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Yep, it looks like the Peoples Republic of China is ready to give Bill & co. the boot big time. Can they build an OS that makes them independent from Microsoft without reverse engineering Windows? Only time will tell, but I wish them luck all the same.
Read all about it at: http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99992573
I have question: Why are so many *trying* to mimmic Windows98 to run MSOffice when there are MSOffice clones up the wazoo?
China and anybody else in the world has a chance to break ties with MS by going away from MS and looking elsewhere, be it *NIX, Mac,OS/2, or whatever. I mean, if you wanna use WIndows, use Windows. It does not make much sense to make a clone of WIn98 to let an already proprietary program to run on it... can they just switch over to OpenOffice, KOffice or other alternatives? It's silly...
Or am I missing something?
I think the idea is wonderful. How quickly can they have it available to the market w/ the kind of media and marketing M$ has been able to muster? They claim the OS would be ready in about a year. Unfornuately I would fear that in the end the abilities of M$ as a marketer would all empowering in the market. Would the developers of the new OS be able to match the marketing ploys of M$ in a pretty cornered market? I hope so for the benefit of all end users.
Cool article.
Regards.
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seems kind of remniscent of the ideology behind Lindows when it was first conceived.
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All I want to know is if the welcome message will be changed to "Welcome comrade".
Chefer: Given that it's being developed from open source code, I would venture to guess it will be priced below Win9x, if not free, at least in China. That feature alone would be a factor MS would have a tough time burying marketing-wise.
To alittlenumb: The reason they are all aiming for a 'windows-like' product is because of the interoperability it would offer. Because MS dominates 95% of the desktop market, it makes sense to make a product that is windows-friendly. There are plenty of well-proven apps already written for windows, which means less dependence on developers after the OS is released. Using existing products with the new OS will significantly shorten and flatten the learning curve for the entire country while it is being weaned from its MS dependency. It actually looks like a well thought out direction IMHO.
Um, since when. The hardware part is fine, but as for functionality, I would have to disagree. For one, if sun does follow through with it's plan to chareg for staroffice, (i don't know if they did yet, did they?) then the 2 main options for word processing for linux cost money. Kind of goes against the whole open source/free thing.Quote:
Linux runs on the same hardware as Windows and offers similar functionality
Sun started charging when they released 6.0...April 1 this year, if I remember correctly.
China is more communist in name than in reality. It's more of a large oligarchy :) China is 'communist' in the sense that it is a historical connection to the past, largely ignored and fading quickly. The main party is the 'communist' party, but it isn't as if capitalism doesn't happen.
I wish the DOJ would just break up MS or force release of Win98 code and be done with it :)
I guess I need to start brushing up on my mandolin.
Uh, didn't you mean "banjo"?Quote:
I guess I need to start brushing up on my mandolin.
:cool:
ok firstly it would not have all the hardware support that the modern OSs have, for 2 reasons. 1, its new, nobody uses it, nobody codes for it. 2, china has all these restrictions (atleast from the US) about supercomputers not being alowed to be shipped in (i remember that the G4s wernt alowed in china tho i dont know if thats over yet) so they wont be able to develop for the hardware they dont have...... thus no hardware support for the new stuff.
secondly. hell its china, if they want to make a clone competitor for windows why not just revoke their patent (if they have one) get the code (or reverse engener it) and re label it all and call it "China Chopsticks '03"? its not like they havent done worse before. that and they can just outlaw windows all together. thatll give them a reason to revokethe patent. if M$ dosnt like it just burry the complaint in paperwork........ i mean comeon! how hard is that (from a nation the size of chinas' perspective, not from yours or mine)
and lastly (i hope) im happy with linux. we get about everything free. have more power and more control of the box, and if we dont want it it can be handed off so we dont need to use it. we can do just about everything we want. wanna make a program, theres a dozen different language compilers, take your pick. want a new look, it comes with half a dozen x windows frontends...... and tools up the wazoo for tweaking your system...... i mean, how can you not be on this board and not see that as advantages?
Well, so far it looks like the trend is going against the chinese, so they better come up with a good marketing plan if they want to sell this thing in the US. IMHO, a free distro would be the ultimate marketing ploy, but thats just me.
LogOff, there are internation copyrights and patents, MS might be able to take this to an international court.But who says china plans to sell it's OS worldwide? I hope they don't. I don't want their OS, it would probably have lousy support, and few programs, and be overpriced to pay for things like shipping. Kind of reminds me of lindows. I hate lindows.Quote:
a free distro would be the ultimate marketing ploy, but thats just me.
Well here goes the rant..... from a "tool user" in the field (neither a windows fanatic, nor linux zealot).
The company I work for, as well as the companies I support run Windows on the desktop... flat out. Nothing else is going to happen, unless it's as easy to use (and by use I mean configure, set up, and support, not just use). Linux (as much as the zealots out there may think) is just NOT the answer yet. I will give it kudo's on striving for a more user friendly and "desktopable" environment... however the truth is, I dont have the time, and my clients dont have the money to migrate and train everyone on this "fad". I use Linux (as well as FreeBSD, Solaris, Tru64, Irix, and yes... even NT4.0 server) in the back end... simply put FreeBSD, Solaris, Tru64 (the offspring of digital unix), and NT4.0 have been around long enough to grow and become stable enough for me to trust in a production environment.
Linux has as well (I do have issues with the bloat and some changes associated with the migration to desktopability, but hey... I dont have to install X). It runs solid, reliable, and efficient at the back end. If China were to get into the race for a new desktop (client side) OS... I have nothing but good wishes for them, however.... much like winXP... you can bet that I will not have it on my network untill it grows up a little. I will say the same about any OS... new technology is for edge, dev, and bastion instances... when it comes to production and my core services... I will stick with those that have been around long enough to prove stability.
IMHO, if the project lifts off, in the future I may be loading a chinese OS clientside everywhere. As much as you all hate M$... theres a reason why they happen to be so large, much like theres a reason why good open source projects such as Samba, Apache, and even Linux.... are still around. Guess we can just wait and see eh??
Um, couple of things here. For one, linux is an offshoot of unix, which has been around a hell of a lot longer than windows. Much longer. Red hat, the leader in the linux distro world, has made an extremely user friendly install, all you have to do is point and click, almost as easy as windows, except for adding in some info like DNS servers, and some X-windows configuration. If you sent everybody home with a printed copy of red hat for dummies, they could easily set up red hat and use it. And as for "fad", well, a fad is something that becomes extremely popular for a short period of time, and then dies out. That doesn't fit linux at all, not even close. Linux has been around for quite a while, and has been making slow but somewhat steady gains in OS business, Windows, on the other hand, exploded into the business, so, Windows seems to fit the description of a fad better than linux.Quote:
I will give it kudo's on striving for a more user friendly and "desktopable" environment... however the truth is, I dont have the time, and my clients dont have the money to migrate and train everyone on this "fad".
I suggest you read those anti-MS threads. I argued for MS a few times, and so did others. Those threads are a good place to hear out some good arguments. They might change your mind, or confirm what you always though. :)Quote:
As much as you all hate M$... theres a reason why they happen to be so large
Yes, I know linux is an offshoot of unix... however due to the nature of the beast... it has some growing to do, this is my opinion, and I will stick with it...Quote:
Um, couple of things here. For one, linux is an offshoot of unix, which has been around a hell of a lot longer than windows. Much longer. Red hat, the leader in the linux distro world, has made an extremely user friendly install, all you have to do is point and click, almost as easy as windows, except for adding in some info like DNS servers, and some X-windows configuration. If you sent everybody home with a printed copy of red hat for dummies, they could easily set up red hat and use it. And as for "fad", well, a fad is something that becomes extremely popular for a short period of time, and then dies out. That doesn't fit linux at all, not even close. Linux has been around for quite a while, and has been making slow but somewhat steady gains in OS business, Windows, on the other hand, exploded into the business, so, Windows seems to fit the description of a fad better than linux.
I dont like redhat, I prefer SuSE and yes, there are plenty of distro's out there with fancy point and click installs... but you come walk my CEO, as well as every bigwig at each of my clients locations through snapping in that off branded cd burner, a webcam, realone player, whatever msaccess clone you have out there, windows style (samba) file sharing, and whatever other applications they want "NOW" (you can also pay the difference in time lost to configure said items, as well as foot the bill for over 1700 copies of red hat for dummies).
BTW. I still have (and use) my redhat 4.2 ISO's... I know it has been around for a while, but the MS environment is controlled (which leads to better standardization.... and somewhat faster "focused" development... with the tradeoff of course of market control, and the ability to force changes on customers)
It's a touchy subject, and to each his own I guess.... I happen to lub Linux, just as much as I lub my FreeBSD (okay I lub BSD more)... and I'm not particular at all with windows... but the reality is (especially in this economy) I myself, as well as my superiors, coworkers, and clients are busy, theres no time to migrate to something new that everyone will have to adjust to.... theres no huge venture capital feed to pay for the cost of migration (yes open source may be easily obtained... but we're talking man hours here) and like I said... it's just not there yet as far as the desktopability my clients need. (course I wont hesitate to roll out Linux at the back end)
Truth is.... I should know better than to try and argue the point of a tool user.... theres too many tilted views (even mine is tilted... as I hate 98, wont use XP, but instead rely on 2k and NT4.... oh yeah... did I mention I dont use X.... ) and it only ends up in a super long thread, with super long rants from people like myself arguing a subject that in reality.... is purely opinion based. "shrugs" oh and windows exploded into the business around 3.0.... so its been around quiiiite a while as well... (in fact... you could say that windows itself has been around longer than packaged distro's such as redhat)
I've read that book, it is good, but some it is superflous. You could just take out some key points, and write a quick guide for red hat, and copy it, and distribute it. It would save time, money, and be a good manual for users.Quote:
as well as foot the bill for over 1700 copies of red hat for dummies
It is a matter of neccessity then, their loss. If they don't recognize linux's strength within networks, then it is their loss. I like win2k as well, but I enjoy using XP so much more.Quote:
I dont like redhat, I prefer SuSE and yes, there are plenty of distro's out there with fancy point and click installs... but you come walk my CEO, as well as every bigwig at each of my clients locations through snapping in that off branded cd burner, a webcam, realone player, whatever msaccess clone you have out there, windows style (samba) file sharing, and whatever other applications they want "NOW" (you can also pay the difference in time lost to configure said items, as well as foot the bill for over 1700 copies of red hat for dummies).
Easily remidied with some PR cloning software. Software that'll let you take the config of a PC and send it over to another, I remeber hearing of one for linux a while ago, I forget what is was called though.Quote:
theres no huge venture capital feed to pay for the cost of migration (yes open source may be easily obtained... but we're talking man hours here)
well it depends...is there some kind of spyware in it?
I read this somewhere:
Linux is a very user-friendly os. However, it is very particular as to who it makes friends with.
I think the whole point of the chinese, though, is to make a product that MS can't step in and lowball. They want what little payback, or self respect, they can get from making an OS that'll be cheaper then what MS will drop their prices to in an effort to force competition out. I'm with Terr. . .the Dept. of Just. needs to break MS up, release the source, and put a stop to the practices that are just wrong. . .sick, and wrong.
khakisrule > i dont know anything about politics and laws like that......... i never had to deal with the law, i never plan to, and i never plan to be in an international court. so couldnt they just say that M$ is anti-chinese and ban them from the country? something like that.....im just guessing now...... well i was just guessing to begin with soooooo......
he he Khakis: I typically clone with dd... works great, fast and efficient... and I do agree with you that Linux has some excellent strengths in networking... but I still think its a little ways from becoming a good desktop (although it's getting closer fast!!! lets hope it keeps going...)
and for those of us minimalists.... thank god for slak and core he he
I just hope it is not based on the source code for the Sega Dreamcast. I personally can't say I would switch over to an Operating System made in China. Exspecially if it is as closed source as Microsoft, who knows what type of spy ware would be lurking inside. You know for a fact that you will not find the government using it. Actually, alot of the organizations I have dealt with are switching over to RedHat.
Hey khakisrule, there is at least one other major option for word processing in linux: OpenOffice. I use it occasionally, and it seems to work pretty well for the basic options. It has a little trouble with powerpoint and some of the formatting options in the word processor, but all in all, it's a great alternative to StarOffice. If you go read Sun's explanation of why they started charging for StarOffice, you'll notice that they even mention OpenOffice v1.0 as a good alternative.
I voted dont know, but it came to me:
Why would I suppport a clone of a product I despise? Why not try to make a good Linux Dist, that is just as user friendly as Windows? Just my 2 cents.
ArmyofOne,
China tried that already(linux dist), havent heard anything about how successful they were, but here is a link to their site.
http://www.redflag-linux.com/eindex.html
IchNiSan
I think that the world really needs to break ties with MS but i'm not so sure that china should be the solution. Other operating systems have similarities to windows. I work for a school and we are currently looking at the MS licenses and also for a alternative to windows. I went to a weeklong class last week and we explored Linux as a possible replacement. I was very impressed with RedHat 7.2 and found it easy to use.
I know that everyone on this site is not from the United States, but those of you who are need to stop and think for a minute. Our economy is going to the gutter right now and it has been for a year and a half. Worldcom is filing for bankruptcy, Intel is laying off 4000, Ford is laying off and closing plants like crazy over the next 4 to 5 years. And for anyone who has worked in the textiles industry over the past 15 years knows that we have given to much to other countries. I used to work for a clothing manufacturer. And in the four years I worked there 5 U.S. plants closed and sprang back up in Central America. Look at the tongue on your shoes. Does it say China? What about that bag that you carry to work/school/gym?
Most of you may hate MS and will fall behind anything other than it, but now is not the time to try and break up one of our largest companies. You may think that they can't code properly, that they write proporietary software, and they charge too much. But MS isn't a person. It isn't Bill Gates. What MS means is that an American company finally got the tech market by the balls. And we need to keep it there. Sure break up MS, throw their code out every where. Ruin everything that the EMPLOYEES strived for. Let their jobs go to the gutter too. Who cares right? Just as long as it's an open system. Just as long as we can download the source for free. Who cares about the jobs of Americans? Well I do. And I will stick with MS. I will stick with Red Hat, Mandrake, and Novell. But no matter which one is better I won't knock them as long as an American made it. If any of you read the article about the Chinese OS, it says that that are making it so that a foreign OS isn't the dominant one in THEIR country. Well screw them. We can buy their clothes, their shoes, their electronics, their (insert name of any product here), but they can't buy anything from us? Well I'll tell you where they can stick that. Doesn't it bother anyone that our coutry, the supposed world leader in the economic community, imports more dollars worth than it exports every year for more than 20 years? If anyone has taken basic math it doesn't take long to figure out that if we spend more than we make then we go BROKE! Not that it would happen soon if ever but it's just a wake up call to everyone who never thought about it. Support your country where ever you may be from.