The Myth of Mercy Killing

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Over the past several decades, America has witnessed a strange and subtle shift in how society views life. In the 1960s, the shift began as some states began to remove the criminal penalties for abortion. In the 1970s, the U.S. Supreme Court Roe v. Wade decision put the federal government’s stamp of approval on abortion nationwide. Today, the value of life is being obscured at the other end of the spectrum as courts grant the elderly and sick the so-called “right to die.” [read the full length article here]

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I found this article while searching for something similar

It goes on as any other debate article would until you come to this:

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In A Sign For Cain, the eminent Dr. Fredric Wertham documented exhaustively the physician-sponsored mass murder of civilians in pre-World War II Germany. Well before they were dismantled and moved to the concentration camps, gas chambers were installed in six leading psychiatric hospitals. Under the guise of “help for the dying,” “mercy killings,” and “destruction of life devoid of value,” university professors of psychiatry, hospital directors and their staff members systematically exterminated hundreds of thousands of “superfluous people”—mental patients, the elderly, and sick and handicapped children. Criteria for such “undesirables” included “useless eaters,” the unfit, unproductive and misfit.

Wertham stressed the concept of “life not worth living” was not a Nazi invention. As early as the 1920s, respected physicians wrote about “absolutely worthless human beings” and the urgently necessary “killing of those who cannot be rescued.” In fact, even in 1895, a widely used German medical textbook advocated the “right to death.”

However, in 1939, a note from Adolf Hitler to his own private doctor and chancellery officials extended “the authority of physicians” so that “a mercy death may be granted to patients who according to human judgment are incurably ill.” Nearly the same language has been used in the various “right to die” decisions of America’s high courts.

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I would like to read other's thoughts on this article, as this specific excerpt troubles me immensely...

Well I can only give you my twist cause I was around during Roe Wade. It was a question of choice of a woman have a right to choose reproduction. How they deal with their choice is theirs. As for the death camps this was not a choice it was imposed as upsetting as both are they are in now ways the same. As for the right to die, well again faced with modern medical things it really is about quality of life. I lost my father 3 months ago a massiave brain hemorage went quick. I got to him within 24 hrs and machines kept him alive why? Was his wish, not to prolong his life but to preserve his organs for dionation. So we all said good bye and the plug was pulled, and two people got one kidney each, his liver split into to two others, parts of his skin to burn cases, and the gift of sight to another. In short he kept his quality of life to his death, we did not preserve a body cause we could not let go. Faced with some moder medical things and getting older myself I would in many cases refuse treatment becaue while I may live I would not have a quality of life that would make me happy. Hope this helps sort stuff out.

To draw comparison's is ludricous. Although Bush may seem like Hitler sometimes, he's definitely not going for the same ends.

Sorry Korp I was about when his daddy was pres and well highlight what the spelling of patato patatoe thing LOL. Thousands point of light was his daddy's catch all phrase and the answer to that was who is going to be the dim light bulb? I support fully all his efforts as this is what I must do agree with all of them I do not. Because I may oppose some of his views it has not will not ever mean I do not support his efforts. In short I respect him his effort the armed forces and what they do fully, I simply say I believe their may be other options. I pay my taxes don't lol do creative bookkeeping lots of stuff is wrong right now. Thing is being man or woman enough to devote time and effort to change it not break it more. I compare nothing I look to the past and see it repeat it's self the past is that, today is, tomorrow becomes today. History is just a day you live and live enough of them ya get old say been there done that did not work. Same ends nope but then the end should never justify the means.

Mercy killing, a very controversial subject.

My opinions on mercy killing, I don't think that a comparison between choosing to not prolong life and actually taking a life, whether your own or assisting someone else, is realistic. They are not the same thing.

Taking a life is taking a life. Prolonging a life by artificial means is a choice that everyone should definately have. If the artificial means weren't there, obviously the person would die, so it stands to reason that the choice should be that person's.

As for mercy killing, I don't think it is right, mainly because who draws the line when killing becomes mercy not murder? Who decides? What if someone makes that choice for you, and you are unable to say "no I am not ready, you don't understand" ?

Take for example a case here where a father "assisted" his daughter's death because she was extremely retarded and unable to care for herself and her "quality" of life was non-exsistant. He is in jail right now. Read about it http://www.acl.on.ca/news/latimer98nov.html

I don't know how anyone could determine that her life was not worth living. Playing God whether you believe in him or not is not mercy. Choosing not to prolong a life near death is a choice, not mercy.

Just my humble opinion.

Hell is full of good intentions and desires.
Saint Bernard of Clairvaux (1091-1153)

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Originally posted here by zepherin
Hell is full of good intentions and desires.
Saint Bernard of Clairvaux (1091-1153)

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if i'm not mistaken that quote should read "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

Try doing a GOOGLE search on "eugenics movement"
It's mind blowing
:cool:

I have to say, I do agree with the idea that the ability to choose to end your life is the ultimate right that you have. I also think this article is typical of the christian "my morals are everyone morals" attitude that I see. What is wrong with letting people make there own choices, and if they are wrong then let them go to hell? why not let me go to hell if I so choose?

This is not directed at anyone, but at the personal experience I have had with Chistian leaders from the more radical/fundamentalist side...

Just my own opinion...

hmmmmm, well i want a job as a game control warden....... escentualy my job will be to hunt down the gimpy and un desirable animals so that the good strong animals will have even better chances of reproducing........ hmmmmmm when i say it just like that it does sound alittle bit.......... repeditive. but its just helping out natural selection. as cor abortion, im not saying anyting on that, but killing off things that do nothing but drag down everything else and slow down progression, that just makes sence to me to speed along natural selection...... make everything better for the world later......... when you start to move from the animal world to humans, again, im not gonna say a whole lot here, cause of its extream controversy and, hey, i dont have enuf experiance with death (and hopefully never will) to get my own solid oppinions on it other than that if someone wants to die and they have nothing left, kinda end of the rope, let em.......

here come the negs........ i can feel them now

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Originally posted here by 8*B@LL


if i'm not mistaken that quote should read "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

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That was never part of the original quote:

(Samuel) Johnson said something close, but he was following in others' footsteps. In Boswell's Life of Johnson, in an entry marked April 16, 1775, Boswell quotes Johnson as saying (on some other occasion), "Hell is paved with good intentions." Note, no prefatory "the road to..." Boswell's editor, Malone, added a footnote indicating this is a 'proverbial sentence,' and quoting an earlier 1651 source (yet still not in the common wording).

Robert Wilson, in the newsgroup alt.quotations, provided two other sources prior to Johnson. John Ray, in 1670, cited as a proverb "Hell is paved with good intentions." Even earlier than that, it's been attributed to Saint Bernard of Clairvaux (1091-1153), as "Hell is full of good intentions or desires." Just how it got to the road to Hell being paved this way, and not Hell itself, I don't know.

http://www.samueljohnson.com/apocryph.html#6

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I also think this article is typical of the christian "my morals are everyone morals" attitude that I see. What is wrong with letting people make there own choices, and if they are wrong then let them go to hell? why not let me go to hell if I so choose?

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jcmcb,

I think the rationale behind the type of attitude that you're criticising here is that
1) They believe they are right, and that their morals are sound
2) They believe it is God's command that they act out of love for mankind [see 10 Commandments]
3) They confuse these two along the way, and feel that if they know something to be good and right, they should cause everyone else to live by these standards, so that they can experience a full and rewarding life

In conclusion, they believe that they are acting with the interests of others at heart, they just get it very wrong. And then again, wasn't Hitler acting with the interests of others at heart? But then if you believe something to be right, surely you are duty bound to endorse that, as a matter of integrity? I'm not saying I condone the whole 'there is only ONE way, OUR way' attitude at all, just offering an explanation for better understanding.

In a way the same goes for the subject of the thread; I think it's terrible that people can think of killing as acceptable, but conversely those who do it probably believe they are right, therefore the motivation was pure. How do you judge it? The act or the intention? Road to hell again I suppose...

XXX

I do not like that, it's like playing God.....

Greetings All:

This is an issue very close to me.

All through-out high school I volunteered at the local Geriatric Center (a publicly funded nursing home). My job, basically, was to sit with people that were dying, that had no family or friends near-by (or at all). By the time I stopped (shortly after the death of a woman that was particularly difficult to watch, and for me to deal with), I had logged well over 1,000 hours.

I think anyone that opposes the "Right To Die" movement should spend some time in one of these places. Death isn't always (and from my experience, almost always isn't) the calm, peaceful, "spiritual" experience that they portray it as on TV. Usually, it's a long, drawn-out, and painful process, filled with fear and suffering. Watching people struggle for each breath as they're coughing up blood, with that look on their face (the expression on someone's face when they know they are dying, is like none-other), is something that I think would change most people's minds.

Why should we, as a society, force people that have lived lives full of dignity to go through such suffering?

I'm sure that Christians will start with their load of "god will take them when it's time" bullshit (personally, I'm an atheist). Trust me, if there is a god, he's not there helping to comfort and ease the suffering of people going through a 3 week long dying process from lung cancer, or heart failure.

In the end, no matter how good of a life you've lived, no matter how many people love you, no matter how many friends and family members you have, no matter how "faithful you've been to god", you alone have to bare that pain and suffering. Therefore, you alone should be able to decide if that's something you want to leave up to "god", or if it's something that you want to be able to take control over.

IMHO Right To Die and Mercy Killings are two entirely different things.

My grandfather had lung cancer and when it was near the end for him, when his lungs only functioned 5%, every breath was torture, I prayed for him to go (not to God, just prayed). A friend is currently dying of cancer, she was just moved to the pallative ward at the hospital. She is only 35 years old and suffering more than a lifetime's worth of pain in a few months. I have had more experience with death and suffering than I care to think about.

The difference between the two to me is, although I prayed for their horrible suffering to end, was I ready and able to be the one who ended their suffering?

It is one thing to wish that ppl close to us didn't suffer and to wish them speedy release of death but I personally couldn't be the one to end their lives. It has absolutely nothing to do with God, or anyone else for that matter. It is a personal thing, I wouldn't be able to live with myself.

[quote]"I'm sure that Christians will start with their load of "god will take them when it's time" bullshit (personally, I'm an atheist). Trust me, if there is a god, he's not there helping to comfort and ease the suffering of people going through a 3 week long dying process from lung cancer, or heart failure.
In the end, no matter how good of a life you've lived, no matter how many people love you, no matter how many friends and family members you have, no matter how "faithful you've been to god", you alone have to bare that pain and suffering. Therefore, you alone should be able to decide if that's something you want to leave up to "god", or if it's something that you want to be able to take control over.[quote]

Hi all,
Well, I do believe in God. I believe that ultimately God is in control of this world and not us. We go through
life struggling and scrambling to maintain the myth that we are in control of our own destiny. Anyone who thinks we are
in control should spend some time with some farmers. These people, who depend on rain and other conditions
that they can't control would quickly set them straight. If a drought lasted long enough we would all be dead through starvation. Are we in control? I don't think so. Death itself shreds the thinly veiled illusion that we are in control of our lives. Suicide (any form of suicide) is just a futile last attempt to maintain the control that we didn't have in the first place. I don't believe in prolonging life for the terminally ill just because we have the technology to do so. That is just another form of striving for control. But I do draw the line at euthanasia. I believe that we should live our lives to the end.

Does God sometimes choose not to alleviate human suffering? Yes, sometimes God doesn't. But I have come to the conclusion (living as a Christian and from the Scriptures) that it is not God's purpose to always make life easy for us. We would like that, but it doesn't work that way. "Faithfulness" to God does not exempt us from suffering. God doesn't owe us anything. We don't earn an easy life by serving God. Just look at some of the people in the Bible. They served God and they suffered because of it. God created a perfect world that humans have corrupted by sin. In God's original intention for humankind, death and suffering was not part of the picture. Now they are a part of life. Sometimes we suffer because of our own sin. Sometimes we suffer because of the sin of others. Sometimes we suffer just because we are in a world infested with sin. Sin and suffering are a reality. And God doesn't always choose
to act in ways we would like.

Are we alone? No, we aren't. Not unless we reject God and choose to be alone. I think we often reject God, not because of some theological point we can't accept, but because we want to remain in control of our lives. We can't accept the fact that someone else is in control. We want to retain the illusion that we are. We can't give over the steering wheel to someone else. We're not alone unless we choose to be alone by rejecting God. Psalm 23 says, "Yea,
though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, you (God) are with me. Your rod and your staff, they comfort me."

Dignity doesn't come from suicide. Dignity comes from facing the worst that life can bring us with an assurance that no matter what happens, God loves and take us to him when we die. I invite anyone who wants real dignity in life to do this:

1) Trust that Jesus died on the cross for our sins.
2)Confess that you have sinned and are a sinner.
3) Ask God to forgive you and give you a new relationship with him.
3) Follow Jesus.
__________________

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you alone have to bare that pain and suffering. Therefore, you alone should be able to decide

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The HMO will be the one making that decision, and your quality
of life will not be the criterion. Rather, it will be the quality
of their bank account.
:cool:

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Ric Burger -- a diabetic, a wheelchair user and a spokesman for disabled citizens in the state -- noted: "The fact that the state of Oregon will not properly fund our personal attendant services, yet will pay for us to die, amounts to nothing less than cultural genocide."

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http://www.prolifeinfo.org/art010.html
:cool:

BTW, the above article is by Nat Hentoff, and he is not
a "right winger" or a christian fundamentalist.
:cool:

In the end, no matter how good of a life you've lived, no matter how many people love you, no matter how many friends and family members you have, no matter how "faithful you've been to god", you alone have to bare that pain and suffering. Therefore, you alone should be able to decide if that's something you want to leave up to "god", or if it's something that you want to be able to take control over. [/B][/QUOTE]

My girl-frend[she has cancer] agrees total and so do i!
She told me when her end is near and her live is one hell of pain when she can t ask a doctor to put her to sleep,i MUST ask and i will.

It should be our choice whether or not we should be able to. I believe that some lives are wasted.

Nothing can bring you peace but yourself.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

I posted this article to view the type of responses it would get. My mother has fought with cancer since I was a little girl. I had no father around, and was raised by my grandparents. I grew up quickly with the reality of things, my mother was sure to let me know everything that was going on, I always interacted with doctors, I learned medicine from living in hospitals while she was being cared for. My whole life, I've seen her grow weaker and weaker, but her mind was so strong and determined, I'm sure that's where I got my strength from. But things have changed recently. Her body over the years has been destroyed by the radiation therapy, and the mind that was once so strong, is weak and accepts its fate.

We have so many discussions now. Discussions about dying. She's always said if assisted suicide was legal, she would do it to die with the dignity of not ever having to be put on machines to help her to breathe, or coughing up blood until her last moments. It's not about the dignity of being in control but the dignity to die without your total body being a ball of mush and completely falling apart.

I have accepted her wishes, although I don't want her to go. She's on DNR orders, meaning they can not resuscitate her or put her on breathing machines to sustain life. I know when the time comes, I will want her to be put on those machines, I will want her to live longer. She is my mother and I love her to pieces, but at the same time, I can't bear to watch her suffer any longer. I've seen the machines, I've seen her being revived...I've seen the pained look in her face, the fear...It's the most horrible feeling in the world besides dealing with what she has to.

Thank you to everyone who posted to this thread, gave me more things to think about. I appreciate it greatly.

I'mma have to go with JP on this, with some exceptions, and also the Goddess. To the greekgoddess I say, I feel really bad, you made me sad with your last post, all teary and stuff, but you said that she has been battling with cancer since you were a child. Not to belittle your experience, but I'm glad that you've gotten to have the pleasure of her company this long, and I'm glad she's had the strength to bless you with it.

To JP I say, I don't necessarily believe in god either, but we got here somewhere. I have a more existentialist point of view, god may have existed, and may still exist, but if he/she has/does live in world omnipotent to our own we have been forsaken. The decisions are ultimatley up to US, ourselves, our own individual beings making the choice to live or to die.
I've also spent tme in some nursing homes on a voluntary basis, and I've also spoken with a couple of freinds before they commited suicide. . .the choice is the same, ill and feeble or not, and it is one of the most difficult and human question to confront yourself with. . .but one could argue that it is also one of the most elightening experiences that a person will submit themselves to.

this thread is very upsetting to me. Both my mother and my father died of cancer. My father cryed till the day he died for puting my mother in the hospital and extending her suffering(uterine cancer).
He died of cancer of the nervous system, a condition the doctor discribed as being skinned alive. He stayed at home threw the whole thing, so as not to extend it near the end he begged me to kill him. i couldn't/wouldnt do it.

We are entitled to make this decision for ourselves, to die that is, no one has the right to make it for us.

It's all about perspective, what you've experienced in your life that determines your point of view on things. My best friend had an abortion, at the time, I was around 15, her being the same. I was angry at her for what she had done. I thought at the time it was so wrong that she could kill her own child. She had made a mistake, but she decided not to deal with it. But I was there with her afterwards, and she would cry and cry, celebrate her child's birthdays in private, and I knew she would punish herself for the rest of her life for it. I didn't try to think of how she felt when I first looked at the situation. I wasn't the one walking though school being thought of as a whore because I thought I was in love with some guy would talked me into sleeping with me, got me pregnant, and didn't want anything to do with me. I didn't have to perspective of wondering if my parents were going to kill me, having to make a choice to kill my baby, or to give up everything in life I had ever wanted to do.

Now, I have that perspective, I'm older, and I look at things differently. I can sit here and say whatever I want, but if I've never experienced it, it's a whole different story. She grew up to have two beautiful children, and it tortures her every day of her life that she chose not to let her third, never-known child live, but at the same time she relishes and cherishes the two children she has now, more so than I think she would of had she never experienced what she did.

I'm not exactly pro-choice, but I'm not exactly against abortion completely. Everyone has their own catalysts for their own decisions. It's not fair for me to judge, it's not fair for me to say to someone...you can't do this because it's wrong, because it may not be wrong to them...they view it differently, and unless you see through their eyes, you don't understand. I was once posed a question in response to the whole abortion issue in one of my psychology classes in college... "Name one unselfish reason to have a baby..."

Back to the topic... (I know, I babble a lot in Cosmos, I can't help it) my mother is religious, not in the sense where she goes to church, she just believes. I don't, but I admire her beliefs, that she truly believes them, and I sometimes wish I wasn't so critical of things like that and just believe, but I question so much. I figure that I'll accept some form of religion when I'm older. She doesn't believe that it's wrong and that God will send her to hell because she doesn't want to deal with the pain anymore. That's probably the most controversial part of this whole topic....She's never had a 'normal' life, she's been ill since being a child herself, I was the result of the only relationship she ever had, the guy leaving because he couldn't deal with her being ill, and the work it entailed. She's dealt with physical and emotional pain her whole life, the past 10 years being the worst. Doctors said she wouldn't live several times. They've given her 24 hour time limits. To me, she is one walking miracle. It's all about her will. But now, as I said before, her will is growing weak, she's not afraid to die, and now she's embracing it, signing the DNR orders. I am her power of attorney, and this is hard as hell.

Two months ago, I got a call from the hospital. (For starters, she lives in a special community, semi-assisted, aids all of the time, completely paid for by social security and medicaid, it has been great for her, she has friends with similar problems, and it's completely handicapped based.) Anyway, she was found outside by the paperboy at 4 am and he called the paramedics. Apparently, since this story was never fully pieced together, she had a small heart-attack, got disoriented while letting the dog out the back door, and fell out of her wheelchair and attempted to crawl completely around the whole entire building, eventually passing out from exhaustion and exposure, since it was very cold, and she was wearing bedclothes.

When I arrived at the hospital, she was dispondent, and when she is dispondent, I make all decisions. (I HATE IT!!! I don't feel responsible enough to make life decisions for other people, even if it's my mom, who I know the best other than anyone else in this world.) They wanted to put her on a respirator after 3 days of difficult breathing, everything had to be assured that this wasn't to prolongue death, but to help 'assist her' in breathing. So she was put on the respirator, since it was aiding her and not doing it FOR her.

A time is going to come eventually, when there is a respirator or something similar and it's not aiding her anymore, but doing it for her...and I am going to have to respect her wishes to have it pulled. How is this any different than assisted suicide? That's what I really want to know. It will keep her alive, there may be some slim chance for recovery, who's to know. I'm still a pre-med student, I don't know enough, although I am very educated on her diseases, medical procedures, etc.. It's been so damn hard for me the past few months, trying to think of what happens when the time comes.

I want to know from preacherman481 what is God's point of view on this?
And from the rest...if this was you, what would you be thinking, etc?

She has been hospitalized twice since the first incident two months ago. Similar reasons, one of them was she took an extra morphine, out in the sun too long and got confused. She refuses to give up her independence to even go into assisted living, or to live with me. She will lose her benefits if she lives with me, and my income could not afford her the tons of medication she takes.

Please, I'm in need of more input.

I don't pray, or I would for you and your mother (instead I'll think happy thoughts for you), but. . .sometimes, the only thing that can keep a person going, is to think that there really is an afterlife, whether it be heaven, rebirth, or the Elutian Fields, and that there really is a point to any sufferinga person has to go through in this life. I'm not relligous, and my beliefs are far and in between, but I like to think that all the people that have gone before me are happier where they are.

I feel this is a very personal issue and not one I feel qualified to speak on but I have seen death in my immediate and extended family and have felt the pain.

My father died a few years ago at a relatively young age of 62, it was very sudden and totally unexpected for us - the loss left me somewhat gutted but from which I have recovered and drawn strength. It came to pass that dad had knowledge of his illness but chose not to do anything about it and let nature take its course, a personal decision and one that I am not angry at him for taking. It must have taken courage not to alert his family and cause concern and worry - although some may view this as selfish, I can not. He was an ex-serviceman, had travelled the world and had a full, albeit, relatively short life. He was a kind and gentle man of few, but always very wise, words and this I miss immensely.

My wife recently lost her father to a prolonged illness, and to watch the suffering of both him, my wife and family I believe I was the lucky one - he suffered alzheimers disease and was not in any condition to make decisions in the end. The family consented to DNR orders in the end and nature eventually took its course. His dying process took 3 long horrible years. The converstaion of euthanasia was never discussed but towards the end the DNR was. He did express his wishes to his family in the early days that he did not want to end the way he did, but coming from a very religious family, assisted suicide was never an option and the DNR was a very difficult thing for them to come to terms with.

Personally for myself, I would not be able to make a decision in regards to assisted suicide, euthanasia unless I faced that problem personally and it was me that the decision was going to directly effect - i.e my own life. I would not pass judgement upon any others who are facing this issue but would support them in anyway possible regardless to the decision they took.

Greek Goddess, my thoughts are with you and your mother and I hope you find the answers and support that you both need at this time.

When I arrived at the hospital, she was dispondent, and when she is dispondent, I make all decisions. (I HATE IT!!! I don't feel responsible enough to make life decisions for other people, even if it's my mom, who I know the best other than anyone else in this world.)

After reading this post,i know you can cause you ve grown!!! My girl-frend asked me to do the same .

The first thing that came in my mind was.......I can t do this!
But in time after a lot of talking i decided for my self........I can do this cause i love her so much!!!

And so you can!!!

Lot s of strenght!

She has been hospitalized twice since the first incident two months ago. Similar reasons, one of them was she took an extra morphine, out in the sun too long and got confused. She refuses to give up her independence to even go into assisted living, or to live with me. She will lose her benefits if she lives with me, and my income could not afford her the tons of medication she takes.

Please, I'm in need of more input. [/B][/QUOTE]

When thats her wish so be it and don t feel bad about it!
Living with you won t make it easy for her infact harder cause everything you do to help her,she will think.......this is not the life i want for my daughter.[being medic 24/7]

I know it s very hard for you!

So the best thing you can do[and maybe the hardest thing to do is make some fun with her and show her you ve grown]