Process Detection?

Hey, my chemistry teacher this year is giving tests online. He said that we cannot open any IE browser windows, or have any IMs, because the site the test is on will detect it and auto-submit it to the server, giving you whatever grade (even if you didn't finish) and you can't retake it.

Every instinct in my body told me that this was BS. Possible? Yes. Likely? Not at all. The most sophisticated thing I've seen that's even remotely related to this is a site closing if you close a popup ad or something. But he's suggesting that the site can tell if you've done anything, like had an IM, or opened a new browser. My question is, is this true? Or do you think he's just bluffing?

If a program had core level control of your box, and can tell what you're doing, possibly. But if you have IE's security level set to high, not even the most malicious Javascript and Active X could tell something like that? Right?

By the way, don't flame me and give me negs about cheating in chemistry. It's a question about whether a site can do that or not.

Thanks,
Ramzi

more than likely it's done through the detection of whether or not the test browser is the active window (which is accomplishable in javascript, no extra perms or controls needed).

here's an easy work-around...get a second pc, you could also use a kvm to minimize movement between transissions between the two.

actually, i just came up with ~ 10 more possibilies (mostly programmatic and would require significant setup)...but here's another easy one.

establish a terminal session and use it to take the test (it's enclosed in the terminal client window) - which can lose focus from the other local windows without effecting the detection in the script.

i love this site...

anon neg

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dont destablize the educational system

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response: i didn't realize that the educational system was isolated to this type of security practice.

that is possiable there are programs out there that can detect other programs running on your computer. you see almost all programs use the internet for some resourse but the program will most likely detect it thru your ip address the server will ping your computer to see what ports are open and if it comes up with a chat or IM port then it would give the command to summit the test.

Null, he'd have to be running a netstat server in order to provide that kind of info. A portscan, which is legally dubious, might do it, but a regular ICMP echo just doesn't provide that kind of information. Droby's javascript idea would work, but I'm not sure it could provide enough concrete information to accuse someone of cheating. Seeing as how most ways of doing this are more trouble then they are worth, I'm leaning towards BS myself.

PS. Cheaters never win!

I just saying that its possiable if you really think about it there are web pages out there that can display my contents of my hard drive so what to say it cant see whats being ran.

The reason why the port scan theory won't work is because I can have processes running in the background, but not necessarily mean I'm using them. For example, I might be a dedicated server for a game, or be downloading something. My port will be open. If the test was auto-submitted for ports being open, no one would get to take the test.

The other reason is, what if I'm running a firewall? I may be connecting to the site on port 80, but I don't give it permission to try and access other ports, or see if they're open.

I think some people were hesitent to post because they don't want to aid in cheating. Trust me guys, it wasn't about that. My question was strictly a technical one, not a request for methods to cheat. I already knew several. I mean, logically, if you give a kid a test to take on his own time, anywhere there is a connection to the Internet, there's no way to prevent the simplest form of cheating. Call a friend while taking the test, use your book, use two computers, etc, etc. I just wanted to know if what my teacher told me had any factual and technical basis to it, not necessarilly how I wanted to cheat. Give me some credit. A retarded monkey could figure out how to cheat. You're a fool to think I couldn't.

That little rant directed to no one in particular.

That Javascript theory might be it. I accidently clicked a test, and hit back on my browser. I still was able to open it back up again. My browser never left focus as the active window though. If it is Javascript, it should be visible in the source code. Then I should just be able to copy and paste the source, delete the script, and take the test that way.

Hmmm, methinks "hocus-pocus". if i were administering the test i'd probably tell you the same thing but frankly educational terminals are primarily educational, not overloaded with IM techies, ...unless they're hiring a third-party security outfit to administer the test which is an unlikely possibility. i'm sure they as well as you know at least a dozen ways a confused student could cheat on a remotely-taken test, but doktorf00bar said it best; "Cheaters never win".

Good points Ramzi. Can you imagine an instructor accusing people of cheating on such spurious evidence? Can you say "entirely circumstancial"?


PS My last PS was kinda in jest, BTW. I believe you.

Thanks for the points, doktorf00bar. I knew you weren't calling me a cheater. My message was directed to the anonymous person who negged droby10. Anyone who throws negs around foolishly at me or anyone who tried helping me is a *****, because they're just trying to balance out or something.

Null_Session, thanks for the attempt. Your answer seemed thought-out and logical, but it just isn't the case. So you know, those sites that can show you all the contents of your harddrive don't actually show you all the contents of your harddrive. Internet Explorer is a shell of Windows Explorer. You can browse your harddrive, going through folders and opening up files in Internet Explorer. What sites like that do is just display YOUR harddrive to YOU. They can't see any of it.

Really, thanks for all the help guys. Learned some things today that I wouldn't have otherwise.

Ramzi

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Really, thanks for all the help guys. Learned some things today that I wouldn't have otherwise.

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what...like a large group of people at ao, who are supposedly "security-conscience" are the first to plug their ears, gag their neighbors, and blind-fold their children when anything controversial comes up?

Droby10, I don't quite understand your last post.

Anyways, here's the update: I finally logged into the server, checked it all out, and took my tests. I was able to open IE windows, and have IMs, and still continue the test. I first filled in all the answers, and then did everything just in case. Nothing happened. There is a link, "submitted exams." I clicked that link before submitting mine. Nothing showed up there. I hit back on my browser, the submit my test, and went back to the submitted exams page, and it was updated. It was all BS. He only said things to scare us. I saved the source of the site also, just to see if there was any Javascript. Here's all I got:
<script language=JavaScript>
<!-- HIDE
function check() {
return true;
}
// STOP HIDING FROM OTHER BROWSERS -->
</script>

I hope that shows up. Anyways, it's nothing. I think that's some code to submit data to the server, or something, but not to view active processes.

Also, my teacher was bragging in class about how no one ever hacked that site, but just by looking at it it seemed insecure. The passwords are delivered to your E-Mail in plain text, you can alter information by changing things in the URL. He says that if you want to change anything on your account, E-Mail him through a Perl form on the site. Haha. Could he make it any easier to forge an E-Mail. And get this, your password is saved in the value of an HTML text box. And I wasn't even trying! Now comes the decision whether you tell someone about all the insecurities or not...

Ramzi

People are stupid.
However teachers (esp highschool age) seem to be the peak of dumb IT ness, when thier students usually know more.

Classic example,
I use to cheat at school, no one would let you install anything on the computers and registry etc was very locked down.
I did it by using net send..
Of cause they didnt have any firewalls between any of the subnets so if i knew the machine a friend was on, i could send a winpopup to him (alerter was running on every box) and he would reply.

Cheating didnt get me anywhere, i mean hell, i still passed the final exam, i just had better things to do than study (like a real coding job).

However it got more fun when i decided to send broadcasted winpopup messages.. Ok, i was new to computer security, and could of done alot more advanced attack now, but hey it worked fine.. I wrote a small bat file and added it into the startup of 10 computers around the campus. Then rebooted one by one,

somthing like

do while(1) {
net send * $random-message
}


The admin **** himself as every computer in the camus was dos'd by millions and millions of messages.. The same dude had even bragged to me that his network was so secure.. The sad thing is the admin pass on every pc was the ****ing schools name =)

People are stupid, too many people teach IT yet dont fully understand it themselfs..
Your case of 'scaring' the students is the classic way, why not make the students find a way to stop themselfs from cheating? Teach security at highschool i say, too many dumb it admins out there.

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Good points Ramzi. Can you imagine an instructor accusing people of cheating on such spurious evidence? Can you say "entirely circumstancial"?

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Where I went to school, if a teacher says you cheated, YOU CHEATED. What does evidence have to do with it? ;)