IRC chat proposal

ok..i dont post much but here goes...


Recentally a few of us common to the IRC chat had a talk about the lack of moderation and over abundence of the reminiscent "high school gossip." Er0k and i have talked to others on IRC and there are more that agree with us. in my eyes, the lack of a decient moderator, NOT an OP/OPER but MODERATOR causes the conversation to go downhill. I think that we should look into electing a few moderators for the chat. They should keep people on topic for the most part, and kick people that bring in non usefull and bullshit conversation.

i will say that sometimes bullshit conversation is needed. but when someone comes in with a question, a moderator should make sure they get helped. If a guest comes in and starts asking about hacking hotmail, Moderators should warn them. if they dont heed to the warning, kick/ban them. no more toying around with them. if you think this should be an OP/OPERS job...then ask them why they dont do there job.
--SarinMage


Ok, for the partitioned rooms. whenever you join AO IRC, you are automatically taken to a single room. that room has many users on there of all skilz, intelligence, maturity and ages. Now this has become a problem. We ask that 2 rooms be auto-joined. One being named, Antionline, the other being named AOusers. the ao users be the ones that want to come in and chit-chat. Antionline the primary chat for the people wanting to learn/discuss tech/security issues in general. Now the Antionline chat should be STRICTLY moderated The AOusers chat can be basically what the main is now...except slightly more moderated. This will keep ppl from growing off topic and inhibiting ppl's learning experience. the ao irc has become what we have termed "high school popularity contest" we enjoy the irc when it runs like it is supposed to, and do not want to leave.

--er0k

hmm,

As an IRC chatter of both sorts (I give and receive information as much as I give and receive flak) I think its a fairly good idea. There are times when a guest enters with a perfectly valid question and is met with childish horseplay (but we love childish horseplay!!!) Its natural for problems like this to happen, however lately I think everyone is getting rather frustrated with each other over it. A small problem is turning us all against each other and that... is a bad thing.

In my world a lot of my actions affect my work, my career. At this time in my life my career happens to be very important, when I need information I have found IRC (and notably antionline) to be one of my best sources. As any of you who have read my posts know I'm long winded (sorry) I'll be blunt here.

Really, I turn to this place for advice, and support. I also hope that I have helped aid in providing advice and support to others... the community is much larger now, large enough that separation of "play" and "serious" may be needed. I dont know, really I have my own ways of reaching those I have met here to get information, but for a guest or someone new who needs info... they have a harder time. JP really is the one who has control over the forums, and although I dont know if its right I would suggest looking into some sort of separation or at least pushing the forums back into shape (more serious).

well theres my $10.25.... lets all do each other a favor and relax a bit, have fun and learn from each other eh..... and if you see Matty_Cross ... buy him a round!!

We the users determine how the chat room goes. If an op or oper isn't in the room and a Guest is misbehaving just do a /ignore. It is not just the op/oper's fault for all this stuff happening. Perhaps everyone should look at how they are behaving on #antionline and you will discover that its not a few that are the problem but a good 80% of us. We are a community and it will only get better if we make it better.

I myself have become a more and more regular in the IRC channel. I am not so partial to the operator idea, because it poses more problems than it fixes.

For example. What happens when there is no mode/op/oper in the chat? Not everyone with 'godlike' powers in IRC can be on all the time, and sitting answering questions, and banning disruptive people.

Another this is, when voting, what is to say that people who alread have +v or +o won't be selected. Negative, Juridian and Liran are the IRC 'gods' I see most frequently. Giving them more power will only lengthen the totem pole for the rest of us, trying to work our way up in status at AO.

I DO however agree with the second idea. If there was an #AO-users channel, that would mostly eliminate the need for a moderator in #AntiOnline. I know that conversation can get a little risque in IRC, but it's all part of the fun. If people want to have normal "high school gossip" conversations, then let them do it in a place designed for it.

I agree with The_Magistrate on this,

an #AO-Users channel for chit-chat and #antionline for security discussion.




p3pC

Bwahahahaha....the ao-users channel won't work. We started with #chitchat...that died quickly. Now there is #chat....which is usually just myself. It is rarely used by others for non techie chat. And usually when I tell people to take it there they whine, bitch, etc.

heres the thing.. there can be bullshit in the chat....jsut when a guest or someone with a questions enters....the moderator makes sure that the question gets answered.... i had a HUGE fight with some people in the IRC chat saying that this can never work its beeen tried etc etc....but i think it can work.. .if we work hard enough together we can make the chat a lot more friendly for new people.

It won't work.......

It's been tried and failed........too many prejudices.

I propose that we just create an #answers chat room. If a guest comes in and has a question, whoever knows the answer tell them to join #answers (or whatever) and answer his question. This way people won't be told to leave the main channel (because no one ever does), and people can continue their conversations. Like yesterday er0k wanted me to help him buoild a computer, so we just brought it to another room and everything was fine. At the same tim I was helping someone else overclock, and again we took it to another room, and everything was fine.


The main room will always be filled with all kinds of talk. It is a sort of lounge for the AO'ers while at work. I know I go in their because I just need a break from working.

I agree that the talk does get somewhat ... umm.. "non-security related" but thats to be expected. Most of the people in there deal with computers all day, everyday.. to expect them to want to talk about it in their all the time also, is just unrealistic.

As for the Mods, they do a good job IMO. Agreed that they arn't always present when we need them, but that is to be expected. I think that there should be some chain of command that the Ops discuss as to who will get temp ops till another op arrives, then give up the temp ops to the regular ops. Seems simple enough in my mind.

Well those are my thougts.

/me agrees with Sarin and voulenteers to become a mod :rofl:

I aggree with sarin.. I've been wanting AO to be something informative for a long time. Hogfly and louie have taught me quite a bit tho, and I am grateful for that. However, it would be nice to discuss complicated topics regularly and to be able to learn and ask/answer questions. It's also nice to be able to chill out. (that's where the 2nd room comes in)
I mean tell me if I'm wrong. I thought the original idea for #antionline and www.antionline.com was to inform people about security and technical topics, to be a free flow of information. I mean if you want to chitchat go onto dalnet.
My two pents.....

thats retarded.....#antionline isn't a "help me, I'm to lame to do the research myself" channel. Its a community chat room. And if someone WANTS to help you fine, if not, to bad get over it.

xactally... the #antionline chat thats auto-joined should be for serious things, and another room for the chit chat.... people that want to chat should be able to type /join#chat.... people that want answers shouldent need top

I agree with xmaddness. After all, AO IS a community, and banning general chatting from the main room would be a form of censorship IMHO. Why not have a 'help' room for security/computer related questions? Food for thought.

again i say, im not proposing we ban ALL general chatting im saying MODERATE it a bit more... when someone comes in with a specific question, wait till there question is answered, (or not if noone knows)

i mean isent AO is a place where people come for help?

I think we are fine with just one autojoin chatroom, as attempts in the past have failed to divide the channel. As for moderators- that is the job of both OPs and IRCops. I think they are doing a fine job at what they do and we really dont need anymore of them as I usually see at least 1 active OP/IRCop at all times.

Quote:

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Originally posted here by gamemaster6502
I think we are fine with just one autojoin chatroom, as attempts in the past have failed to divide the channel. As for moderators- that is the job of both OPs and IRCops. I think they are doing a fine job at what they do and we really dont need anymore of them as I usually see at least 1 active OP/IRCop at all times.

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Gamemaster, the idea of partitioning the chats is plain and simple, and hasn't been done like this before. What we would like to do, is have one main room, that everyone connects to, another main room that everyone connects to. The techie stuff will go on in #antionline, and be very strictly moderated. You will not be kicked/banned unless you have been warned to go to the other channel. Both channels are autojoin, that way we have as many users as normal joining in both the chats. This way, the guests can come in and get help/partake in security/techie discussions, or go in the other room and ramble. IT is a good idea and should be thought about rather than just saying "well its been done before yada yada" its never been autojoin with the both channels. The reason in which the autojoin is essential, is that the same amount of people are in the channels and can participate in both discussions. The idea of the moderator is not so strict. It will be the same as it has always been except for the techie channel. IF we dont have it autojoin, guests wont always be able to get help, and the people that wanna just sit around and yak about sex or whatever would just sit in the main room. Now if we have them divided, they are in both and have no excuse but to use the right room. This way the new system is forced to work. Rather than it failing. With the autojoin, it wont fail.

Oh geez c'mon. Let IRC be for goodness sakes... Don't complain about it! Its fine how it is. :)

Guys, your taking stuff way out of hand, basically you guys want IRC to be what it USED to be, this is long long ago, when there were about an average of 7 people there at a time and most of the chitchat was technical but also alot of fun went on.

Face it, when a community goes from 7 chatters to 30 the topic seems to change, people seem to find other people with more in commen then just computers, when that happens the topic alters.... i REALLY dont want to kick people out that are talking about everyday stuff, i mean sure sometimes it gets out of hands with the sex talks, but most of us are adults and we can handle it, and YOU ARE ALL guilty of participating in it, including me!

I started the room #chitchat before, i even had a #ChitChatBot in there that OPed people to keep some moderation in there as well, but it worked for like 4 days and died out.

I have a huge suggestion.... you dont like IRC how it is, then leave! If you want only technical talk, then come in when you have a technical questiion. But face it, i dont have a technical question 24 horus a day so i like to chit chat about everything else in my life, and get to know everyone in the chat for who they are and not what kind of computer they have.

Quote:

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Originally posted here by Dome
Guys, your taking stuff way out of hand, basically you guys want IRC to be what it USED to be, this is long long ago, when there were about an average of 7 people there at a time and most of the chitchat was technical but also alot of fun went on.

Face it, when a community goes from 7 chatters to 30 the topic seems to change, people seem to find other people with more in commen then just computers, when that happens the topic alters.... i REALLY dont want to kick people out that are talking about everyday stuff, i mean sure sometimes it gets out of hands with the sex talks, but most of us are adults and we can handle it, and YOU ARE ALL guilty of participating in it, including me!

I started the room #chitchat before, i even had a #ChitChatBot in there that OPed people to keep some moderation in there as well, but it worked for like 4 days and died out.

I have a huge suggestion.... you dont like IRC how it is, then leave! If you want only technical talk, then come in when you have a technical questiion. But face it, i dont have a technical question 24 horus a day so i like to chit chat about everything else in my life, and get to know everyone in the chat for who they are and not what kind of computer they have.

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Liran - I see what you are saying, i really do. But as sarin and myself have stated, the rooms will be on auto-join. You can talk about random stuff, and talk about puters at the same time. The reason why the chitchat room didnt work, WAS because it wasnt autojoin. People arent going to utilize something that they dont have to go to if they can just yack about the same stuff in the main room. With the new moderation and the divided rooms, the same amount of users will be able to do the same stuff, it will just be kept neat and organized, instead of a bunch of garble all rolling into one. This is just a dream me and sarin have, im not saying that jp has any priority to put this in effect or not, its just a suggestion, hence the name - site suggestions, and irc being part of the site. -er0k

liran agian im saying.... as ive said about 5 million times already THERE CAN/SHOULD BE SOME BULLSHIT IN THE IRC CHAT BUT THERE IS AN EXCESSIVE AMOUNT RECENTALLY. THATS my problem. I understand that there is goign to be bullshit but the ops should start doing a better job at making sure people ge tthe help that they come here for.

OK you know what, lets try this out for 2 weeks, we have an #antionline channel and a #chitchat channel, AntiChat will reside on both of these chats and on #antionline it is strictly security and tech related, on #chitchat it is chat.

I already predict 1 of 2 things, either people wont even chat in #chitchat and #antionline will stay the same, or #chitchat will become the new popular place and #antionline will have a word every few hours.

but i guess its worth a try.

quote : Ok, for the partitioned rooms. whenever you join AO IRC, you are automatically taken to a single room. that room has many users on there of all skilz, intelligence, maturity and ages. Now this has become a problem. We ask that 2 rooms be auto-joined. One being named, Antionline, the other being named AOusers. the ao users be the ones that want to come in and chit-chat. Antionline the primary chat for the people wanting to learn/discuss tech/security issues in general. Now the Antionline chat should be STRICTLY moderated The AOusers chat can be basically what the main is now...except slightly more moderated. This will keep ppl from growing off topic and inhibiting ppl's learning experience. the ao irc has become what we have termed "high school popularity contest" we enjoy the irc when it runs like it is supposed to, and do not want to leave. :

ok guys, obviously you haven't learned your IRC commands and don't know much about how the server is set up. #antionline is for general chatting. Anything goes in there. Whether it is bullshit, tech, geek, etc etc. If you knew your irc commands IE /list you could see all of the other channels on the server. #security...***GASP*** what's that you say hogfly ? There is already a #security channel ???????? YES, there is already another channel for strictly security or security related chatting. If you guys bothered to think before you typed you would already know that #security existed, and was in use. But all the people I talk to are in #antionline....So join both channels. /join #security and another chat window will automagically appear in your client.

The server is already split up. Get over yourselves guys.

Quote:

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Originally posted here by SarinMage
liran agian im saying.... as ive said about 5 million times already THERE CAN/SHOULD BE SOME BULLSHIT IN THE IRC CHAT BUT THERE IS AN EXCESSIVE AMOUNT RECENTALLY. THATS my problem. I understand that there is goign to be bullshit but the ops should start doing a better job at making sure people ge tthe help that they come here for.

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Sarin: you guys need to stop your bitching and again...think before you type. you bitch and moan that we don't do what we are supposed to ???? When we do, you whining *******s question our judgement and call it "OP/OPER abuse" If someone really wants or needs help go to #security or PM the person you are talking to. For ****s sake stop your whining. You all sound like little school girls.

Hey, why don't we have everyone automatically join #oper, just in case they want to bitch about oper abuse so we don't have to listen to it in #antionline? And while we are at it, have everyone join #security since there is already a bot in there... Ok, then while we are at it, lets have everyone join #rumors, so you can all listen to the fun rumors that Louie and I start. Gee, while we are at it, lets get a #newbie room going and have everyone autojoin that also, just in case they are new to IRC. Oh wait. 7 months ago, people were complaining that the autojoin existed at all. Everyone was like, What if I don't want to be in #antionline. Why do I have to autojoin it? Especially when they were testing something and needed more then 1 client, and someone would kill the second client for cloning.

Common people, give me a break. I wasn't going to get involved in this thread, because I really thought it was going to die out a lot faster. Have you people really paid any attention to what happens in IRC? Why do you think Louie is no longer an OPER. Because he tried to moderate the room like SarinMage claims he wants. Why, cause the majority of the people didn't want it. If you don't like the direction the room is going, change it... While I was on yesterday, I saw 3 different questions asked. One, I took care of (in a /msg), one hogfly took care of, and the third I didn't see anyone respond to. I couldn't because I didn't know the answer. And yes, most of you that are now complaining were online at the time.

Ok, I am going to teach you all 2 really simple commands now.....
The first is /list
This command is used to give you a listing of all the channels on the IRC server.... Try it sometime, there is more then just 1. Just type /list
The second is /join
This command allows you to join another channel (you can do it yourself, you don't have to autojoin a channel). Just type /join #channame
Now wasn't that easy????

School girls school girls, erok and Sarin are school girls... I am off to tell the teacher on both of them!

i never stated oper abuse, you guys have never done anything to me EVER. i was talking about the room in general, stop taking **** personally.

I am suggesting that this thread be closed because its a waste of space. There will be no resolution, and AO IRC will not be changed. We need not get angry at each other and start fighting over such a pointless matter. To the mods, please close the thread. :)

this thread sounds like the last irc thread, and that one sounds like the one before and it ;)

see where I am going with this?

Greetings:

Ok, a good idea, I like it.

When you connect to the IRC server, you will now auto-join

#GeneralChitChat

and

#TechnicalDiscussions