The Not-So accidental death of a newbie

ah let's say all newbie members are not as lucky as ntsa , take me for an example, i dont remember flaming anyone, or posting any thread that encouraged it, and until my last post, everybody was giving positive antipoints on me, cuz they said i was informative ...
as soon i posted this antipoint post, they bloody got on to me, i dont understand how this could be so offensive to these brats, i just dont. When i login, they tell me that , antionline members, as a collective ( to my surprise ), have decided that i am being a pain in their ass, what the ****. I dont understand how or why, and that very moment i decided that this site consists of nothing more than over-enthusiastic idiots, and that's all.
Then they tell me

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--------Don't worry, you still have a chance to redeem yourself! Start posting useful threads. Help answer people's questions--------,

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My ass, i didnt join this site to help people, **** antipoints, i joined the site to help myself enhance my knowledge, still ive been giving information, and that's not the point, and i dont understand on how one post can change all that, im not supposed to go through every damn post in the general chit chat and know that this has been posted before, if simply enough, it has, delete the post and give me a polite message, the end of it. But what the hell, when i read the message, and now ive decided that this website is nothing that i thought it was.

Well, anyway, thanks to all the people that have been nice to me
No more of myself here
Good-Bye

Whoa...i have to half agree with this guy. The anti-point system has gone a bit out of hand. Personally i think it's useless, but hey! What other point system is there?

christ, ive got a few anti points (only cos i asked if there was a... o no better not say it again) and i'm not shitting myself and anyway if everybody only came here to get help and not give any what kindda community would that be? yeah well some people (like myself) are better off not giving out to much help cos they cant but hey **** happens.

i am new to this AO stuff but have made 24 posts now ! relating to linux,filesystems etc and thought i was helping people out? OK i havee asked where there is 2600 meetings because i thought that 2600, hacking etc was a security issue ! apparently not as all i keep getting is negative antipoints man ! I came here to learn and hopefully help others as well as meet people and convers ! apparently htis is not how it is here ! there is alot of anti-hackers here ! Correct me if im wrong but what is wrong with hackers and hacking ! Look up the term hacker people ! It is about learning unrelentlessly about everything ! If you are talking black hat hackers and crackers then yes i see the point but dont tar every one with the same brush ! this site is about IT security remember which as far as i know is related closely to hacking and hackers, doh ! I am anewbie hacker and proud of it, i am not black hat or a cracker but want to know and learn everything about it security issues and such like ! stop being anti hacer etc and learn what the term really means, we have the media for giving things a bad name without the security industry contributing as well !
thankyou

I'm got the same message becuase I like to jump into controversial threads.

too bad JP, i never expected this sort of a approach.

Also to be noted is the fact, that mostly newbies are targeted, too bad.
i agree with you - cheers geepod !

Mairu the reason you got negs is very simple........your lazy!
you posted YET ANOTHER antipoints post asking for the system to be changed
your post
but if you had taken a second to do a quick search of the forums you would have seen that that topic has been talked to death!!!
Everyone is sick of hearing whiney lil biatches like you go on about their Antipoint status! Does it really matter that much!?!?!? Do you have such low self-estem that you need reasurance from people you have never met that your a good person!?
Get over it, get a life & most importantly get off these boards if all your gonna do is whine about Antipoints!!

Try typing antipoints into the forum search.....14 seperate posts with the word antipoints in the title.....doesn't seem like much? yeah well when you consider that if you seach post bodies the count goes up to 114!!!! Which i would estimate 90% of them are from kiddies like you bitchin' about some form of unfair treatment!

In the words of souleman

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The Name giver will NOT be given out.
The System will NOT be changed.
This thread WILL be closed very soon.

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Now stop wasting JP's server space and bandwith with a topic that has been talked about over & over & over & over ((repeat to fade))

v_Ln

I thought antipoints were supposed to be for fun and so people could show there dislike for other posts. I think it was stupid to make it soo serious.

newbies are not targets at AO... first, let me clear the air on that. the reasons newbies get flamed is because they do not read the newbie faq found in the faq section at ao. many people here do not like to be bothered with questions about how to do illegal things. they also do not like to be bothered with questions that can be simply answered by going to google and searching. second there have been many flames directed at non-new members as well.

second, mairu---> the reason you got negative antipoints for you thread about antipoints is prolly because this suggestion of yours was brought up so many times and that the answer was always the same (a resounding no from JP). some users at ao don't like when people don't use a search to find if the suggestion was already posted. had you searched you would have found that this suggestion was sufficiently exhausted. i don't think it is that big of a crime, but there are people who do think that. (and i must say that it can be bothersome when you go to the front page and click on links to find topics that have been discussed numerous times. esp having been at ao for more then a few months.)

finally, this is just a note to all the people that are really concerned about the antipoints system. Antipoints really don't mean much... unless you get over negative 200, antipoints have no effect or bearing on your time here at ao. i mean, it is always nice to get green points (gives you that warm fuzzy feeling.) but really it doesn't mean too much.

i am sorry if your stay here at ao has not been pleasurable, butmost of the people at ao are not idiots. many of them are actually quite intelligent and very helpful... the only problem that i have ever seen is a low tolerance for people who ask dumb questions or don't search the threads. (or know how to use google). i hope that this helps you understand why things happened the way they did

OOh, JP hates these "farewell" posts. mairu, expect to be banned!

Just to get my 2 cents in before this thread closes - shouldn't be long now Jethro ;) :

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ah let's say all newbie members are not as lucky as ntsa

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You know it's funny - the more people I help and the more tutorials I write the luckier I seem to get. Up until last night I /was/ a n00b and, as I think I said in a recent post (of a fairly similar title), IMO this is probably the best community on the net today - but community is a two way thing. Don't expect to reap more than you contribute.

Remember that courtesey and politeness (both freely availible under a GNU style licence :)) also go a long way here. Don't type using 1am37 speak, don't post to a forum until you have read it's FAQ twice and don't use unnececary profanity. Re-read everything you intend to post _at least_ three times.

And most important of all, however '1337' you consider yourself to be, remember to bring a little humility with you when you visit AO - there are some _/really/_ bright folks here.

Reasons why n00bs and oldtimers get negs.

n00bs get them because:
1. They post stupid how do I hack (insert AIM, Hotmail etc.. service here) threads.
2. They come in and become posting whores, and post usless crap.
3. Illegal crap like. I want to fu#% up my girlfriends puter because she (whatever).
4. Constantly whine and bitc$# about antipoints or membership status.
5. Ask stupid questions without attempting to do a little research first.

Old timers get them because:
1. Someone has a ligitimate gripe with the post.
2. Some n00b wanting to be an ass.
3. Constructive critcism.

To sum it up. This is the real world. People don't always get along. This is a security site with a lot of proffesionals that know their stuff and newbies that want to learn. They don't want to go through a bunch of worthless posts about antipoints or goodbye whine posts. So get over it. Life is not fair. The more you complain the more you'll get grief. So get over it.

Ways to get along:
1. Post intelligently and think before you post.
2. Be helpfull to all.
3. Don't be a know it all.
4. Don't whine or post useless threads.
6. Treat people like you want to be treated.
7. Contribute to the collective.

Most important though. READ THE FAQ. It will save for some problems in the forums.....

Thats my rant for the week.............Nuff said..............

p2p -

You'd get greens for that summary, but it turns out I have (unsurprisingly, when you think about it) already given you some today :) Oh well - the thought was there ;).

ntsa i got the same dialogue for p2p , good job p2p, any way what r u talking about mairu , newsbies dont get flamedfor no reason im still a newbie i havent gotten flamed and even if u have why dont u think about what u did its not like u posted something GREAT and EVERYONE disapproved maybe u should stop posting worthless crap and get on with it

come on damn it they are just points its not the end of the world
so quit actin liek a bitchand get a real life

tru dat nice one p2p and ruffryder i agree we come here to learn but why post redundant data that has been discussed so many times it g0t tiresome. if u are going to post about something that has been discussed that much, expect negs. oh and jethro i guess it hasnt been closed :/

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Originally posted here by geepod
stop being anti hacer etc and learn what the term really means, we have the media for giving things a bad name without the security industry contributing as well !
thankyou

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hmm... illegitimate generalizations...
The issue about hacker / cracker etc... is / has been discussed many times here at AO.
for instance this thread http://www.antionline.com/showthread...hreadid=133107
or read the ultimate newbie faq by Ennis http://www.antionline.com/showthread...hreadid=218093

You see? Not every one has the same opinion at AO... and that's great!
Mainly, I support the following opinion:
(source: http://tuxedo.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html#WHAT_IS)

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What Is a Hacker?

The Jargon File contains a bunch of definitions of the term `hacker', most having to do with technical adeptness and a delight in solving problems and overcoming limits. If you want to know how to become a hacker, though, only two are really relevant.

There is a community, a shared culture, of expert programmers and networking wizards that traces its history back through decades to the first time-sharing minicomputers and the earliest ARPAnet experiments. The members of this culture originated the term `hacker'. Hackers built the Internet. Hackers made the Unix operating system what it is today. Hackers run Usenet. Hackers make the World Wide Web work. If you are part of this culture, if you have contributed to it and other people in it know who you are and call you a hacker, you're a hacker.

The hacker mind-set is not confined to this software-hacker culture. There are people who apply the hacker attitude to other things, like electronics or music -- actually, you can find it at the highest levels of any science or art. Software hackers recognize these kindred spirits elsewhere and may call them "hackers" too -- and some claim that the hacker nature is really independent of the particular medium the hacker works in. But in the rest of this document we will focus on the skills and attitudes of software hackers, and the traditions of the shared culture that originated the term `hacker'.

There is another group of people who loudly call themselves hackers, but aren't. These are people (mainly adolescent males) who get a kick out of breaking into computers and phreaking the phone system. Real hackers call these people `crackers' and want nothing to do with them. Real hackers mostly think crackers are lazy, irresponsible, and not very bright, and object that being able to break security doesn't make you a hacker any more than being able to hotwire cars makes you an automotive engineer. Unfortunately, many journalists and writers have been fooled into using the word `hacker' to describe crackers; this irritates real hackers no end.

The basic difference is this: hackers build things, crackers break them.

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The definition of being reasonable is to accept that opinions can differ even after a debate between (reasonable) people. ;)

i think..
nothing.. look at yourself.. we should all stay togheter.. not fight eachother...
were not a so big community and if you look how fast the worlds change (today 7 warezsite closed.. stuff like that i mean) we sould really stay together..

cheers angus from switzerland..

hmm ur first post.....sorry to tell ya but we are one if not the biggest online security communities....so that is all :)...

*yawn*