Getting into the security industry

I'm currently unemployed and trying to get into the network/internet security industry. The stuff's always been a hobby of mine, and seeing as how I need to pay the bills, figured that I might as well make a buck doing the stuff.

I've been wanting to get into networking for a while. I started at a software co. doing tech support and QA testing where they said after 6 months I could move on to any position within the company. After 2 years of hearing this BS, I decided that I had better do something because no one was going to hand me the position.

So, I left my company, and have been studying now full-time to become an MCSA. I want to show potential employees that at least I took the initiative to learn the material, and that I'm interested in it, and that I have at least a baseline knowledge of the topic. Hopefully this will get me into the industry.

I figure that I need to start with the basics. I want a systems admin position. I figure that while doing this, I can learn how to focus and deal with the security aspects of the job, and then eventually specialize in the security aspect.

I'm basically looking for advice for getting into the industry. Any tips? Suggestions? Advice?

so you quit your job without having one to go to and you havn't taken any cert tests.

stop smoken your logo, get real and change this first.

Aaaahhh, no. Yes I did quit my job. Yes, I'm in the process of getting certs (3/4 of the way there). Yes I have enough money to afford to be able to do this. And what's wrong with the smoking?

Good job on working to get the certs... as to the smokin'... Besides being illegal and a possible way to blackmail you if you get into a securtiy position it kills brain cells and decreases your ability to make good decsions... It makes you lazy to the point you can not do your job correctly... Etc, etc,etc...

Many jobs require drug tests too. You'd feel like a real ass if you finally got the job, then got screwed on the drug test.

Dude, I have watched talent go to waste because of the herb. When I say this, I'm talking about a person who has/is gettingt he necessary education to get into a field (and excelling), but can't get a job because he can't stop smoking. There are alternatives ya know. And yes, while it may not immediately affect your judgement, long term use will eventually catch up to you. Well enough of that...I think you are doing a good thing getting that MCSA cert. That will give you a good baseline. Maybe you could take a course on Securing Windows 2000. I think that's one of classes M$ offers. Once you get a job as an admin, you can build from there. Hang out with the Security guys and show them that you are interested. Eventually, if you build a good enough relationship with them, they may let you work on projects and misc. tasks with them. When there is an opening, you will be a shoe-in. Also keep in mind, some companies hire people as Techs, but want them to do Admin work. Sometimes, you just have to bite the bullet and accept that you are doing admin work at a Tech salary and position, but remember that it all counts as experience on the resume. Build yourself up, and it will all work out. Oh, and last, but definitely not least, stay up with sites like this one. You will find great resources here, including career advice.

Thanks for all the advice. Just to let everyone know, I don't wake and bake and stuff like that. It's more recreation. Like if we're going out on the weekend, I'd rather smoke than drink (hangovers suck).

And as for the job thing, it does seem like everyone starts out doing admin work before moving into security directly. I guess everyone has to start somewhere, and it doesn't seem like someone is going to hand over a security job without seeing some experience performing admin work.

Does anyone know if security positions are within a group by itself, or are different security jobs like a side responsibility of most system admins? It seems like industries still haven't woken up and realized the importance of security. I guess there haven't been that many hacks into their systems to realize the importance of it. Why does it seem like companies wait till they have a problem, and then try to put a bandage on it as opposed to using some precaution to prevent most of these events from happening. Is it a lack of knowledge or funding or what?

For a non-tech person, it might be hard to see the direct benefits from security. Now if they get hacked, then of course their eyes will be opened, but if they haven't been exposed to that then they might not see a need for it. This is of course just ignorance on their part, but unless properly educated, these people might have a false sense of security and will be reluctant to spend on money on things like security.

I've got nothing big against social pot-smoking, but even once in a while on the weekends can screw you big time. Pot stays in your system for a while, and you might not be able to "get clean" in time for a drug test for a possible job. If I were you I'd quit. At least until you've landed a new stable job. Companies rarely drug test after the initial one.

Good luck though!

how many core exams have you taken so far. which elective/s have you selected.

nothing wrong with smoking dude as long as its not to excess, but your question screams your in dream land.

you think your going to waltz into a job as sys admin after being on the help desk. Lets say, just for arguments sake, thats possible. Their going to ask you why you left your last job. You tell them what you've said here. Without having another job to go too, what they are going to hear in this is, your probly immature and quit when you don't get your way. wether this is true or not. work as a temp while your studying.

make sure you have a stong knowledge and basic understanding of operating systems, network hardware, and programming. without knowing these you are not giving yourself a strong foundation for being a good network administrator. if you know this stuff-stop smoking and try getting a job with the cia or nsa-i hear they are hiring these days.

Dude, there's a difference between quitting when you don't get your way, and quitting when a work situation becomes unbearable. For your information, in our group of 20, 9 people quit within a month of me. So as you can see, I'm not "immature" and a brat that quits the first second the going gets tough.

I left mostly because the of the lack of opportunities of advancing within the company, and a lack of training. The company cut training. I was fine with that. I said that I would actually pay for my own training, and they gave me the run-around again. How can you expect me to stay at a company that lies to me every given opportunity. I don't mind working hard, I have my whole life, but the second people start lying to me about every little thing, to hell with them. And that's why I left.

And what's wrong with quitting without having something else in hand. This point you keep bringing up is not the point of my post. If I can afford to why shouldn't I? It's not like I'm the first person to ever do this.

Anyway, I'm only going to be around here for another 2 years before I move, so I wanted to get some good experience under my belt. You know, it's like this one recruiter told me, they want people who have 2-3 years of experience, not 1 year of experience repeated for 3 years. That's the main reason I left. If I'm not learning, not being recognized for the job I'm doing, and being taken for granted, why would I want to stay at the same company? And it wasn't an overnight decision. I thought it over for a couple of months. I'm not looking for people to judge me for the decisions that I've made, I'm just asking a question, and trying to get some honest answers from people that seem to know what's going on.

woooah dude! i said thats the way its "going to be seen", i agree with you that varied experiance is the best. thats why i suggested working as a temp while your studying. giving the reasons that you state will be more believable, (not that their not true but they must be believed), and admirable if your working while your studying.

just quiting your job because your not being appreciated for your full potential does not show allot of smarts in todays job market. the key word here is "show".

so i gather you havn't taken any tests yet. don't try studying for all four of them at once. go take them. study for one then take it, study for the next...

what if you find your study methods are wrong after taking the first test. the tests themselves might not be that tough, but the stress can wipe you out. And stop putting it off, the exam will change if you wait until you think your ready for all of them, then you'll have to start all over again.

Yeah, thanks for the advice. I didn't mean to come across as I did in my previous post. Just venting. Anyways, I've already passed some of the exams. I'm done with the A+ cert, the Network+ cert (which combined can be used as the elective for the MCSA), and the Microsoft 210 exam (implementing w2k pro). All I have left is 215, which is implementing win2k server, and 218 I believe, which is managing a win2k network environment.

And to show that I've been doing stuff, I went and formed a company last year (about 10 months prior to quitting). At first I did it to keep up with my web development skills. But now, I'm showing how I set up a network at home, and have been maintaining it. Granted I'm not using the commercial sized software like most companies, but I've set up a router, got the hardware and software firewalls running. I've kept all the patches up to date, kept the anti-virus definitions up to date, etc.

I'm hoping that this initiative in setting up this company (as in I went and formally started it, applied for a license, business name and all) will show my interest and knowledge. Whaddya think?

Many companies in my State, from what I've seen in the want ads, require an initial drug test and then do random tests after hire, so you never know when your number will come up. Security means security, from all angles, not just computer skills.

Los Alamos and Sandia Labs, here in NM, have running ads for computer savvy people in all areas. Those jobs, though, require a "Q" clearance meaning a 12 to 16 week wait from what I last heard. The background checks are a lot tougher than in the past. Big bucks and big benefits though.

Well, I have to say that it definitely shows initiative. I've always wanted to start my own business, but I am interested in so many other things that I hardly have time to pursue "dreams." Also, it doesn't help that I lack the business skills! I just have the idea right now. Go for what you know man. Just stay focused in what you want to do, but make sure that you keep your goals in mind every step of the way. Pray, meditate, whatever you have to do...you don't want to miss your opportunity.


Take care and God Bless.
Good luck.

If you want to get in on the "ground floor," don't focus solely on Microsoft certification. A+ and Network+ certifications demonstrate to a prospective employer that you have demonstrated an understanding of the fundamentals and principles of computers and networking.

Best bet is to start out as a temp/contractor. The variety of positions will serve you better in the long run.

Thanks everyone. Yeah, I'm hearing the temp thing. I'm actually on my way out the door to the temp agency over here. We'll see how that turns out. Until then, I'll be studying, taking exams, looking for a job, and just messing around with my home network.

As for the certifications, everything that I've learned and studied, I'm trying to apply to my home network. I want to show that I have some hands-on experience to back up the certs, and at the same time have some formal education/training to back up the hands-on experience.

I think you would be ok with leaving your last job if you can justify why you did it to the satisfaction of your interviews. Also if you show you've been productive during your time away from work it may show as a positive thing rather than a negative. A bit like taking a gap year I suppose. Having your own business can also impress a prospective employer again as long as you can justify why you no longer want to be self employed.
I don't think many people are able to start working in infosec straight away I think most learn their trade as techs and sysadmins. I work in Infosec but I'm not nearly as much on the techinical side as many here. I work mostly on policy, procedure and auditing to make sure the tech are working as securely as they tell me they are. I work within legistalive frameworks so you may also need to remember that you will need to learn some of the legal aspecs of infosec.

As for the weed... if you are going to get tested stop early. Cannabis residue is one of hardest to get out of your system and can be found in your hair up to six months after your last smoke. It also hangs about in your blood for over a month.
In addition if you have any family predisposition to mental disorders such as schizophrenia and depression in greatly increases the likelyhood of these developing.

Alchohol is more dangerous but it's socially acceptable to be drunk but not stoned.

maybe a reply 3 year's ago would have been better n00bs