Hollywood hacking

Mesa was watching TSS just now, (I got jar jar on the brain) and heard the story about how hollywood is lobbying the U.S. government to allow them broader powers to protect their copyrights. That part is from an online story, from TSS I heard that they want to be able to do things like hack file sharing networks to protect their copyrighted software, hmm, methinks me hears violation of civil liberties. Because most file sharing networks now use the gnutella protocol, which makes file sharing connect 2 single computers instead of going through a central server. That is some bad stuff, I better get me firewall ready, and jot down any IP addresses that come my way, and then I'll have to get my revenge on them. But seriously, that is scary stuff, what if they get even a little of the power they want, it could be serious trouble for file sharing networks, which in my opinion is why IRC is still and will always be, and has been for a long time the ultimate file sharing network. After all, on IRC, the servers can protect you, on IRC you can make a channel secret, and many IRC servers are hosted by people with bandwidth to spare & small companies that have bandwidth to spare, companies that would most likely do all they can to protect you. Maybe kazaa users could come up with something to help protect the users. We'll have to see if copyright owners get any power, here is to hoping they don't.

khakisrule > It wouldnt suprise me to see hollywood suing, and then if they loose, just ddos'ing filesharing systems off the net. I agree on the IRC thing, and lets not forget private ftp servers or old fashioned email, thou email wouldnt be too useful for sending large programs, but mainly mp3s.

Yes, FTP servers are pretty useful, although, unfortunately, easily brute forced, and many cracks are commonplace for FTP servers. And yes, e-mail would be a pretty good idea for mp3s but then people's ISPs would start cracking down on people clogging up their servers, and I doubt any web based e-mail providers would let people send attachments that large.

where in hell have you people been? they've been doing this for over year now, publicly. They lobbied during the passing of the patriot act, to include a section in it to provide them protection from litigation for damages under 5000 dollars, to PRIVATE computers, that occur while they are protecting their property, breaking into computers and deleting illegle copies of their files. their request was turned down, and i still think they should be prosecuted under the clause that makes it a crime to try to profit from sept 11th. The point is its no great secret. Theres been quit allot published about their methods of DoSing the P2P servers that are sharing their files.

our governments know and condones their actions. nothing was done about it, we lost.

if you really want to find out more about it just do a forum search on it, its was a much discussed topic at the time it was happening, petitions were signed, letters sent, but it seems, just not enough people cared, were too busy downloading mp3s or they thought it was a good thing.

sorry didn't mean to wake you.

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where in hell have you people been?

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Geez man, I didn't know, don't have to freak out on me. I didn't know, I am not american, so I don't usually follow american news much. Sorry for my ignorance, I'll do a search though and read up on it.

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sorry didn't mean to wake you.

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Wake who???

Want to read a little bit about it? Use the following....
http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1106-945720.html

Just to give you a little quick background....Hollywood wants congress to give them a legal right to hack the systems of private citizens to combat piracy. They say that is not their intent, but it is infact exactly what it gives them the right to do. In other words, what would get you or I sentenced to life in prison would be perfectly legal for movie studios and the record industry. I think what we need here is a grass roots movement that lets all of our reps in Washington know that a vote for this bill means a vote for whomever their opponent is in the next election. If we don't take a stand now, we end up with a government "of the corporations, for the corporations, and by the corporations". And people, we are perilously close to that already. All you have to do is a simple email to your representatives and senators and state your position on this matter, along with your intention to actively campaign against them should they reject the voice of their constituents. Get 'em where it hurts, in the voting booth!! I took the liberty of providing links to both houses...send them an email and then give us a post to let us know you let your voice be heard.

U.S. Senate:
http://www.senate.gov/senators/senator_by_state.cfm

.U.S. House of Representatives:
http://clerk.house.gov/members/index.php

Ted is right in short unless your a corp such things are allowed you do it face your own country's laws. Corps want it both ways reverse engineer a competor is ok a student or researcher that may reverse engineer is criminal..At lest the realty of the DMCA in the US. Corps have the legal right to DDos but you cannot?

Yeah. Corps can hire the best security pofessionals money can buy and then beat the crap out of your computer online, whereas you, must learn everything by yourself, and attempt to safeguard your computer as best you can. Seems pretty bad. Imagine doing everything you can because you just downloaded star wars, and then you firewall yourself up something good, and rectrict access to pretty much everything. And then you find out your files are deleted, because somebody found an exploit with your firewall. That would be insane, an invasion of personal property. And how could the average user protect against that?? And Palemoon, :), that is the first time I have read a post of yours in a thread I started that wasn't hard to understand, :).

Here is a little bit more info for you good people out there. This link will take you to a commentary written by Howard Berman...the very man who wants to give big corporations these rights. FYI, he represents the 26th district of California...are you listening, voters?

http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1107-943031.html

Just to clarify, I do not condone theft of intellectual property or copywritten material....but I don't support the loss of my privacy either. If you want to hack into my home, be prepared to have an a**-load of silicon-buckshot coming your way.

What would happen if hollyword hacked a system not in the US? Would they not be breaking the law of another country?

Damn.. I was just about to post a thread on this too. :p
Here's a link to the full story.

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The draft bill doesn't specify what techniques, such as viruses, worms, denial-of-service attacks, or domain name hijacking, would be permissible.

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- WTF were they on when they thought of this idea? Allowing certain orginazions to legally f*uck your box up. Great.. If some one downloads and shares MP3s, they can be attacked. Argh! And how do they think P2P networks and users will respond to viruses, worms, DOS attacks, and domain name hijacking? This new law will do more damage than good. What if a virus or worm got out of hand? What if P2P networks and users decided to fight back useing the same techniques. It would be a mess. One word comes to mind: DIGITAL LOCKDOWN

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Coble and Berman have jointly written a second draft bill that could sharply limit Americans' rights relating to copying music, taping TV shows, or transferring files through the Internet.

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Wonderful.. More laws to sharply limit Americans' rights. Instead of limiting our rights they should be enforceing and improving the ones we have.

This will probably piss a lot of people off, but oh well, its gotta be said...

<rant>
Ok, I personally can't stand the RIAA or the MPAA, and would like to see them both shut down, but I just want to know one thing. Why is it that when people find a way to break the law, they bitch if someone wants to stop them? Trading MP3 files is one thiing, but it has gotten way out of hand. Like kakhisrule said, you can download starwars (even episode 2) if you know where to look. Thats just stupid. You want to do it right, go to a record store and steal it. If you don't have the balls to walk in to the store and take it, then you shouldn't be allowed to hid behind your computer and take it.

Movies and cd's are overpriced and a few people are getting rich off it. So instead of paying for it, you want to break the law.... So you want to fight one bad thing with another bad thing. Two wrongs don't make a right. Like tedob1 said, during the US patriot act, the RIAA wanted something put into the law giving them permission to hack home PC's. Enough people stood up and complained that it wasn't put into the law. They did it the right way. There is a right way and a wrong way to accomplish anything, and its time people stoped whining that someone wants to stop them from doing it the wrong way. Insted of complaining, find a way to use that energy productively, and either get movie sharing legalized, or get the studios to lower their prices.

</end rant>

Our 10 ammendments are getting changed or being able to go around so quickly now a days. This is not good for the government. And to souleman:

Yes there is a right way, and that is with highly paid lawyers which the average joe hacker can't afford, and would have trouble raising.

Otherwise souleman, you have good points.

ArmyOfOne> A boycott doesn't require highly priced lawers, and would be very effective. If you were able to get people to stop buying music and movies for a while. That doesn't mean dl them instead, that means just pretend that they don't exist. Stop listening to the radio, don't turn on the tv, etc. You really want to hit em, get people to stop going to clubs that play new music. Only go on retro 80s night or something. They have the money for your high priced lawers, and will not be to happy when everyone abandons them because they play new mucic. Only watch/listen what you already own. That would have a MAJOR impact on both the MPAA and RIAA.

Oh wait, that would mean that people would have to listen/watch the same old stuff for a month or two... How could they handle it. You average joe hacker can spend 30 hours coding a project without blinking, but spending all that time listening to music they already heard...we know better then that. And to listen to something different, you would actually have to go to a friends house and borrow their cd or video or someting. My god, you mean ...go outside and talk to people... face to face even.....ahhhhhhhhh.

Soulman, I would like to commend you on your post. Great points with some morality to it as well. People, if these industries weren't around to produce, and make money off of, the movies and music we watch, you would have nothing to steal from them. Legally, ethically and morally, that's all you are doing is stealing from them. As soulman said, you might as well go into a store and steal the dvd or vhs off the shelf. I see nothing wrong with these industries trying to protect their investments. Cinema and Music industries don't invest 10's to 100's of millions of dollars in a project simply to see all their efforts pirated by the 14 yr old kid sitting behind his computer. Verging on a seperate subject, one of the biggest reasons our economy is taking a plummet is because noone wants to go out and contribute to it. We would all rather sit behind a computer and steal the goods 10 dolars at a time instead of going out and paying the 7 dollars for a movie. The extent that these industries are asking to go to protect their investments are a little extreme, I agree. However, anything short of locking up a couple million people for copyright infringement and piracy, what can these industries do? Everyone is always concerned about their "certain inalienable rights" as pointed out by the Bill of Rights. Someone is always looking for a way to say their civil liberties are being compromised. What about the rights of a corporation to make money off of the investments they make? What about the actor's or performer's rights to get paid for their services? At some point, people need to realize that there are things that are inately wrong. Stealing and cheating are two of those. Why should it be allowed to go on simply to protect the civil liberties of the the person commiting the crime. If you aren't stealing from these companies, you won't be at risk of being hacked. Even if you are hacked by them, what are they deleting? Their product which you have illegally. You steal something from a store and are caught with it, you have to give it back. There's no civil liberties infringement involved there. But since it's done from a computer, noone knows how to handle it. If you do the right thing, the right thing will be done to you.

Okay, I'll bite.

And now for your enjoyment, roswell1329 plays Devil's Advocate:

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Even if you are hacked by them, what are they deleting? Their product which you have illegally. You steal something from a store and are caught with it, you have to give it back. There's no civil liberties infringement involved there.

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I'm afraid I'll have to disagree there. In this country, even criminals have civil liberties, and the example Troy11277 gave in the above quote is not quite an accurate depiction of what is being debated. These organizations are proposing methods that can cause hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars of permanent damage to individual systems. It would be state approved vigilantism! Their actions are beginning to rival that of a common street thug. It would be much more precise to offer the following analogy:

What the MPAA and RIAA are attempting to legallize is the state-sponsored severe beating/limb breaking of a shoplifter taking a stick of gum.

I understand that MP3 trading is an epidemic that the MPAA and RIAA claims is causing extreme hits to their profit margin (something I'd rather not go into), but lashing out with crippling retaliation is hardly the solution.

I'd also like to go into a rant of my own about today's corporate view on intellectual property, but that's another post altogether.

Sufficed to say, I agree with the points of souleman and Troy11277 that the MPAA and RIAA are entitled to protect what they are selling, but this proposed legislation seems to be more like a knee-jerk reaction that could have devastating consequences.

Perhaps the future of cyberspace will simply be an exorbitant charge for admission that covers all these silly incidentals like pirated media and software. :brickwall

Troy11277. what you say is true, but that’s not the issue, really. The politicians who are promoting these new laws are saying that the internet will not become a safe place to do business until its safe for the movie makers to stream media and charge for each stream. This mp3 thing is a smoke screen, sales of cds have gone up because of filesharing, at least judging by what happened with m&m (I can’t remember how he spells his name). If this is not a good example, well the point is, that’s its arguable, there NO evidence that its affected sales either way.

So now movie industry will do to theaters, what airlines have done to travel agents, cut them out completely, keeping all the profits for themselves and passing savings on to no one. You may argue and say, well that’s progress. This progress comes at a cost to me, I will no longer be able to make copies of my cds or software to use while storing the originals in a safe place. Its become the law that any device cannot duplicate any copy writen material. This goes for VCRs as well, over riding earlier laws which allowed recording to view at another time.

This is all done, just so the entertainment industry can make MORE money.

We the taxpayers must now provide, at our expense, a police force for these gavones. Does anybody think that the internet would not survive without the movie industry. If they cant adapt to this new environment, they don’t belong in it. We should not have to change everything. just so they can fit in.

Large corporation are eliminating jobs and giving us the bull **** that their creating new jobs this way. New jobs yes, but not for us. Their jobbing it out to slave labor in south east asia, not because our wages are too high and its hurting their business, but their profits will be higher still if they do. And the political parties, still in power, help them every step of the way and could care less about our well being.

Its time for a major change in our political system.

Get todays (7/24/02) spin on Hollywood hacking at http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1106-945976.html

The record industry is annoyed that sales are going down, so they try to find any excuse they can to explain this, eg that file-sharing is stopping sales. Maybe if they stopped making wave after wave of annoying bands which all sound the same, and stop paying people so much money, then sales would improve.
Also from what has happened in the past, annoying people on the net is a bad thing, they usually team up and get revenge eg DDOS a server, or take over a network

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Programmers trying to come up with, say, the next great version of the Linux operating system may find their development efforts put them at risk of civil and criminal penalties. Indeed, their sons and daughters in grade school computer classes may face similar risks if the broadest of the changes now being proposed -- a ban on software, hardware, and any other digital-transmission technology that does not incorporate copyright protection -- becomes law.

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http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=13651

There is a lot to think about here.

I never expected to find out that Steve Ballmer would sign off on a letter PROTESTING these efforts by the entertainment industry, but here it is in black and white. I copied the below in quotes from eweek magazine, and am including a link also.

July 22, 2002
The Buzz: July 22, 2002

CEOs: Don't Stifle Innovation



"Much of the debate about anti-piracy has centered on the entertainment industry's attempts to quell the technology that allows users to record music and movies.

Now the technology industry is pushing back. In a sharply worded letter to some of the largest entertainment conglomerates—including Disney, Viacom and AOL Time Warner— 10 big-name, high-tech CEOs last week warned that attempts to stop piracy should not also quash technological innovation.

"Any solutions ... must not compromise the innovations this [peer-to-peer] functionality has to offer," said the CEOs, including Carly Fiorina of Hewlett-Packard, Michael Dell of Dell, Craig Barrett of Intel, Steve Ballmer of Microsoft and Joe Tucci of EMC.

The letter was sent in response to an April 12 letter sent by entertainment moguls concerning piracy and technology"

That pretty well sums it up, but you can have a look for yourself at http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,390977,00.asp

I'm not going to get into the morality argument...we all know it is wrong to steal. But by the same token, it's wrong for law enforcement to bash down the door of my house so they can look around for signs of illegal activity. So someone please tell me WHY the entertainment industry should have the legal right to kick down my front door (hack my firewall) and search my house (hard drive)? If I'm running a FTP site and robbing them, then let them present the evidence to a judge and get a warrant...that is the system that we have been using and it seems to work fine, IMHO. If they are granted this ability, the abuses that they could institute are endless. Imagine the poor novelist who has been shopping a book around for months only to see his hard work show up on the silver screen all because he had a copy of the manuscript on his hard drive. And he never sees a DIME of compensation for his effort. Or the politician who finds himself beholden to Hollywood because of some juicy little tidbit they found on his hard drive. Sound far-fetched? I think not...the past few weeks have given us all an in-depth look at the total lack of morality of corporate America. Get with it folks....Hollywood wants a license to rob you of your privacy. Are you going to let them become BIG BROTHER??

why is hollywood worried about these peer to peer networks when just about every piece of media is pirated in china, new deli ,etc there are dvd's of resident evil, blade 2, ocean's eleven, spiderman, etc hollywood just see this as a way to make more money believe me it all about the benjamins!

Ballmer is against it because he wants MS to control the content.

The problem with the MPAA and RIAA is that they are trying to put the genii back in the bottle by suppressing technology. Right or wrong P2P is here and they haven't figured out how to control it (make money off it). Instead of spending so much time and money trying to stop sharing from happening they should share certain works and put out a greater variety of artists.

Broadcasting is gone, narrowcasting can work. There is a market for smaller targeted distribution of works by artists that will never make it to the mass market, but it takes too much work for mega corporations to find it. There are ten companies that control ~90 percent of the media outlets in the USA if they don't want you to see or hear something it becomes hard to find.

Want to see what a recording artist thinks of P2P? Take a look at this thread and get the perspective they don't want you to hear!

http://www.antionline.com/showthread...hreadid=232818

Look, recording artists have a right to be outraged, but here is one of my bigger problems, how do I protect myself against a DoS attack from a big corp like that? They probably have more bandwidth at their disposal than my ISP. And how about if they strike outside of their own countries? Can they?

That is an excellent question, Khakis. While I cannot provide a technical answer to the question, I can say this...WE THE PEOPLE are the first line of defense in this matter. I have taken the liberty of writing a generic email for concerned members to use to protest this piece of legislation. I am also re-posting the links that will get people in contact with their congress-person. Feel free to use the attached document as you see fit, make any changes you deem needed, whatever. The main thing is that you USE it, make your voice heard. To quote the motto of my own state, "United we stand, divided...we FALL."


U.S. Senate:
http://www.senate.gov/senators/senator_by_state.cfm

U.S. House of Representatives:
http://clerk.house.gov/members/index.php