.:How Well Do You Know Someone?:.

How well do we really know someone, or at least think you do? Over the past couple of days, I have asked myself that same question over and over.

http://www.drc.state.oh.us/cfdocs/in...&offnum=385989
http://www.the-review.com/Site%20Arc...0121local.html
http://venus.soci.niu.edu/~archives/...an00/0178.html
http://www.the-review.com/Site%20Arc...0119local.html

Joseph Wilkes was someone I grew up with, and was very close to. He was a great friend, very sweet, the kind of guy that was raised right. Not once, did it ever cross my mind that he would ever think of harming someone in the way he murdered the Alliance woman. He was just a good friend. He had his problems, like anyone else I knew. Growing up and being a teenager, we all did. There were times where we were all on the verge of being 'kicked out' or wanted to leave home because we didn't get our way about something. That was just the way things were then.

I've read over these articles a thousand times, searching for some clue. But the monster in the arcticles isn't the person that I knew at all. I don't know who he is. It makes me question so many things. And it scares me to think that it could have been me. He took so little money for the crime, who's to say he wouldn't have taken money to do the same to me?

I've 'known' him for years...or at least I thought I did. I guess I didn't really know him at all.

So, my question is:

How do you know someone? How do you know when they're capable of doing something like this, even though, everything you've ever thought of them...never entailed murder?

(Also, this is something that happened a few years ago now, but it has just come to mind recently, so forgive the ancient articles.)

First I would like to say that I am sorry this happened. Second I would like to answer your question by saying that you only "know" someone as well as the let you "know" them. How can anyone "know" anyone else? How can one person know how another persons mind works? How well do most people know themselves? Humans are very complex organisms when it comes to the way their brains work. I wont spend much more time on this, I only want to ask one last question. Ask yourself this, Can you honestly say that you would know how you would react if a stranger off the street walked up to you and held a gun to your head? Would you run? Would you pass out? Would you fight back? I can honestly say that I can not predict how I would react if this were to happen to me. I would like to say that the person that did this better have a good reason for doing so and be a good aim because I would definitly kick their ASS for doing this, but then again I could just as easily break down and cry and piss my pants on the spot. Well, enough of my thoughts spewing forth. Im off to work now.

Greek,

I understand the point of your post, that you never really know someone and to be honest "Anyone is capable of anything". However, your post just sparked something else in me, and my rants went full throttle. I was reading the articles and I was paying more attention to the incident in hand rather than your former friend. That Thorne individual is one Fracked Up Piece of Shiznit. The loser put a $200. contract on the Mother's of his son head so he didn't have to pay child support? Can someone explain this to me? Then contacted your friend who was strung out on cocaine and LSD, because who in their right mind would murder for $200.? The worse part of this whole situation is that the boy is w/ the fathers family. I feel so sorry for that little boy. He is going to be brained washed his whole life. They are going to tell him his mother died in an accident or something, until he is old enough to put 2 and 2 together, and then I hope he bitch slaps that piece of Shiznit that claims to be his father, attends counseling for the rest of his life, and struggles to lead a normal healthy life. This shiznit is Funked Up....

May I just say this: "Allow me to write to my son from prison and be a father to him,". Yes, son I paid $200. to have your mother slained so I didn't have to pay child support for you, but I still want you in my life. Again may I say WTF?

It's obviously a case of drug abuse.. and obviously some heavy drug abuse. The guy in the pictures looks pretty strung out..

Greek- Was he a drug abuser when you knew him? If not, it is very possible that he was not the same person you knew at the time he committed the crime.

I personally have been on the victim end of a criminal act that was committed by someone strung out on coke.. And that person had been my best friend at one time.. They were definitely not the same person with the drugs in their life.

people have two side`s, like a yin and yang.
obvoisly his bad side was taken to the extreme, ive seen good people turn bad, and visa versa (like me) its a shame how someone can get kicked down so much, he does summin bad to get even, ob.s he couldnt take any more

Preep

Before you get to know someone else, Do you know who you are??? This may seem a simple question but it may take a long time to answer. The answer may come in many different shapes and sizes. So when he did this horrendous act he may have or have not known who he was at the time. So can you really know someone??? I do not believe that you can.

Apparently a good life is worth $200...


...And an evil one is only 30 years in a cell.

u never truely know anyone.. nor do u even ever truely know urself..

for all u know u could have split personalitys that uve never seen that may develope later in ur life and u could go around killing people 2

****ed up world we live in, and even more ****ed up people that we live in it with

--NetSyN

It takes most people an entire lifetime to get to know themselves. And most people never get to know every aspect of themselves. Most people don't get to know how they'd react in extreme situations, simply because they won't have to face them. Therefore I think it's wrong to judge that person by the way he reacted in an extreme situation. That doesn't change anything about the fact that he murdered someone and should be punished, of course.

I honestly don't know how I'd react myself if I were hungry and on drugs, and someone offered me 200 bucks to murder someone. We probably all like to think of ourselves as 'cool' and not being influencable by things like that. Easy to say if you're not in that situation, I guess...

Therefore, I don't think you'll ever know if someone is capable of doing something like that unless you actually see that person being faced with a situation that could lead to this kind of behaviour.

I can understand how something like this makes one question his own judgement of people, how this could make one suspicious about everything that looks like a 'clue' that 'announces' behaviour like that. And while it's important to look for those kind of clues in order to prevent something like that from happening, it shouldn't dominate your friendship/relationship; and you can't be blamed for not having noticed it - if there were anything to notice at all, that is.

I am sorry to hear that, GreekGoddess.
One thing I can say is that you must known him one point.
I mean human change depends on their experiences, and environment. Thats how people 'develop', and not 'change'.

One more thing is money gets people. for any reason.
which is really sad.

I think it was good that you put this question in here, because I have simillar story on it, (rather not mention)

But your moment with him, that u used to know, will stay eternal and dnt let this sad thing change ur feeling towards him.

take care.

Your story is very interesting. Before I get philosophical about it though I would like to point out that I spotted three tragedies and three appalling things.

Tragedy 1: The death of a mother.
Tragedy 2: A son betrayed by his father and losing his mother
Tragedy 3: A young man, 19 years old who now will live the rest of his life behind bars

Appalling 1: $200 dollars for a life
Appalling 2: A man who values child support money over any human especially over the mother of his son, and of course his son as well.
Appalling 3: Other people with evidence of the crime did not come forward to aid police until it was forced upon them by other influences.

This is not just one man you don't know, this is a whole cross section.

Now let me point out some facts that I feel are pertinent to your question. Most mass murderers have been described and polite, shy, and gentle. They are two people within one body. Child molesters are most often friendly to children, gentle with them, and attract them through helping them with problems they are dealing with. That is of couse before they become the over riding problem the child will deal with for the rest of their life.

However, without outside influence the inner character will normally come out with too close an association (which is why both of these types of animals tend to be loners). You can get to know someone fairly well through time. However, if there is little true intimacy (and I don't mean physical) then there is little true learning. In the end, though, I must agree with most of the posters here, If I don't want you to you will never really get to know me.

This is why it is so important that we are careful. As a college adjunct professor I make it a rule that I will never be alone with a student. They don't know me well enough and I don't know them, my reputation is on the line and I protect that. When I taught Sunday School our Church had a rule that there would always be two adults in a room with the children. I think that is brilliant. Children need to be protected. When my son was growing up he tried to become a baby sitter and few people would hire him. Although he was upset I had to admit that I would not hire a teenaged boy (or even a young adult) to babysit if I had younger children. Why? Because the percentage chance of harm happening to my child increases dramatically with a male babysitter over a female (BTW I am male and I did babysit as a teenager). It is my duty to protect my children as well as I can. This does not guarantee anything because child abuse by babysitters etc. knows no gender boundary.

I do believe age can bring some discernment. I know that I pick a far more conservative set of friends now than I did in my teenage years. Still at least one of those friends has had trouble with the law and faced sex related charges. Even now I can easily wonder what may happen with others that I consider "sane and normal".

One last word though if I may. While I cannot tell for sure whether someone is a saint or a monster. While I may not know some of the dark secrets of those I meet. I also am not willing to become a hermit and close myself off from humanity. I am not willing to become so distrustful that I will trust no one. I will protect myself and my reputation. I will try to protect those in my charge. I will not let fear of the possible ruin my life.

Sincerely

I thank you all for your replies. Honestly, looking back...if I had any notion that he needed money, I would have found a way to give it to him. He did have problems growing up, he was older than me. I knew that he smoked marijuana and drank. He went to a lot of parties that I snuck out to go to as well.

I have no intentions of letting this inhibit my future relationships with people, and it hasn't thusfar, but it would be a lie to say it never crossed my mind.

I've read Viktor Frankl's "Man's Search for Meaning" after this happened. It describes the effects on him during the holocaust. He describes the people around him. Many people looked at the Jewish who became part of the S.S. as lower officers and had special priviledges as bad, but in their situation, they would do anything to survive, even if it meant turning against their own people (to get more food, free time, maybe see their families again).

The last time I saw Joe, was on the street in Ravenna, very close to the murder. School had been called off, and my friend and I usually spent those days walking around town and window shopping. He seemed the same as I always had known him, looking back, there never was anything out of the ordinary about that day. It's true that you never know what you're capable of when faced with certain situations...

Unfortunately, for some people, you learn that the hard way....

IMHO, the unpredictability of people is what makes life great...Sometimes (in the case of GG) it can bring you extreme sadness and make you question your very self. Other times it can bring a sheer joy that can't be put into words...


It's the "ups and downs" that truly make life woth living....

http://website-1.com/index.shtml might give you some idea?

GreekGoddess,

I know people in a similar situation... I was very close to Brad and his family... He was a "Good Kid" that had EVRYTHING handed to him on a silver plater... no one would have guessed that at the ripe old age of 19 he would beat a man to death with a maglight he borrowed from ME! He came to my house late one night saying he had broken down a few miles outside of town and needed some more light... He came up in his girlfriends car so I gave him the light and asked him if he needed any help... He said no and he and Tonya left my house... The next day I got an ambulance call (I was a paramedic at the time) for a burn victim... When I got to the scene of the fire a pick up truck was smoking in a field... The man inside was dead... A few days later he was identified as Tonya's step-father... Brad had murdered him for what he thought would be his slice of 10 million dollars in insurance and so he could have sex with both Tonya and her mother when ever he wanted... Turns out John Freeman was killed because his wife Ronda didn't know that "K" after the number 10 meant thousand... and a "Good Kid" killed because he thought love was being able to have your girlfriend and her mom at the same time... point is everyone thought they knew Brad better then Brad knew himself and as it turns out no one knew Brad, not even his Mom and Dad...

4MidgetHtimen

GreekGoddess, I thought long and hard about your question and don't have a concrete answer.

You can know someone heart and soul, for many years, and aspects of his/her life can change they way they are. I know for a fact what being a drug addict can do to you. I lost a nephew to drugs, and I don't mean he died, the person he used to be died. His body is alive, but the soul I knew is gone. The only means he lives for is his next fix and he would do anything to get the money to buy drugs. He has AIDS and little respect for those he shares needles with, basically attempted murder.

He used to be a caring individual with many things going for him. He found drugs, started out small and they got worse. Truly the man I knew years ago does not exsist anymore.

While no one can really know the response they would give until actually faced with a situation, most people are able to have an idea of how they would react.

I believe you knew your friend as he once was, I believe he is no longer that person. Even when people change like that it doesn't lessen the relationship once shared and enjoyed.

truth be known, you never actually know anyone. you become a different person, albeit just, when you are around different people, psychcologic fact.
alternatively you could ask, "how well do you know yourself?" i don't think you can begin to answer that unless you stop learning, as new information will be continuely changing Mind, your perception of the world, and hence you.

I don't know how to express all that I think reading this.
I have been a lot of different good friends and I have ever been the feeling to not really know them (and I have known some of them since I have 4)
I think all people have "theatre" personalities, these personalities are like masks and are different for each people depending of who is in the front of them. I can't say I know the real personality of my friends and, in fact, I can't be sure to know MY real personality. How could we know someone if we are not sure to know ourselves?

Maybe the main problem of all of this is the fear that people have to discover they have not real personalities, this possibility is too horrible to be accepted.

All that I can say for you GreekGodess is that, if we don't know who we and our friends are, it stay the possibility we/they are better than we think.

bonne chance.