WAR is Soon???

I have a friend living near Dublin Aiport and this is what she wrote today...
Make you think where all those planes are going???


Here is what she wrote anyway!!!
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Living so close to Dublin Airport we rarely notice planes flying right over the house as they begin their landing...nor do we notice them as they gain height in their ascent.
But you know what?
You certainly do notice things when they are not the norm.

550am this morning I was looking outside.
I was awake early because of my constant back pain ...and was standing at the back door (cup of tea in hand) looking out at the dawn breaking....cloudless sky...as I looked into the east watching the weak sun gain strength....I saw jets.....lots of jets....one after the other.....very high.....and travelling at some speed.
Hmmmmmm I thought ....immediate thoughts were of G W Bush and his threats to Iraq.
All day I have noticed ordinary planes taking off and travelling in a part of the sky that they never EVER fly in (not in the 10yrs Ive been living here)
Im wondering is GWB gathering his ammo together in a US base somewhere in Europe.
If so this adds further fuel to the Irish publics anger at our so called neutrality status being made a joke of by allowing use of our airspace by US fighter planes.

Of course Im only surmising...I have no proof that all these jets that I saw very early this morning were nothing but passenger jets flying to Russia .....all 30 -40 of them!!!!



Edited by: (Name removed) at: 9/13/02 4:13:26 pm

You know, when you hear about things like this, it makes your mind wander; I know that your intention is not to scare anyone, you're just sharing what you saw, but a person can't help but to think....

The reason i posted this was its from a friend who i believe told me the truth and its something you will not hear about on the NEWS today i bet!!

I'm no authority on military issues, but I have heard through the grapevine (a reliable source) that by the end of the year or as early as the end of this very month, something big is going to happen in the middle East. You may draw your own conclusions as to what this means, I know what it means to me but to ensure that no one gets into any trouble over this post, I'll leave it at that. Mind you, this is NOT confirmed information from any top official; I don't know anyone high up on the ladder so take it as a rumor and know that I won't be held responsible for spreading falsehoods. No offense, I just don't want put myself or anyone else knee deep in something no one wants to deal with.

There's a couple of ways to look at it, if the letter is right. First, we can hope that this time they're allowed to finish the job. The other side of the coin is, we'll be stuck in that place for years to come. You know America -- win and war and lose the peace. Look at Germany and Japan, mostly rebuilt with our money.

To answer your question Info_Au,for the time being the US government is "training in Kuwait"at least for the time being.And yes it does look like we're going to war soon.Today Saddam refused the demands of the US and UN to stop any and all production of "weapons of mass destruction" and allow inspectors into Iraq.Now that GW has addressed congress and the UN,it's time to start rolling in the troops.From what I've heard on various news stations and web sites,I'd estimate December is when the heavy fighting will begin,but the air attacks will be much sooner I'm sure.I also feel that Saddam has asked for it time and time again and that the US/Britain/Australia/whoever else decides to join in the fray are more than justified.Hopefully he can be taken out with minimum military and civilian casualties,but I have a feeling things are going to get a little messy for a while.The fanatical Muslim terrorists couldn't be more pissed off at the world right now,and as long as non-Muslims are "invading" their territory and not allowing them to oppress the general populations of their countries with their ruthless dictators,they're going to keep sending suicide bombers and hijackers and whatever else they can come up with at us.I agree with Chuck in saying lets get in there do the job,and do it right.The quicker this crap is over with the better.

Quote:

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Originally posted here by gghornet
but the air attacks will be much sooner I'm sure

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US, UK step up air war on Iraq

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/se...iraq-s06.shtml

Just FYI :D

On September 3rd the US did a mass activation of National Guard troops. In some cases entire states were activated and mobilized. If you remember desert storm, this is what happened in the July/Auguest time frame before the war. One thing to look for is trains carrying military vehicles (tanks, hmmvees) heading south.

Nate

As the spouse of a military member living on a military instalation I can say that without a doubt we will be at war with Iraq within the next few months... When it happens it won't be until AFTER the new year (This is just an educated guess on my part)... The unit my wife is assigned to is the only active duty unit in the Army that deals with the recovery of our fallen soliders remains ( Mortuary Affairs) They go in with the advance parties to set up the mortuary's and colection points for the remains... I can say with 95% accuracy that they aren't going anywhere until at least late Nov early Dec.... I agree that there will be an increase in the number of airstrikes in the coming months and a build up of troops in the region... But the "War" itself won't kick off until Jan-Feb IMHO... And as a peice of friendly advice I would keep a close eye on what transpires on that side of the pond when it does kick off... We are looking at the very real potential for WWIII in this war... Iraq has used chemica and Biological weapons in the past and I am sure they will do it again... This combined with the US doctrine of Nuclear retaliation against enemies that use NBC weapons against us could lead to a very messy conflict which will spread out of the middle east...

Food for thought anyway...

4MidgetHitmen

I don't know, folks. I vacillate from day to day on this Iraq thing. I'm convinced we need to take Saddam out. I'm convinced he, along with Iran, Saudi Arabia, Syria, and probably other Arab states are a major force in propogating terrorism and they ALL need to be dealt with.

On the other hand, I've seen war up front and personal. I've been there, done that, have the scars mental and physical, to prove it as a combat infantryman in Vietnam, and hate the thought that anybody should need to go through what I and too many others did.

World War 3? I don't know. I do think Iraq will NOT be standing alone in the next one. I sincerely, desperately hope it's a quick, surgical strike and it's over in a hurry.

I do have one last comment, regarding "innocent" civilian casualties. What is a nation? What makes up the infrastructure of that nation? Is it buildings, factories and land? If that be the case, we can walk in without firing a shot. Buildings and factories don't shoot back. A nation is the people, military and civilian. Somebody makes the weapons, clothing, vehicles, and supplies troops and food for the army. When you go to war, everybody at the muzzle end of your rifle is considered an enemy until proven otherwise. My opinion only, of course.

I agree with Chuck56... Having seen it also (Grenada 83 and Central America on and off from 84-86) I know it is something I would not wish on my worst enemy let alone someone I cared for... I have to disagree on the hope that any war with Iraq will be a quick and surgical one... We do not have the same support we did for Desert Storm... I fear, like Chuck56, that this war will spill outside of Iraq and bring the entire region, if not the world into the frey... All it is going to take are a couple of SCUD missle strike against Israel and life as we know it now ends in a blinding flash... Again this is just MHO

4MidgetHitmen

I agree that "innocent civilian casualties" is a term up for debate,especially in this kind of war.I'm not a soldier,and never have been,but I know with the likelyhood of these people having a bomb strapped to them or hand grenades stuck under their armpits,would you want to take the chance?We're fighting people who are willing to hand their 5yr. old children an AK47 and a hand grenade and send them toward allied forces.Would you want to make that decision?I think the best solution is to bomb as many of their forces as possible from the air,and then hit them with everything we have not defending the homeland.Sending a few Special Forces units in at a time is just going to be a waste of lives.We have the ability to overwelm them so lets do it.And support the troops for doing it!!!If you're not in their shoes risking your a55 then you don't have any place critisizing them for their actions.

I agree that bombing is the most effective way to neutralize enemy forces, and support for the troops is vital in any war. That means containing the d****d news media, so the military can conduct the war without the esteemed members of CNN and the rest interfering. The media can hurt us as badly as the enemy. Thank God for Fox news.

Don't underestimate the need for Special Forces interjection. Intelligence is vital, and they are very well trained and equipped to provide it. Beyond intelligence gathering and maybe precision strikes at specific targets, it will be the grunt in the grass (or sand) who takes the brunt of the war, just as in every war. Our air power can soften them. Air power can't take and hold ground.

I am in complete agreement with you on suporting our troops!!! My wife is curently deployed in support of Operation Enduring Freedom in Afganistan/Uzbekistan... I am one of those who firmly beleives that "my country right or wrong it is still MY country" and as such we should question our leaders and their motives but once the first shot is fired in anger we, as Americans should support them and our troops 110% until the last shot is fired no matter what we think of them or the war... The troops are doing nothing more than what we as the "People" ask them to do... "Please risk your life and make America safe from outside enemies so I don't have to..." Another thing people need to understand is that in EVERY war so called "innocent civilians" have died... They always have and they always will... There is no way that this can be helped... And for that I am deeply sorry...

4MidgetHitmen

if all here believe we're about to attack iraq, then the iraqi believe it as well. the fine art of chest pounding requires evidence that your serious. im still hopeful this can stay a cold war and iraq will submit to the un resolutions.

as far as the us wanting the iraqi oil the us dosn't need it. the us 'was' the fourth largest oil producer until the oil cartel all but ruined our econmy in the mid 80's by dropping its price to 4.75 per barrel from 34. the us cannot depend on a stable oil market and therefor cannot resume oil production as long as economic warfare can be expected. the alasken pipeline is rusting and although oil exploration has not stopped, wells are capped as they are found. if these countries got a bug up their royal asses and decided never to export oil again our economy would take off like a rocket. i think the only 'control' we want over their oil, is an assurance that this will not happen again.

THere is a sure fire way to make sure that the supply of oil is never interupted again... The US could "forget" to send them their grain shipments for a month or to... Let them eat sand for a few weeks and you can bet that they would do whatever we wanted when ever we wanted... But I know that the US will never do any such thing... But just think about how quick the entire region would fall in step and help outs Saddam without a shot being fired...

4MidgetHitmen

even better would be to find an affordable alternative to oil, then sadam and his crew could return to the bronze age....where they belong

alright guys,why do u think Muslim terrorists r doing this to us?
why do GWB want to attack Iraq although there r many other countries developing mass destruction?
why does the american gov support israel against palestine?

because that sick f@#k has proved he'll use them

no he didn't

Oh Yes he did... He used sarin, mustrad, and VX nerve agent on Iranian civilians in the Iran-Iraq war... He has used VX, Sarin, and possibly mustard agents against Kurds in the north of Iraq... According to a report by the DOD in late 98 or early 99 there is "strong evidence" that he used VX and sarin against US troops in the gulf during Desert Storm... He has done it MORE THAN ONCE and he WILL do it again... If not against the US than against Isreal once the shooting starts... As for why the US supports Isreal as oppsed to the Palistinians lets see... Isrealis don't go around taking hostages and hijacking airplanes for starters...

As for why the Muslum terrorists are doing this to us... That one is simple... As far as they are concerned the US is the Devil incarnate...

4MidgetHitmen

Right, umm, I'll call you 4. Once you take the step and use the stuff, it's easy from then on to use it. I don't think it was difficult for somebody like Saddam to make that decision. He's murdered members of his own family, why would he care about anonymous people, especially if they're Infidels and Jews?

I agree with you Chuck56... I think that was just one of the reasons why we didn't ever go to all out war with the USSR... We were the only country to ever use Nuclear weapons and as such I think that helped us in the Cold War... The thing that worries me abut any war with Iraq is the fact that he has used them before and if he does again the US respose to use of NBC weapons against our troops is the use of nuclear weapons... And if we have to raise the temprature in Bagdad to 5000 degrees in a nanosecond then Russia is going to feel they have to use theirs and China and Isreal and so on and so on...

4MidgetHitmen

I think there's a lot of talking that we don't know about going on in Moscow and Peking or Beijing, whatever they call the place today. I think we've got people trying to sell the invasion to them and, hopefully keep them out of it if they won't join us in the war.

We can deal with Iraq, Syria, Iran, and Saudi Arabia if necessary. We can probably handle Russia, although I don't think Russia is in a mood to tangle with us. They could barely handle Chechnya.

China is another matter entirely. It's been stated openly that our various war colleges have run scenarios involving a war with China. Using conventional weapons, we cannot beat them. We can nuke them into oblivion, of course. Depending on atmospheric conditions we might also collaterally reduce the populations of India, SE Asia, or possibly Korea and Japan depending on wind and other factors. That's the problem with nuclear weapon.

Oh yes he has TURBOWEST !


http://www.foreignwire.com/chemical.html

TEHRAN - A gaunt visage of his former self, Ahmaj Faraji's words come in tortured gasps. "It was midnight. We woke to a wind of noxious smoke," he recalls. "I could see thirty of us vomiting, stumbling, blistering and burning."

That night in 1985, the 20-year-old Iranian soldier became what his country calls a 'living martyr', one of the thousands of Iranian victims of Saddam Hussein's chemical weapons attacks during the Iran-Iraq war - the first casualties of sustained chemical bombing since World War I

When he regained consciousness, he was blind, unable to see the 3,000 other stretchers packed onto the field of Tehran's soccer stadium, a repository for the overflow of mustard gas victims from the front in southern Iran. Now 32, his trachea closing and lungs corroding, doctors say he may not live much longer.

Faraji is one of more than 60,000 Iranian soldiers and civilians exposed to Iraqi mustard and nerve gas from 1980-88


http://www.byui.edu/scroll/052102%20done/13.html

In addition, the Kurdish community claims over 180,000 lives including women and children have been taken by the Iraqis using nerve agents and mustard gas. Does he have biological weapons? Yes! Iraq has been producing anthrax botulinum and toxic ricin. They claim to have over 85,000 liters of anthrax.


http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/shows/saddam/


http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles/Scahill_Iraq.htm

March 24th, UPI reported from the United Nations: “Mustard gas laced with a nerve agent has been used on Iranian soldiers in the 43-month Persian Gulf War between Iran and Iraq, a team of U.N. experts has concluded...


http://www.polyconomics.com/searchbase/05-04-98.html

...one clever Russian technician discovered an Iraqi missile which he had been assured was inert, but which yielded a deposit of live mustard gas when he drilled a hole into it. My goodness, this was almost literally a smoking gun! "Nizar Hamdoon had lied to the American people when he said there are no WMD laying around and that we are simply making up one excuse after another to provoke the Iraqi people into doing away with their President." Gotcha! Mustard Gas!! Discovered by a Russian, no less!!!


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1562534.stm

Iraq under Saddam Hussein used chemical weapons against both Iran in the 1980-88 war and simultaneously against Iraqi Kurds in 1987-88.

And where was our sense of outrage then? Who gave him the technology? We did. Who funded his adventure into Iran to destabilise it after our very own Shah was overthrown by fundamentalists there.We did. We stood by silently when he gassed the Iranis as well as the Kurds, coz we didnt like the govt in Iran, and we fought a proxy war through him. We didnt seem to care then....
Anyone interested in Saddams WMD, should look up Scott Ritter.

Furthermore..I have had a bit much to drink, apologies to anyone who feels offended.

The thing to remember about any war with China is that no matter what we use in the way of nuclear weapons China can stand the losses... Mao Tz Tung former head of China once said that he "would welcome a nuclear war with the western powers." when asked why he replied, "The population of China now sits at 650 million by 2000 it will be over a billion and nuclear war would do nothing more than make it easier to feed my people." Now that isn't an exact quote but very close...

As for neclear fallout as long as you don't ground burst the weapon you won't have fall out... or I should say not as much... there is a real good book on the subject put out by Paladin Press called simply Nuclear War... It has a good deal of information about the effects of a blast, fallout, shelters and likely scenarieos (sorry about my spelling) :(

I would urge anyone even remotely inerested in what might happen to read about the histroy of the wars that have been fought in and around the area and why those who fought those wars either won or lost and how nuclear weapons will be used if they are at all...

No matter what happens and when, this war on terror is going to effect us all in one way or another before it is over... Whether it is my case where my wife is on active duty and will be in the combat zone or if you are like me and could be recalled to active duty... Before it is over it is going to have an impact on us all...

Just my $.02 worth...

4MidgetHitmen

I agree 4. We need to remember, too, that THEY are HERE. As for me, personally, besides my age, my ability to fight ended on February 3, 1968, during Tet. They don't want one and a half legged soldiers.

I'd completely spaced Paladin Press. I have several of their books and, I agree, anybody wanting to learn anything about combat, warfare, security, and on and on ought to look to them. I think I'll amble over to their website right now.

For those who may not have stumbled on these pages, here is some interesting reading:

Interview with Richard Butler, former chairman of the UNSCOM (weapons inspectors) (somewhat dated but relevant - Oct 2001);

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...ws/butler.html

Saddam - secrets of his life and leadership - an with interview with Said Aburish a journalist who once worked closely with the Iraq administration;

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...s/aburish.html

I found the content interesting reading.

Regards,

PP

I will have to try and find the URL but there is another site (I think it was the BBC) that had an interveiw with Sadam and also a couple of people that defected after Desert Storm that talked about his "Leadership"... tha jist of it was that most if not all of his closest advisers and bodyguards are family or from the village where he was born... And not unlike Hitler or Stalin those who say anything he finds offensive tend to dissapper... A very effective form of control... I have seen similar actions in Central America (El Salvador)... As a member of an MTT (Mobile Training Team) we would go in and help the locals with medical care, build wells and schools and plan and train for their own defense against the communist insergents... This worked well enough until the comunists started comming into the vilages after we left and killing and maiming men, women, and children... The message they left was a simple one... "Follow the Americans and we will surely kill you... Do not help the Americans and we will let you be..." thsi is the same message the Iraqi people are getting... "Go with the flow and you will be left alone... speak out and you and your family will die..." Hell of a way to keep people in line don't you think?

4MidgetHitmen

Hell of a way to keep people in line yes, but it's the way of all dictatorships. Was it Goebbels who said, "Tell a lie often enough and the people will believe it." Maybe not, but I'll bet he said it in private once or twice. Stalin ruled by fear, Hitler ruled through a combination of fear and the inbred obedience to authority of the German people, Saddam rules through fear and lies, the list is endless. Wherever you find a dictatorship, you'll find fear and lies.