Computers Too Soon?

Doesn't it seem that kids these days are being introduced to computers too early?

I have 3 kids and they and their friends seem to have a helluva time doing any school work or homework if it's not connected to a computer. They don't seem to have the same level or reading comprehension that me and my brothers (and our classmates) had and they definitely do not have a good grasp mathematical processes or scientific methods.

I have had to sit down with my boy and make him rewrite reports as he had copied them verbatim from websites he was using for "research". Plagerism seems to be a foreign concept anymore. Their are websites kids can go to to get science fair projects that are set up "cookbook" fashion - start to finish - that require little or no investigation or reasoning on the part of the user. Just seems to defeat the purpose of it all to me...

Kids today are starting into computer labs in kindergarten! We are raising a generation of people who are too reliant on technology to complete their dya-to-day tasks... How many times have you heard "We can't do anything, the computers are down right now"? I guess a piece of paper and a pencil are out of the question.

My thoughts - computers should not be widely used in schools until Jr. High School, after the kids have developed a solid foundation of using books and reference materials that help them understand who, what, when, where and why instead of the trap they are in now which is read, reiterate and regurgitate with no understanding of the concepts or processes involved in reaching conclusions.

Don't get me wrong. I make my living through computers and IS, but is it just me? Does anybody else see this as a problem? Or am I finally becoming my parents?

You have to teach them the appropriate use of a computer, it really is that simple. I have three kids, 2,8,10. All know how to use a computer. Yeah the 2 year old knows how to put her Elmo CD in the drive and click to start the program, so I call that using a computer.

Anyway, computers are a tool. You need to teach kids just that. As important as a pencil, or a slide-rule, compass, etc. When the time comes they will use those too.

To exclude children from computers because they might use it to cheat is, for all intents and purposes, ludicrous.

I'm sorry you had that experience with your child but try to keep it in perspective.

I agree, they need to be taught and taught properly. But.....it's amazing to me how many parents don't care. People assume becouse of what I do for a living my kids are wired but no, my three year old hasn't touched a computer yet and my 7 year old barely if ever and that's only with my supervision while we look something up. He has access at school and I'm still not comfortable with that.

Back to the parent issue...good for you Specter6, hold your ground and be a good parent. I offered classes this past year through community ed on keeping your kids safe on the internet, 3 different classes, at night so it'd be easier for everyone and not one person signed up. Not one person called to inquire even. Call me an idealist but I was a bit disgusted.

Shouldn't have been surprised really...it's a loosing battle on a daily basis.

Well, myself only being 15, i think i have the best year to be born in.. 1986. I wasn't introduced into computers until i was 9 or 10 years old. And before that.. i had a pretty good understanding of books, and reference =)

um.. ever since 5th grade, i have been extremely into computers. I've went from asking the questions, to answering them =)..

I still ask, questions here and there but now its more of a solid: This is how you would solve your problem, or issue. <-- hehe

its a good idea to have computers used in jr high.

in my school district its' like this:

elementery (k-4th grade) - a few computers
middle school (5th-8th grades) - 2 actual computer labs, with 50 computers in each
high school (9th - 12th grades) - 4 computer labs, with about 50 computers in each lab

and yes, plagerism is a high risk these days.. but, also in books you can do plagerism.. so you have to trust yourself, and others =)

i hope my two cents helped. =)

Well said Korp, I agree w/ you, but I can see the point of comps. making it easier to cheat, but not just in elementary or jr/hgh school. . .when I first started going to college we had the option to take intro to comp. w/ a lab, or comp. I w/ no lab, lot's o people took the comp. I class and wound up hating it, our final was the magic square, eeeeeewww, heh heh, I laugh at it now, but had a helleva time writing my own, anywho, I turned mine in early and when people saw I was done they started to offer me money to write their's, I did a quick search and found exactly what I busted my nuts making. . .and this one was better (we hadn't learned about pointers yet). So anyone that asked me got a copy of that, I didn't charge btw, the point though, just like Korp said. . .gotta teach 'em it's a tool. Most of those people that got the copy I was handing out wound up failing cause they didn't even change the comments B^)).

People have talked a lot about the "great digital divide",
the dividing line between those who can use computers, and
those who can't.
There is a lot of fear that they will be left behind
in the race for success if they don't start early.

I think the digital divide is between those who
program and control computers on one hand,
versus those who only use them on the other.

For people who are not going into IT careers, a lot of their
early computer use is a waste of time, and would be better spent
studying general academic subjects in the traditional way.

For those who are obsessed with computers (you know who you are)
the time you spend at the keyboard is making you into the
DIGITAL ELITE!
:rolleyes: :cool:

Quote:

---

Originally posted here by TechieChick
Back to the parent issue...good for you Specter6, hold your ground and be a good parent. I offered classes this past year through community ed on keeping your kids safe on the internet, 3 different classes, at night so it'd be easier for everyone and not one person signed up. Not one person called to inquire even. Call me an idealist but I was a bit disgusted.

---

And I will hold my ground. My kids all have email address which are locked down to receive mail from family members only and they are able to access their email whenever they want to - as long as the wife or I are right there with them.

They, too, have internet access at school which I'm not thrilled about, either. I have been to many of the schools in our school district and have met many of the "IT" people who work for said district and I am not even close to convinced they know how to monitor and/or isolate traffice on their domains... but that is an entirely different post altogether.

I have also taught many classes to Girl Scout and Boy Scout troops as well as to several community groups about online safety and in particular how to protect kids. Although I have never had a class zero out in registrations, I have been frustrated at the lack of attentiveness and enthusiasm of a lot of those who did attend.

Now I am actually preparing to present several classes intending to narrow the "digital divide" and provide basic computer and Internet literacy classes to senior citizens who find themselves with a new PC and no idea of how to use it or what can be done with it.

Anywho... thanks for the support and kind words.

Hmmmmm its a difficult issue with no right or wrong answer.....personnaly I think that kids should be introduced to computers at an early age but with strict supervision to begin with - pehaps even disconnect the internet for the first wee while - just so they can get used to using the keyboard and mouse and find out how a computer works and what you can do with it - then maybe letting them surf a list of safe sites that the parents have checked before hand.....but as mentioned above it doens't matter how much you supervise your childs internet usage at homs they can still get access at school, local librarys, cyber cafes or their friends houses - is same as anything else where kids are concerned you can't watch them 24/7

v_Ln

I have been using computers since 1989 (perhaps a bit before then). I was 10. I have grown up with using computers, and the internet. But the internet in 1995-97 is a whole lot different than today. A lot more mainstream information, so back then, I couldn't exactly go to a website, find something I could copy, call it my own, and turn it into my teacher. I used encylopedia's and other books for that. :)

In my elementary school, we had a Apple ][e lab. Which we visited once a week, for about a half hour. We didn't do much, just played some games (Oregon Trail anyone?) and used a cheesy typing program.

I hear about how schools are using computers for most all classes now. I think that is OK. In High School, and perhaps Jr. High. But NOT elementary school. Young kids need to learn the basics, then move towards a tool that lets them cut through the repetitive crap, and let them learn the answers of difficult questions.

So I guess I am agreeing with you on that Specter.

Quote:

---

My thoughts - computers should not be widely used in schools until Jr. High School, after the kids have developed a solid foundation of using books and reference materials that help them understand who, what, when, where and why instead of the trap they are in now which is read, reiterate and regurgitate with no understanding of the concepts or processes involved in reaching conclusions.

---

Thought I would add my little bit though totally to the other end of the spectrum of education. Not the kids but the student. On the course I’m currently studying, which is computer systems/science and networks we have some of the toughest rules on our references when writing a papers. We have to have a minimum of 2 book references and 6 internet minim under our research, after that has been reached we must try to maintain a ratio of 1:3, of book and 'net respectively. I’m about 2 year older than my peers generally, when I watch them I the library then are like a group headless chickens set loose, they seam to think that they are hunting they come into the library in packs and spend hours and hours in there, reading every book that has anything at all to do with the board subject matter. These are supposed to be academic, these are the next set of professionals that is being produced!!!!! Because of the age gap leading to a lack of maturity, with those in my year (this is manly because I’m in the first year and most of them have come from home and still are a little wet behind the ears so to speak in terms of the real world) I tend to be with the older student which tend to be in a higher year. Speaking to them is funny, there are people I regular talk to that spend less time in the library than many of the first years and there final year.

On the other hand I also see many mature student that have the reverse problem, they go into the library and work though book work with ease. You see the same mature students in the computer labs for hours and hours and they come out with very little. Many a time I have been asked to help out because they cant find the information they are looking for, they have spent hours and hours looking for it. I sit down help them out and normally within a short period of time I have found them what they are looking for.

Here seams to be a small group that seam to have both sets of skills down to an art, these tend to be the ones that are slightly older than myself. This group seams to have the library skills and have developed there ‘net skills.

Personally I feel weaker on my library skills than my ‘net skills but I still have a lot of refinement on both areas. What in trying to get at is really that both sets of skills are important. Introducing computer at a young age with our society tendency to be more and more into IT reliance is a good idea, what needs to be looked at is stopping the tendency to become depend on IT, try to get a balance on both book and the ‘net skills, starting both sets of skills at a young age will allow them as much time to develop these skills.

Kindred69

The farthest back I can remember my computer use going to, is reading and writing programs in kindergarten, and Oregon Trail on an Apple in 1st grade. I didn't start using the internet until 4th or 5th grade, and didn't get the internet on my own computer at my own house until some time later.

And I think that's a pretty good development. Compared to watching TV, I think computer games kick ass. At least with a game, you can use a bit of your brain. (Just as long as it's not too gory. There's a reason why some games are rated M.) I know when I have kids I'll probably end up more leniant when it comes to computers, rather than the TV.

The internet is a trickier issue. It's becoming a bigger and bigger form of communication, so you have to know how to use it. But there are a lot of things I wouldn't want a young kid seeing. I guess the key is to start with monitored usage and then relax your rules once you start to really trust what your kid is doing. But really, I'm just speaking theoretically.

When I was in my high school English class we had to read "of mice and men". I finished the book in about half the time as everyone else and this got me thinking. Why was I such a good reader? It's not like I read books in my fee time. Then it hit me all most all the out put from a computer comes in text form. I had been reading 24/7 since I was 12.

My point is that if nothing else kids who use computers will end up being a lot more literate then the kids who watch TV all day.

cwk9:
You have a pretty valid point. Throughout the past few years i have thought to myself, "gee I don't read much books anymore" then, I realize that I have pretty much substituted doing stuff on the computer and Internet, than sitting down and reading a book. Now don't get me wrong here, I still read books. Just not nearly as much as I used too. Now, they tend to be reference books, instead of the "get lost in a story" book.

I concur with your opinion on using a computer is better than watching TV.

Back to the main topic:
I guess it all boils down to the Parents. YOU are responsible for how much your children learn, and how they learn it. A student no matter which grade, has a few ways of completing their assignment, without cheating. Now, lets take two students and a Math test. When doing this test, you can use a piece of 'scratch' paper, to write out all your problems, and do it visually, or you can do it with a calculator. One student does it on his 'scratch' paper, then writes the answers down, the second student uses the calculator. They both have the answers correct.
But which one is more knowledgeable? The one who wrote it down the long-hand way? Or the one who did it with using the calculator?

Answer:
It really depends, on if the student who used the calculator realizes how to get the answer by doing it the long-hand way. Why? Because in the real-world you won't have a calculator with all the time. I know, I need it quite frequently at work, but I don't have one. Guess i don't want to carry one around with me. And I suck in math. So I end up having to do it long-hand.

If you as a parent think that your child isn't learning the formula to achieve the answer, then you should either address the concern to the principal or whoever. Or take matters into your own hands, and teach your child(ren) how to do it, without using a tool which will allow them to get the answer quicker.

Being a minor myself, I persoanlly didn't use a computer that had internet access until 7th grade, and not getting a PC at home until 9th grade. But I started using computers in 2nd grade (I think they were old 486's), and in second grade I started using old AppleIIe's (what version of MacOS had a desktop that had folders instead of a standard desktop?)

Anyway, on the issue of teaching a child... I believe that what KorpDeath is doing is great. Letting your children start using them at an early age helps them in the long run, as long as they don't become hooked to it at age 2. I also agree with cwk9 about being more literate because of reading on the computer as well as reference manuals (about a foreign worker named manual) on various subjects, whether it be HTML, Java, C, or Linux...
If people started using and becoming more proficient with computers at an earler age, we wouldn't have nearly as many stupid computer-illiterate users out there.

As a student myself I would say that kids shouldn't be introduced to computers any earlier then 2nd or 3rd grade. Kids at that point should be supervised strictly.

In discussion about school "IT people" or whatever they want to be called, my experience with them has showed me they lack the knowlegde and/or the caring to properly supervise access at schools.

I have found that my reading abailty and vocabulary has gone up as a result of reading on the net, but it even on a laptop is as enjoyable to curl up with as a good book in its tree-killing paper form.

Idea!
Don't use a computer until you use a book to find out how the computer works :) Don't use an internet site until you read books about how it got there. Don't use anything, until you've done actual research into how and why it works. Think that'd get kids thinking a bit more?

*shrug*
Just an idea.
God bless,
--PhirePhreak

Wow - I really had no idea this post would attract so much attention. I guess it's really not a sign I am getting older...

I do push my kids towrds books and I check all homework before it goes to school. I point out errors and get them to fix them on their own (not just give them the correct answers).

After reading several posts, I realized I may be projecting a lot of my academic success onto my kids and may have expectations that are higher than they should be. After completing college with a 3.78 GPA and receiving nothing less than 96% in all math (I still hate calculus...), science and computer science classes, maybe I am expecting too much from kids who are still learning fractions, earth science and the like.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you all have reinforced my beliefs in the way I work with my kids, but made me realize that I could relax a little and let them be kids.

Thanks to all!

this is a post of life.. meaning, it's more attention getting =)

and, its good for adults to push us kids.. but not into books. i can't stand books. my mom did that as well, as i was in middle school & elemetary .. i was having my mom and dad check my homework (mom checked, english, science .. dad check math) .. but i check my own work now, that my parents have taught me this great thing to do =/ it takes me an extra 5 mins of work but, an extra understanding of why and wut i missed. =)

and your 3.78GPA in college, is just outstanding =) Congratulations =)

and thank you, as well..

and for you: your welcomed ---> "Thanks to all!"

--joey

Computers are the reality of the future, I think that if they are used properly computers teach our children much more than they would normally have access to. They find using a computer to search for information far more interesting than going and searching encylopedias. Children do need supervision, that I certainly agree with of God knows what they will learn on the internet. If we can assist them in learning, why not.

i also have a kid, she first layed her hands on the keyboard at age 2.

Heh, I laid hands on a keyboard at the age of 5. Then at the age of 10 I became a Hax0r.