Animal Awareness

Have you ever thought about how we look at animals? Have you ever thought they are smarter than we think? Do you ever get that look from one of your pets that hints to their conciousness, and awareness?

Take this, for example. The Parrot. The Parrot is the only animal that has a tounge and vocal cords capable of imitating the noises we make. These noises that we make have evolved over thousands of years to create LANGUAGE. Well the Parrot, immitates these noises...oblivious to what he is saying...or is he? If Polly says "Polly want a cracker." His owner gives him a cracker. Well after 20 years or so, of getting a cracker every time he makes this immitation, he figures out that "polly want a cracker" means Food. So at this point, Polly is fully aware of what he is saying. He knows that when he says that, he will get food. Strange...

Another thing that gets me is the fact that when people are acting out of order or just plain rude, they call them an "animal". To me, being called an animal is better than being called a man. I mean, which animal has wars? Most mammals adapt to their environment, and are a symbiotic part of their habitat. Man differs by being greedy, and lying and hating.
We will be the end of our own race. We strive for destruction and live vial secret lives that we think no-one knows about. But the animals know. LOL :-X

-another anti human rant

Actually there are several species that have fights that could be considered wars because they are trying to defend or take land from another animal. Male deer are a good example when it comes to the herd. One will come and try to conquer or will conquer. Many predatory animals do the same thing. Some animals attack the young of more dominant species just to keep them from growing older, sometimes they eat them and other times they just kill them. Cats are a great example of territorial animals, they either live in peace with those around them, or they constantly fight them.

I do agree than animals are keenly aware of what goes on around them. My dog is extreamly intelligent and has a great personality, he amazes me sometimes. Likewise my cat is no fool, she has the dog believing she can take him. Poor dog, he always being terrorised by my cat, but little does he know that one bite and the cat is no more.

And yes we will be the end of our species, and likely much of the rest of the planet at the same time.

HMMM.
My cats were playing with each other the other day. They were climbing on boxes, and jumping off, then climbing higher, and jumping off, and so on, until they had jumped from the highest column of boxes. They seemed like they were daring each other. They know that when they are out of food and water, that if they come and sit next to me, get in my face, climb on me, get my attention, I will get the point that they will need something. Even at 3 AM. Our domesticated pets are trainable, and most listen better than our children. A well trained dog will "sit" and "stay" better than a child will. I know a dog that will not eat if the owner says not to if offered a treat. In some respects, animals are smarter than people. They (usually) only kill to eat, feed their young, or protect their young or territory. Only the crazy ones kill for other reasons. If we applied the same logic to humans, we are either secretly a society of repressed cannibals, or all those who kill for reasons other than those listed above are crazy.
Wait... Don't we say that about people who go around killing just for kicks and giggles?
And yet, we do nothing about those people, except lock them up somewhere for a little while, and let them out when we think they have been rehabilitated, or, in the extreme cases, we wait until they've written a few books, found God, spoken with Phil, Larry, Oprah, and Geraldo, and then we give them night-night juice, and they go to sleep. In the animal kingdom, a wild rabid animal is taken care of, immediately, for the protection of the rest of the herd/family.
Who is more civilized? Who is more in control of their world?

As for intelligent mammals/animals...
The parrot isn't the only animal that is capable of mimicking human speech and learning by its' usage.
The Mynah bird does the same thing, as well as cockatiels, and a few others.

But who says that vocalizing is the ultimate arbiter of intelligence? For years, primates (primarily chimpazees,
but big apes as well) have been trained in the use of sign language, and more recently in the use of symbols
in communications with humans. The studies have found that they are capable not only of communicating
by the base use of these methods, in addtion they can communicate abstract ideas! This was
seemingly a natural progression for the scientists directly involved with the study. But for behavioural
scientists, child psychologists and the like, the findings were troubling: up until now, it was assumed that
humans, as a species, are the only beings on this rock who are truly sentient. Hmmm... by what criteria?

As advanced as our species is, and as objective as science can be, there remains a slight problem-
we still tend to be conceited to the point that sentience requires a "soul", walking upright, self-awareness,
and so on. It's the same neighbourhood of the judeo/christian belief that not only are we at the center of
the universe, we're the only ones in it.

Awfully arrogant of us, don't you think?
good post BTW, general philosophical questions are vastly entertaining, Thanks!

Zaddikim

in the bible it says we were thrown out paradise for eating from the tree of knowledge.

The animals that have lived with me have all been puzzled by my doing things with cars and computers and the like. The seem to say, "why don't you want to run and play".

sometimes i think their right.

I was mearly using the parrot as an example.... and that bird vocalizing mearly a slap in the face of with the reality of how truly arrogant we are.

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Originally posted here by zaddikim
As advanced as our species is, and as objective as science can be, there remains a slight problem-
we still tend to be conceited to the point that sentience requires a "soul", walking upright, self-awareness,
and so on. It's the same neighbourhood of the judeo/christian belief that not only are we at the center of
the universe, we're the only ones in it.

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I think animals very well may have a soul, only it differs. Their soul never fell from grace. They never rebeled against their creator. God said when we fell from grace, Man will have to toil the ground, and work. Maybe thats why our dogs lie around and lick thier ....... and we work all the damn time.

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Originally posted here by Tedob1
in the bible it says we were thrown out paradise for eating from the tree of knowledge.

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This supports my theory. when we ate, we GAINED a knowledge that animals did not. The knowledge of Good and Evil. As much as I think my cat is EVIL, hes not. Everything is very simple for them because they don't know the darkness that we know. They arent faced with greed, lust, and hatred. All they have to worry about is that damn food chain.

No offense meant, Dr Toker, I just go off on a tangent sometimes...lol, family and friends usually shut me down
before I really get going...heh

One other point to consider, although it kind of goes off in a slightly different direction than intended...
<here he goes again/>
Western society (Indo-European/Judeo-Christian at any rate) seems to operate on the belief that it is up to
"us Humans" to hold dominion over the Natural world. During the colonization of different lands over the centuries
by "The West"(tm), indigenous peoples, who for millenia have venerated Earth Mother and Her Children, were
repressed in various ways (which is another topic altogether...sorry) for their beliefs. For the time that they
occupied the land (best term I could think of to describe it), they treated it with respect, saw God/ess in every aspect
of the world they inhabited. They didn't "own" any part of it. I don't have the speech on me, but to paraphrase
Chief Sealth(sic), "We are the land, and the Land is us" ( or something to that effect, anyhoo). They saw
the Spirit in all that they saw, including animals, and lived in Harmony and Balance with the land.

And we're the civilized ones?
<phew, about bloody time/>

And now, back to our regularly scheduled programming...

Zaddikim

There’s never been a doubt in my mind. Animals are extremely intelligent. Its because they don’t react in ways most humans can understand that they are considered stupid. Because cows don’t scream help me, help me, its said they aren’t aware of what’s about to happen to them in the slaughter house, but yet the fact that they **** themselves is overlooked.

Dogs snap their jaws shut when they want something. Not necessarily food either. My dog goes by the door, looks at me and snaps his jaws shut a couple of times, real quick. He wants to go out. I didn’t teach it to him. All the dogs that have been with me did that. Is this not communication?

The chuch says animals have no soul, but up until 200 years ago they also said woman had no soul. I’ll believe what I know in my heart to be true and churchs can keep their dogma, out of the way of my karma.

Hey Tolker, i know this is off topic, a bit, but as long as were speaking of paradise, heres something for you to ponder.

Did you ever wonder what life on earth would be like if the earths axis were in line with that of the sun. There would be no summer or winter, no growing season. plants would just fruit as they came into maturity. Their would always be plenty. And with out the seasons, which take their toll on organisms, we would live allot longer. Their would be no hurricanes or severe storms, jet streams would not vary. a regular paradise.

So god sent the angel with the flaming sword to drive us out of the garden. Could that be a comet hitting the earth, knocking it off axis? Im not saying that god did not do this, but everything mystical seems to have its physical counterpart.

And thats all I'm sayin man...there are so many connections to the physical world around us.
I just cant deny the exsistence... As much as I tried, all I see is the evendence of a Creator.
Your right, this is off topic.

Ok, back on topic... meet psychopuppy...my avatar....she is 2.5 lbs of Pomerainian, and 2.5 tons of attitude. She will protect me with her life, even against the largest of foes. She always knows I am on my way home 10 minutes before I get home, and I never arrive home at the same time. When I am happy she is happy, if I am mad she is mad ( at everyone ). She sleeps on my pillow at night until I come home. She is not a stupid animal, she is an intelligent, sentient being, she is my companion, devoted to me unconditionally.....


Just thought I would add this, in case you wondered.

i dont' know whether to laugh or cry, people sit here and talk about how THEIR(note the possessive pronoun) pets are so intelligent. my goodness people what gives you the right to own a creature let alone an intelligent one? i have heard excuses "well i am smarter than they are", well i am smarter than developmentally disabled people and most of my classmates that doesnt' mean i can own them. "well they are a lower species" lower? how do they get classified as lower? "god said we have dominion over nature..." boolshit that kind of rhetoric was used to justify slavery for 400 years. you are the new world slave owners wake up and smell the oppression.

On the contrary blackfist, My pets, or as my friends who interact with my"four-legged children" as they are more commonly known, are not slaves in any sense. They are cared for and loved like one of my own children. I feed them from my own plate at times for a treat, just as I would my children. My wife and I even celebrate their birthdays and holidays. Come and spend a couple of days with us and you will understand what a lot of us ( the human race ) never will. These "children" of mine ( and I do not use the term mine as a possesive ) can communicate with us and we fully understand them as much as they do us. I have an old ( 15years ) mixed breed that will tell you how to make her a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, right down to leading you to all the ingrediants, ind the silverware drawer for the knife. No s**t!! And we never did anything to train her other than ask her what she wanted...Sorry guys/gals if I sound like a loony tune to you, but anyone who truly loves their pets like we (my wife and I ) do will agree with me on this.

aea

With the possible exception of animals associated with law enforcement/search and rescue, I have yet to witness an animal (dog, cat, canary etc.) punching a time clock, worried over the mortgage, or fretting over insurance premiums. Kinda makes me wonder what species is REALLY the most intelligent.

And yeah, Tedob and Dr. Toker....I see the Creator all around me too....and I hope I never lose the sense of wonder it gives me!

I like this thread, lots of good ideas. when my girls were small (two and three) they'd go traipsing off up the mountainside with Dan and Ann (black labs) running circles around them, changing directions wherever the girls wanted to go. I'd be watching these treks, and without fail one of the labs would start prancing straight up and down in the same place, going two or three feet in the air before coming down straight-legged then back up like a steel spring. This would go on for a minute or so while the other lab circled up the girls and stood over them watching, girls bitching like crazy but couldn't get away or move from their keeper. Eventually the jumping would stop, and the dog would reach down and grab what was left of the snake and shake the h3II out of it until it came apart in pieces, then the trek would continue. Sometimes a chopper would come up from across the mountain, and the dogs would knock down the girls, stand over them, and growl vicious warnings at the plane, then let the girls back up, licked the dirt off them and took off again on their trek after the invader had been scared away. Now, i don't know exactly what these dogs were thinking, although I got my own ideas... But they were darn good partners for a mountain trek with the kids. But that's enough of that. Here's one from my email today: A guy goes into the bar with his dog, and asks the bartender if it'd be worth a drink if his dog could answer a question. Bartender says sure. Guy asks dog; "where is the chimney on a house?" Dog says "ROOF". Bartender isn't impressed. Guy asks dog; "Who is one of the most famous baseball players in American history?" Dog says "RUUF". Bartender throws them both out. After they stop rolling down the sidewalk, the dog looks at the guy confused like and asks; "DiMaggio??". :D

But then, on a more thoughtful note...
of the throne, and round about the throne, were four cbeasts full of eyes before and behind.
7 And the first beast

(New Testament | Revelation 4:6)

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about the throne, and about the elders and the four abeasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped

(New Testament | Revelation 7:11)

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a new asong before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song

(New Testament | Revelation 14:3)
Hmmm, now, i wonder what he meant by "beasts"?

During a review of the hospital facilities, the Director and Doctor walking down the ward notice a man jerking off. The Director asks the Doctor, you wanna explain that.... The Doctor then explains that the patient has a rare disease where sperm fills in his testicals and that he needs to ejaculate once an hour to releave the pressure or he can die. Well, the Director says, that sounds logical. As the Director and Doctor continue down the ward, they happen by a nurse giving a patient head.... The Director turns to the Doctor, "How you gonna explain that", the Doctor calmly turns to the Director and says."Same disease, better health care plan".

Just Some Humor For Your Day. Smile =)~

I totally agree with Dr Toker. Man depends upon all animate and non animate, life and 'non life' forms for his existence. To treat all of these things as there to serve us is utterly unjustifiable, wasteful and disrespectful. Who says we are the planets superior beings? Why we do! Without what the planet provides for us, we would be dust. We take what we want rather than what we need, I don't believe we should have survived this long!

Blah blah rant rant..........

Allenb1963 said this

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With the possible exception of animals associated with law enforcement/search and rescue, I have yet to witness an animal (dog, cat, canary etc.) punching a time clock, worried over the mortgage, or fretting over insurance premiums. Kinda makes me wonder what species is REALLY the most intelligent.

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Well I think we must all realize animals are extremly intellegent, but they also have phyiscal limitations that impare them from reaching their full capabalities. One reason Humans are able to be superior over them is because of the way we can communicate and the way we can use our bodies to achieve a wide range fo activites. But the fact is animals live in a limited world because of there phyiscal limitation and the only thing these animals truely have to worry about is finding food for the day. However for most Humans food is provided as long as we complete our daily tasks and live by the rules that the human society has created for itself, and we have done this trying to set ourselves apart from these other species because we have chosen to see their life styles as detasteable.

This is because we ate of those fruits Dr Toker was talking about. IT all makes sense to me.

I have been reading from a really (to me) cool author, David Eddings. In it, his characters say
something like, Man thinks he rules the world, but there are a lot of creatures in this world, and those creatures generally ignore man unless we become intrusive or inconvenient. It is a blow to our egos, surely, that these animals ignore us like that.
Also, I have noticed, we are the only creatures who have doctors, someone to aid in the removal of illness and injury, not only for ourselves, but for that animal kingdom, as well. In the animal kingdom, if one is ill or injured, one either recovers or dies off, either naturally, or by having fallen prey to an enemy.

I agree with Dr Toker to a certain extent, animal are lot more intelligent then we give credit.

Animals according to some sciences are basically dumb :- purely acting on instinct, unaware of death etc. I say bullshit

I believe some Animal are very intelligent aware of they surrounding and there existence.

Example – Zebra’s I have seen one (On TV) cry when it fowl died, I don’t thing it had dust in its eyes.


Male Lions and primates will actual kill there young if they expect they are not of there bloodline. When taking over a bride or tribe. Humans however will raise the young of others as they own.

I would say sometimes humans are far superior sometimes, he/she will sacrifice oneself for the good of the family or the country (Even a complete stranger, yes true but rare i.e. a kid drowning someone would jump in to save it). Humans will also help the ill and the old. Unfortunately Man will probably wipe himself out due to arseholes like Bin Lid and Sudan insane.

Animals on the other hand – will not sacrifice themselves unless attacking in a pack which in my eyes is the animal preserving it life, also wild animal kill the weak in the pack be it a genetic flaw, sickness or even at old age. No Animal on Earth would sacrifice itself for a stranger.

The only time a Animal will sacrifice itself is when it Alpha Male or Human owner is under attack, which once again is the animal preserving it arse – hence Master dies No food for Animal – result Animal dies.

Is it true if you have a animal for a while you start looking like it?

Of course its true KrazyMike1978. Look at me... :rolleyes:

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Is it true if you have a animal for a while you start looking like it?

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Just as you look like Cartman, *od dam**t, make me some pie!! and gimmie that bag of cheesy poofs!!

:chuck:

Just think... In a few years we will be having similar conversations about our robots & droids. It's coming. The world's best computers sit between our ears yet our boxes of plastic and silicon do not resemble our grey matter in the least. People are already trying to conceive biological computers. Actually, they probably have already been perfected in some hidden governmental research facility, but that's another thread.

Zorolord... I can understand what you are saying. However I do not feel by humans being able to save or attempt to save everyone of their kind is a good thing. The reason animals don't do such is because they see there is something wrong with them and realize they must die. By allowing them to live the animals are basicly setting up bad genes for themselves and hurting their own chances at survivile in the long run.

Also the world is becoming extremly in danger because of the fact the human population keeps growing and still people are dying and dying or are hungry and we try to save them. This will only incress the population even more so thus damaging the plant by our wastes.

If you ask me the animals in this case are far more intellegent because they realize the only thing that truely matters is the survivle of there species and by helping the weak or increasing there population they only hurt there food supplies and allow weak genes to be among them. They understand in the long run its really not worth it.

Animals such as lions that take over another pride kill the babies because this will bring the female lions into heat. This will allow them to mate with the females and produce their own off spring that will be stronger than the previouse because they were capable of taking over the pride to beging with. Thus insuring a stronger generation of lions.

Greetings all,
I just want to add something very real to what Dr Toker has spoke about. My wife has a terminal illness, which is called Lupus Erythmatosis or more commonly known as “the wolf illness” because it imitates various other diseases. Maybe some of you are familiar with it. Anyway, I just want to add to what Dr Toker has said about the intelligence of animals. I have a Maltese poodle and a bullterrier. Whenever my wife’s illness is taking a turn for the worst, the Maltese poodle will lie very close by her side or on top of her chest or at the top of her pillow. When she goes anywhere she would accompany her, where as in normal days she would be doing or acting very differently. So we know immediately when a flare-up off the illness is about to be happening. At first we thought it was just a once of thing but we were proved very wrong.

So I think animals are more intelligent and aware than we think. I think they deserve a place in heaven.Dr Toker you have a very valid point.

Regards
V/man.

i have heard many stories of how man and animal parted paths. one of my favorites is the story of the great seperation. long ago, man and animal spoke the same language, the words of the earth. together we lived in harmony, eating off of the land and giving respect to our friends. then one day, man deciede to eat his friend. from that point on, we lost the ability to speak the language of the world and the respect the animals used to give us.

on another note: having many animals in the house (3 cats, 3 guineq pigs, turtle, squirrel, hedge hog), i have ample opportunity to observe animals learning many things. one story that i would like to share involves my oldest cat, Poe. (the horror author, not the teletubby) Poe was running randomly? around the house and accidentally stumpled upon a child toy piano (the one that strikes the hammer against the bell) and was startled to hear it make a sound. so he experimented, rather methodically too, with what buttons made what sound and why sounds didnt come from the side of the box. this experientation went on for about 15 minutes until another cat walked by and noticed. at this point, Poe saw the other cat and i can only suppose he played a recital for him. he reared up on his back legs and struck at the keys with both paws, much like he's seen me do with an upright piano. mind you, the cacophony that erupted was very reminiscent of einsterzende neubauten or some other industrial band. but he tried and that really impressed me.

Great story about your cats qwerty...lol

:cool:

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Just think... In a few years we will be having similar conversations about our robots & droids. It's coming. The world's best computers sit between our ears yet our boxes of plastic and silicon do not resemble our grey matter in the least. People are already trying to conceive biological computers. Actually, they probably have already been perfected in some hidden governmental research facility, but that's another thread -moose

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FOOL's!!! all of them!

Anyways animals will one day take back the world. You'll all be sorry.

Found this article on Yahoo News today.Further supports the idea that animals are intelligent.
Here's the link :

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...cience_dogs_dc

I thought I would share... I currently have no pets, however... I want a ferret, but everyone says they make bad pets. Could anyone justify this statement?

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"But to count, an animal has to recognize that each object in a set corresponds to a single number and that the last number in a sequence represents the total number of objects," New Scientist added.
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humans really can complicate the **** out of things!