net send - a wonderful skiddie deterrant

The other day my daughter came to me and said she could not get on-line with her computer. She was using my sons account, which was fine because he was not home and naturally not using it. I try the computer myself and get an error telling me that this account is in use, access denied. after determining that the computer is set up right I go to my box and log into the system ( I am the Director of the ISP with full admin rights ) I check to see who is on-line and lo and behold it says my son is on. Knowing he is out of town I immediatly go to the radius logs to look for anomylies, I see that one of my sons friends (whose account recently expired due to non payment) tried to log in several times without success, then I see his attempts at trying other combos of user/pass. Then by sheer luck he stumbled on my sons combo and was on-line, and had been for over 250 minutes. So, first I just thought of booting him off and changing the password, that was too easy and that would just entice him to try harder. So I remembered "net send" So I sent him a message that read:

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You are Ilegally logged into another user's account!
Your IP address is xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx. Your call is originating from (I inserted his address here)
And your phone number is xxx-xxx-xxxx. An e-mail with this information is being sent to the Administrator of this network, and copies are being sent to the local authorities and the F.B.I.
You will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law! Have a nice day.

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In less than 5 seconds my "son" logged off. I asked my son later to go by his friends house and see whats up. He came home and told me that he had formatted his hard drive, disassembled his system, and had it hidden in various places around the house. My son just rolled on the floor laughing at him, when he asked if our system had automated security.

I have not heard from this kid yet, but my radius logs are almost clear of attempts of hacking into the system, I Believe that I found the skiddie that I have been looking to nail for months.

It's funny. :D

Cool, is that true? Are you really director of the ISP? I need somethin answered plz, can you just connect directly to the backbone and use that as the internet connection?? If I could do dat, I would never leave my ISP building. But fortunately my sister's work has an OC3 line, they don't pay for all of it, but enough to have lots of fun testing it. Lol, I had setup my own server, but the IS guy found out and got rid of it. Ah well. That is funny stuff though, you should've added is something like "I'm calling your mommy and daddy" or "I am now changing all your grades to Fs" or "YOU HAVE JUST WON A GRAND PRIZE, ALL EXPENSES PAID TRIP TO THE SLAMMER". Would have ruined the message bit, but would've been hilarious. Still, really funny though.

hahahaha nice work

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Cool, is that true? Are you really director of the ISP? I need somethin answered plz, can you just connect directly to the backbone and use that as the internet connection??

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Yes it is very true -- LoL.
Yes I am, and what I can connect to at my office is 2 Fiber Optic T1's roughly 3.15 mbit of bandwidth.
Yeah its sweet, on a new install of Win2k it only takes about 30 minutes total to update and patch it. I have had downloads reach over 700kilobytes per second. But, I work out of my home most of the time and use a standard modem and dial-up account.

::biggrinb

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Yeah its sweet, on a new install of Win2k it only takes about 30 minutes total to update and patch it. I have had downloads reach over 700kps. But, I work out of my home most of the time and use a standard modem and dial-up account.

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Hehe, damn. Lots of patches. That sucks, but MS is MS, it is the price you use for the wide range of apps and the support of other users out there. Plus the easy to use interface, still they charge lots and put you through hell trying to secure your system. Ah well. So I see you are a dial up provider, dang, I was hoping you had like an OC48 or something, that would be insane, you could have the power of a DDoS attack many times over, ahem, not that it would be proper to use the connection in that way, just hypothesizing. *runs to his sister's work, uses the OC3 line to get revenge on those who DDoS'd him last year*

Wow...just had a tiff with the wife...and really needed the laugh.... Thankx!! I will keep gettin' good chuckles out of this for a while...

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Originally posted here by aeallison


Yes it is very true -- LoL.
Yes I am, and what I can connect to at my office is 2 Fiber Optic T1's roughly 3.15 mbit of bandwidth.
Yeah its sweet, on a new install of Win2k it only takes about 30 minutes total to update and patch it. I have had downloads reach over 700kps. But, I work out of my home most of the time and use a standard modem and dial-up account.

::biggrinb

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Ummm... am I missing something or perhaps I've been up for too many hours in a row -- isn't 3.15mbit closer to about 400kbps? And why does it make a difference if it's fiber if it's only a couple Ts? (actually sounds more like a T1c) LOL

Cute story, nonetheless - I wrote something similiar in nagture for my MS honeypots a while back... seems to be pretty good at reducing the number of "repeat offenders" if you will... though I don't use MS products unless I can't avoid it (eg. UT only runs on Winblowz).

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Ummm... am I missing something or perhaps I've been up for too many hours in a row -- isn't 3.15mbit closer to about 400kbps? And why does it make a difference if it's fiber if it's only a couple Ts? (actually sounds more like a T1c) LOL

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Fiber is better and much faster, our provider for the fiber said that 30,000 + simultainious phone conversations can take place on a single strand of fiber, we have 2 strands, We can send a ping packet to the west coast and back about 5000mi round trip in less than 4ms.
Regular T1s are on copper and the longer the wire the more resistance, fiber has no resistance at all, hence our data travels at the speed of light. the only thing that slows our customers down is the analog cannection to the CO from their phones. And besides, I am quoting speeds reported by windows software....you are correct in your assumption. But, I have not the same experiance with copper T1s.

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Originally posted here by aeallison

Fiber is better and much faster, our provider for the fiber said that 30,000 + simultainious phone conversations can take place on a single strand of fiber, we have 2 strands, We can send a ping packet to the west coast and back about 5000mi round trip in less than 4ms.
Regular T1s are on copper and the longer the wire the more resistance, fiber has no resistance at all, hence our data travels at the speed of light. the only thing that slows our customers down is the analog cannection to the CO from their phones. And besides, I am quoting speeds reported by windows software....you are correct in your assumption. But, I have not the same experiance with copper T1s.

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Hmmm... but you don't get any additional benefit out of those additional strands of fiber - it's just there to make expansion a bit easier for the phone companies (much easier to throw someone on a strand them to have to dedicate copper to them); so it's essentially more economical for the phone companies... however, in the case of back-hoe accidents, the mean time to restore goes up exponentially.

Regular T1s may be on copper, but don't they both generally go through a local loop and back to the CO? Sure, you can run a much longer strand of fiber with fewer errors, but it's not like most cities don't already have adequate repeaters. (and I think by resistance you might mean interference?

In fact, I've read a few reports that would actually indicate that near capacity, fiber is actually slightly slower than copper. (and from what I seem to remember from physics, electron drift is generally fairly slow (ie. current) while the electric signal actually moves at the speed of light)

<edit>The theories on the slowness seem to tend towards the physical make-up of the packets on each media and the conversion of electrical impulses in to and out of photon energy</edit>

In short, I guess what I'm trying to say is that what tends to make you faster or slower than one ISP or another seems to have more to do with such things as router configurations, capacity of the line, protocols used, and the provider... most copper issues I've personally seen tend to just be a crappy line or similiar.

they should just lay OC12 fiber always and sublease it cause OC12 fiber and t1 fiber are the same and if someone subleaseing it wants to change what they got they can do it without needing to have to lay more wireing (the essential problem with copper). Personally I would have sent the message hey <kids name> you have illigally accessed our systems we've dispatched a team of trained assassins to kill you, have a nice day.

" (and I think by resistance you might mean interference)" , heh heh, I love semantic arguements, I think what you both meant is that, in a metal medium, electrons meet w/ resistance which causes interference and signal degredation. . .*snickers*. . .sorry, I couldn't help myself. . .

you weren't concerned about what information was being given out by the use of 'net send'?

ok, i have been thinking a long time about the data speed thruput of an oc line...... or mose spacificly an oc192....... you cant just connect it into a normal computer can you? what special hardware do you need to get on installed...... for example, i have a 600mhz 192 ram box with a 6bb hdd....... that wouldnt be able to handle it would it? what would i need?

aeallison:

I have been playing around with net send and with many net send anonymous senders. The problem I have run into that is that net send does not work without the 2 users being on the same network. Seeing as 99% of the time that I am on the computer I am not on a network that limits me a lot. Im guessing the person you messaged was not on the same network as you so I am curious as to how you did that.

enable/bind netbios to a transport such as tcp.

It really is a long time ago I had to laugh this much, hahaha. The kid disassambled his pc and hid it all over the place, hahahaa. O wow this is enough reason to start an ISP biz myself just to see if it happens to me to some once. Very much thanks for the laugh. :D

hmmmm...against my better judgement.

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That made no sense and is completely out of contet

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wow - answer someone's question and you get negged - i love it.

the sense and the contet(sic) lies a(single) post up from the one you anonymously targetted and marked...given your profound ability to read - i'm guessing the contet(sic) would have been established, although i'm still questionable about how much sense it would have made to you.

Oh, to have had a webcam pointed in that kids direction when he got that message. Kudos to you, aeallison!

I've got another to add to that droby. . .
"resistance and interference are too seperate ideas that have nothing to do w/ semantics"


Heh, I think I realize that. . .and my arguement was, and still is, a semantic one, but in the context that the statement was written, they do go together, b/c those were the words chosen by two other people in this thread. . .oh yeah btw, in your infinite wisdom I really don't see how you can say I was wrong. . .electrons meet w/ resistance from the metal that they are travelling through(yeah yeah, electrons don't travel they rise to a higher, blah blah), but the resistance does cause interference w/ the signal being sent down the wire, interference, or to be more technical, signal degradation. . .one more thing, whoever negged me, be a man, or woman and put your name w/ the assignment, what are you scared of??

draziw,

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In short, I guess what I'm trying to say is that what tends to make you faster or slower than one ISP or another seems to have more to do with such things as router configurations, capacity of the line, protocols used, and the provider... most copper issues I've personally seen tend to just be a crappy line or similiar.

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The crappy switches at the CO and bad copper.

zepherin,

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they should just lay OC12 fiber always and sublease it cause OC12 fiber and t1 fiber are the same and if someone subleaseing it wants to change what they got they can do it without needing to have to lay more wireing (the essential problem with copper).

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That is what our capacity is right now ( I think ) we have a total of 8 strands of fiber 6 being on standby.

bludgeon,

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I think what you both meant is that, in a metal medium, electrons meet w/ resistance which causes interference and signal degredation.

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Very accurate if not totally correct.

droby10,

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you weren't concerned about what information was being given out by the use of 'net send'?

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Huh?

LoggOff,

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ok, i have been thinking a long time about the data speed thruput of an oc line...... or mose spacificly an oc192....... you cant just connect it into a normal computer can you? what special hardware do you need to get on installed...... for example, i have a 600mhz 192 ram box with a 6bb hdd....... that wouldnt be able to handle it would it? what would i need?

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The fiber runs into a multiplexor, into CAT 5 to the router. (digital back to analog conversion here )

xxsharkexx,

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I have been playing around with net send and with many net send anonymous senders. The problem I have run into that is that net send does not work without the 2 users being on the same network. Seeing as 99% of the time that I am on the computer I am not on a network that limits me a lot. Im guessing the person you messaged was not on the same network as you so I am curious as to how you did that.

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He was on the same network, DHCP asigns an IP each time you log in, also I knew that he was using Win2k, so I had his IP and knew he was on the same net/subnet.

And finally Thank you allenb1963, and anyone I may have missed.

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Originally posted here by aeallison
draziw,

The crappy switches at the CO and bad copper.

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Aye... telco's don't seem to do a very good job cross-connecting at the prem, either.

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He was on the same network, DHCP asigns an IP each time you log in, also I knew that he was using Win2k, so I had his IP and knew he was on the same net/subnet.

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All you really need is the IP address and a means of sending the SMB dialog - you don't even need to be on the same continent, let alone network.

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bludgeon:

electrons meet w/ resistance from the metal that they are travelling through(yeah yeah, electrons don't travel they rise to a higher, blah blah), but the resistance does cause interference w/ the signal being sent down the wire, interference, or to be more technical, signal degradation. . .

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Hmmm, with all due respect (and I might be phrasing this poorly)... it was my understanding that twisted-pair wire is twisted (in a loop, no less) such that any interference with the circuit ends up crossing the loops in opposite directions - so the induced current is both equal and opposite in direction, nullifying the effect (ie. cancelling the effect).

At the same rate, optical signals through waveguide devices are susceptible to the same types of interferences as copper and will experience the same types of loss (though there are probably relatively fewer naturally occuring sources of optiocal noise "at room temperature" - LOL).

Thank you very much for the help. I have never been on such a positive MB before. Im really glad I read about this place. Normally a newb question like that would get flamed.

We've had a fiber connection installed recently too (at work)... The main advantage is for the ISP: the fiber (at least the equipment they installed us) can support up to 10Mbps, and they rate limit us to 1Mbps (Yeah it's actually less than a full T1: monetary reasons for now...) but they can upgrade us in no time...

As for media speeds, see http://www.nwfusion.com/newsletters/.../01416225.html
extratct:

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"Thick Coax Cable: Signal travels at .77c (231,000 km/sec)

" Thin Coax Cable: Signal travels at .65c (195,000 km/sec)

" Twisted Pair Cable: Signal travels at .59c (177,000 km/sec)

" Fiber Cable: Signal travels at .66c (198,000 km/sec)

" AUI Cable: Signal travels at .65c (195,000 km/sec)

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And I think someone was asking the throughput of an oc-192:
OC level base speed (OC-1) is 51.84 Mbps
Each level indicates a multiple of the base speed, so oc-192= 51.84Mbps * 192 = 9953.28Mbps ( or 10Gbps...)


Oh and..

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I have had downloads reach over 700kps.

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Downloads of 700 kilometers per seconds?!! ;)

Ammo

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As for media speeds, see http://www.nwfusion.com/newsletters...2/01416225.html
extratct:
quote:

"Thick Coax Cable: Signal travels at .77c (231,000 km/sec)

" Thin Coax Cable: Signal travels at .65c (195,000 km/sec)

" Twisted Pair Cable: Signal travels at .59c (177,000 km/sec)

" Fiber Cable: Signal travels at .66c (198,000 km/sec)

" AUI Cable: Signal travels at .65c (195,000 km/sec)




And I think someone was asking the throughput of an oc-192:
OC level base speed (OC-1) is 51.84 Mbps
Each level indicates a multiple of the base speed, so oc-192= 51.84Mbps * 192 = 9953.28Mbps ( or 10Gbps...)

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Great info ammo. So how far can you run thick coax without boosting the amplitude? And is it as cheap as fiber?

Thick coax is 10base-5
(Thin is 10 base-2)

10 base-5 standards state a "thick" segment should be no longer than 500m (hence the 5 in 10 base-5...)

as for cost, I have no idea, never used it, and most probably never will...

The thing is, signal propagation speed in teleco purposes isn't quite as important as througput (and distance...)

So eventhough thick as higher propagation speeds, the clear winner is still fiber, because of throughput and range...

Ammo

Thanks ammo.

Excellent, excellent strategy! Didn't understand everything you did to catch this guy (I'm certainly no ISP admin), but I loved the net send solution!

Delyn

I stand corrected...

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attempts of hacking into the system

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I recieved a neg reaction from someone who thinks this is bad jargon, so I will try very hard to refrain from mistaking "hack" for "crack".

My apoligies to the person who chooses to remain anonymous, and thinks me an retard.

Sorry for the bad grammer, but....

P.S. thanks for the little grey box.