"Inside" vs. "Outside"

So many people think it's the cooloest thing to be a "hacker" because we have access to "everything", but is it really all that great? Newsweek and Time magazines claim we have our own language, communication skills, etc. When we're just using what's taught to us or handed to us. Are "we"that bad? some of "us" may do illegal things with our knowledge and others may know how, but does that make anyone of "us" different from the people who make up C++ and BASIC and whatnot? How are we different from programmers that work for Multitrillion $ companies? I don't get it!! I'm so sick of hearing admin. at my local library and the school i go to talk about the "hackers" aka "elite few" and how bad they are.
Any Ideas on why? give a reply. let's hear what you have to say.

[pong]Mostasteless666 out![/pong]

You've said we many many times, like you want to show that you are hacker, but i have something to tell you. First, a hacker don't say what s/he is(hacker) in public, they try to keep hiden their ability and their knowlegde. Second maybe not nessecary here, to find a real hacker who will say you that he is hacker, it's a bit difficult, because they know that people don't know the difference between crackers and hackers and that people know them as criminals, so they try not to be tracked.

I personnally never tried to hack strangers... I mostly hack my own stuff only to see if it's secure enough to keep lamers and kiddies away. I sincerely doubt a "leet" hacker would have time to waste on my stuff and probably is old and wise enough to use lamers or kiddies to do his dirty work...

Remember anything can be hacked but also anyone can be traced... If I was a "leet" hacker, I would use mules... ;) There are zillions of those hacker wannabes on IRC channels that would do just about anything only to look k0oL. In my mind that is where the danger is, not from "leet" hackers... Remember Mafiaboy? And that guy Steve Gibson wasted precious time writting about?

Enough babbling, that was my useless bit in that useless topic :D

if I got a dollar for every time I read and answered to a thread like this I would be a freakin millionaire!

Mostasteless666: Yes it's unfair.... yes many ppl don't know what they're talking about... and hackers don't break the law, crackers do... u can become a professional hacker at e.g. M.I.T. ...
ok, that was the basics... read some oldschool hacker ethics if u wanna learn more or buy the book "The Hacker Ethic and the Spirit of The Information Age"... it should make everything very clear (if u don't know all this already of course ;) )... all hackers (all who consider themselves hackers) should know the true hacker ethics because this is what makes us hackers, not just our knowledge...

and don't listen to ur admin at the library... instead go and enlighten him!
the reason why hackers are hated is because we're smart and we know a lot about something most ppl don't know sh*t about (computers)... and thx to Hollywood all the "normal" folks think we're criminals.. until we tell them otherwise of course :)
good post... but there's many just like this... go do a search in the archives... maybe u'll some some good answers to ur question there...
peace! :)

damn! two ppl posted while I was writing mine.. lol... hmmm.. just felt like sharing that :D

ii-monk... most hackers like telling ppl what they are... because they know they aren't breaking the law and want to share that info with every1 else... one of the most important things in the hacker communities is sharing information etc... and I'm not talking about warez here :)
I AM A HACKER AND PROUD OF IT! hehe ;) I'm a white hat... I've never broken the law by abusing my computer knowledge and I hopefully never will...

Oh, i forgot sth. And those guys who say that they are hackers (such as zion1459, but not as Scorp666, because he told me that it was a confusion), they just want so much to be hackers, but in fact they don't know anything.

heh heh, I want some stock in a 'Multitrillion $ company". . .

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heh heh, I want some stock in a 'Multitrillion $ company". . .

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I'd rather just own a multitrillion company :D

another wee thing to throw in and complicate the argument even more - what about the different forms of hackers? white hat/black hat & even the illusive grey ;)

Are black hats actually crackers? or are they comletely dif?

v_Ln

Monk? Where did I talk about confusion?

I am dazed and confused, I know that but sure don't remember talking about it :D

I am not a hacker, I am a SOB :D

SOBs have no ethics and smoke weird cigarettes lmao

I am also a Space Cowboy and a Mutated Freak...

I am not a Pony though.

If that makes sense to you, call the paramedics :D

Angel...
I would reply but these boys already hit the nail on the head :)

while typing this message lmao

:D :D :D

ii-monk: I actually expected a lame reply from u :D
now what makes u feel that u are able to judge me in any way? U're calling some1 u have no idea of who is for a wannabe-hacker... lmao! grow up... if u don't understand or believe what I have written plz tell me and I will explain it further and proove whatever it is u don't believe... u see, I'm not a wannabe. But unlike u I know what a hacker is and if u had done just a little research on the hackers origin and what hackers really are u would know what I was talking about... Hackers don't hide on the Net and act like they're bad ass criminals.. u've seen way to many hollywood movies.

valhallen: Crackers and black hats are mostly the same... but black hats often have real jobs and work with security but then abuses this knowledge to commit crimes in cyberspace... crackers often just deface websites and have fun with that... or something... don't really know for sure but I know that they're bad ;)
I personally don't like the terms white hat, black hat, cracker, etc... like I said: Hacking is a profession so that word is ok to use. Crackers however I normally just call (cyber)criminals because that's what they are. I believe the word cracker is making things more complicated then necessary.

GO ZION!

Ok I see you don't like criminals... Makes some sense.

Now let be hypothetical here...

Let's say some Gvt runned agency wants to know what is on someone's computer and hire some good hacker like the ones that don't hide. Does this guy still is a good hacker? I mean if you are hired and paid it means you are good???

Now if a "bad" hacker uses his "powers" to take down a site that promotes murder or faschism or whatever "bad" stuff illegally (Hacking is illegal in your mind) is he a full fledged criminal aka a bad guy???

There is no such thing as pitch black or angel white in hacking territory, just like in real life...

Only motives, causes and results...

I am on the Dark Side of the Moon and sitting on the Sun at the same time, I am the Lizard King, I can do anything! But am too lazy to do anything ;)

Again I lost my logic in a sharp turn! Dang remind me to fasten my seat belt!

Obnoxiously yours,

Scorp666:
Hacking is not illegal, it's an education. And just like so many other things we learn in life we decide whether to use it in a morally correct and legal way or use it to hurt others.
Take a locksmith e.g. He can do his job as a locksmith or become a very good burglar because let's face it... he can open ur front door in less than 20 seconds! So if we use this on hacking we can say. Hackers are the locksmiths and crackers are the burglars. I know it's a bad example but it was the easiest way to explain it :D

Now the part about hackers/crackers destroying bad websites (kiddie porn sites etc.). I respect what they do but it's still illegal. They are taking the law into their own hands. If some1 kills my sister I would gladly kill that person if I could find him/her but it's still murder. Eye for an eye. Tooth for a tooth. That's a dangerous path to walk down.
There are better ways to fight these things. A legal way will take much longer (e.g. going through the police and politicians to make some changes in relevant laws) but the result will last longer.
That's how I see it. There's a very very thin line between right and wrong so u're right: There is no pitch black or angel white.

Man you sound like a cop, a judge or a politician!

Which are you? :D :D :D

Let me say this....

If I am given a warrant for your arrest for defacing a kiddyporn site, I'd do it, but I would not be proud at that time....

However, if you did get caught doing such a thing (defacing kiddyporn sites) I'm sure both the police force and the legal system will be EASY on you....

I don't think I'd bring a pair of cuffs...

I'm not a cop, judge or a politician hehe :D

the laws are there to make society work.. some laws are wrong but breaking them wont fix the problem... however if I were a judge and had to judge some guy who defaced a kiddie p0rn site then I would let him go with a small fine... defacing a site doesn't hurt any1.
I just believe it's smarter to use the law instead of abusing it ;)

Imagine a freak running a kiddy pr0n site complaining to the cops that his site was defaced...

He would be in deep sh*t... :D

How about a White supremacists website or a Hells Angels website?

Hells Angels? First time I have ever heard anyone on this site talk trash about the hells angels...

I for one would figure most hackers would be to scared to mess with a biker gang...

jcmcb: dunno about that... I hardly think the bikers know how to trace a hacker :D but if they do... RUN! hehe

tyger_claw, Scorp666: why wanna deface a site? why risk ur intire future just so to see a site be ofline until they run their backup utils? It makes little sence to me. I don't know how the law is in ur part of the world but if I **** up here in Denmark I wont be able to get a proper job the next five years. And I'd rather use the law to send the kiddie pr0n *******s to jail than just deface their site.

lol I thought hackers were courageous and not scared of anything??? Are biker gangs the nemesis of hackers? :D

Not afraid to steal CIA files but scared of a few big bellied beer drinkers... mmm ah well everybody has their own limitations ;)

Who said I deface sites? As I said in previous posts, I don't mess with strangers sites...

Word of wisdom : Never accept cookies from a stranger! :D

Scorp666:

Words of wisdom: Never accept non-eatable cookies from a stranger! :D

/me likes chocolate cookies...
I would gladly accept some of those from a stranger lol ;)

I prefer Danish pastries ;)

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Originally posted here by zion1459
Hacking is not illegal, it's an education. And just like so many other things we learn in life we decide whether to use it in a morally correct and legal way or use it to hurt others.
Take a locksmith e.g. He can do his job as a locksmith or become a very good burglar because let's face it... he can open ur front door in less than 20 seconds! So if we use this on hacking we can say. Hackers are the locksmiths and crackers are the burglars. I know it's a bad example but it was the easiest way to explain it :D

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The locksmith can do his job legally because there is someone else standing in front of him, claiming that their piece of property needs to be fixed or "broken in to" or opened. With a reasonable confirmation of this person's "need," the service is no longer illegal (or, at least, the locksmith is no longer legally liable). It's similiar to the way that "hired killers" seem to be less liable for a murder than the person that "contracted" them (or at least if memory seres correctly, the judicial system (in the US anyhow) seems to be more lenient on someone stupid enough to do a bad job for money than someone desperate enough to hire someone else to do their dirty work).

Similiarly, hacking when you are contracted to do it on a site where you have the owner's permission is legal, though it's normally done under the label of "security assessment" or "penetration testing." Hacking someone else's property, without permission, is still wrong (and illegal). Hacking, however, I've personally defined as "doing something clever to get around a known issue" and I do not necessarily always associate it with computer systems.

Sorry, my mistake, i meant Mostasteless666.

draziw:
u're right.. hacking does not always have something to with computers. Hacking is an ideology. It's ethics. A clever way to change the system to something better. Hacktivists make good examples of this.