Teen anarchist sues school principal

I am an avid fan of CourtTV, and this morning, they are covering a case that has a lot of good potential for the so-called limitations of free speech. Here is the story

Apparently, this student was suspended from school for trying to start an anarchy club:

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When 15-year-old Katie Sierra wore T-shirts bearing this version of the American pledge as well as other sayings that showed her opposition to the war in Afghanistan, teachers and students at her West Virginia High School were outraged.

Some students of Sissonville High School allegedly threatened to give Katie a taste of "West Virginia justice."

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Does this mean she is pushing "anti-government" views and therefore possible terrorist like views, or is she simply "mad" at the system? She claims her school (and town in general) is:

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says she heard that the West Virginia High School wasn't as liberal as other schools she was used to, and characterizes the students as bigots.

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And the schools argument is:

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The school's principal, Forrest Mann, suspended Katie for three days and forbid her to wear the controversial shirts, saying that her behavior was "disrupting school activity." Mann says his job is to guarantee students a safe school and good education — which became impossible in the volatile environment resulting from the controversy. Mann also denied Katie's request to start an anarchy club.

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Which is right? That is a tough question indeed especially after the 9/11 attacks and the general fear of anti-american views. I have no idea if this will be a landmark case, but it might reexamine the importance of free speech, and how this right distinguishes our country from many others.

On one hand, I think it's ridiculous. On the other, I firmly believe a school should have the right to set a dress code. In the case of the WV girl, this code appears to be arbitrary. Considering what kids wear to school these days, I don't consider it more than a form of protest.

The schools today have gone overboard, suspending kids for playing cops and robbers or war, things like that. This, without some type of written rules, seems to be another incident of over reaction. On the other hand, not that I'm waffling, if she was truly "disrupting" class, then she should have been sent home to change the shirt. I didn't see the Court TV case, so am basically talking out of my hat.

what i feel is that the girl is too young to understand the freedom of speech, she just knows that there is something like "freedom of speech", but the actual meaning and the actual power of "freedom of speech" is completely misunderstood.

i kind of know how that goes down, being one of the only "activists" in mah school and constantly getting in political battles with the class, and my teachers against me, which normally result in the other students shouting lude remarks back and forth. i believe it is in every right for her to act like she did, and she shouldnt be bothered by it. GO HER!

That's possible, too, harbir. Freedom of speech, freedom of all things, are important, but need to be learned and understood. When I went to school, around the time Cro-Magnon Man displaced the Neanderthal, it was understood that you were there to learn. There was a dress code, and codes of conduct in class. We weren't even allowed to wear jeans and the females had to be in dresses or skirts. On the other hand, that was a parochial school and nobody, parents included, argued with the Nuns. If you wanted your kid there, those were some of the rules. I think those restrictions helped me in later years.

I must say, the school board handled that very poorly. It seems like her school has plenty of blind patriots that didn't take the time to really understand her postion and views. Her views seem more patriotic and anti-american, because she cares enough about the country to want to change it, to make it better.

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Another showed a picture of an American flag turned up-side-down with an anarchy symbol drawn through it.

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Some of you might not be aware, but an inverted american flag is a military symbol of distress, thought I'm not sure if its still a known/used symbol today.

Hopefully she's learned a bit about voicing oppinons in public schools, because its a very touchy area that ive found myself in before.

The girl, in my opinion, has done nothing wrong. She got suspended for trying to start a club... that makes exactly no sense. School "clubs" need school "sponsors" which are usually just one teacher who will oversee the meetings and the like... at least that's how it is here. All the school people would have to do is say "no, I will not sponsor that" and it'd be over. There should have never been suspension of any kind, at ALL. This is ridiculous.

I was suspended the day after those Columbine School shooting things for wearing my trench coat. I got one day for my ignorance. I'd not watched the television at all the day before (I used to be very much into sports and it took my time) so I walked to school like every other day of that year in my normal dress: black leather trench coat, kikwears, T, and some Doc Martins. I walk into the lunch room, which is where you go before school if you get there a bit early (and I always did to get to hang with my friends for a bit before class), and immediately people begin to scream and yell, and one kid threw a freaking orange at me. Bastard.

So, anyways, to make a long rant short, this chick shouldn't have ever gotten in trouble and it shouldn't be going as far as court, nor should I've gotten in trouble. Just as Chuck56 said, this is an extreme case of over-reaction.

Jehnny, a question. We both agree that the schools, yours and the WV one were wrong. As apparently one of the younger generation, what would your feelings be on a written dress code be? There's discussion of adopting one in a city here in my State and it's causing an uproar. Just curious.

I think if you have a choice of where to go and one school has a dress code and another one doesn't, then it's fine to have a dress code. However, if there is no choice, or the dress coding of the kids doesn't significantly decrease the percentage of bad things happening or fix whatever's wrong, then there should not be one.

There are many different situations in which there should and should not, in my opinion, be dress codes.

In a situation where a school has had tons of problems with things such as gang fights and the such, a dress code would obviously help. It would prevent kids from coming to school wearing their "gang colors" or whatever and would knock down the violence at that school. Most schools in the United States do not have that problem, I am aware, but for the public schools here it is kinda bad.

In a situation where a person chooses to go to a private school, like I did this past year (thank God for the scholarship), then there should be no dispute whatsoever as to how you dress. If it's your choice to go there, then you have to abide by their rules or else leave. It's that simple.

In a situation where a school is perfect: no extreme violence, no extreme sex crimes, no extreme racism, etc., there should not be a specific dress code.

Now, let me detail, by saying a "dress code" should/shouldn't be required, I do not mean a girl can come to school wearing close to nothing or a boy can come with his pants below his knees. I mean a dress code such as wearing all white, every day, only. Or having to tuck in your shirt and have a collar (like at my school) and wear slacks with a tie and boots/dress shoes.

There ya go. :)

Thanks, Jehnny. It makes sense to me. I went to a Catholic school a llooonnnggg time ago and style of dress was very strictly enforced. The schools I mentioned are in Albuquerque and there are serious gang problems in that city. That's been mentioned repeatedly as the reason, and yes, in that case, not wearing gang colors to school does make sense.

In my school days, about the time the Mammoth disappeared, it was an entirely different world.

wow its kinda funny how we all are supposed to be tolerent of others belifes but look how the teachers try to take away peoples right to protest........but i can see she is alittle to young to be taken serious.....i think that if everyone thought before they acted the world whould be a better place......i hope you think the same way to...thx

Surely a true anarchist would not accept the law of a government and even use it?

Pity how the word anarchist is so misused...

Rant #0001.

Ennis: Hehe, yes, I see what ya mean. I was looking more at the teachers' faults in handling this and looked right over that funny one. :)

Chuck: Are you, by any chance, 48 years old relatively?

48 relatively?? Once upon a time, I was relatively in that range. No, I'm in my upper 50's now. The number after my name is my age *Sigh.* About the only thing I can brag on is that I don't look like an antique yet, thanks to daily exercise, and I question more and more why I put myself through that regimen every day.

i think everybody have got the right to say whatever he wants to say even if it is against the gov

I agree to a point Turbowest. Free speech is vital in a free society, within limits. Free speech doesn't give you the right to yell fire or bomb in a crowded theater or on a plane, to use some very cliched examples. It demands responsibility. As far as the West Virginia incident, speaking only from what I've read here, the school is overreacting to the point of ridiculousness. That part, which I think is what you're talking about, I absolutely agree with you on. How do you teach about freedom of speech and our other freedoms and rights if you don't allow them to be practiced?

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Originally posted here by Chuck56
I agree to a point Turbowest. Free speech is vital in a free society, within limits. Free speech doesn't give you the right to yell fire or bomb in a crowded theater or on a plane, to use some very cliched examples. It demands responsibility. As far as the West Virginia incident, speaking only from what I've read here, the school is overreacting to the point of ridiculousness. That part, which I think is what you're talking about, I absolutely agree with you on. How do you teach about freedom of speech and our other freedoms and rights if you don't allow them to be practiced?

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actually "true" free speech allows you to say whatever the hell you want. if there werent loopholes in the constitution of "america" itd be different and people wouldnt be arrested for saying things like bomb or fire in a plane etc... you can always teach the freedoms, but you dont always have to have them accepted in society, rather they are insinuated that they work, but the mindset of the people as a whole reflects the way people perceive freedoms etc.. which is where you have your loop holes. you can make laws, rather in private organizations like airlines and such that prohibit the use of such terms, because you pay to use there service. that is the loophole, doesnt have anything to do with the constitution, thats another reason capitalism in the U.S. isn't as good as we think it is.

Obvious restrictions are needed for the public good. The examples are perfectly logical and acceptable in all parts of the country. Shout fire or bomb and you have panic. People are injured because somebody is exercising his/her right to free speech.

We have freedom in our actions but that doesn't mean you can choose to shoot somebody without some resulting consequence. It's the same as shouting fire in a crowded building. Somebody gets hurt and you will bear the consequence. Free speech, as I said comes with the responsibility of using it correctly.

They don't make principals the way they used to.
Back in 1970, I was a senior in high school, and
a bunch of us hippies decided to protest the vietnam
war by bringing toy guns to school and having a
battle.

Afterward, Iwas walking down the hall with my water gun in
my hand, and along came the vice principal.
"Whatcha got there?" he asked. "A squirt gun", I showed him.
"Lemme see it", he said. I handed it to him.

He dropped it in his coat pocket and turned to walk away.
"But, my gun!" I whined. "Run along, you'll be late for class",
he said as he walked away.
:cool:

I was just talking to a friend about this whole thing, and was informed of a simiar kind of situation in my area. They had a christian prayer group at a local high school, which is all well and good as long as its student organized and all. My friend went to one of the administrators to organize a different kind of prayer group, a non-denominational, multi-belief group. She even wrote up all the required information and presented it to the Admin. He read through it untill he came to the word "non-christian" and then stopped, and refused the group outright, based on that word and HIS feelings about it. Kind of sad that an admin can abuse their power and control over the students, and all over a mis-interpretation of the word non-christian, which was used only to signify that it was not a christian organization, and not in any way implying that they were against the christian system, they just wanted a more diverse org.

Syini, tell your friend to contact the ACLU. As much as I hate that organization, sometimes they do help. I'm a Christian, but if I were in the position of that administrator, I would have to allow the non Christian group access to the property. If any religious group is permitted to hold a prayer meeting, ALL have to be allowed. His actions constitute discrimination.

what i dont understand is how ppl can openly post things on the walls at school that have bible verses on them.. i figured that would be illegal, yet they seem to always let it slip by.. but when its something that the principal doesnt agree with, it is taken down, for instance a satanic message of some sort, that would definitley be taken down in a second. im not condoning anything here, im completely neutral, i just think they should either let all or nothing be expressed in schools. hell i dont put stuff up either way, so it doesnt effect me ;). but the thing im getting at is, the kids that are religion A, put there stuff up and the kids that are religion B have to grow up with it, and maybe there religion doesnt call for affirmative action. but the administration is religion A so they completely condone it, or simply act like they havent seen it (ignore it). For instance our school is like 99.999999 % christian or catholic, the rest are quiet about there beliefs because of discrimination and other things that would contribute to the implied marginaliziation of thus stated persons belief, therefore they are forced to keep there mouths shut. my point is, the constitution does not work because of the many loopholes as i discussed earlier. like the separation of church and state, well that doesnt apply now does it that many states still have the "under god" in there pledges, they are still allowed to put up flyers that have scripture on them. you can call it free speech, you can call it free expression, you can call it freedom of the press, however, i call it boolshit.

I find it ironic that she wanted to start an "anarchy club" when driving force behind anarchy is the abolition of the social hierarchy that dictates control and order. But that's just me. ;)

Well, the school is certainly within it's rights to refuse to have any sort of club. That's not protected under free speech. The issue is thorny, to say the least. Wearing T-shirts with provocative material on them?

Is public nudity (or wearing 'see through' clothes, for example) free speech? I believe there are laws about it...

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Originally posted here by Terr
Well, the school is certainly within it's rights to refuse to have any sort of club. That's not protected under free speech. The issue is thorny, to say the least. Wearing T-shirts with provocative material on them?

Is public nudity (or wearing 'see through' clothes, for example) free speech? I believe there are laws about it...

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Terr - i believe that last one would be freedom of expression if anything ;P.

On a serious note however, ppl's behaviour began by being controlled. which is somewhat good because it keeps the proletariats in line, and the hiearchical structure in place. Yet whenever something like this happens, we as a collective, have to realize that we have a problem. this problem being, deciding what rights we have that are said that we have. now these rights can be interpreted however you want them to be, i just dont agree with the whole them enforcing based on popular opinion. the school should be able to make its own "rules" but rather not make its own "laws". that sounds similar although they are very different. Rules were made to be broken, Laws were made to break you. The act of this girl seems perfectly fine to me, although she did choose to wear it to school without consulting with the administation apparently, and that was a bad decision on her part.

All freedom comes with responsibility... Like Chuck56 said... It is a matter of common sense... Common sense says that if you yell , "This is a stick up!" with your hand in your pocket pointing like a gun in the bank you will get arrested for armed robbery... Did you actually have a gun? No... but the people in the bank didn't know that... were you free to say those words? Yes... but all speach has consicuences (please forgive my spelling)... As a man much wiser then I am once said, "The pen (word) is mightier than the sword."