School Hypocrites

Okay listen to this..

In school we have IDs (its a high school) u scan ur ID each day in a machine and it takes attendance and sends sheets to the teacher so they know u are in the building and if u dont show up for their class they fill in a buble and it tells them that u cut and it marks it on the computer. I cut 8 classes that were not excuses this year (year ends in under 3 months) and i missed 1 detension for school... So when i scanner my ID the siren went off and they took me down to the dean.. The dean was like "where were u for 5th period yesterday Steven?" i said "i cut the class..." shes like "You have 8 cuts this year steven and ur a senior and ur trying to get out of here... and you also cut a detension for cutting..." im like "can i make it up?" shes like "The last time u were suspended was in sept... I think we need to give you another one to teach u a leason" me - "What leason is that...? that the school is a hypocrite and if you cut a class they will suspend u so u miss ALL your classes instead of one... wow gotta love public schools"

needless to say that bought me a trip to the principle and another day of suspension...


Any Thoughts Or Opinions On This Subject?

I dunno about the suspension, they have to punish you somehow. All I'm gonna say is that school of yours sounds like a friggen jail mate. It's like you are in the damn Big Brother house, under survellience 24-7. At my high-school, they didn't have nothing like that. They really couldn't give a rats ass where you were. When they needed to tell you off, they did, that's about it. If you were away, they would sometimes mark it, sometimes they wouldn't really check.

Anyways, I dunno, I just don't agree with the amount of survellience your school has, that's just too much I reckon. Anyways, that's what I think.

Greg

hehe
damn schools!
but i was just thinking...your school has a id scanning system in place? whoa..i have just been thinking about that concept for the past couple of days! I never thought it would be implimented in schools! That's...cool
haha
Cheers!
:D

It has been my experience to NEVER EVER question the flawed logic of the public school system. You will only land yourself in a deeper hole than the one you began in.

i got that shiot all the time, i was the king of telling the school about its hipocritical and beuricratic ways, without getting in trouble... they hted me cause i eventually got enough kids together to complain (along with their parents) change the rules ;)

We also have machines u walk threw that are metal detectors and we have our own police station inside the school. Above all that we have 3 cameras in each hallway of the school that give 24 hour video feed into the police station in the school... Needless to say cutting is something that u can rarely get away with but it is still a well practiced thing...

They are going to implement machines inside each class for u to scan so they can mark u eletronicly from lateness and keeping u from leaving the classrooms... Also put them at the lunch room doors so u cant cut classes and go to lunch...


Also i go to a VERY LARGE public school... Student body is a unknown size to me but i live in Philadelphia and its one of the largest schools here that i know of. They have 80 % of the doors in the building bolted locked *from the inside* This is illegal and i am currently makeing a video tape of all the doors that are locked as a fire hazard and i am takeing it to the school district because the principle is the one that ordered the doors to be locked

When I was in my final year in secondry sochool (high school) the management tried to install video cameras in the hallways and outside the school.
The student body was very vocal in opposing these cameras and we forced (through various tactics) the management to remove the cameras in the hallways.
I'd love to see them try to install systems like those in NetSyn's school. There would be riots! And if the students lost their battle and they were put in operation at least half the students (the older half) would refuse point blank to use them (i.e. ever swipe their cards).
It seems to me that students in Ireland have much more power than those in other countries (especially in the U.S). For instance when I was in fifth year (second last year) a student was wrongfully suspended (he didn't do it) and the entire year (approx. 150 students) went on strike in protest (if a teacher entered a classroom everybody left). All 150 of us were suspended over this so we took our case to the local politicians and after two days of a two week suspension we were all back in school (including the original wrongfully suspended person), the principal lost his job (he is still a teacher in the school just no longer the principle) and three other teachers were put on probation (whatever that means).
Properly organised students can have a very strong political voice (all those future voters) and some students in my area are starting to realise this and as a result school is getting much fairer for them.


P.s. All that said the educational climate in Ireland is quite different from those in other countries. Thanks to our Draconian gun laws here only about one in 10000 students could get thier hands on a handgun (children of major (and only the major) criminals mainly), only one in ten (roughly) could easily get a shotgun and less still have the ability to even hold a rifle if they so desired, and as a result no Irish teachers will lay awake at night wondering if they will get shot tomorrow (unless they are really really paranoid). Cause of this some security measures used in schools in other countries are considered an infringement of the stundent rights here.

No wonder no one gets an education today. You're all too busy bitchin' about badly the teachers treat you. In my day....blah blah blah.....old man remarks.......blah blah.

You aren't gonna change the school by bitching. But then again in my high school days most kids were too apathetic to do anything meaningful.

Netsyn- Just take it like a man, we've all been through it.

i have to say.. a lot of security that they add to the schools actually make it very uncomfortable to be in the school, it makes you feel like your worthless and are being put down. It degrades moral, and by doing so degrades performence. like people say.. it feels like a prison or something... and you know how the moral is in most of them...

wow, that is a ****ing prison...and it would be a good idea to complain about it, coz it seem's that they are making all the student's jumpy, something which is not a good thing...

Go for it, if the door's are locked the it would be really dangerous... :P
Good luck
- Noia

Complaining about something that like is going to do nothing.....

Think about it... Columbine Shooting? Sept 11?

School's in the US are very paranoid about what COULD happen....
And television shows like Boston Public is not helping the situation either....

I'm not sure about the school in the south on Canada, but in the North, we are "free" from this kind of intrusion.... The worst I've seen it was a security guard walking the hallways...

The only difference is College, where you have a few security personnel walking the hallways and a few cameras.... but they mainly unlock doors for people.....

I wish all those who suffer this the best of luck, and to stay strong.... only a little bit of time and you'll get parole :D, I mean, out of school....

Are you really serious?
That sounds almost like somthing out of the movies, but i suppose it is possible.

In fact... Im skipping Chemistry right now...
hahaha

Ever try to destroy the machines?
If theyre magnetic like credit cards then here is what you do. Put a little piece of magnet in one of the keycard machines, itll fry everyone's card that goes in it. Use a rare earth magnet from a crashed harddrive. You can break them without losing much magnetism, and they are VERY strong. They control the head positioner after all.

I dont think i could make it through my bullshit classes if i couldnt leave any time i want.

Personally, id think seriously about destroying the card readers.

What a futuristic school. You can walk out in the middle of my school...

NetSyn --

From what I read of your posts you're obviously a bright guy - let's face it, 99.999% of people will /never/ actually bother to find out what a datagram is, let alone what the 13th octet is actally /for/ - eg. syn/synack/ack.

And you're obviously enrolled at an institution that is both well resourced and intent upon using those resourses and the technology availible to them in an effective manner. Please bear in mind that this is not universally true - you are (globally speaking - not just in terms of the US) in the priveledged minority. I'm not saying you should be grateful for your education, just that you should be aware of it and the benefits it offers you in later life.

Let's skip the obvious points about civil liberties and ID tagging here, because it simply doesn't apply in this context and I can guarantuee that if I mention civil liberties that within 5 posts someone will be talking about gun-control. So let's just not go there - Ok ;)

And bear in mind that in the post education word of gainful employment they don't give detentions - they just fire you. So maybe you're bright enough to take it on the chin, as another lesson learned (take it from me there are lots of lessons in this life that are NOT academic).

You say you're in your final year? So stop cutting class, hit the books and get the results you need to go on to tertiary education where you can specialise in your chosen field. Education is _always_ painful. But it's nececary so that you can make an /educated/ decision as to what you want to do with the rest of your life.

This strategy also has the added benefit of a good job/lifestyle as one of the 0.001% of the population who knows what a datagram looks like when you finish your education.

Just a thought. :)

wow aparently i dont have enough education cause alot of that was complex ;)

lol as for takeing it like a man i am going to serve the small suspension they have given me with a smirk on my face noticeing how idiotic the whole situation is....

The way i see it is this.... If someone kills someone you dont make them kill more people to teach them a leason.... unless they are killing someone they care about... But then again if i cut 1 class 7 times their punishment is this... Because u cut 1 class 7 times we will make u miss ALL of your classes 3 times in a row so u accually learn less!

it just seems stupid to me and i just thought id share my opinions with you all so you can know how i feel currently on the situation of higher learning in the school system.

School sucks - but it gets better after that :)

Unless you married a teacher. Oh - that would be me then. lol ;)

But seriously - your education /is/ a priveledge (even if it doesn't seem so when viewed from the perspective of the individual being educated) and therefore the imposed sanction is a suspension of that privelege.

What I'm saying is that it only seems back-to-front and inside-out when you don't view your education as a priveledge - which no-one can whilst still undergoing the process. Call it the human condition, call it catch 22. There it is.

I'm surprised more by the security in your school then by the suspension. In my school, you can get in trouble for cutting, even if you don't, because teachers are too something, i dont know what. They just don't like to accept that teens might be right and they might be wrong.

Anyway, our school had it's second bomb threat of the year today, so they sent us out to our stadium bleachers while the police searched the place. And we have no organized security in our school. I've only seen cameras in the cafeteria and some computer labs. As for ID cards, noone cares about them...

Hey on your quick profile it says under the numbers of posts the following:

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Proxy Detected

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Is it a bug? I haven't seen it on other user. And sth else ntsa is NetSyn ?

Yeh, similar to my school NetSyn. We have a big gate/fence that goes around the _entire_ perimeter of our school, that is only allowed open for parents picking people up or kids who have prior permission to leave for school reasons. This is, of course, very annoying. Anyways, we also have cameras, and we have metal detectors at all of the entrances (except one).

So, I feel ya pain and all. Sucks to be you. Just, protest the crap out of it not now, but when they put a freaking 12 ft high fence up around the entire campus. No escaping then, and it really does seem like a prison. :(

BTW: And about what Alcatraz said about the bomb threats and all, angst-filled teens that've been kicked out of our schools do this on almost a weekly basis. We get out of school early so often it's unbelievable because of supposed bombs in our school. Our school, just this year, has been deliberately caught on fire while school was in four times by students who were angry for whatever reason, and really that's not even the half of it. My school, before I was there, was so peaceful, just the occassional fight and all. But this fence, camera, and detector business has really changed stuff around.

Now, i have it too. What is this? JP?

ii-monk--

I am surfing anonmously through an open proxy server. This means that my IP doesn't show up in the server logs of the sites that I visit. The following is a partial list of anonymous proxy servers taken from http://www.multiproxy.org/anon_list.htm

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dnai-216-15-34-70.cust.dnai.com:80
barto.blinncol.edu:8080
64.132.101.201:8080
216.125.41.2:80
machinetransport.com:80
12.34.48.126:80
12.34.48.129:8080
206.8.102.102:80
216.102.13.21:80
64.132.101.212:8080
216.101.117.161:8000
63.238.139.7:80
64-93-37-226.client.dsl.net:80
216.167.107.64:8080
cmas-tj.cablemas.com:8080
207.225.81.150:80
12.34.48.129:80
webmail.mail-ahoy.com:8000

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go tools | internet options | connections | settings | connect through proxy

_/DO NOT/_ do this if you are on a LAN because you will screw up your internet connection (which will already be proxied).

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And sth else ntsa is NetSyn

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Whut? Sorry?

But, i'm not surfing through an open proxy server (i think). Why it appears on me too.Please don't flame, it's stupid, i know. On my question:"And sth else ntsa is NetSyn" I'm asking if you (ntsa) is the same guy with NetSyn.
N from the first letter Netsyn.
T from the third letter neTsyn.
S from the forth letter netSyn.
A from the version (edition) of you NetSyn, the second one.
[Don't flame].

I feel old after seeing this post. When I was in high school. We could smoke, they had soda machines, we could leave campus for lunch, go outside at lunch and between classes. I has changed drasticaly. Those were the days..... :D

I know when i was in school, we always talked about how stupid the school was to suspend you, when you where skipping class. This school having much MUCH less, security than yours, NetSyn (thank god).

Perhaps this whole suspension thing, is from the old-school ways, of dealing with students. When the students actually wanted to learn.(?) It should change, as most everything else, does during evolution.

As for the comment about NetSyn almost being finished with school, and should go...
During the last half of my Senior year, I almost didn't graduate. Why? Simply put. I wasn't learning a damn thing. So why go to school when you aren't learning? I had to go. So i could have enough credits to graduate. What is the purpose of getting credits? It shows that you have learned something. So when does not learning, and getting credits the right way to learn? Confused yet? :)

After having failed all my classes in the 3rd quarter, I got my act straightened out. Kind of. We had four classes a day, 80 minute classes. Two classes before Lunch. Two after lunch. So during the 4th quarter, I would go to my "mandatory" class. Meaning I made a deal with this teacher that, he would let me stay in his class, if i showed up. If i didn't show up once, I was out, and then would not graduate because, i did not have the required amount of credits.

So i showed up to that class. The next class was P.E. And they way the grade you in that class, is if you have "dressed down" (gotten into PE type clothes). So i wore shorts every day. Showed up for attendance, and did the daily exercises. Then I left, went home, and used my computer. Stayed at home, past lunch, past the third class, then went into the last class. Which I had to go to, and which was easy **** anyway. Again, didn't learn anything in that class either.
And I graduated. Went to Europe for a graduation present.
I just wanted to learn. And if I wasn't learning, why be there in the first place?

As you can see, the school system is ****ed up. But stick with it. It is such a huge burden off your back, once you have your Diploma. Then you can go your own way. Get a job, or go to college.

ii-monk--

No I am someone else entirely. ntsa refers to my job (NT sysadmin). Netsyn is a reference to syn packets (a packet that starts the 3 way handshaking of syn/synack/ack as defined by rfc793).

Identity crisis over :)

I hated high school.....glad it's over.
*LOL*
But cherish it while it lasts, there's so much I look back on and laugh about now....
Even the stupidity of the school system and whatnot....and if you ever take a sociology class in college, they'll go more in depth to why that is.....You can't help but snicker.... *LOL*

I'm in senior now and the teachers don't care wheather you attend the class or not. They say it reflects it on your grade...

hahah well in our school.. we do have those IDs with magentic strips and we swipe them on the building door to get inside.. and each rooms.. also has them swipey thingies thats for attendance and for entrance.. coz you can only get in rooms which u are given access to.. and it also serves as an attendance and log thingy so they would know who went in that room at a certain time incase of some emergency.. but ours NEVER had an alarm.. lol when we cut class.. there is no alarm that goes off but after few mins u will have a teacher waiting outside the room to take u to the Year Coordinator.. and discuss your delinquency..

reason of suspension is coz.. when ur suspended.. u will miss more class and will have a HARDER time catching up what u missed.. and if u cant manage to catch up.. u fail.. so basically.. it would refrain u from cutting more class.. coz u already missed out alot when u cut ur class and u will miss MORE if u get suspended.. so if u dont want a HARDER time to catch up with things and if you dont want to DOUBLE your study time and effort and DOUBLE your chances of failing ALL your subjects.. dont cut class.. :P

and if your excuse for failing is coz u were suspended.. well u shouldnt have cut class in the first place, should u?.. hehehe

its basically saying.. "since you love to miss class.. why dont I let u miss class for A WHOLE MONTH.. and then you might know what it MEANS when you MISS CLASSES.. and you would also LEARN the CONSEQUENCES if you miss your classes.."

i learnt that lesson when i was in University.. because in Uni.. they DONT CARE if ur in class or not.. as long as u hand in all your assessments in time.. ur ok.. u wont fail.. but since i wasnt in some classes i didnt knew what they were talking about and everytime i show up in class again.. they dump me TONS of assessments that i dont even know what they are.. and if i ask.. what these assessemets are .. they say "well u should have been here when we were discussing this in class.." so long story short.. i failed some of my subjects and didnt get to recieve my certificate.. and since i didnt get my certificate.. i cant get a job.. coz no employer would hire someone who doesnt show up and cant be relied to do his/her job.. and someone who has NO QUALIFICATIONS.. so i did my course AGAIN.. and this time i didnt skip ANY CLASS.. not even once.. and i passed all and finally got my certificate.. and get a proper job..

Take some advice from somebody who tried to fight the school system as a younger man. Went through three highschools and four colleges, and this is what I learned.

You get out of school what you put into it. If you only bitch and fight with the school, it will just bitch and fight with you, and you will be miserable. If you come motivated to learn and put the effort in, the school will put the effort in to teach you. You can always learn something from a class, the illusion of wellbeing and self bias need to be put aside so you can benefit. That next thing is the hardest part of getting a successful education. You have to stop externalizing the problems associated with school. If you can accept your share of responsibility for the way your education is developing, then you acknowledge the fact that it is in your hands to shape. Then, if you are motivated, school can be a wonderful thing for you.

Of course, school is not for everyone. Clearly until you are eighteen you have no choice, but at that point if you really feel you have nothing to gain then there is no reason to go. You can not teach somebody who is unwilling to learn. Before you decide this, however, I would take a long and serious look in the mirror. Analyze yourself, what have you done or not done to help or hinder your education. Accept responsibility, do not distribute blame. If you still feel it is a waste of your time, then it will be for you as long as you maintain that attitude. Get a job for the sake of the rest of us though, we need productive members of society.

wow - and I thought my comments were harsh :) Don't beat about the bush - tell the bloke how you really feel shkuey ;).

Bunking classes.I love the subject.Bunking and hanging out with friends !!!..i like it most.We need only 75% attendance out of total .So enough classes to cut.But the pending work that comes after cutting the classes is a huge.So i just give some papers and a carbon paper to my friend and say to copy the notes that she takes to my paper.as simple as that.

I'd say the medium for communication is harsh, text lacking intonation or expression. If my words come off as harsh know that is not how I intended, rather the things I describe are the realizations I had to go through myself. My experience I share so that if it makes sense to others they can see what I saw.

The comment at the end was mostly a joke, though possibly a tad serious.

Bunking classes.I love the subject.Bunking and hanging out with friends !!!..i like it most.We need only 75% attendance out of total .So enough classes to cut.But the pending work that comes after cutting the classes is huge.So i just give some papers and a carbon paper to my friend and say to copy the notes that she takes to my paper.as simple as that.

shkuey --

Hey, no offence - I agree with you!

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And bear in mind that in the post education word of gainful employment they don't give detentions - they just fire you. So maybe you're bright enough to take it on the chin, as another lesson learned (take it from me there are lots of lessons in this life that are NOT academic).

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What I'm saying is that it only seems back-to-front and inside-out when you don't view your education as a priveledge - which no-one does whilst still undergoing the process. Call it the human condition, call it catch 22. There it is.



Netsyn --

Just out of interest - what /is/ a 1337 sheep? And in which ways does it differ from, say a number 1336 or a number 1338 sheep? Checked www.tuxedo.org but no mention of it in the lexicon...;)

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Originally posted here by NetSyn
We also have machines u walk threw that are metal detectors and we have our own police station inside the school. Above all that we have 3 cameras in each hallway of the school that give 24 hour video feed into the police station in the school... Needless to say cutting is something that u can rarely get away with but it is still a well practiced thing...

They are going to implement machines inside each class for u to scan so they can mark u eletronicly from lateness and keeping u from leaving the classrooms... Also put them at the lunch room doors so u cant cut classes and go to lunch...


Also i go to a VERY LARGE public school... Student body is a unknown size to me but i live in Philadelphia and its one of the largest schools here that i know of. They have 80 % of the doors in the building bolted locked *from the inside* This is illegal and i am currently makeing a video tape of all the doors that are locked as a fire hazard and i am takeing it to the school district because the principle is the one that ordered the doors to be locked

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That's a real good way to spend tax money, let me ask you something - How new are your books? How many students are in your average class? They really know how to spend money sometimes. Perhaps rather than strictly enforcing you to not cut class, they should put more effort into motivating students to want to go to class. Besides, those who cut are more likely to be a distirbance to learning.

Good move taking the door locking to the attention of the school district, that is a HUGE fire hazard .

There are a lot of stupid politics in the public school system, the one that always got me was when I went to high school in NYC- they were always trying to raise standards. Well, that sounds good right- raising standards would be real good if half the student population wasn't already struggling to meet the current standards. But this is what gets me, at the same time we were dealing with an overcrowding situation. So now they raise the standards, more students fail, more students have to spend 5 or 6 years to meet graduation requirements and they wonder why the dam schools are so overcrowded.

Forgive me if these points were already made, but I am too lazy to read everypost on here.

How are you doing in English?

At my school they also have the ID system implememted. Needless to say it doesn't work. The systems (which are NT4 os) crash on a regular basis making students late to first period. In addition to this, our ID cards have our social security numbers on them. I tried to have my ID changed to a number besides by Soc number but the guidance counsolor sent me to the principle, who sent me to student services, who sent me to the district office, who sent me back to the guidance counsolor.

lmao.. thats funny..

but yeah.. u cant force people to learn things when they dont want to..
what motivated me was the question "where would i be 20 years from now? and where would I WANT TO BE 20 years from now?.."

i was cutting class.. failing.. so my first answer was.. "id be a bum.." but when i thought of what i want to be in 20 years from now.. "is to own my own place... have my own car.. work as a security specialist in a huge company.. and live a life that most men only dream about"
heh... so thats when i decided to straighten up my act and start working hard..

coz after all the hard work at school.. or in whatever u do.. it all comes down to you.. you would be the only one who would enjoy the fruit of your work.. so yeah.. if i bum around.. im the one who is loosing.. one day my parents would be very old to work that they'd retire.. and if i dont get a good lifestyle soon, i'd be litteraly stranded.

everything u do today.. always reflects on you in the near future.
which reminds me i have to get off the computer soon coz i have a meeting in few mins.. ;)