Take em' to the cleaners?

Hey All,

I've been wondering this and wanted peoples comments about this. I just recently had my car's brake system inspected to see if there are any problems with it. In return, I recieved a list of 12 products that apparently need to be changed, totalling 470$. Now I know that some of those parts might need changing, but not all. Obviously someone is trying to take me to the cleaners. Just because I ain't a mechanically inclined person, does that mean rob me of my money and screw me into believing I need all this?

Same comes to computers. I've heard of technicians check a computer, charge $$$ per hour and tell a customer they need all this software and hardware. I understand that many people can be idiots and leave the plug in the back of the computer out, or leaving a powerbar off, but is it fair to pick on the uneducated? Does grandfather brown need a 300$ backup power deck? Or a creative labs platinum live 5.1 soundcard and speakers? (especially those with hearing aids) or a 23" flat screen monitor? Would you not agree this is highway robbery? I mean these guys are good to go with a 800mhz, 128mb ram, on board sound and video, 5gig hd and some software.

Now I ask this. Do you screw people over into purchasing these extras with their computer because you want to make a sale? Or do you help the person out and focus more on public relations? Would you rather confuse your client into buying something, or explain to them in plain english what the problem is and what you recommend and why? Just curious to see how this community looks at sales vs. service. (the buck vs. the respect)

Edit: Had changed it from General ChitChat to Cosmo and wanted to add a poll, somehow the link was missing? odd, eh? Anyways, here it is.

I have two comments to say about your question(s)

1) I just had my car taken in yesterday to get two of the tires changed (300 bucks), and i had asked the mechanic to check the brakes, and they came back with an estimate for 850 bucks to change all four brakes (rotors and pads). Since changing brakes isnt too much of a streatch (im not so mechanically inclined myself), I priced out the parts online, and can get new pads and rotors for my beemer for about 250 bucks. Guess which option i am going to take. I would suggest that you go get decent mechanic to give you a brake inspection (cost me 20 bucks) and have him print you out a parts list. Shop these online (if you have a common car, this shouldnt be too hard to find). Next, find an online manual for the instructions on changing brakes for your car, or go to a Kragan and get the owners manual for your car, which should diagram how to do this. Finally, recruit a buddy or buddies who knows the difference between a torque wrench and a ratchet, and make promises of beer and good times. The project shouldnt take more than an afternoon, and you will get to have a good time hanging out with your friends, and saving money (600 bucks in my case).

To your second point - about adding unnecessary parts/stuff...

Since I am in sales, and i deal with fortune 500 accounts where keeping a customer is infinately easier than finding one - I NEVER cheat my customers on selling them something they dont need...ever... period. You might get one good sale out of them by raping and pillaging, but the real reward is in the long term relationship sales that i have had over my career.

Hope this helps!

PS if you do the brakes yourself, PM me with how it went :)

I always go with respect, and patronize companies and businesses which do the same.

When I built my first computer, I couldn't get it to run. Kept try to figure it out, but came up empty. Frustrated, I took it to a local computer shop. Come to find out, my CPU wasn't seated properly in the adapter card. But since it was an easy fix, they fixed it for almost half of what they normally charge -- plus cleaned up some stuff in my case.

When I worked retail, I made sure that the customer got what they wanted, at the cheapest they could -- even if it wasn't where I worked.

The problem is commision -- everybody is a dollar, sell it even if they can't really afford it or even need it.

There is some descency left in the world -- but it's few and far between.

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Originally posted here by DarkGuardian
When I worked retail, I made sure that the customer got what they wanted, at the cheapest they could -- even if it wasn't where I worked.

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I have this problem. I was in Wal~Mart picking up some CD-RW's and had seen an elderly couple looking for a mouse, and I told them they could go to a shop and pick one up for $4. instead of $12. or if they wanted I would walk out to my car and give them one. I always have spares on me. I also have been kicked out of Staples for correcting the sales people if I notice they are trying to BS a deal out the door. I know this isn't in regards to the automotive problem, but this is my outlook on how things should be handled. As for automotive work, I work out deals with people I know do mechanics. I upgrade this or that in your PC for you if you do "my oil change, breaks, etc". I just think that if people could learn to put money aside, and respect the point of bartering. It would make the cycle so much respectful, but you find you can't barter if the society focuses on greed.

Actually, this topic isn't about mechanics and vehicles. It isn't even about computers (well, ok, it is) I'm just wondering, since most of us deal with computers, if when you have a sucker at your fingertips, do you screw him or educate him.

From what I've seen so far, most people here at AO are decent people. For that I feel a little faith in computer inclined humanitarians. I totally agree that commission is what people aim, but I always looked at it that if I give the customer what they want, and they are satisfied, they'll tell others, and others tell others, etc. Which is they way I'd prefer doing business.

Thanks for suggestions on my car, wasn't what I was aiming for, but I'll take the bonus tips :D

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Originally posted here by tyger_claw
From what I've seen so far, most people here at AO are decent people. For that I feel a little faith in computer inclined humanitarians.

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I would agree with that 100%. I feel confident enough to say a good percentage of the members would go out of the way for another member. I believe the user in need would have to earn a bit of respect and confidence prior, but I wouldn't think anyone would leave another out to dry....

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Originally posted here by tyger_claw
I totally agree that commission is what people aim.

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It is sad, but 100% true. You have a greedy society, and now with a hurting enconomy you are going to see more and more. I don't believe it would be that way if we were able to share out abilities without a price tag. That is why it is always great to have friends. I don't think I have one friend that would put a price tag on a favor.

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Originally posted here by tyger_claw
I always looked at it that if I give the customer what they want, and they are satisfied, they'll tell others, and others tell others, etc. Which is they way I'd prefer doing business.

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The way it should be, but then again. Morals are lost when greed takes over.

IMHO, balance is the key. no, you dont try to screw the guy by leading him to believe this peltier cooling system is what he NEEDS to truly experience this flash script on his favorite website. that would be misleading and unethical. however, if the guy asks for this certain item who am i to say that he doesnt really need it. if i'm at someone's business and they ask me my opinion on whether i should buy this item over that one, i will suggest the one that i believe will work the best for that situation. i'm not out to screw anybody and i think education is your best friend sometimes. its better to give him what he really needs at a cheaper price so they keep coming back to you than it is to jip him out of alot of money once, then his cousin tells him he was raped in the computer store and he never returns.

so to sum up... a bird in hand will stay in your hand until you lie to it or screw it. ok that sounded absolutely wrong, but i hope you get what i am saying.

I totally get what you are saying.

Sure if someone wants something, why not give it to them.
However, if they just want a soundcard to hear "You've got mail", why give them a Platinum Live 5.1?

I hear ya :D

Why would you just want to hear you got mail, when the higher quality of a Platinum Live 5.1 with some higher quality speakers and a nice sub will give you a greater You've Got Mail edge. You haven't head a WAV file until you heard a wav file on the top of the line sound system.. Sorry had to do it...

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Now I ask this. Do you screw people over into purchasing these extras with their computer because you want to make a sale? Or do you help the person out and focus more on public relations? Would you rather confuse your client into buying something, or explain to them in plain english what the problem is and what you recommend and why? Just curious to see how this community looks at sales vs. service. (the buck vs. the respect)

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I live in a small midwestern town and help run an ISP service. Our best advertisement is our satisfied customers, word might get around slow, but, it does get around. On the other side of the coin ( excuse the pun ) dis-satisfied customers tales will spread like wildfire and put a business belly-up real fast.

Honesty is still the best policy...

P.S. I always do my own mechanical repairs, If you can build a pc and configure a network, you can certainly fix a car given the right resources.

tyger_claw > just imagine how much women get screwed when they take a car in to be repaired. I've heard of more than one instance where a woman took in a car to be serviced, and got taken for every penny they could get from her.

re: customer education vs. profit$:

Having worked in the retail industry (in automotive, no less), I can personally attest to both attitudes when it
comes to profit margins vs. customer retention. Having an objective viewpoint (having a snowjob attempted on
yours' truly) I can honestly say that it does required a *little* education on the clients' part, but the onus is
definitely on the part of the service tech ( whether 'puter or auto ) to educate the customer, and failing that
at the very least, treating him/her with the utmost respect no matter what.

I am currently in a training program in for the IT field ( I was a Geek in denial for years), and our instructor,
who used to work for IBM ( i know...) and also had his own business, informed us that it behooves us to
improve our collective stature in the consumers' viewpoint. I don't know what the stats are like in the rest of the
Canada and the U.S., but for a couple of years running, the BBB has Computer Techs/Consumer Electronics
service ranked higher than plumbers, used-car sales AND auto-repair! Kinda makes you think...

Anyhow, the point is that we all have to recognize that this is going to happen no matter what. What makes the
difference is rising to the challenge, to resist any temptations to fleece decent people. One might have customers
that are so dense as to drive one absolutely nuts, but it's far more rewarding to smile politely, not show any
frustration ( despite the uncontrollable urge to...!), fix what's needed and send them on their blissful, merry way.
Challenging? Yes. But would our conscience have it any other way....

Zaddikim

Whenever I feel like I might be conned by auto-repair shops and stores I just research that particular vehicle and then inspect it myself.

Like aeallison, I too am in a small town. If you screw somebody over and they find out you did, it only takes about 2 weeks for everyone to know.

Most advertisements and the general market are based around "the impressionably stupid consumer". It's hard today not to be 'fooled' by a salesperson trying to sell you what you don't need to make a profit. My grandfather dealt cars for quite some time, and the money was excellent, but his job was to lie to people and sell something expensive to someone who didn't really need all that. He had to sugar coat every sale and he hated being like that, because, well...my grandfather is a very honest man, he believes still that a handshake means something, but he needed the money. I take him with me if I need anything done to my car, because he's also a mechanic, and I don't want him to fix it, because he doesn't need to be up under the car at his age, but...he's caught customer service representatives in lies about what my car needed. He's sure to tell them exactly what I need and be sure that they don't 'need to do anything else'

I agree that society today is greedy. But also look at it from my grandfather's point of view, some markets, such as the automotive, both sales and repair are about really promoting a product and getting it out there, even if it means lying. But as I said, the money was needed.

I worked for a short time at a dealership handling loan information. My job wasn't to sell anything but to 'approve' people for non-existant loans. I HATED IT! I had to take all their information, and then, put them on hold while I was 'processing their information' which usually consisted of me going to get a soda or taking a trip to the bathroom, then got back on the phone, told them they were approved and made an appointment to come in. Isn't that HORRIBLE!!!

I guess it's about the ethics of the company, their values and etc. that would determine the type of service you get...But your best defense as a consumer in any market is EDUCATION.

(P.S. Hope you could follow along, I'm exhausted.)

GreekGoddess> I totally hear you that some stores have policies which force customers to purchase what they don't need/require. Both RadioShack and FutureShop work that way. I don't place the blame entirely on the store clerk/broker/inspector, the customer/client also has some blame, allowing themselves to be taken.

It's kinda sad that people are controlled by the buck. But that is the way of our economy and the society....

as a salesperson your job is to suggest the best, most people who really don't know computers want the best. their afraid if they buy something less than the best 2nd cousin whats his name will bad mouth them to the rest of the family and friends, and tell all how stupid they are. in cases like this, (and you can tell,) if you don't offer it or even hard sell it, they'll shop around and buy it from someone else. that doesn't mean selling high priced garbage, but the best. even if someone wants to conserve money, selling them 'not enough' will only have them mad at you when they get some experience.

what Joey_Batch_File said is the way it should be done.

When it comes to computers, I do alot of contract work, and in my case I have to ask myself, what can this company afford to pay me, is this a one time deal or am I going to be able to come out and work for them again. Do I charge them alot because I know they have the money or do I charge a fair price. In the end, what I do is charge a reasonable price based on the length of time and complexity involved. Of course what they can afford to pay is a contributing factor, but for the most part, I try to take care of my customers, because in the end, my customers end up being my best advertising. Don't forget, word of mouth is priceless.