Ant-iAmerican-ism

alright... disclaimer... this post is primarily directed towards people who live in america because they will understand where i am coming from... but is it just me or has it become really easy since 9/11 to get called anti american?

example:
at work, i was speaking with a coworker and said that i am opposed to the death penalty. they responded with "you mean except for osama bin laden" and i said no... in general i oppose the death penalty at all times for all people. they responded with and i quote "If you hate our country so much, then why don't you leave." to which a few other coworkers agreed.

example 2:
i was discussing with my mother, my policy on warfare (which i think should be avoided at all costs) and i made a statement about saying we shouldn't risk the lives of our troops in wars that don't concern us. she also responded with, "If you hate our country so much, then why don't you leave."

now please don't turn this thread into a discussion of the opinions in the examples for they are just examples. but is it just me or has any one else found this happening to them

ill bet you get beat up allot, huh? j/k

i havn't been accussed of being un-american since i was in school, i grew out of it. maybe its the people your approching, who may have been accussed of being un-american when they were younger and feel a need to pass it on. my father used to tell me the exact same thing though, "If you hate our country that much, then leave!" i guess its a never ending story.

when i speak against the things our country is doing, i make it very clear, im doing so as an american (not holding the 'red book' or anything like that) and would like very much for us to uphold the ideals of our founding fathers. That would include wars in which we don't belong.

Hey, I'm about as patriotic as they come. My office has a HUGE copy of the Dec. of Ind. and the Bill of Rights on its walls and I'm here to say that we ALL have a right to our opinions and a right to disagree with government policies if we so choose. Thats part of what this country was founded on. Your mom (no offense intended here) and co-workers need to understand that their attitudes are un-american, not yours. Hundreds of thousands of good Americans have died defending our rights, and what has beed said to you quite frankly could be viewed as dishonoring their memories. JMHO.

All I can say is this. To question your goverment actions (any goverment) does not mean you hate your country. This means you question if all valid reasons were asked and attempted before military action by those you elected. A small man with lots of american money (not gonna even say the name) as he has no honor but wants the world to bow to Mecca don't think so. So we have all this iut here warnings of cyber war and yet our goverment plays catch up cause public secotr jobs are no top dollar. So I say question things it is your right and duty as an American. Are there other answers yes stand tall and be brave and ask those questions, but also understand that your gonna take hits for it. Me :) am old no one asked me anything after all you know this world and me I know the world I walk in and add ,y little things out here. World change one person at a time and it can change into good or bad the world you wish for your children.

Lord dark,

I dont think that your observations are restricted to your fellow americans. i think we have all noticed on here a certain amount of Patriotic fervour at even the slightest hint of questioning or open discussion of U.S affairs.
It seems there is a lot of hyper-sensetivity about people being viewed as 'Un-American' by their thoughts, questions or ideas. it's interesting to see the reporting of the George Michael video ban on your side of the 'pond'. As the Video also deeply satirised H.M Queen Elizabeth (Gawd bless 'er Non-Tax paying soul) and our prime minister i was surprised at the amount of controversy there was over the 'U.S' targets of the video. Maybe all a product of the current mind set's that you mention.
:)

To lots of americans, patriotism is almost a kind of religion, that scares me. Some people tend to abuse religions - that scares me even more.

well warfare to my oppinion is a poinless stupid way to waste human life.. in war.. nobody wins.. everyone looses.. BUSH is asking for LOTS of trouble with his "amma gonna bomb and destroy the axis if evil" sounds like them old High Priests back in the dark ages with all them witch hunts..

Just people practicing on of our American right's , Iwould say lord dark.I am against our country being involved in other countries war,s.But not against the death penalty. And thats why america is so great,we can express our views freely.Withour fear of being shot for it. I grew up during the vietnam era,so my views on war are going to be a tad different than the younger generation's are now.War's are a part of history, weather they be needfull or useless.Inoocents die during war's.But there have only been a few rare inacident's of a "innocent " dieing by exacution in this country.I dont like the fact our country gets involved in other countries conflict's any more than any other American does.But 911 was a evil thing that happend just as what timothy mcviegh did.Innocent people died,so that a group of terroist could make a point.And for that reason I see why America and the other great countries are involved in this war.911 Was'nt just a attack against America,it was a attack against ALL religions,All colors, All races,and against ALL people of the world.

Please over look my typeing errors in the above post.Badeye day .

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Originally posted here by lord_darkside_x
alright... disclaimer... this post is primarily directed towards people who live in america because they will understand where i am coming from... but is it just me or has it become really easy since 9/11 to get called anti american?

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I would imagine that more or less extreme patriotism is a fairly normal way to react after a thing like 9/11. At times of war people always turns all patriotic and I guess that the harder the actual enemy and the immediate danger is to define the more patriotic people become.
I would also imagine that the Bush-administration does very little to change this behaviour amongst people. Then again, why would they?

I think however that the development is scary because *I belive* that patriotism is a very narrow minded thing.

I'm swedish all the way. Several generations back. Yet I feel nothing for my country because a countrys greatness is defined by it's people. I've never quite understood what's so good about any country to be frank.

I demand my right to feel just as proud of the cherry blossoms in Japan as the swedish arcipelago or the niagra falls.

World citizens unite! ;)

I'm not a very "patriotic" person. I feel uncomfortable with
loud expressions of national pride, flag-waving and the like.
But I would definitely fight if I felt threatened. Fear is a great
motivating factor for war. If there was a militant Islamic
country nearby, and they were constantly sending
assassins and hit squads into my home town,
If they were threatening to outlaw my quiet practice
of my own chosen religious faith, if gangs of them were marauding
and raping and blowing stuff up...

Pity the people in disputed regions like Bosnia-Herzogovina
or Kashmir or the Sudan because war is imposed upon
them whether they wanted it or not.

Before the outbreak of WWII, Americans were having the same
discussions as we are having now, with the majority being
against getting involved in the European war. "War never
solves anything" ; "There's two sides to the story"; same
arguments as today, and perfectly reasonable.

It is also perfectly reasonable to doubt whether the Government
is playing straight with us and telling us the truth.

OK, so let's say we decide that support for Israel was bad policy
and we discontinue that support. Does anyone really think this
would protect the USA from further attacks? So we sell them out
and let the Arabs finish what Hitler started, would this act of cowardice
earn respect from the Islamic world, or would it whet their
appetite for more blood?

Who's next on their hit list? India? You bet. The Philippines? why not?
They want world domination, and the only way to stop them
is to stand there with a gun and say "Enough is enough"
:cool:

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Originally posted here by Guus
To lots of americans, patriotism is almost a kind of religion, that scares me. Some people tend to abuse religions - that scares me even more.

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Well, the country is less than four hundred years old and is founded on a bunch of cultures and religions. I guess the lack of original "americanism" makes people stick together and defend their newly founded country with whatever they got.

The US as a concept is a rather interesting thing because it is the newest country based on european civilisation, yet it has completely taken over the world. American culture invade every part of our everyday life and kids in school gave up their english accent years ago in favour of the much cooler american accent as heard on tv.

I do however think that America is a truly magnificent nation in several different ways and I think the american way to celebrate freedom is healty. I enjoy the same freedom of speech and freedom of press as any american but I take my freedom for granted and I think it is dangerous to do so.

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Originally posted here by lord_darkside_x
... they responded with and i quote "If you hate our country so much, then why don't you leave." to which a few other coworkers agreed.

i was discussing with my mother, my policy on warfare (which i think should be avoided at all costs) and i made a statement about saying we shouldn't risk the lives of our troops in wars that don't concern us. she also responded with, "If you hate our country so much, then why don't you leave."

now please don't turn this thread into a discussion of the opinions in the examples for they are just examples. but is it just me or has any one else found this happening to them

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OK, I will not discuss the examples. Why is it that you can express yourself in ways that you are well aware will upset other people and then whine when they exercise their Constitutional rights and tell you things that in response that YOU don't like?

I may have have missed some posts, but I have NOT see anyone STARTING THREADS here saying that all people who say negative things they don't like about the U.S. should be deported. INSTEAD, I see people like you posting criticism of reactions from people that you have deliberately antagonized. Do you mean that you don't know your mother well enough to know that what you said about her country is hurtful to her? It is obvious to me that you deliberately said things to upset her and your co-workers. This has NOTHING to do with the U.S. - other than the fact that you have used criticism of your country as a way to irritate other people. When others say "then leave", are so dense as to not understand that the simply don't wish to discuss this any further? GROW UP!!!

Similar to the poster who thinks that (paraphrase) "you'll grow out it." I think that you have maturity problems. Anyone who deliberately antagonizes others then receives a rebuke and then whines about it later is someone who frankly needs a little ass whuppin'.

"Patriotism is not a short and frenzied outburst of emotion but
the tranquil and steady dedication of a lifetime."-Adlai E. Stevenson,Jr.

lorddarksidex
I didn't get the same answer as you did (If you hate our country so much, then why don't you leave.), because I'm not an american. I got it more like this way: "If you hate our country so much, then shut the hell up ******* and die". Well that's not really a problem to me and it also is more of an example of how far some people can go in their 'patriotism' and hatred.

dark, i get called unamerican all the time for practicing my freedom of speech. i know excactly what you are saying. some people's minds are so closed that they refuse to see the good in what you are saying.

i really fear that because of this whole 911 thing, we will soon be living in a police state. heck, a senator (cant remember which) recently stated that our country will not be much different from those countries we were fighting during wwII and vietnam if we continue to give up our freedoms so willingly in the name of "protection". just be careful, everyone. be aware of what laws are being passed.

It seems to me that no one should really want war. It's a bad thing, it's definitily a total loss of huimanity and civilization.

That said, I would also like to say what makes America great is that fact that we are the people are supposed to question our government's actions.

On the the flip side of that, being patriotic doesn't mean supporting all it's actions. I am an ex-military person and I for one don't like war, but some of the comments about America going after countries for the hell of it are not correct in my view.

The axis of evil thing is a stange concept I don't totally agree with, however if we sit back and do nothing it will come back to bite us. It has in the past and it will again. A proactive military is not something anyone wants - it's something we need.

I know that many people think that our policies are not the best, but if we were totally passive like in the early 1940's when France, England, Belgum, Holland, Polland and the like were being raped. We sat back and were passive, finally when we got in the war we made a difference. (A good difference) - It may happen again, maybe this time it will be America that is attacked or nuked or even invaded. Then everyone will be saying "why didn't the government do something about this before".

There needs to be a defining line between being zealous and patriotic. Patriotic people fight for what they believe in when the time is appropriate and don't overdo the whole national pride thing. Zealous patriots are the ones who scream the loudest about actions and protecting the nation and they're right out front with the flag-waving and whatnot. Problem is, all these 'patriotic' people fell out of the woodwork when 9/11 happened and everyone and their brother had flag bumper stickers and American pride stuff all over the place yet I question their real motivation. Personally, I think it's the whole 'opaque bubble' they lived in got busted and the real world showed up.

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Originally posted here by Zadok0552

I may have have missed some posts, but I have NOT see anyone STARTING THREADS here saying that all people who say negative things they don't like about the U.S. should be deported. INSTEAD, I see people like you posting criticism of reactions from people that you have deliberately antagonized. Do you mean that you don't know your mother well enough to know that what you said about her country is hurtful to her? It is obvious to me that you deliberately said things to upset her and your co-workers. This has NOTHING to do with the U.S. - other than the fact that you have used criticism of your country as a way to irritate other people. When others say "then leave", are so dense as to not understand that the simply don't wish to discuss this any further? GROW UP!!!

Similar to the poster who thinks that (paraphrase) "you'll grow out it." I think that you have maturity problems. Anyone who deliberately antagonizes others then receives a rebuke and then whines about it later is someone who frankly needs a little ass whuppin'.

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Whoa. Narrow minded thinking if you ask me.

In what way are lord_darksides's opinions antagonizing and what kind of people gets upset for the opinions he expressed? Seems to me there is a lacking of nuance in this debate and that when someone is trying to express something else they get told to move. It is undemocratic and totally against the freedom you so proudly hold before everybody.

The foundation of democracy are different views and the equal expression of them. If one side or one opinion is silenced democracy is thrown out the window.

You either tell lord_darkside_x to shut up and stand for the fact that you oppose your american freedom or you stand by his side for his right to express whatever is on his mind, wether you like it or not. That's what your freedom of speech is all about. Or maybe you just like it when people say what you think is appropriate?

I would even say that it is of uttermost importance in any democratic society to deliberatly toss in some inconvienient opinions into the discussions just to keep them going. A free democratic society demands debate. I can't stress this enough.`

Cheers,

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Just people practicing on of our American right's , Iwould say lord dark.I am against our country being involved in other countries war,s.But not against the death penalty. And thats why america is so great,we can express our views freely.Withour fear of being shot for it. I grew up during the vietnam era,so my views on war are going to be a tad different than the younger generation's are now.

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hmmmm...kent State anyone? seems like they were using your much vaunted freedom of speech.

To Who ever gave me some anti-points with the Comment:

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You don't even live in the US, so you have no right to bitch about the US. Besides, because of the US, the UK is NOT speaking German. Show some gratitude.

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I have no problem with people giving me Valid anti-points, but for a very bland post as i had done :confused:

Please have some courtesy and put your name against your comment. isnt standing up with your OWN viewpoint what it's all about in the end?



Thank you.

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Originally posted here by E-1

I have no problem with people giving me Valid anti-points, but for a very bland post as i had done :confused:

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I think the antipoint comment you received pretty much confirms part of what have been said in this discussion. There are people that belive it to be wrong to criticize the US.

I think criticism of any country at any given point is important. Criticizing people are thinking people.

Why can't people living outside the US criticize it? Give me just one reason.

Besides, because of the UK the US exists at all. There is a reason for americans speaking english. but maybe that never occured to whoever gave you your antipoints. ;p

Cheers,

yeah.... i get nailed with negs for this (thankfully there are people who gave me greenies as well....) but i love the people who gave neggs but didn't have the balls to say anything in the forum about there opinions.

and for all the people who gave me negs... you mostly misunderstand...

#1- i love america, but i don't have to agree with anything that they do. i have a right to disagree...

#2- patriotism does not mean that you have to support every thing that our country does... patriotism is not standing around waving a flag or putting up signs that say "Nuke the ****ing Bastards!" patriotism is not blindly following and agreeing with things that you feel is wrong. it is ok to find a problem with things that are done. it is even better if that opinion is expressed and things can be made better. i think it is more patriotic to stand up for what you believe in cause that is what this country is about.

#3- i am not "bitching" about anything... i am just saying, when did america become so closed minded that i can't have an opinion that differs with the majority. i am pointing out that just because i have a different opinion, that does not mena i should be forced to leave the country. the people who believe that have a wrong concept of freedom of speech. freedom of speech does not mean "free until you disagree"

i am not anti-american. i am anti-injustice, i am anti-war, i am anti-forcing nations to conform to our beliefs, i am anti-killing innocent people for others mistakes regardless of whether or not other innocent lives were lost. i don't think that murder jsutifies murder. an eye for an eye never worked. wha are we to judge who deserves to live and die? who are we to decide who is right and wrong? i don't care if people think that makes me unamerican, then maybe we need to consider our view of what american means

QUESTION AUTHORITY

Umm is it me or this turning somewhat into a us (THE patriotic) vs. them (THE non-patriotic and/or non US)....ack!

I think the main point (originally at least) was a question of if LDX was the only one getting "highly passionate" responses for his disagreement with the "popular" view here in the US.

Yes, I've had highly energetic discussions over controversial issues, though as of yet noones offered to try and deport me, heh. Personally, I think the responses were a bit over much...BUT...just as it was his right to disagree, they had a right to respond (don't ya love the double edge sword of free speech). Oh, in case yer wondering, I consider myself VERY patriotic..especially when I show I'm willing to allow others to express their opinion, whether or not I agree. Nuff said....

**goes back to his desk, after slipping on a flak jacket and blast mask and shield,**

Patriotism is good, but it should not suspend the thought process. But I have to agree quite a few people will cry "anti-american" in an attempt to drive a point home, even though this country is supposed to be founded on the free expression of opinion.

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Originally posted here by Mankan


You either tell lord_darkside_x to shut up and stand for the fact that you oppose your american freedom or you stand by his side for his right to express whatever is on his mind, wether you like it or not. That's what your freedom of speech is all about. Or maybe you just like it when people say what you think is appropriate?

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Are you trying to dictate to me? You obviously have no idea of freedom, including my right to express myself in the way that I please. You obviously have NO IDEA of "freedom of speech." Did I hit a nerve? Are you a disrespectful child, like dark, who insults his/her mother and friends? Ansd then PRETENDS to understand what freedom of speech is about! HAH!

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Are you a disrespectful child, like dark, who insults his/her mother and friends? Ansd then PRETENDS to understand what freedom of speech is about! HAH!

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having an opinion does not make me a "disrespectful child." expressing that opinion is not an insult. i did not insult my friends or my mother. maybe you should have read the examples i gave more thoroughly in order to understand what they said. so you understand what freedom of speech is eh? well from the way you are talking it sounds like your definition is: "to be a close minded bigot and not allow any opinion that differs from my own." that is basically what you are saying. you have a right to disagree with me, i will agree with you on that. but i also have a right to disagree with the things that go on in my country, where i am a good standing citizen whose tax dollars are funding these said activities. i have a right to know what is going on and i also have a right to say something when i disagree with the things that are going on. just because you agree doesn't mean that i should not be allowed to express my disagreement. my entire point of this thread was not to say that my opinion is right, nor to say that the people who said the things they said had "no right" to say them. my point was how come there opinions are valid, but mine makes me in league with terrorists and possibly even the devil (depending on who you ask)?

Let me answer also to Guus and sOnIc, all in a single message. As a matter of fact patriotism is a disease of almost any group of people (let me use this term instead of "nation", which is a word I hate as a nonsense) in this (let me say) ****in' (I promise, it's my last bad word in this message) capitalistic world, be they americans, europeans, russians and even afghans. And let me say that I'm saying all this WITHOUT willing to insult any of you, I'm just against patriotism and I'm against patriots only in what concerns their ideas about (their?) nations.
If we speak about WWI, WWII, Vietnam, Etiopia (I don't know the english name), Falklands, Gulf war, Yugoslavia war, and even 9/11 and Afghanistan: who made money (or anything else) out of it? Surely not the people who fought and/or died, be they soldiers, terrorists and victims. What I mean with this confused (I admit it, but I have no time to write a better one now) speech? It's not another nation or group of proletarians, our enemy. It's capitalism, in every form and any nation.
How does it relates to patriotism? Well, I think no one should be patriot because patriotism (and nations themselves) is just a capitalistic stuff.
To use the words of Trotzskji: "I'm the most faithful citzien of my nation, and my nation is the whole world".
By now, that's all folks!
Roccobarbi.

PS: Let's try how much you trust your own ideas. If it's true that you accept and respect other people's ideas, you'll just answer without kicking me out of year.

I disagree, patriotism is a natural extension of our herd instinct and causes a willingness to work together for the good of the whole, and it in itself is not evil. It’s a defense mechanism that surfaces in times of peril.

The evil comes when self-serving non- patriotic, politically minded types, decide to drive this herd towards their own end.

When we see this is happening, it's not time to break up the herd, its time to change the leaders.



As far as capitalism being evil, it is. But it’s the lesser of all the evils out there as far as I'm concerned.

What are the alternatives, communism? That’s a joke, the ‘in crowd’ ride in Bentleys and the masses ride bikes, and if you ask for more you’re going against your fellow man and declared a criminal against the state.

Or maybe sheiks are a better idea. Everything belongs to them and everybody else gets nothing

At least under capitalism you stand a chance.

Well, i would like to say some things:

1) Every value taked at it's extreme it's dangerous, it generates obliterance of mind and thought. (I do consider Patriotism an important value)
2) Arrogance is also a decease that strikes deep when the extreme is reached
3) Free speach, free will and freedom itself are utopies. Today every single government utilizes all the ways and means it have to get as most as possible social acceptance and support, the media is playing a deadly row at the same time it is fulfilling it's task at a glance.
Social engineering is used on the most extensive way by "our" elected rulers.
How to actually be able to define right and wrong under such circunstances? Are we able to actually get into a clean and pure environment to think and analyse the right? Is my right yours as well?

Humans are on a learning path, some more mature than others but all on the same way. Maturity comes with living experience and some times pain but not allways related to age.

I agree with LDX as we all should say what, and act as, we believe, but i also understand that there is people not mature enough to understand and accept it.
Also we have to be able to understand and accept our "oponent" believe.

Today the USA is wounded, very deep inside. Today USA is growing more and getting more mature, it is a natural process.
It happened after the civil war, it happened after WWI and WWII. After vietnam.
It happens all over the world.

P.S: sorry for any wrong spelling.

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Originally posted here by lord_darkside_x
now please don't turn this thread into a discussion of the opinions in the examples for they are just examples. but is it just me or has any one else found this happening to them [/B]

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haha.. big? its a bit.. HUGE?

In defense of LDX, he is a highly motivated guy who's not a just bunch of talk. He's started a web site dedicated to stopping social injustice and i know that he takes action IRT as well.

admirable traits.

although i can't say i always agree with his views, i can say i have a genuine respect for him.

i was a rebellious youth, for rebellions sake. when i said i grew out of it, i was speaking for myself in regard to pointless rebellion. i have not stopped speaking out or taking action when i feel its necessary. i was not telling him to grow up.

LDX your thoughts and feelings are 100% american and deserve to be spoken to those who will hear.

i will say this though, you'll get farther by being for the ideals set forth by our forefathers in the constitution, rather than by being against the present way of doing things, for justice for all, rather than against injustice. if your trying to uphold these ideals rather than trying to oust the scum, more people will listen and no one can/will say your un-american.

Being an outsider, I don't think patriotism is a bad think. Each and every race and country men follows it in one way or other...
But trying to be a world police man,will not help US.. It will certainly make a bad image of them in the outside world. Being very powerful in military as well as economic fields, other people will pretend to support US actions, but it is not because they support Ur activities, but they are forced to do so ...
i request to forgive me if i hurt anyone's feelings

This hasn't happened to me (YET), but this sounds like middle school bullying.

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Originally posted here by Zadok0552


Are you trying to dictate to me? You obviously have no idea of freedom, including my right to express myself in the way that I please. You obviously have NO IDEA of "freedom of speech." Did I hit a nerve? Are you a disrespectful child, like dark, who insults his/her mother and friends? Ansd then PRETENDS to understand what freedom of speech is about! HAH!

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I just find it rather amusing that you call me and LDX disrespectful kids when you run out of arguments. You can belive what you want about me I really don't care.
I think your post pretty much shows everyone who is what.

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Originally posted here by roccobarbi
Let me answer also to Guus and sOnIc, all in a single message. As a matter of fact patriotism is a disease of almost any group of people (let me use this term instead of "nation", which is a word I hate as a nonsense) in this (let me say) ****in' (I promise, it's my last bad word in this message) capitalistic world, be they americans, europeans, russians and even afghans. And let me say that I'm saying all this WITHOUT willing to insult any of you, I'm just against patriotism and I'm against patriots only in what concerns their ideas about (their?) nations.
If we speak about WWI, WWII, Vietnam, Etiopia (I don't know the english name), Falklands, Gulf war, Yugoslavia war, and even 9/11 and Afghanistan: who made money (or anything else) out of it? Surely not the people who fought and/or died, be they soldiers, terrorists and victims. What I mean with this confused (I admit it, but I have no time to write a better one now) speech? It's not another nation or group of proletarians, our enemy. It's capitalism, in every form and any nation.
How does it relates to patriotism? Well, I think no one should be patriot because patriotism (and nations themselves) is just a capitalistic stuff.
To use the words of Trotzskji: "I'm the most faithful citzien of my nation, and my nation is the whole world".
By now, that's all folks!
Roccobarbi.

PS: Let's try how much you trust your own ideas. If it's true that you accept and respect other people's ideas, you'll just answer without kicking me out of year.

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You do have some valid point although I oppose your criticism of capitalism. The problem I see with patriotism is that it creates a "us vs. them"-dilemma.
Also, if a nation becomes very patriotic, like America after 9/11. The people of said nation might accept certain actions taken by the government or certain groups that they would oppose under normal circumstances. (Warfare, invasion of privacy and so on) so in that sence patriotism serve against democracy and open debate which should be the pillars of any civilized state.

It's a very complex issue.

Cheers,

Mankan:

You hide under a guise of free speech and reasoned discussion, however you show your true colors when you demanded:

"You either tell lord_darkside_x to shut up and stand for the fact that you oppose your american freedom or you stand by his side for his right to express whatever is on his mind, wether you like it or not. That's what your freedom of speech is all about."

LDX ASKED FOR what I believe were honest responses regarding what appeared to me to be his problem getting along with his mother and co-workers. He also DID NOT want the examples to turn into a discussion themselves. Now, using deductive logic we can conclude that the discussion was requested to be regarding how he could better get along with his mother and co-workers since he seemed so upset about confrontations that he had with them.

Or more likely, he went to this forum to whine and have people tell him that he was right and that his mother, co-workers and Americans in general have this terrible problem that causes them to intimidate and ostracize those who don't agree with them. LDX takes no responsibility, it seems, for this conflict with either his mother or his co-workers.

Notice that I have not been discussing whether or not I agree with LDX's opinions.
And, LDX, I have read all of your postings.

Remember, LDX requested opinions regarding his problem. When you - MANKAN - or anyone else then tries to control the discussion by telling me what I can or can not say (...as long as I don't swear) , then you are engaged in nothing other than HYPOCRISY!

Also, if you want to pile on anitpoints, then that's fine with me. I don't need to belong to a forum, where injustice reigns. My ancestors left Scandanavia several generations ago, and I can definately better appreciate their decision after reading your postings. HYPOCRISY!

hay this country was founded on a few things war and indiference that is what keeps the whole system running smooth..so that no one person or peticular set of ideals runs the country....so the next time some on says that you are being unamerican by disagreeing tell them that they can go to a dictatorship and see how thay like it...

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Or more likely, he went to this forum to whine and have people tell him that he was right and that his mother, co-workers and Americans in general have this terrible problem that causes them to intimidate and ostracize those who don't agree with them. LDX takes no responsibility, it seems, for this conflict with either his mother or his co-workers.

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first... i am not whining, just pointing out a trend i have noticed. second i do not consider them "conflicts" but differences of opinion. i do take responsibilty for the things i said, but my only point was that i found it strange that people thought it was wrong to have an opinion. i was also pointing out that i thought it was bizarre that having a converse opinion means that you are an america hater and should leave the country.

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This hasn't happened to me (YET), but this sounds like middle school bullying.

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no not a case of middle school bullying. more a case of adults with there strong convictions.

now... for those of you who felt i was "whing about negatives" i was not whining, just pointing out the annoyance that people would only give negatives and not either give a reason with their points nor would take the time to respond with an opinion in the forum.

i did want to also say thanks to tedob for what he said, i am honored to know that he respects me and hope that he knows the feeling is mutual.

I'm by no means a patriot, but nor am I anti-american although I find the government's "democracy" nothing more than a hippocricy. I basically view it as communism in disguise but we gotta admit that as a whole the country isn't a bad place to live I'm just against the anal retentive rich fat white idiots who think they're smart just because their parents had enough money to send 'em through private school and the finest colleges. I mean...look at how much money they waste and what's even worse...anybody ever looked at the report on the money that they LOSE?? And I mean literally like "where did it go" lose! It's like in the billion dollar range. The government is careless and hipocritical but when I compare it to other countries...we aint really all that bad so...