less attention is being placed on things like algebra geometry and such because you can opt to take 'advanced tumbling'.

Math and grammar is doing down, but I've noticed it only or mostly in America. I've visited my cousins in Germany, and their calculation skills are exceptional. Their grammar isn't so bad either. They speak and write at least four languages fluently. This isn't about "loving" the computer too much. It's a matter of lifestlye. Are the students here interested in education and knowledge or are they more interested in themselves? Maybe it's because of America emphasizes too much on uniqueness and individuality that many have become closed-minded and too proud to learn. I'll stop there with my philosophy and reasoning. I yap too much sometimes.

I think the fact that we are all here discussing this just proves that things really aren't that bad. How can we say that computers are degrading human mentality when they are our own creations, we have to tell them what to do and how to do it in the first place, to quote Aphextwin

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Originally posted here by AphexTwin
if i want to light a cigarette i whip out my lighter i dont have the skills of primitive man to go and rub to sticks together to start up a fire.

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By the logic of those who criticize computers for the dumbing down of america, do lighters then degrade human mentality? Fire is essential to our everyday life, yet not many people today can start them without some form of lighter or matches. Does this mean that we are growing unfit to use inventions that utilize internal combustion? Now as far as grammar go's is not the ultimate goal of having a writing system to enable us to communicate with others? When I say BRB you all know that I am saying Be Right Back if that is understood as a standard then what does it matter wether or not it is grammatically correct. I would think that many people would agree that outdated rules hold no purpose but to restrict societies movement forward, and so to everyone out there that complains that our children can't even do simple math anymore I say this, when you give up your automobile, I'll give up my calculator.

I think much of the criticism on computers is the same criticism on tv or radio 50 or 80 years ago. The fact that people cant count anymore can hardly be blamed on computers but on bad teachers that allow calculators too early.

In Sweden we have a much debated problem about younger people writing words appart. In swedish, if a two words are pronounced as one, they are written as one too but with all the english, due to cable tv and the internet people tend to write apart. This at times, causes much confusion.

Anyway. I'd say computers are a good thing, no matter how you put it and that the ignorance or stupidity of people can't be blamed on computers.

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Computers have given us the ability to save time from doing the little math problems so that we can focus on bigger problems (calculus anyone)

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When I was in school I went all the way through AP Calculus. I got lost somewhere around pre-trig and cal....only thing I learned after that was which buttons to press in which order on a scientific graphing calculator (required for class by the way). I got an A- in class and learned nothing...lol

That aside I would have to say that computers are an incredible and useful tool. Students can easily get deeper into research projects (access more info), and think about the young age of many computer suaves....smart kids ;)

Yes general society will slowly use skills that the computer can do for us. It's nothing new. How many people here can churn butter or sew their own clothes? It's not like the computer is different than any other invention in that way.

I personally only use a computer as a tool. I always try to make sure my grammer and spelling are correct. And i even do maths in my head (well try to do so)
Computers (especially programming) requires a user to know even more maths.

So computers are good but it's the users that are bad

It seems people are under the impression that I am against computers....

I am totally FOR computers.... I just wanted to know what people thought of the subject
(which most of you have done)

For my police testing, I had to do multiples tests, involving math, languages and social skills....

It is true that some cultures are different then others, like how Germany is more disciplined in the scholars....

Computers are a tool, but they have also made it where we have lost some of our skills....

It's true that every new technology has an effect on us....

no we do not turn our own butter, or cook or own bread, hell some people don't even cook anymore.... (microwave food anyone?)

But some people still try to remain with "old school" ways.....

It all depends on how someone allows the abuse of technology effect them....

But think about it? aren't we following the same path that has been layed out by films like Matrix and 1984? We are getting dependant on computers and once computers get an AI, will we be *****ed?

I agree in some ways that computers degrade humanity but I disagree in another. Sure people spend more time on computers then going with friends and such, and with spell checks and grammar checks people no longer have to think about how they are writing a word or a sentence.

On the other hand however computers have opened up a hole new dimension of thinking and has greatly helped the evolution of man. Without computers man would not be thinking about complex algorithims, or complicated physics. Nor would we be able to advance science very far.

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We are getting dependant on computers and once computers get an AI, will we be *****ed?

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This is just my personal opinion, but, I don't believe it's possible to create "AI" in the way that people generally think of it. No system can produce a result that isn't programmed into it directly or indirectly, not even a human being. Sure someday we may be able to create a computer that is as complicated as the human mind, but if we could why would we make it as self serving as a human being? and if we did, why would we put any dependance on that machine? It would be like depending on another person for everything, you might be ok, but you might be completely screwed.

I know this is a little bit off topic but I want to ask what is ap calculus? Some sort of homeworks you do on highschool or something like algebra or what? Could anyone explain?

I can associate with this. It's not that I haven't forgotten how to interact, I just couldn't give a feck. :)
But about the computers making you stupid thing. If anything, I find computers improve my use of the English language.

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Originally posted here by Conf1rm3d_K1ll
The only thing that's suffered for me are my social skills....or lack there of.


I spend so much time alone and online that I actually forget how to interact with people.

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AP calc. is a very advanced math course you take in your senior year of American High School. If you pass the class and pass the Standardized test afterward, you get college credit. AP (advanced Placement) allowed me to finish in three years!!!!

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Originally posted here by jcmcb
AP calc. is a very advanced math course you take in your senior year of American High School. If you pass the class and pass the Standardized test afterward, you get college credit. AP (advanced Placement) allowed me to finish in three years!!!!

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I really thank you for your information.. if I could have one more question - what kind of math do you do in AP calc? - algebra, math analysys (derivation, integration), statistics or what? Thanx in advance:)

people who can use their brain do use their brain. the rest have computers to help them threw the day. increasing the complexity of the task they can perform.
while the number of people who do math manually has decreased drastically
algorithmic thinkers has increased even more drastically. IMO computer are increasing the intelligence of the human race.

Okay, now here's another point that I ponder....

SO far I agree with everyone.... I myself will stand loyal to my computer and defend it from all insults and accusations against it....

But... what about penmanship? Because we all get used to typing on a computer and writing notes in class at warp 2 (to catch all the things the teacher sais) would you not thing that the legibility of our handwritting might have suffered?

The last time I wrote in cursive was when I learnt it, now I write in simple hand to make it legible for people....

I do understand that some proffesions like doctors and lawyers are "expected" to have horrible handwriting and John Handcocks but have we lost our ability to write?

Now here's another point to ponder, if our handwritting has suffered, would the Palm be the answer? You have to use the stylus to do almost everything on that item, and if the Palm doesn't recognize what you wrote, it "assumes" something, causing you to pay more attention to how proper you write....

What do you think?

Well said Tyger_Claw. I for one know that I do not write in script anymore except to sign my name on stuff. Just because I can't write in script is infact unreadable [except for 2 people that I have met in my entire life]. And as for the palm aspect. Yep using a the stylus is in fact forcing me to pay more attention to what I write. Even in the note pad were you can scribble in script or in print I find that i have to be carefull how I write it.

A perfect example!

Computers haf just made us lazy

HAHA Tyger_Claw. Ya, I totally screwed up the sentence structure in my last post. But I'm still for computers!!!

I wouldn't say that computers made us lazy, just a little dependant on their functions.

I have noticed in a lot of people that doing something like basic math requires a calculator. How bad is it when you play cards and have to tabulate scores, and the score keeper needs a calculator to calculate things like 26 + 14?

Fact of the matter I don't that it's the sole fault of technology that the basic skills that were once taken for granted are becoming something of a lost art. This would primarily seem to be a trait that is more and more evident with a group of people that has become complacent. I spend a great deal of time with my nose rooted deep in some book, I fear that this is because I don't really want to see what most of the masses that I am surrounded by are doing.
Technology, computers in this particular instance help to perpetuate a loop that has been moving along since the renaissance, our age of discovery and science. We all, myself included, like the idea of what our gadgets can do for us because they can enhance our learning curve.
It is hard to speculate as to what our alternate history without the massive strides that have been made, but I feel pretty confident in the belief that as changes come to us, we tend to fear that we are losing what was felt in the past. Progression is normal. Fear of a lost heritage is also normal. What is seen throughout the ages though, is that as we start advancing as a whole, our trends will rise and fall. That is to say, we will seem to lose touch with some of the fundamentals that have made us and everything we have, but there will again be a renaissance, a new age of re-learning.

In reference to the card and calculator question, that's pretty bad. It's one thing to use something as a labor saving device. But I think you need to know how to do the labor without the tool if you have to.

Exactly Preacherman!
Like you said, it's one thing to use a calculator to save time in work and stuff, but to use it to do VERY simple math is ridiculous!

Chefer, what you described, "reading books" is something else that is a loosing art.....
With television, movies and videogames, many people (myself included) have no interest in reading books.... I myslef has been trying to read more books.....

Of course, computers can help educate you also. There are vast amounts of educational resources available that you access with a computer. You can learn German on line. I'm sure there are sites where you can learn math, learn to appreciate art. I guess computers are like any other tool. They have good points and bad.

I mention reading books only in passing, not as a focus. The difficulty I am suffering here is that we are a group that is highly complacent as a whole. We are very happy to let something else do all the work. Unfortunately that is the reason that slavery was so popular, and why we domesticate animals. What I see more commonly than not is that people are happiest when they have someone, or something else, doing a majority of their thinking for them. I know none of you as individuals, and as such I am not well positioned to speak of the habits of any one here aside from myself. However, I am still compelled to believe that on average, people are lazy. We, myself included, will do what ever we can to simplify things, and alleviate workloads of any nature, physical or mental.
The heartening portion of this is that We can see that history will repeat itself. The scales will not all dissimilar from the view points of those in the past. I look merrilly toward the idea that we as a people will feel some fashion of enlightenment, and will actually want to become more involved in every step of the process, from the fundamentals, to the completion of a project. It seems likely that a renaissance will arise.

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...do you believe that we are losing our "touch"? Have we allowed the computers to think for us?

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No, computers don't think for us. We think for them and I don't think that we're losing our "touch". These technological advancements in IT, science, etc., would not be possible if we lost our touch. I'm sure most people know how to add, subtract, and do basic math as well as read, write, spell, etc. All things are simplified by computers.. spell checkers, thesarus, calculator, etc.. they're just tools and they're not replacing the ability for us to think for ourselves. Erm.. well, I hope not.

Remote_Access_

Ah ha! Even the mighty Remote_Access_ has doubt! :D *joke*

It is true that computers can be the great learning tool of today.... taking on what Preacherman said, finding things online to aid us in learning like math, well www.math.com is a great site for that...

We do think for the computer because we are the ones who program the computer....
The computer is the dumbest thing on earth, it does nothing unless a command is given to it.

It a question of how you use technology and how well you educate yourself....

But now here's a question that came to mind after reading Remote_Access_'s post....

If we program computers to make them "think".... then does that mean the programmers are thinking for others people???? (If someone relies on a computer for answers, aren't they actually asking a programmer?)

Wow, now that's deep thinking Tyger I can just hear the hamster in it's wheel. LOL. But you are right
Tyger, and I agree with you in some ways but not in others. For some (Like AOL users) who do not
want to have to think when they are online or how things work or how they get done, then yes they
are relying on the programmer(s) who wrote the programs they use. And they do not test the programs.

For the rest of us we are curious and are not satisfied (for the most part)to just have something do
what it does. We want to know how, and why. So we use the programs we have and we test them out
we try and make them crash or attempt to break through securities and not to rely on what the programmer
was thinking when he/she wrote it, but to help them out and to better their skills at programming so that
securities become better and windows doesn't crash as much ( :) ya right).

For the most part we are curious and not satisfied with just because. We are elite. If everyone was like
us then life would be boring and we wouldn't be able to discuss this wonderfull topic.

Phew that took a lot of thinking. *is that smoke Dr. I smell smoke*

It basically leaves the question, who thinks for whom?

Are computers thinking for us?
Who thinks for computers?
Are programmers thinking for us?

Also, more and more people are getting glasses to see 20/20.... why? Some people believe it's due to the prolonged exposure of radiation to the eyes... how? staring so close to television sets and sitting before a computer screen for so long...

Can someone argue that? What else could cause this?

Technologies were invented to fit our lazy nature. But if kids can't do simple math, kick them to Europe or the main Asia countries like China, South Korea, or Japan and make them study there for one year, and that should do!