The Unletting mystery of Gravity? -

The Big Bang should be thought of as not a single action, but a series of events. If you were to look at the solar system, as it is today, you would see all of our 9 planets going around and around in perfect orbit.

You would also see the bright and powerfull sun at the center of it all, pulling these planets with its powerfull force of gravity around and around. Looking at the sun we see a bunch of powerfull explosions. Now, in order to understand anything that is said from here out, you will have to know how the sun generates such atomic reactions. It is said that at the center of the Sun, the mass is so dence that even a tea spoon full of that mass would weigh megatons. This mass was pulled there by the suns massive gravitational pull.We can relate this to earth, by multiplying the pressure at the bottom of the ocean floor by infinity. The suns life giving power is generated by the gravitational pull. It pulls the suns mass to the center of gravity with such a force, that the atoms split upon impact. Creating an awesome explosion. Much like the atomic, or nucular bombs. THis happens over and over, creating the sun as we know it.

Now, if we were to look at the solar system through a camera that has been there for EONS, and played it in fast foward we would see our sun, slowly dwindle out into darkness. At that point we would see the Sun begin to collaps on itself, creating a black hole. When this happens, every thing as we know it is pulled by this gravitational pull, that not even light can escape. Then when the mass is so dence it cannot pull anything else into it, it explodes. This is what scientists call a super nova, but the Pull is still there. And the blackhole pulls again. Pulling with such a force, that when the atoms collide, they split,and explode, creating a New Sun.

However some of the mass that was pulled into the blackhole escape the gravitational pull,by the force of the explosion pushing it far from the reach of the gravitational pull. This matter is usually the pretty colors you see in pictures. Usuallly gases and some solids. After a while they begin to form planets and moons. Put back into orbit by the New Suns same gravitational pull, that was always there. Even when the sun is no more, and nothing but a black hole, the Gravitational pull is even Stronger than it was before. Is this the "univers" acting again? With this never ending pull? How can this NEVER ENDING pull be scientificly explained?

Black holes actually radiate energy from certain areas just outside the event horizon, as particles and antiparticles are brought into existence. (Most annhilate each other, but some escape). If you 'starve' a black hole of matter, it will shrink in mass, lessening it's gravitational pull, and the event horizon will recede. The size of the singularity, of course, remains infintesimal.

Gravitational pull is 'never ending' for lots of things. A baseball has a never-ending pull, both in terms of distance and in terms of time. (The strength of the 'pull' varies however)

I'm not quite sure what you mean by the universe acting again,as action hasn't stopped since the start of the big bang,but if you mean is the universe keeping the overall gravitational pull in check so as to stop it from constantly expanding,NO.Everything in the universe is moving away from everything else at an accelerated rate.(ie.the farther something is away from you in the universe the faster it is moving away from you.)Therefore leading most physicists to believe that eventually the entire universe will become cold and lifeless,but a few think that the inertia of the celestial objects will become less then the pull of gravity,which will reverse the universes expantion and cause it to contract.(then the question arises as to whether everything is going to go crashing into everything else,or the reverse of the big bang)For more information on this topic do a search for "redshifts" and "blueshifts"

Heh heh, you two guys, not you Terr, have confused me. . .I was taught that the reason the universe is expanding is b/c of some, as of yet unfound source, dubbed dark matter. If everything were dependant strictly on gravity then the universe would be collapsing in on itself. . .there is some source of energy that is pushing everything outward.
Toker you are correct in that gravity causes little atomic explosions, but that is from hydrogen. . .and the energy from the hydrogen explosions is what keeps the sun from condensing in on itself, but our sun would never become a black hole. . .it's much too small to become a black hole. . .after our sun burns it's source of hydrogen down, it will most likely shed a great deal of matter and become a red dawrf. If the sun where about 20 times larger than it is it would have the potential to become a black hole. As far as a black hole eventually exploding and creating a new sun, I've never read or heard that anywhere, like Terr says, it will eventually dissapear, I believe most people would term it as evaporation of the black hole.

I hope this can clear things up for you,as I'm neither a physicist nor a cosmologist,and find it a little difficult to explain myself.A great site.Make sure you check out the discussion of Penrose and Hawkings.The worlds foremost authorities on the subject.

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/11087/65115

I have read the page and I understand the concept, thanks for the link btw (short read, but it should help someone conceptualize the arguement), but you haven't answered what I wanted answered. Gravity is a constant pull on one object to another based upon mass. Gravity pulls an object towards another, like electrons to positrons. Two objects with any relative mass and in the same area will eventually collide, they tug on each other until they meet. . .gravity does not explain the expansion of the universe. . .no one has explained the expansion of the universe. . .Hubble has tried to show that the universe is expanding by using the Dopler shift to red, but that has nothing to do with the principles of gravity, that idea deals strictly with the principles of light, maily 'tired light', which tend toward the slower end of the spectrum when viewed from afar.

OK.I found a better page,a little more reading,but it seems to basically say that physicists don't have the slighest clue.Of course a physicists way of saying he!! I don't know is dazzeling you with every theory and mathmatical formula in the book and saying it's a paradox in between the lines.Here read for yourself.I'll try to find something by a more reputable source,and at least get a decent theory.
http://www.voidalliance.org/universe.htm

I'm not arguing with you, and thanks for another good link, but the ink you posted proves me right. . . "When we evoke the idea of the expanding Universe, we often associate it with the theory of general relativity, namely the relativistic theory of gravitation formulated by Albert Einstein in 1915. But, as we have just seen, the expansion process was discovered quite independently of the theory of relativity" The expanding universe has nothing to do with gravity. . .there is another, as yet unseen force acting on the universe. I don't deny that it may be expanding, but it has nothing to do with gravity. . .what we're searching for is the essence of 'dark matter'. What is pushing the galaxies farther apart??

I don't disagree with the fact that the expansion of the universe has something to do with dark matter,but "dark matter" isn't necessarily one form of matter.It could be a number of forms of matter that yet remain undiscovered.I'm also doing some searches for a theory on the quantum level,because I feel a better answer may lie there.I don't remember which one of the pages it was,but one of them referred to quantum fluctuations as part of the reason why the universe is expanding.

Oh definately, I agree, dark matter will most probably be found on the quantum scale, some type of enegry or matter which hasn't been discovered and will be given another silly name like 'quark', heh heh, glad to see we found a common ground. . .post more links as you find them though. . .I for one would like to read more. . . .

Well, some of this is to do with Einsteins general theory of relativity, especially the concept of the 'cosmological constant'. Einstein originally included it in his equations, but later removed it because he didn't like the way it could affect his equations. It has been coming back into favour recently, and you get very different results depending on what value you assign it.

There is a good summary at http://pancake.uchicago.edu/~carroll/encyc/ ,which is not too mathematical!

Finally think I found the answer.Actually pretty interesting also considering the theory of spontaneous generation of matter was dissmissed a century or two ago when scientists discovered that maggots were actually fly larvae,they don't just appear inside decaying carcases.Anyway here's the paragraph,but I'd recommend reading the whole thing.


One thing we know for certain, though, is that quintessence is a fundamentally fickle force. Early in the universe's history, quintessence was all-powerful, frantically driving inflation in the first moments after the Big Bang. For ages afterward, it lay quietly in space, struggling half-heartedly against gravity and allowing the universe to slowly expand. Today, however, quintessence seems to have returned to full-force, slapping gravity out of the way as it accelerates the universal expansion. As long as the density of quintessence remains constant - as long as the weight of nothing does not change - our universe will continue to expand, faster and faster, forever. Within 100 billion years, we would be able to see only a few other galaxies, perched on the rim of the observable universe. If, though, for any reason, quintessence changes again, this time to a negative value, the dark energy will yield to gravity and the universe will collapse.

Here's the link.

http://www.jyi.org/issues/currentIss...ures/cull.html

[quote above article here]

to find out if the universe is going to collapse in on itself, or expand out to temperatures of absolute zero or infinity, you have to know the exact amount of mass-energy in the universe. because the amount of matter in Einsteins equations determines the amount of space-time curvature, we must find out the average matter density of the universe in order to find out if there is enough matter and energy for gravitation to reverse the effects of the big bang: the big crunch. if the average density is less than 10^29 grams per cubic centimeter, then the universe will continue to expand forever. however, if the average significantly larger than this then there will be enough matter for the gravitational force of the universe to reverse the big bang.
at the moment, the big question mark is that:
there are different ways of getting the mass of the universe. you could go sun by sun through a galaxy and then getting averages for their masses and then getting an average over amny galaxys. and another is to measure how much time it takes the stars to move around the galaxy and then you can use Newtone equations to get the approx. mass of the galaxy. basically though, the figures obtained from these calculations are below the critical amount, but they all vary in their result.
the most likely reason?:
astromomers know that up to 90% of the mass of a galaxy is in the form of "missing mass" or "dark matter" ... because it is not luminos, but it has weight. (dust clouds, black holes, cold dwarf stars, asteroids, planets etcetra...)

but even with more approximations in place in the calculations to compensate for the "dark matter" the estimated mass of the galaxy is considerabely smaller than that predicted by Newtons equations.

the reason for this? tiny leprechauns scourging gold, of course.

so it looks like the universe is going to die an entrophic death, that is, it will expand limitlessy (increasing entrophy) until the temperature reaches almost absolute zero. to understand how entrophy death occurs you have to understand the three laws of thermodynamics, which govern all chemical and nuclear processes on earth and in (litterly) the stars.
British scientist and author C.P. Snow had an elegant way of remembering the three laws:

Quote:

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1.you cannot win (that is, you cannot get something for nothing, because matter and energy are conserved)

2.you cannot break even (you cannot return to the same energy state, because there is always an increase in disorder <the universe _IS__EXPANDING_>; entrophy always increases <unless gravity wins>

3.you cannot get out of the game (because absolute zero is unatainable)

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</rant>
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Quote:

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Originally posted here by gghornet
I'm not quite sure what you mean by the universe acting again,

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This is what I was referring to....
http://www.antionline.com/showthread...hreadid=223054
Anyways, I dont have a lot of time to reply to all this right now, but I will get more time to elaborate. Maybe the link will help to understand my question about the constant pull of gravity.