Marijuana and The Straight Edge

Why is it that Marijuana smokers are looked down upon. I have been the target of multipule attacks on my intellect, simply based on the fact that I smoke Marijuana. I understand that people have their pre-determined notations about things, but once someone has been educated on the facts, they really have no excuse for their ignorance. In fact, that makes it stupidity.

So you look at me and my kind as slackers, no-goals, and no intellect. No comman sence and no-good for anything but warming the couch. Thats fine, to be honest thats what it can be come. Easily. However, when used in a responsible manner, and not too much, I think it is a good thing.

You have to look at society. We are a drug society. We have drugs for everything. And Everything has drugs. Meaning a Dr will perscribe you a drug for whatever is wrong.Well we have people that have severe stress, and My gawd....marijuana is by far the greatest stress reliver next to sex. What? Its Illegal? Well would you rather take Depekote, or Paxil, what about Prozac? Have you taken a look at the side effects on these drugs? I suggest you do. People put far to much trust in the FDA. Remember the Phen-Fen ordeal?


Frequent - Prozac (Fluoxetine) Side Effects

Allergic or Toxic: Rash, Pruritus (skin inflammation).
Neurological: Headache, Tremor, Dizziness, Asthenia.
Behavioral: Insomnia, Anxiety, Nervousness, Agitation, Abnormal dreams, Drowsiness and fatigue.
Autonomic: Excessive sweating
Gastrointestinal: Nausea, Disturbances of appetite, Diarrhea.
Respiratory: Bronchitis, Rhinitis (inflammation of the nasal mucous membranes), Yawn.
Endocrine: Weight loss.
Musculoskeletal: Muscle pain, Back pain, Joint pain.
Urogenital: Painful menstruation, Sexual dysfunction, Urinary tract infection, Frequent micturition.
Miscellaneous: Chills

To name a few......

What about the RITALIN scandal?
They're giving these amphetamines
to kids without any real knowledge
of what it does to you emotionally.

I've used amphetamines and I know
they can cause depression and
psychosis.

Iwish we could feed this stuff to the
doctors so they could a clue about
how it makes you feel.

When they prescribe it, it is medication
but when you prescribe it to yourself, it
becomes dope.
:cool:

i must agree...i mean i dont want to sound full of myself, but i consider myself to be of fairly high inteligence(definatly way above most people i know). the mere fact that i enjoy smoking a litle marijuana once in a while(usually a long while) does not effect me in any visible way, other than relaxing a bit and sitting arround giggling and eating for a while(heh).

on the other hand, i do love that my apearance looks so much like a typical burn-out compaired to all the "trendy" idiots my age(OMG! YOU MEAN YOUR 19 AND HAVE LONG HAIR AND A BEARD?!?!?!), then when sombody talks to me i am just about as oposite as one could get from a burn-out. its fun to mess with people's expectations :-D

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Originally posted here by rcgreen
What about the RITALIN scandal?
They're giving these amphetamines
to kids without any real knowledge
of what it does to you emotionally.

I've used amphetamines and I know
they can cause depression and
psychosis.

Iwish we could feed this stuff to the
doctors so they could a clue about
how it makes you feel.

When they prescribe it, it is medication
but when you prescribe it to yourself, it
becomes dope.
:cool:

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In Holland Ritaline has been proven to have the same effects as coke, just grind the pills into powder and you're ready to go.

if you really want to do something, do it. There’s no reason i can see why you have to explain your actions to anyone. unless of course, that’s why you do it.

im glad the sale of drugs is illegal, although I don’t think their use should be a crime. if they weren’t illegal to sell, many of us wouldn't make it. The way it is now, if you get yourself strung out, you can change people, places and things and somehow manage to get yourself straightened out. if they were readily available there’d be no way to stop.

You can ask,what does this have to do with smoking pot but let me ask you, would you have considered dropping acid before you ever smoked pot? You must know most street acid contains speed, and I know from 1st hand experience Houston is like the crank capitol of the world. Not to mention Mexican brown. Know any speed freaks?

Yeah, I used to go to alot of Rave Parties, so yes I knew alot of speed freaks, acid heads, and a few junkies aswell. To answer your other question, No I didnt even think about dropping acid before I smoked pot. But I'll tell you like this. I never concidered smoking pot before I got drunk with my cousin. And prior to that, I would have never conciedered drinking before I smoked a cigarette. So I think if our Government was so concerned with "gateway drugs" they wouldnt spoon feed them to us our whole life, through media, advertising, and social pressures.

personally i don't think its a governments place to be concerned with gateway drugs, these are all personal choices. all im saying is be careful, one thing can lead to another. if you catch a jones, you can shake the drugs but it'll be with ya everyday of your life. your a nice guy and id hate to see that happen to you.

well no i wouldnt have considered droping acid before i smoked pot, but i also wouldnt do it now. i tried 1 "hard" drug once, and that was enough for me to know that its just not for me. thats right, 1 hit of E was plenty to show me i didnt need to touch ANY hard drugs...besides, the whole "seeing things that arent there" thing never really apealed to me. i really think the whole "gateway drug" arguement is quite flawed.

Until something like that becomes 'legal' and doctors are prescribing it for you, people are going to look at you that way. It's like rcgreen said: when they prescribe it, it's medication, when you prescribe to it, it's dope. It's by no means a judge of intellect, can't fry any more braincells or whatnot than one too many drinks. But the raving drunk is more acceptable than is the high dude.

If it were as common as alcohol and everyone had it, it wouldn't be looked at like that.

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Meaning a Dr will perscribe you a drug for whatever is wrong.Well we have people that have severe stress, and My gawd....marijuana is by far the greatest stress reliver next to sex. What? Its Illegal? Well would you rather take Depekote, or Paxil, what about Prozac?

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Now I'm pissed off.

I take Paxil on a daily basis, and I would like to explain to those of you who are interested in facts what it does, and why it is necessary for some of us to take this drug.

It is an SSRI, which for those of you who don't know (Dr Toker) is a selective seretonin reuptake inhibitor. What this means is that my body creates WAY too much seretonin. I can't control that. The effects of this are feelings of extreme and uncontrollable fear, anxiety, and depression. It is a debilitating illness in some, and a pain in the butt to others. The effects of this are numerous, and vary from person to person. Some of them are : heart palpitations, extreme sweating, inability to complete daily tasks, difficulty breathing, shaking, nausea, the inability to leave your home, suicidal thoughts and many other symptoms. It is used to treat depression, GAD, SAD, OCD, and panic attacks.

Some of you may be lucky enough never to have experienced any of these things in your life. However, not everyone is that lucky. There is no difference in the fact that my body makes too much seretonin than in those who have diabetes, and have to take a pill to control their insulin, or people with high blood pressure who have to take a pill to control that. It's not "stress" that I suffer from, nor is it something recreational drug use has any effect on, except perhaps to worsen the symptoms.

Please do not compare my illness and need for medication with your illicit drug use. You make your decisions on what to do, and that's fine. But don't make yourself feel better by comparing your drug use to my illness.

If you would like more information on this medicine, or any of these disorders:

http://www.paxil.com/

http://www.paxil.com/ocd/oc_ln.html

http://www.ocfoundation.org/

http://www.adaa.org/

http://www.freedomfromfear.com/

Deb :mad:

don't get all bent outashape 8*B@LL, i didn't say mj smoking leads to taking stronger drugs. i just wanted to point out to the dr, after reading some of his other posts, that HE sould be careful, thats all. most pot smokers only smoke pot, never go on to anything stronger, but they can.

I take Paxil for panic attacks myself. Most of the side effects are gone after it's regulated. It doesn't work for everyone, but it works for me. I am so thankful for it. I don't want to go back to be afraid that I was going to die because I couldn't breathe and my throat felt as if it were closing for no reason at all....

*hugs debwalin* I definitely hear ya on that.

I would like to say thanks to Greek Goddess, and the others of you who have privately given your support.

/me hugs all of you back!

Deb :D

Tokes got a good point though, 'self medicating' w/ cheba comes w/ few side effects compared to some of the drugs out there. People get all 'freaked' cause when they hear the word 'reefer' they automatically think of a dumbass stoner and illicit drug user. I know quite a few white collar professional type people who have been smoking mj or hash for dozens of years. . .all things in moderation. . .something some docs should think of when they perscribe meds to kids, I don't think it's cool to be able to walk into a Kindergarten room and see little tykes practically drooling on themselves theyre so stoned out on meds, cuase the teaches and and 'dults don't wannna have to mess w/ a 'hyperactive' kid.

Mj should be legalized. according to some of the latest polls the majority of the people agree. But, this has nothing at all to do with medical bad practices.

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Originally posted here by debwalin
Please do not compare my illness and need for medication with your illicit drug use. You make your decisions on what to do, and that's fine. But don't make yourself feel better by comparing your drug use to my illness.

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...he didnt say it had something to do with your illness or any other illness. he was comparing the stress release with some drugs and mj. now, the reason he said the whole "would you rather be taking" is that many drugs perscribed for depression also have some wierd side-effects. i know people who've taken them and every one of them and most of them didnt like taking them because it seemed to change their personality...make them feel like they werent being themselves. i mean, yes you take it for a valid reason, but when it comes down to it do we really know as much as we should to be ****ing arround with chemical levels in your brain to that degree?

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If you would like more information on this medicine, or any of these disorders:

http://www.paxil.com/

http://www.paxil.com/ocd/oc_ln.html

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ok now i left off the ones about the disorders, but look at these two. they are on the PAXIL website. i would hardly count them as good sources for information on the drug they are trying to sell. i mean they have a financial intrest in making people think their drug is safe and effective(keep in mind that i am NOT saying that it isnt safe or effective, as i dont know nearly enough to say that). when you're on th market for a video card or modem or whatever PC component you want, do you just take the word of the components manufacturer? i doubt it, and i would really put this in the same relative catagory.

oh, and i wasnt being upset or anything about the gateway drug issue, just speaking my mind. i guess i come off as angry pretty often here, as thats gotta be the 3rd or 4th time i've been told to calm down or equivalent here. anyway, THIS JUST IN:

a new study has shown that 100% of so-called "hard" drug users began with the same thing before moving on to hard drugs. this one thing was breathing, and as such is a gateway to drug use and has been outlawed. thankyou, come again. :-D

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Originally posted here by debwalin


It is an SSRI, which for those of you who don't know (Dr Toker) is a selective seretonin reuptake inhibitor. What this means is that my body creates WAY too much seretonin. I can't control that.

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That's also a side effect of ecstacy. I'm not saying you're a pill popper (although I've been known to partake in the odd pill or two! ;) )


Check out this link on alcohol abuse....

right guys i think this discussion is about over, yes!?!?
this is an issue often discussed in cosmos and personnaly I think that it will never be resolved......but it seems for some that the direction this debate is taking is cutting a lil too close to home for some of us.....am not trying to limit anyones freedom of speech or anything...I just think that all that can be said on this issue has been and that now would be a good time to drop it...I hope everyone agrees and even if they don't they'll keep their comments to themselves or PM as a mark of respect/friendship for some of the other members here at AO.....

v_Ln

Why does it need to be legallized anyway? Just buy your bag, smoke it in privacy and stop complaining that you couldn't buy it at the 24-hour mart down the road. And if it really bugs ya, go to Holland, sit in a coffee shop, and get a little smoky there.

Well, personally the thing that pisses me off is the fact that once you start doing pot you are considered a bit of a drugy. I got passed over for two jobs because I did pot within a year of the interview, but keep in mind the number of times I smoked up could be counted on one hand! Granted these were federal agencies, but what makes me so much worst than the guy or girl who goes to the bar after work and gets plastered? For some reason alcohol is so much more acceptable, and it especially bothers me when my friends who drink look down upon those who smoke, as if the way they are killing their bodies is that much better.

And as far as being happy with it being illegal, I think that is non-sense. Would you be happy if you had to find your alcohol by meeting in shady locations with shady people that you've probably barely ever met before? Or would you be happy if a cop pulls you over and because you look like you are 21, they pull you out of the car and search the entire car for alcohol bottles (unopened ones), just so they can throw you in jail? And what if you were carrying a keg to a party...oh you are in trouble now, cause there is so much there that it is intent to sell, so you are going to prison for a while buddy. Think about that, and then you'll realize just how messed up the difference, or lack thereof, between pot and alcohol is in the United States.

Regards,
Wizeman

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That's also a side effect of ecstacy. I'm not saying you're a pill popper (although I've been known to partake in the odd pill or two! )

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You're right, it is, and some people who are now suffering from this are people who have indulged in the past. It's like an alcoholic suffering from liver damage. What's done is done, and I'm not going to comment on that part of it, because that goes into what Dr Toker was originally saying, each person makes their own decisions about what they do. I have never taken ecstasy, so that's not where my problem came from. But you are exactly right, and for that reason I would urge people to avoid it, because the possible lifetime after effects SUCK!!!
It's bad enough to deal with being like this...if I thought I had done it to myself...AARGH! I don't know what I would do....lol.

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ok now i left off the ones about the disorders, but look at these two. they are on the PAXIL website. i would hardly count them as good sources for information on the drug they are trying to sell.

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The reason I included these sites is because there is a good explanation of the chemical workings of the drug there. Yes, there are quite a few side effects from Paxil....I went round and round with it for a couple of weeks, and I was sick as crap from it. BUT...and it all depends on the person....I feel wonderful now. I am able to do things I wasn't able to do before, and I don't want to go into a whole long poor me spiel right now, but it has made a major improvement in my life and my family's.

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(keep in mind that i am NOT saying that it isnt safe or effective, as i dont know nearly enough to say that).

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I'm REALLY not trying to sound like a bitch here....but that is exactly why I made my post and posted those links. The illnesses and medications used to treat them are really not understood by most folks, and there is a HUGE stigma behind using anti-depressant and anti-anxiety medications. A lot of people get the idea that there is something fundamentally "wrong " with a person who needs to take these medications, and there isn't. That is also why I chose to talk about something that is fairly uncomfortable for me to talk about. I feel like I have made some friends here, and that I am generally accepted as a "normal" girl, and that I'm not some sort of whacko. It's important that people understand the reason behind needing these drugs, and I wanted to speak up a little. That's why the original post made me so angry...it was like the suggestion was being made that there's really no need for these medications...just go get high. You guys suffer the stereotype of a lifestyle and choices that you make. I suffer the stereotype of a medication I HAVE to take.

Valhallen....big hugs for you sweetheart...You are a great person!

Deb :D

This conversation got off in this direction
when I began ranting about Ritalin.
My main complaint is that it seems to be
over-prescribed, and I'm not the only one
who thinks so.

The other issue is that these are children,
and it is so much harder to assess the effects
on children.

An adult can tell the doctor "hey, I don't
like the way it makes me feel", and the doctor
can adjust your dosage, or try something else.
Also, as an adult, you sought help from your
physician to help you feel better because
you knew you felt bad, but with kids
on Ritalin, it is often prescribed because, in the
opinion of teachers or school admins, the child
appears to have a problem in his behavior

It wasn't that long ago when there were no anti-depressant
or anti-anxiety drugs, and people were just allowed to
suffer, but if they're available, and they work,
by all means use them.
:cool:

RCGreen: Mood: worried
Reason: my big mouth will get me into trouble

LOL!!

Deb :D

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For some reason alcohol is so much more acceptable
---------------------

how about the fact that its legal.

some people, for some strange reason, just don't like to get arrested and have black marks on their record. if your driving in the company of someone and for some/any reason the cops pull you over and find a bag of pot on this guy/girl you all can go to jail, loose your license, be faced with probation and/or pay a fine. it all just depends on how big an ass-hole the cop wants to be. and their are some who can be real ass-holes.

you can even be walking or hanging out and get busted for what someone else may have in their pockets.

its guilt by association, they book you for constructive possession. is it any wonder why people who care about their image would rather not have pot heads around. i mean really, is anybody worth that who needs it.

speaking for myself now, i dont care my image is **** anyway. but i understand.

Hey Deb I just wanna let you know that I suffer from a string of mental probelms. I have been diagnosed by multipule doctors as Bi-polar,Manic Depressant, and of course The much spoken about Social Ainxiety Disorder. So , don't get pissy thinking I am one of those "happy people".
I listed those three medications, because I have been perscribed them all. I no-longer take them. I find that my own mental capacity can beat this. Alothough sometimes I do have "Episodes" that could be avoided if I would take my medication. But you know, these episodes can be deterred by simply smoking a joint. I don't really agree with my doctors. I mean, they talked with me for a few weeks, and diagnosed me. WTF. If it is this chemical imbalance that they are talking about, why didnt they give me some sort of chemical test? Or any blood work? They piss tested me, and thats about it.

Excuse me Deb, I never was demeaning your illness, nor was I downsizing the problem. I was speaking from MY experience. Not out of ignorance as your post suggested. I have delt with S.A.D for my whole life it seems. I have always shyed away from large social excursions.(With the exception of the RAVE scean I was involved with for a while.) Which is why I got into computers. All my "freinds" in the neighbor hood would pick on me, I would go home crying, and play with my Packard Bell 386 sx. Eventually I went on into High school, right after my parents divorce mind you. Still being rejected by my peers because of my appearance. Maybe i was asking for it. Wearing a black dress to a predominatly black school will get some 'negative' attention. But still being rejected by society, created a hole for me. I called 'The Darkness'. I wrote alot of prose poetry about this darkness that consumed my very being.I began hating my self and everyone else. Soon after that I was secretly cutting my self, and writing even more twisted poetry. Later, my very concerned, single mother notices cuts on my arms one night when I was changing shirts. The next day I was commited to Cypress Creek Hospital. June-1998. Hence the Beginning of my Drug habit. It started with Depekote. And ended with Marijuana.

Sorry to lay this on all of you, its just that Debwalin was acting like she was a 'special' case cause she has mental illness. Well, Deb, Me too.

BTW Tedob1, Great point WAY on topic.

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Why does it need to be legallized anyway?

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Because I should be able to smoke a joint with out being locked up like an animal. I should be able to sit on my front porch and hit the bong with out looking over my shoulder. There's many reasons why it should be legalized. Why shouldn't it be? I think pot should be sold over the counter just like a pack of smokes. Do you know what's in cigarettes? 599 mind boggling chemicals that destroy your body with every drag you take. See this site for the ingredients that are in cigarettes. Just look it up on Google and see what you come up with when you look for cigarette ingredients and compare it to marijuana.. Now which would you rather smoke?

Remote_Access

I think they're all bad. :D On a more serious note, just because something worse is legal doesn't mean that what's being done is necessarily good because it is better than bad.

Is it just me, or is there a trend now-a-days towards being 'unique' by saying you have some sort of mental disorders? (I'm not saying anyone here is being insincere.)

It seems to me like everyone has mental disorders, there is only a difference in degree which can be extremely fuzzy... makes me think of One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.

I'm not ranting...I promise!

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Is it just me, or is there a trend now-a-days towards being 'unique' by saying you have some sort of mental disorders? (I'm not saying anyone here is being insincere.)

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I think that my point is that I'm not unique. There are a lot more of us than most people would think...lol. I think it's just gotten to the point where a lot more people are talking about it than before, because we're tired of being "in the closet" so to speak. It is an illness like others, and I think it's just that people are tired of being stereotyped as a "psycho" or something else silly because they take an anti-depressant. Granted there are those who think they are cool because of it, but I think the majority of us have just had to find a way to live our lives as well as we can. I have a wonderful, normal life....NOW. I didn't before...lol! It has really been a blessing to me to find a medication that makes me be able to do things other mommies and wives can do.
I think that part of the thing that is happening now is that there is more publicity of all types. Both in news articles, and in television advertising. It wasn't that long ago that you never saw an ad on TV for anti-depressants (or Viagra...but that's a whole different subject there...LMAO.) And there is a lot of coverage in media and in print of people who have these disorders talking about it for the first time. When you see someone famous on TV who has the nerve to talk about it, you start to think maybe you should do your part to take away some of the mystery.

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It seems to me like everyone has mental disorders, there is only a difference in degree which can be extremely fuzzy... makes me think of One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.

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I don't think I'm ready for Nurse Ratchett yet...lol. But you are right in a way. A lot of people suffer from some sort of mental disorder. And there are different types, and different extremes. I have never been ready for the psych ward anywhere.....but I probably will take Pazil or something like it for the rest of my life. But there are people who manage their illnesses lots of different ways. Dr Toker and I have discussed the different ways we handle ours, and there are lots of people who do it with therapy alone, or a combination, or people who never seek treatment...which I think is sad. I don't think there is any point in living an unhappy life if you don't have to, when for a lot of people it is a matter of a chemical imbalance which can be taken care of with one little pill a day.....

Just my .02!

Deb :D

i smoke weed 2 i think it brodens u r concentration

Acctually Prodikal Marijuana lowers your concentration. It effects your memory in many different ways. Take a look....


Researchers have found that THC changes the way in which sensory information gets into and is processed by the hippocampus. The hippocampus is a component of the brain's limbic system that is crucial for learning, memory, and the integration of sensory experiences with emotions and motivations. Investigations have shown that neurons in the information processing system of the hippocampus and the activity of the nerve fibers in this region are suppressed by THC. In addition, researchers have discovered that learned behaviors, which depend on the hippocampus, also deteriorate via this mechanism.

Recent research findings also indicate that long-term use of marijuana produces changes in the brain similar to those seen after long-term use of other major drugs of abuse.
http://www.personalhealthzone.com/ma...deeffects.html


The following are some of the common side effects of using marijuana:

Trouble remembering things
Sleepiness
Anxiety
Paranoia (feeling that people are “out to get you”)
Altered time perception


Figured i should post this since I was ranting about Prozaks side effects....