This mistaken definition of a newbie.

Hello everyone,

I'm writing this thread to get something out that has been on my mind. I have noticed that some people are mistaking a newbie for someone who dosen't know much about computers, not security. It has been said many times before that a newbie is someone who is new to security/hacking, and everyone thinks they are just new to the computer. I am trying to tell everyone here not to mistake someone who asks "where can i get sub7?" or "how do i hack a computer" or "how do i hack hotmail" as a newbie, most call them script kiddies though. But some people new to AO are considering a newbie is just as bad as a script kiddie. Newbies want to learn. They don't want social status, they aren't evil. They are mistaken for lamers and script kiddies. Here is the definition of lamer from http://www.hackers.com:

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A lamer is not a hacker. Someone is classified as a lamer when:
1: They ask others to break into email accounts, or deface websites for them.
2: They talk about sub7 or Back Oriface.
3: They ask alot of questions, but arent willing to read articles,books, or investigate on their own.
4: They ask others to do any illegal activity for any reason.

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That pretty much describes lamers and script kiddies.

Here is a definition of a lamer, script kiddie, and newbie/neophyte(by ennis in her tutorial) from http://www.antionline.com/showthread...hreadid=218093

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Newbies/Neophythes
Newbies are only well new to hacking, they are striving to learn and it is at this stage they decide what path they will take. A newbie could become anything if not taught early the code of the hacker. The usually go through a process of learning from their mistakes.
Neophythes are newbies who are beginning to show some knowledge and are contributing to the hacker society. Many hackers remain at this stage and few move on the 'uberhacker' status.

Lamers
Lamers are the people that just wont learn, they are not interested in real hacking instead looking for easy ways to impress their freinds etc. Everything they do is accomplished without any innovative ideas, just basic copying of old exploits, tools etc.

Script Kiddies
*Ennis cringes* Yes we all them, the bottom of the hacker culture is fulll of wannabes, these malicious kids are lamers with enough knowledge to lets say, deface a site or execute DoS attacks, creat simple virii etc. They are the people that give hackers a bad name.

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So, as I have mentioned, newbies want to learn. They are not like lamers and script kiddies. They are way ahead of them. And lamers and script kiddies are not as bad as a newbie. Newbies are way better. Newbies don't use tools, they don't touch DoS or virii(unless they are learning about programming with virii). Although, some people will start out as a script kiddie, but they usually don't have bad intent, just trying to figure out hacking, or they start by learning trojans. Newbies are striving for knowledge. So, newbies aren't script kiddies, lamers or computer illiterate.

Thanks for you time~

Well said~! :)

mmm interesting i have spent a lot of time keeping hackers out of our servers,i have studied the technics,i have used them (test purposes only)i have visited 100s of web sites with some interesting tools,i have studied on scripts,a little vb,heap of linux and a bit of unix,and have seen the technics they use first hand(attacks on our servers).So what do i Qualify as??????

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Originally posted here by reaper44
mmm interesting i have spent a lot of time keeping hackers out of our servers,i have studied the technics,i have used them (test purposes only)i have visited 100s of web sites with some interesting tools,i have studied on scripts,a little vb,heap of linux and a bit of unix,and have seen the technics they use first hand(attacks on our servers).So what do i Qualify as??????

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Well what you just described is pretty much a Tuesday in the life of a systems admin ;)

I fully agree, I also was a newbie and maybe i still am but some time ago i joined www.cyberarmy.com and tried to beat the zebulun challanges. I don't know if they are still the same but for rank 3 (i think) you had to do something but there wasn't a button or something to get to the challange. I was really pissed because it could be everything. Maybe the purpose was to somehow break into the cyberarmy servers and manualy change the list with ranks, how should i know. (I didn't actually do that by the way). And than if you really are going to scan those servers you're a 'script kiddie' who isn't capable of using a computer the right way and you get banned out of the cyberarmy while your only intention was to beat the next challange.

Well, this was mostly fiction off course but it gives some illustration. I also know my English isn't the world's best so I'm sorry for that.

Thank's huntx7, it is good to be understood better.
Thumbs up for you!!

finally, im glad to see a proper definition of a newbie :D

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So, as I have mentioned, newbies want to learn.

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I still consider myself a newbie. I still on the process of learning. Perhaps, everybody still wants to learn. So I consider everyone a newbie.

Thanks everyone for your reply and input. I am glad to see all of you enjoyed that and agreed. I just realized how newbies were mistaken for script kiddies and lammers and computer illiterate(you read it ;p) and thats not true. So I figure, why not get this off my mind and share my view. If you are a newbie looking for knowledge, or just looking for knowledge and just begginging this whole security/hacking thing I have lots of sites for you to get started on, or if you want some wargames, or whatever(not script kiddie and lamer stuff sites). I'm here to learn and help, so just ask. Post in here and tell me if you want some good links for what I mentioned above.

http://www.thenewbiesarea.com/ < - - lots of help

Thanks for your time~

politroyx > your right, learning never stops, hence we are all newbies forever in a sense. I myself don't put much value on terms like 1337 or newbie, I think somones ability lies in what they can do and what they know, not what they are called.

I personally consider the day a waste if I do not learn at least one new thing before it ends. Good post!

huntx7 > what wargames do you have links to, the only one ive actually played and liked was at hackerslab.org also if you have any really good beginner tutorials for C i could use those too.

I still consider myself a newbie. I know alot, but I don't know everything. It is a lifelong learning battle that has been 10 years in the making. Luckily I learned many, many, years ago which path I was destined to take. I hope you all have made or will make that same decision. Hunt, Great post.
cheers
x

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Originally posted here by Syini666
huntx7 > what wargames do you have links to, the only one ive actually played and liked was at hackerslab.org also if you have any really good beginner tutorials for C i could use those too.

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Wargames:
http://www.pulltheplug.com
Got this from http://happyhacker.org/wargame/index.shtml:

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http://dolph.mine.nu Telnet right in (user name guest, password guest) by clicking here.

http://www.try2hack.nl/ is a great wargame for beginners. It even has a forum where you can learn how to attack it. First lesson: turn off Javascript on your browser, or else they send you to Disneyland.

Damage, Inc. is running hacker wargames on Unix-type operating systems. Play, learn cool stuff, win awards.

Hackerslab.org is a genuine hacker playground with computer break-in games, run by Korean hackers who want to discourage computer crime while encouraging those who want to legally learn how to hack. They now have an English version of their web site.

Ebina tells us how to get into the game. "You start out by registering for an account, which gives you a user name and password with which to access the 'View Problems' page. You will then see the problem you need to hack to get to level 1.

"You then telnet to drill.hackerslab.org, login as level0 and guest, and hack your way to user level1. Once level1, you run a command, `pass`, that tells you the password to login as level1. Enter that into the 'View Problems' page, and you can see the problem you need to hack to get to level 2. All the way to level 14."

To chat with other hackers playing this wargame, click here.

Try to break into this Happy Hacker web site! We dare you! Click here to learn more about our custom BrickServer operating system and web server.

Wargames hosted by Hack3r.com --->>

six by6 says "I have set up a 'hack the flag' wargame for my homepage, http://rt45.host.sk . I'm trying to get many people connecting so it will be more fun. Its set up in a series of rounds which will occur every week or so for 3-5 hours a piece, with the first one occuring today (!) at 7:00pm-10:00pm, CST. The wargame is run on a computer owned by me in my home, built for the purpose of a wargame."

For a game that lets you play at being a movie-style hacker, try out http://www.introversion.co.uk/.

Happy Hacker Wargame Rules

If you are serious about winning a hacker wargame, click here for help.

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Here is my google search: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&i...TF8&q=Wargames

Tutorials(you will find some good C/C++ ones here):
http://blacksun.box.sk/books.html
http://blacksun.box.sk/tutorials.html
http://oogle.com
http://code.box.sk/
http://programmersheaven.com/
My Googe search for "Programming tutorials":
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&i...ming+tutorials
My Googe search for "C tutorials":
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...&q=C+tutorials

http://www.jethro.antionline.com

http://www.htmlgoodies.com < - - I got to meet the guy he's awesome, he acutally lives near my town cuz he teaches college here :D

Very helpful (tutorial from Ennis):
http://www.antionline.com/showthread...hreadid=218093

Source http://www.antionline.com/showthread...readid=218093:

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Security
www.nemohackers.com
www.blackcode.com
http://rofhackers.cjb.net
www.lameindustries.org
http://blacksun.box.sk/books.html
http://vodka.at/caliberx
www.fromesh.f2s.com
www.cyruslabs.com
www.hackersincorporated.org
http://neworder.box.sk
www.hm2k.com
www.rootkidd.com
www.smarthack.com
www.haxor.ipfox.com
http://redsky.advknowledge.net
www.cyberarmy.com
www.securitywriters.org
http://xatrix.org

Programming
www.programmersheaven.com
www.codecranker.com
www.codepile.com
www.cprogramming.com
www.programmerszone.com
www.vcworld.f2s.com

Anonymity
www.multiproxy.org

Virus
www.ebcvg.com
http://hvx.cjb.net

Trojan Removal
http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Qu.../new/sub7guide

Operating Systems

MS-DOS
www.easydos.com
www.freedos.org http://liberty.mas.vcu.edu/~resler/...l/tutorial.html

Open/Free BSD
www.openbsd.org
www.bsdtoday.com
www.freebsd.org

Linux
www.linux.com
www.linux.org
www.linux.ie
www.redhat.com
www.debian.org
www.linuxtoday.com
www.kernal.org

Microsoft Windows
www.windows-help.net
www.helponthe.net

Unicode
www.sec33.com
www.unicode.org

Tools/Programs
www.system7.org
www.djtozz.ws

Challenges
www.area6.f2s.com
www.arcanum.co.nz

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I hope I helped! Good luck.

Thanks for your time~

huntx7 > thanks, i got enough reading material to keep me busy for quite a few days, hopefully some of the tutorials will help me over some bumps im having with learning C.

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Originally posted here by Syini666
huntx7 > thanks, i got enough reading material to keep me busy for quite a few days, hopefully some of the tutorials will help me over some bumps im having with learning C.

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Glad I could help ya'. Ask your questions here in AO, it's very helpful. Lemme know how it comes along.

Thanks for your time~

update/correction: there's 17 levels in hackerslab.

Neel: Cyberarmy's not worth it. IMO most of the challenges (especially Eliza) are... well... not near an accurate represenation of a computing problem. That, and after you get far enough something happens so that they start the whole contest all over again. :) (Happened to me, anyway.)

Yea ive been studying computer security for 2 years , there are endless things to learn in this field , I can program in a few languages , i do not try to impress my friends or anything lame like that.I really do not consider myself a newbie , because ive been doing this for so long , and im definetely not a script kiddie , because i actually have programming knowledge , and i do not consider myself a lamer , but i just dont know where i stand in this field , maybe someone can help me ?
-N

n01100110:
Perhaps the tutorial written by Ennis will explain:
http://www.antionline.com/showthread...hreadid=218093

Or try:
http://www.hackers.com/ and click their 'How to start hacking' link.

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Yea ive been studying computer security for 2 years , there are endless things to learn in this field , I can program in a few languages , i do not try to impress my friends or anything lame like that.[bold]I really do not consider myself a newbie [/bold], because ive been doing this for so long , and im definetely not a script kiddie , because i actually have programming knowledge , and i do not consider myself a lamer , but i just dont know where i stand in this field , maybe someone can help me ?

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n01100110, You don't call yourself a newbie, a script kiddie nor a lamer? Then what are you? A hacker? A cracker? You said that you've been studying computer security for 2 years, but still you don't know what you are. You're still in the process of learning. Like what you've said it is an endless thing of learning. It's only you who can identify where you stand in this field.

Youve Woken me politroyx , I think that I can call myself a "hacker" , because i do program and i can stretch a system to its possibilities , so I guess that i can identify myself as a hacker , because I do not crack software (anymore , sorry guys) I do not use skill in a bad manner just to impress friends (never did).So i guess what it all boils down to is me being a hacker i guess , thanx poli.
-N

Huntx7 , i appreciate your help , i have been hacking for a year and a half , so i definetely know what im doing so i dont need to read the how to start hacking link.What i meant by that jumbo was that I dont know what to call myself.But now im just going to go plain and simple and call myself a hacker , because i enjoy systems for good ethical use.
-N

"I dont know what to call myself"

what's wrong with n01100110, it's a much better identifier than a 'hacker'. i bet that the AO populous is > 80% self-claimed 'hackers'.

to hell with the titles. be yourself; do what interests you without worry of a proper introduction, nameplate, identity-group, or comparison ratio.

Ya your right , to hell with name plates i am n01100110! thats who i am

Great post. Thx Huntx for the thread. Kudoos to ya. I have been heavily into computers for years and still consider myself a newbie in many areas though "l33t" in others. If you ever have some questions regaurding electronics in general shoot them my way cause this thread gave me a few answers.

Peace out

It's my pleasure to help you all. I would rather help someone learn to hack than piss them off and hack them, which I would never do. Because I am into security, ethical, and I believe when you do something malicious to a computer user, or some just learning about this whole hacking/security thing because that person would want revenge, not knowledge, there, another script kiddie was created. See what I mean? So, learn and be good and ethical, not bad and malicious. Now, go do some learning with the tutorial links I have gave you, use a search engine, read, and learn! Glad, and hope I could help.

Thanks for your time~

I am a newbie to Linux, and to certain facets of net security.
But that's why I am here.
I am reading through ALL of the tutorials and then searching for more info on the subjects that intrigue me.
For example:
I just did my first Linux installation this weekend, dl'ed Mandrake, thanks to the influence of y'all I want to find out more about it so I can have an honest basis for comparison.

I agree totaly, but my status says im a newbie, when ive been "practising" computers for many years. its just because im new to the site? is there anyway i can upgrade my status from a newbie to what i really am.

It'a because your a newbie to the site man.
http://www.antionline.com/misc.php?s...=faq&page=3#34 Hope I could help.
Also, newbie dosen't mean your learning computers, it means your learning security/hacking. Not computers themselves, just learning how to run computer programs and knowing dos.
Thanks for your time~