Washington Post Editorial

Maybe the subject no longer seems worth discussing,
but, I like to follow this topic.

Quote:

---

nothing would prevent the president -- even in the absence of a formal declaration of war -- from designating any American as an enemy combatant. Without proving the correctness of the charge before a court, the military could then detain that person forever. And having done so, it could prevent that detainee from hiring a lawyer to argue that the government, in fact, has it all wrong.

---

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2002Jun10.html
:cool:

I think this topic is worth discussing

Holding people without charges then not giving them a trial or a lawyer sounds like something that happens in banana republics and communist states. Just my 2 cents

Agreed. SInce 9/11, it seems anybody that even 1/2 way resembles Middle Eastern or Indian decent is now looked at twice. I do not think it is fair to arrest and hold somebody without rights, including a Lawyer and due process. Case in point, Amnesty News shows just how crazy this has become. I was also trying to find the article where a teen kid running an "anti-government" web site was raided by the FBI and all his stuff was confiscated. It seems to me poeple are starting to think twice as to what is allowed to be said, and to me, that is denying free speech.

Bottom Line: To speak and have opinions, even if it is the controversial policies of Bush (Which some would argue otherwise) and our government (Which tends to nose in where it does not belong) is allowed to do so. To kill others needlessly for any cause is not, and the terrorist acts was one of them... C'mon, let's wake up here. Catch the real criminals; the intelligence community has some technology...

that is unfortunate that the gov't is exploiting 9-11 like that but far from suprising

yea we are slowly evloving into a less free country....lets hope it is for the better(probably isnt)

Well the US has just recently changed/accepted a few laws that would make it possible for the US to invade Holland if we ever tried to convict any US soldiers.
The ppl here are going crazy now as if WWIII is about to break out.

Quote:

---

Originally posted here by Leviatan
Well the US has just recently changed/accepted a few laws that would make it possible for the US to invade Holland if we ever tried to convict any US soldiers.

---

Well there ya go.....the good old US....Leviatan, if you could give me a link to where I can read more on this it would be greatly appreciated.

<rant>Well it looks like Orwell had it right. He was just off a few years. I'm all for security and safety. But, damn it, look at all the Americans that have died on foreign soil just so we can preserve our rights. Now our own government is becoming what our fathers and aforfathers fought and died for. Rights are our most basic freedom, it's what seperates us from countries that control what you do, think and say. The laws with their checks and balances were put in place to keep our goverment for the PEOPLE and by the PEOPLE. Not for the president and the military. I have served my country and would gladly fight for and die for my country but not if it's going to become a police state. We are supposed to be the model of democracy. If we continue like this, such as holding people without representation. Every little dictatorship in the world will use this to justify their actions. I agree something should be done to combat terrorist and terrorism. But, DON"T TAKE AWAY OUR RIGHTS. Thats what formed this country to begin with....................</rant>

Ok I've searched for a English version but all I could come up with whas this parody, offcourse what it says isn't happening but it's speculating on what if it did and what this law actually is about.

http://www.staatsgeheim.com/bush/index.html

---------------------------
Well the US has just recently changed/accepted a few laws that would make it possible for the US to invade Holland if we ever tried to convict any US soldiers.
---------------------------

bush told the world court to Fµ¢K ØFF. one of the few good things that he's done. nobody's made any threats to holland or anybody else, its just that our policy stays the way it has been. its always been such, that the us can invade any country that detains us citizens. this dosn't mean ****.

this is the (would be) new world order making noise threw holland. piss on a one world government.

Abdullah al Muhajir is actually Jose Padilla, born in brooklyn. Him being detained has nothing to do with his ethnicity, he planned to detonate a 'dirty bomb' in washington, a device designed to hamper rescue efforts by covering the blast area with radioactive debris. the way he's being held is nothing new, the man is a traitor.

this is not the threat to freedom. ill bet echelon or carnivor had nothing to do with his capture. our privacy is being invaded every day, our government it siding with big buisness against us.

and now we have the 'dept of homeland security' dimbulbs looking out for us. this will be as effective as the rest of their projects.

dept of labor. has not created any jobs

dept of education - SAT scores have droped since its inception

Dept of houseing - has created slums

Dept of national security - i shudder to think of it. 170,000 plus people in it. 169,999 plus places to pass the buck when something goes wrong.

no defense, just another step closer to a police state.

Quote:

---

Abdullah al Muhajir is actually Jose Padilla, born in brooklyn. Him being detained has nothing to do with his ethnicity, he planned to detonate a 'dirty bomb' in washington, a device designed to hamper rescue efforts by covering the blast area with radioactive debris. the way he's being held is nothing new, the man is a traitor.

---

I understand your point, but even mass murderers get represented. Does that mean he is too special not to have it? Also, the Amnesty article does show that more and more Americans are being held and are getting denied human rights in the name of national security. It sucks all the way around.

mass murderers are what we're dealing with, and for the moment is may be in the interest of national security, or more to the truth, to save my own ass, to get every bit of info we can out of this guy before scum bag publicity seeking legal types get ahold of him.

when they do find out all there is, they can use him for chum.

American citizens arn't being detained, its those with phony, expired or no passports that are being held and then only if they're under suspicion and more needs to be found out about them.

Yeah it sucks, but what would you do.

they're the enemy, they want to kill us....****'um

Like I said, I understand your point, and there is nothing I can do. This guy got arrested. I guess it sucks to be him. >shrug<

I'm intrigued as to how they found out...he was just "exploring the possibility", so he idn't have a bomb, specific plans, or even the materials needed. I guess carnivore/DSC100 has been busy...

Actually I have seen several news articles since 9-11 about Americans of Middle Eastern descent being held indefinitely by the US govt. No charges, no known date of release, they are just hanging out in prison because they had the misfortune to be living in America after 9-11. I'm looking for links.

Deb :D

Quote:

---

Originally posted here by debwalin
Actually I have seen several news articles since 9-11 about Americans of Middle Eastern descent being held indefinitely by the US govt. No charges, no known date of release, they are just hanging out in prison because they had the misfortune to be living in America after 9-11. I'm looking for links.

Deb :D

---

Yeah, I've seen those, to see some of them check out the December 10th, 2001 issue of Newsweek. In that magazine it has several accounts of Americans of Middle Eastern descent being held for weeks without being charged for anything, just for traveling after September 11th and being of Middle Eastern descent.

this really stinks the US is becoming a lot like a semi socialist country....not orwellish but jsut as bad in my eyes....and yes i guess dragonware suite(carnivore and a few other tools) is hard at work

IMO a few people of arab decent held for a few weeks is to be expected after what happened. I know i wouldn't be taking it so lightly if i happened to be one of them, but its not the atrocity some (news sources) would like to make of it.
it only serves as smoke and mirrors for the real attacks on our rights.

So no imprisonment without charges isn't an important right, in your opinion?