Belgian weapons...

Belgian weapons-factory FN received an order for 5,500 machine guns last week...
I knew we Belgians had a weapons-factory, but what I did not know was that we had the biggest one worldwide (bigger than Heckler and Koch, Colt,...)... and it kinda bothers me...

Here's the story:

Belgian FN receives an order for 5,500 machine guns... the FN factory is partially owned by the Belgian government, and the government decides to approve the order... The minister in charge doesn't want to reveal the destination of the weapons...

One week later, it turns out those weapons were ordered by the Nepal government....
According to human rights organisations, there's a civil war going on in Nepal. The European Union interdicts the sale of weapons to countries that are in a civil war. The Belgian minister: "OK... it ain't a model-democracy, but hey... the goverment is being attacked by 'guerillero's', so we have the right to support that government'.

Untill now, 4,700 people were killed in that war.

On the FN weapons: The machine gun in question. The same machine gun is used by the American army (known as the M249). FN's American division makes it, and the US exports it to countries such as Bolivia, Tunesia and Colombia (that's right, Colombia...).

But, yunno, at least they're not using them in your own country.

Negative, yep FN (FN Herstal) is big and famous.
For instance in Africa the street word for a machine gun is a 'belgique'
FN also produces the P90 this weapon fires SS190 ammunition perforating 48 layers of kevlar body armor... complete insane.

Quote:

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FN also produces the P90 this weapon fires SS190 ammunition perforating 48 layers of kevlar body armor... complete insane.

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Do they accept small orders from private individuals?
We have a problem around here of deer damaging
our fruit trees.
:cool:

Dang, rc....you gonna get the whole herd with just one shot or what?

hmm... Belgian embassy guards have the P90 and Five-Seven hand version.
You want to take out 48 deers with one shot?

The main debate here is economics vs ethics
and perhaps also a language question (FN = "Fabrique Nationale")

Well economics VS ethics is becoming a big issue now.
In Holland same **** is happening because the ABN Amro banc has investments in cluster bombs.
I guess now everything is all about the money, the world has no ethics :(

I know that France has some problems to sell all it helicopters.
So...Rcgreen, if you want, you could regulate definitively your deers problems and relaunch our war industries!!!!!!!

Looks like a debate that nobody can win here folks....If the Belgians decline to accept the order, then there no doubt will be someone else there to fill it. I'd say the odds are pretty good that China probably has 5000 AK-47's they could ship out today if needed. Personally, I'd rather see Belgium get the economic benefit. No matter where you stand on guns or gun control, the fact of the matter is that guns don't kill people....people kill people. If they can't do it with a gun, they'll just find something else to use. If you outlaw the guns, then only outlaws will have guns, so thats not an answer either. Guess thats the way it goes in a world where dollars outweigh morals, huh?

Arms’ dealing is industrial country’s dirty little secrets. The U.S being the master of mixing weapon sales and foreign policy. What happens is there’s a conflict of some kind some were in the world. The U.S picks the side they want to win and either sells the weapons or in some cases gives them away. If the side they back wins they owe the U.S a big favor and the U.S gains some control over who ever rules, if the side they back loses its no big deal because they racked in a bunch of cash selling weapons.

The question I find my self asking is if you give a weapon to some one knowing that they are going use it to kill someone how are you better then the people who give money to terrorist. In the end your promoting human suffering witch we all know is wrong. And no its no ok if you say "Some one else will sell them weapons so it might as well be us."

just my $0.02

Well like was said earlier, it's all about money. Do you think these people honestly give a **** if some country is killing each other? And the obvious answer is they don't as long as the money comes in. If they could find a way to make money off de-arming the country I'm sure the statement about guerrileros would change and they would complain about how horrible the government is. Well that's just my 2 cents.

Both groups in Nepal are not respecting human rights.
FN Herstal is partly owned by the state governement of Wallonië (Wallonië is a state of federal Belgium), they want to sell the factory to a private partner, and this big weapon delivery helps to convince the new partner. The federal governement however refers to a law from 1991 indicating that no weapons should be sold to countries at war. If FN (Belgium) does not deliver those weapons many people loose their work... if FN does deliver those weapons many people will be killed... if you put it that way it's easy to choose. But like said above, if FN does not deliver those weapons perhaps another country or factory will.

Well I guess up that level it all comes down to having a spinal cord or not.
Did Belgium get a lot of criticism from other EU countries about this?? I only read about it in todays paper.

I don't think so. I only heard about internal Belgians problems...

LOL, our minister foreign affairs, Louis Michel, is realy funny, he now changed the official advice to tourists visiting Nepal. According to Belgian governement sources Nepal is no longer at war, only dangerous and not adviced to visit. Since Nepal isn't at war, FN Herstal can deliver those weapons. !!!!!! And someone believes that?

It's also known that germany blocked a similar delivery to Nepal. This is good news for the green party, who wants to stop the transport. One small problem: their minister (Magda Aelvoet) in the governement did not do a thing to stop it. Another detail (Aelvoet speaks Dutch, Michel speaks French...) According to the opposition (Catholic party) this is all about power. Louis Michel (Liberal party) wants to show Aelvoet (Green party) who has the power. Our governement consists of Liberals, Socialists and Green ministers. Argh politics :(

What a buncha hypocrites.
A country is either safe or not safe to visit, either due to instable governments or civil war.
Socialist+liberal+green = creates the same mess we had ruling Holland for 8 years.

But then again will the right winged ppl do a better job now?
Guess you guys will deal with Philip de Winter at some point :)

IMHO Everthing is better than those crazy almost neo-nazi freaks

Money ules the world! It is too bad that you can´t live in this world without having money! I would like a world where money is needless!

Well i think whether it is about money or power or just to prove a point, it always comes down to the same thing:Somebody always gets hurt and usually it is the least deserving.

Regards
v/man