Here's a question to ponder on: What do you think people would have thought of Hitler if he didn't do the Holocaust but just tried to take over the world, or what would you have thought about him if he didn't commit the Holocaust?
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Here's a question to ponder on: What do you think people would have thought of Hitler if he didn't do the Holocaust but just tried to take over the world, or what would you have thought about him if he didn't commit the Holocaust?
he was a genius, regardless of what he did, he WAS a genious... he was a twisted man too... but a genious
Sarin, I don't entirely agree with you. For me, a genious is someone who posesses a large amount of knowledge and puts it to good use. Killing ten thousand Jews in a period of less than fifteen years isn't puting knowledge too good use in my perspective.
Regards,
Silentstalker
Has nothing to do with putting large amounts of knowledge to good use, brotha. :)
Word: (genius) Result: (LI> A strong natural talent, aptitude, or inclination
I sincerely hope you do not mean 10,000....as well as the 15 years. Otherwise I will have to come and spank your history teacher :D . Seriously.Quote:
Originally posted here by silentstalker
Sarin, I don't entirely agree with you. For me, a genious is someone who posesses a large amount of knowledge and puts it to good use. Killing ten thousand Jews in a period of less than fifteen years isn't puting knowledge too good use in my perspective.
Ok I'm not so good with history and stuph but I know he killed a lot over a good period of time, and that's not a good thing now is it? Basically I got my point across ;) , nobody's perfect, and that goes for history teachers as well :p
Silentstalker
[email protected]
Apparently Hitler was an exceptional public speaker. Ive read that he could flip ones opinions and beliefs 180 degrees with his speaches.
Imagine what he could have achieved if he wasnt such a ruthless murderous bastard.
What I'm most curious about is if Hitler could command the same audience today that he could back then. Imagine if Hitler had to be the Fuehrer of Germany on television these day. The media would have been much more involved with this man long before his rise to power. I don't think he would have waltzed his NSDAP cronies into a position of majority as easily as he did, but I could be wrong. The fact is that it was a different time. Who's to say what would happen.
As for the statement that Hitler was a genius, I would argue that. And not just from the moral standpoint of the man being insane. He had several opportunities to effect some serious blows against the allies long before the US was ever a part of anything. Dunkirk? What was that about? He could have done significantly more damage there than was done. The Russian Front? He betrayed Stalin much to soon, and it forced him to fight a 2 front war. I will offer willingly that Hitler's generals were indeed geniuses, but he did a rotten job of deploying them. Why would he pull Rommel out of North Africa prematurely? It cost him the continent. There are more than this, but I don't need to go into them.
Definately a good public speaker.That's how he got Germany to follow him was through tons of very convincing propaganda,the storm troopers also did a little to sway the public's opinion too.I agree that he was an exceptionally intelligent person,but also deceiving and grotesque.I don't however believe too many people would have liked him trying to take over the world reguardless of whether or not the Holocaust happened.As a matter of fact most countries had no idea he was killing huge numbers of Jews when they went to war with Germany.
I don't think my opinion of him would be swayed to much if the Holocaust didn't happen,because the fact still would remain that ungodly large amounts of people died in WWII just because he was power hungry.That's not my idea of a model person.
Hi,
I think Hitler was basically a tool of Satan, and if not demon possessed, at least demonically inspired. I know that some of the Nazis (at least Goebbels I think and Himmler, also I think), were into the occult, and if you consider their ideas and the outcome of their lives, it really shows. I do believe in demons. And I do believe that they can give people extraordinary powers and abilities. Hitler put the "evil" in "evil genius," and it's extremely probably he was the recipient of demonic empowerment. Hitler killed over 6,000,000 Jews, and was responsible for many more deaths. I think Satan works through people like Hitler, and Satan would like nothing better than to have a one world government through which he can control all religion. Satan hates the Jews because God brought His chosen Savior (His Son Jesus Christ) into the world through the Jewish people. I think Satan was working through Hitler to eliminate the Jews. And yes, Hitler was a spell binding orator. Satan is able to empower people like that. Deceit is a main tool of the devil, and it works because often people are looking for someone to follow. Many people will follow anyone who tells them what they want to hear. I believe that an AntiChrist is coming who will again try (and succeed) in uniting the world under a single political, economic, and religious government. He will have the same power as Hitler and probably much more. He will come at a time when people are looking for someone to follow, and he will say all the right things at the right time. But he will turn out to be a deceiver and evil incarnate. He will persecute Christians, Jews, and Muslims, and anyone else who won't follow him. Believe me (actually believe the Bible, God's Word), you don't want to be here when the AntiChrist shows up.
He sure had a funky moustache, that's for sure. But i'll stay outa this one, 'cause what he orchestrated against the rest of the world and his own nation, using the confusion of monstrous unemployment and astronomical monetary inflation and selling the bigoted idea of a scapegoat for their troubles was inexcuseable. Besides, whenever i get to using bad language then i have to repent all over again, and i'm not sure which sin might be the last straw that breaks the camel's back...............
Actually it was 6 million Jews.....
He was a madman and his henchmen were nothing more
than bloody murderers....
Ask the families of the American Service Men and Women
killed to get rid of him....
Lets not forget what Tojo did to Japan on his
war of conquest....
My Mother took years before she would use a product made in Japan
and she still is somewhat reluctant to admit it....
I personally do not hold a grude against Germany or Japan today.
To me it was history and I am a Baby Boomer..
Quote:
Originally posted here by preacherman481
Hi,
I think Satan works through people like Hitler, and Satan would like nothing better than to have a one world government through which he can control all religion. Satan hates the Jews because God brought His chosen Savior (His Son Jesus Christ) into the world through the Jewish people.
Religon.....bah! Hitler used Religon to prove that what he was doing was God's will just as you you use religion (and crazy talk of demons :rofl: ) to say he was doing Satans work...
Quote:
"
... I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews, I am doing the Lord's work." - Hitler
Religion has a lot to answer for....
Anyone interested in reading a few clever quotes on religion just follow this link....
Well when it came to military genius he was seriously lacking. Once I saw a list called 10 military blunders that lead to an allied victory. I think number 1 was don’t go into Russia in the winter. Another one was Hitler’s instance on bombing British cities instead of air fields which helped the allies gain air superiority.
It's funny how everyone thinks god is on there side even though your not suppose to kill in his name.
thats an absurd question, his whole concept of an ayran master race is obscene. The Aryans originated from an area of northern india and migrated to the area around germany. to claim any degree of racial purity they would have to have been cloistered. Not too likely. His plan from the beginning was to 'liberate' gremany from the jewish influence and purify the country. He never intended to accomplish this with cotton swabs and alcohol.
Talking Hitler without the holocost is like talking an a-bomb without radiation.
Hitler Did have an extrodinarily high Iq (150's). and he was an extemely manipulative man.(I can believe this as I have heard a few of record speaches and they are very mesomorizing). but would we view him Differently? of course we would! his watermark on the world was the Jewish holocaust(not to mention the pow's, homosexuals, blacks, muslims, political prisoners who died as well). It would have been no different than world war I, being that The ottoman Empire was defeated as were the germans in wwII. he would have been no different than any other defeated General in anyother war.
I've read that anywhere from 35 to 40 million people died in WW2, NOT including those in the camps. The exact number will probably never be known. Whatever good he did for Germany, and he did do some, is far overshadowed by the bad.
Has anybody ever considered too that Stalin, during his years as ruler of Russia, killed more of his own people than the Germans? Presumably he's responsible for nearly 30 million deaths. If true, between he and Hitler, almost 25% of Russia died.
Hitler was a genius, yet a flamin fascist. what he had in mind was the wrong interpretation of nietzsche's ubermensch or roughly translated "superman" overman in german. he would have his troups carry copies of Nietzsche's "Thus Spoke Zarathustra" which was how nietzsche literally protrayed the overman. now hitler being the intelligent moron he was, decided that it was possible for him to accomplish to what he considered great tasks. he wanted to so called rid the world of evil and non-deservants of oxygen roughly. i think its stretching it a bit to throw in the religious stuff, simply because someone is insane does not make them a "tool of satan" which is about as farfetched as possible anyway. he killed yes, but so do your friendly local politicans, they just have there bitches in the military do it for them whenever they want some natural resource that they cant get there greedy hands on without killing ppl. hitler at least had an ulterior motive. i however am extremely anti-violence and very anti-hitler, but calling him such things as tools of satan is what i like to call "stupid". pyscology explains insanity. thomas szasz was a physician who believe there was no such thing as mental illness until he was proven wrong by the further scientific study. which tests have been done to prove hitlers insanity. stalin may have been insane as well, but so was nietzche, eintein, locke, foucault, heidegger, descartes, deluze , guiatarri, spanos, chomsky, sagan... kinda makes you wonder whom is considered insane. the genius's of our tiems, of our world. which proves that insanity can create good or bad. in hitlers case, insanity of course resulted in bad. sadly ppl had to lose there lives for no reason or purpose, which is why i despise of him. he had so much potential, was just led the wrong way and turned bad. now the aryan beliefs he had were popular ones indeed. one nero, had them as well. aryan = bad, genius = median, philosophy = median, religion = helpful, hitler = all of the above. his just went the wrong way.
In theaters in Europe, there is currently a film running called "Tod im Spiegel" (Death in the mirror). It is about Hitler's last secretary. She is just talking for about 90 minutes and tells about her time with Hitler until his suicide. One thing I remember of this film was that I had the impression that Hitler was truly possessed by his ideas of an aryan society. He really thought he was doing it for good.
My tip: go and watch that movie. It is very impressive.
Unfortunately, I do not know if this film can ever be seen in the States.
[glowpurple] I believe that an AntiChrist is coming who will again try (and succeed) in uniting the world under a single political, economic, and religious government. He will have the same power as Hitler and probably much more. He will come at a time when people are looking for someone to follow, and he will say all the right things at the right time. But he will turn out to be a deceiver and evil incarnate. He will persecute Christians, Jews, and Muslims, and anyone else who won't follow him. Believe me (actually believe the Bible, God's Word), you don't want to be here when the AntiChrist shows up.[/glowpurple]
-- so, what about that debate on Iraq...
Setting the holocust aside. The fact that Hitler was a great military strategist or a good public speaker is not in dispute But despite all this he was a meglomaniac and a sociopath. I seriously doubt that anyone young or old would want to be so severly controlled in a society that had virtually no room for ethnic or religous differences let alone a difference of opinion.It was his way or the highway i.e.(death). Auntie
Between 1933 (when Hitler came to power) and 1945 (His Death) he was responsible for killing 6 million out of the 11 million strong Jewish community. This isnt taking into consideration the Gypsys, POW's and Homosexual's (they put them in concentration camps and killed them too). Now the guy who was responsible for the 1993 Holocaust in Somalia (I cant recall his name right now?) killed 3 Million Somali's in SIX WEEKS!
The point I guess I'm trying to make is that Genocide still occurs Today. I just think it's kind of strange that 3 million people died in six weeks and the worlds attention didn't really focus on it (maybe because they were Black?), But when the people dying are Wealthy White folk Then GOD DAMN its a Big Drama... Just a Point to Ponder on...
well .... genius but i think that he had a prospective that world couldnt understand ... we better search for any german AO member ... he might knows what the hell Hitler was amming to
Eastwood ... u made a good and clear point there ... well, i'd like to tell that this will happen in all the Meddleeast not only for somalia but if something happened to our brothers in states or europe ... then , they would conseder the 3rd war is starting
Quote:
Originally posted here by Conf1rm3d_K1ll
Religon.....bah! Hitler used Religon to prove that what he was doing was God's will just as you you use religion (and crazy talk of demons :rofl: ) to say he was doing Satans work...
Religion has a lot to answer for....
So sure that demons dont exist are you? So Arrogant that MAN is the SUPREME being, that MAN is God. And, the thought of a "spiritual battle" for our souls is obsurd to you. This is a great weapon of Satan. The Lie. Deciept has been his trick since the "Original Sin".
Crazy talk of demons? You say that because, you cant see it, you say that be cause you dont belive in anything that isnt tangable...right? Because otherwise you would relise the obviousness of the truth. Have you ever had a thought? A thought so disturbing you felt sickened by yourself? I have, I think we all have. But do you think it was your own mind that spawned this thought? Sometimes I can feel them whispering in my ear, with every black little thought. I guess its because I am a beliver that it is so easy for me to see the Enemy work. Unfortunatly millions have been caught up by his deception, and dont even belive he exists.
But in hitlers case, he was being "whispered" that God wanted Racial Purity, That the jews killed Jesus, ect... And the only way to riegn supreme was by Killing off all the jews. When people get God confused with who HE is and who they think He is, they use GOD as there fix-all. People have been using the "Holy War" thing for centuries, to excuse there own horrific actions. IE: Catholics during the Crusades, Islamic Extremists Present day.
The bottom line is that Satan seeks about like a roaring lion, seeking to whom he may devoure. An angel waging a war on the Almighty, taking the souls of Gods creations by exploiting their God-Given gift of choice. We are being exploited, by somthing we cant even see. Download the patch here---> http://www.powertochange.com
Hitler was in no way a great military strategist. He had the best generals with the greatest military minds of the early 20th century around him. His problem was he stopped listening to them around the end of 1942 and tried to run the entire war himself. It was a recipe for disaster. Hitler was no genius. He was a man in the right place, at the right time, with the right people around him to make him look like a demi-god.
He was a racist shmuck.
-Xe
Goerbels made him a great speaker.
von Rhunsdeth, Mellenthin, Guderian, Rommel made him a great military strategist.
Hitler was the only person to prove that he is a dumbass.
*excuse the spelling of the German officials names!!!
-Xe
As far as demons go.I'd have to go with the eastern philosophy and say that yes demons do exist,but they are within yourself,and you create them through the paths you choose for yourself.I don't believe that there's a bunch of little angry red guys with pitch forks and pointy tails running around somewhere beneath me.
To comment on the Somolia subject.I think it is a point well made,and I believe the reason for that is...(oh no rant coming on)
The world doesn't concern itself with the problems of third world countries unless they gain something from it.As much as I love this country,I know the US doesn't throw food around out of pure kindness,we throw food around to solidify international relations.We don't send troops into wars that we have no real place in,purely out of concern for that country's well being,we do it to prevent any danger to ourselves and to flex our muscles to the world.As the saying goes,NOTHING's free.If someone doesn't benefit from it,whether through money,power,fame,respect,or reverence,it doesn't happen.
So what I would conclude from that is the genocide in Somolia didn't hurt the economy's of any "world powers",or pose any direct threat to them,so why should they get off their thrones to help those people.It's a sad thing,but that's the way the world works.
Hitler was a great politician in the way he orchestrated his plans and mingled with country leaders. Fantastic liar, as all politicians need to be. That's it. He was an ok speaker, but he always had someone else (can't recall his name) go on before him to stir up the crowd. So by the time Hitler came on to to give his speech, they were already riled up.
Lets not blame Satan for other people's mistakes :D
Take care
::Chelle::
Personally, I think Hitler is a genious, if he didn't focus all his time on the Holocaust, most likely today, the world would be a dictatorship run under one of Hitler's successors.
At the end (the war, his life) he wasn't running things. He had parkinsons, drooled on himself, had trouble walking, and bad body oder. The guards at his "bunker" cheered when they heard a rumor that he was dead. Martin Borman was in charge. He didn't die by cyanide or gunshot. His own murdered him so they could escape before it was too late. Look at the forensic evidence yourself. He may have been an effective leader, but not at the end of the war.
I seriously doubt that Spinnaker.even without the Holocaust,he didn't know how ration his resources.He thought he could spread his army throught the world and take on everyone at once.No country ever has or probably ever will have a strong enough military to take on the whole rest of the world at one time.Besides that he didn't even start to send troops overseas,short of some air attacks on Britain.War's a whole different story when you have to move tons of troops and equipment over an ocean.I doubt they would have gotten past the coastal cities if they tried to invade the US.That's assuming they even got enough transports through the US navy to invade.
Quote:
Originally posted here by Dr Toker
Crazy talk of demons? You say that because, you cant see it, you say that be cause you dont belive in anything that isnt tangable...right?
Silly little boy. I assume you also believe in fairies living at the bottom of your garden. That's the logic of your argument....
Here's a couple of my favourite religous quotes-
Just a few of my favourites.Quote:
The world holds two classes of men - intelligent men without religion, and religious men without intelligence." - Abu'l-Ala-Al-Ma'arri (973-1057)
Syrian poet.
“The Christian resolve to find the world evil and ugly, has made the world evil and ugly.” - Friedrich Nietzsche
"All thinking men are atheists." - Ernest Hemingway
I notice your from Houston, Texas. Home of the Evangelist and death penalty capital of the USA....go figure. ;)
LOL, love the quotes.
-Jots them down-
Though, lets not be too mean.
I don't believe in Satan, but I believe in faries :c)
Hehehe, take care
::Chelle::
Never forget that Hitler didn't just come to power through happenstance. He was having his strings pulled as much as he was pulling the strings of others. I would say the forces behind him are not all dead and gone. I think like newbie said he really DID believe his own lies.
Just some food for thought.
Just think if Hitler had died in say 1937 he would still be hailed as one of the greatest leaders in the world... He was Time magizines man of the year in 1935 or 1936... He took a nation that was totally destitute and in the period of four years made it a super power... Don't get me wrong Hitler was a nasty, evil man but he could motivate the hell out of his audiance...
wow, another religiously motivated debate... my life is too good...
thanks for the link to the quotes, Conf1rm3d_K1ll, I love thes things... athiest quotes are my bread and butter when it comes to religious arguments.
Now my thoughts on the hitler issue...
I somewhat doubt the validity of the IQ test if Hitler had an IQ of 150... anyone who mixes darwinism and creationist-christianity is dumber than a box of crap. These views are in direct opposition to one another.
Let me get this strait, heir Hitler, you think that jews are decendants of satan, white people are the sons of god, and everyone else are decendents of apes... hmmm, interesting considering the fact you follow the teachings of an arabic jew (Jesus Christ)...
The only thing I will say of Hitler is he was a brilliant public speaker, "Hitler knew that there were things you could say to a group of ten thousand people that you couldn't say to a group of a hundred" -some rabbi on the HBO america undercover episode dealing with faith healers.
where Hitler screwed up is he forgot the past.... oh ya and he didn't know what a retard he was...
"Napolean invaded Russia, he went
<walks one direction>
'ATTACK.... ATTACK...'
<stops and runs the opposite way>
ooh, its a bit cold, its a bit cold....
Years later Hitler said
<walks one direction>
'got a better plan, got a better plan'
<stops and runs the opposite way>
'oooh its the same plan, its the same plan..'"
-comedian Eddie Izard (funny guy)
The ironic thing is Napolean was Hitler's idle, you think he would've known better.Quote:
Originally posted here by x acidreign x
[B
where Hitler screwed up is he forgot the past.... oh ya and he didn't know what a retard he was...
"Napolean invaded Russia, he went
<walks one direction>
'ATTACK.... ATTACK...'
<stops and runs the opposite way>
ooh, its a bit cold, its a bit cold....
Years later Hitler said
<walks one direction>
'got a better plan, got a better plan'
<stops and runs the opposite way>
'oooh its the same plan, its the same plan..'"
-comedian Eddie Izard (funny guy) [/B]
Ya know, your condescending manner is quite offending.But I am assuming that you could care less about that. So, I will defend my logic.Quote:
Originally posted here by Conf1rm3d_K1ll
Silly little boy. I assume you also believe in fairies living at the bottom of your garden. That's the logic of your argument....
There is more to this world than what you can see, touch, smell, taste, or hear. There are things you feel.
Are denying even the existance of a spiritual realm. I mean, we have an energy inside us. An electric pulse. Well when our bodies die, where does that energy go? Because, physics tell us that nothing can be obliterated into nothingness, only changing forms, we assume that this energy inside us changes, and then just "go's away".
I also look at the constant of the gravitational pull as all the proof i need of a supreme being.
Without a Constant,or absolute, there can be no constant anything. Even if there was NOTHING but a big black hole, there would be a gravitational pull so strong not even light could escape it. Man, somthing real strong is pulling all this together, and whether it is a god or 'mother nature', somthing unknown is out there. Heres a quote of my own....
The man who has "learned it all", can never learn anything else.
http://www.magister.msk.ru/library/p...a/hitla002.htmQuote:
By leaving the process of procreation unchecked and by submitting the individual to the hardest preparatory tests in life, Nature selects the best from an abundance of single elements and stamps them as fit to live and carry on the conservation of the species. But man restricts the procreative faculty and strives obstinately to keep alive at any cost whatever has once been born. This correction of the Divine Will seems to him to be wise and humane, and he rejoices at having trumped Nature's card in one game at least and thus proved that she is not entirely reliable. The dear little ape of an all-mighty father is delighted to see and hear that he has succeeded in effecting a numerical restriction; but he would be very displeased if told that this, his system, brings about a degeneration in personal quality.
For as soon as the procreative faculty is thwarted and the number of births diminished, the natural struggle for existence which allows only healthy and strong individuals to survive is replaced by a sheer craze to 'save' feeble and even diseased creatures at any cost. And thus the seeds are sown for a human progeny which will become more and more miserable from one generation to another, as long as Nature's will is scorned.
But if that policy be carried out the final results must be that such a nation will eventually terminate its own existence on this earth; for though man may defy the eternal laws of procreation during a certain period, vengeance will follow sooner or later. A stronger race will oust that which has grown weak; for the vital urge, in its ultimate form, will burst asunder all the absurd chains of this so-called humane consideration for the individual and will replace it with the humanity of Nature, which wipes out what is weak in order to give place to the strong.
Judge for yourself what kind of man he was. Sadly, many "decent"
people find no fault with this kind of thinking,
but only draw the line at the mass murder that is a result of it.
:cool:
Hitler was the most twisted man ever born in this planet (or in the entire universe,who knows?).The fact that he was syrrounded by stupid people who adored him doesn't make him a genius,or even a smart man.I am Greek.I know what Hitler did to Jewes and i know better what he did to Greeks.I also know that twisted people like him don't live long.He was a man with no honor and no feelings.He deserves to burn in hell more than anybody else.I think you have heard of Alexander The Great.He also wanted to conquer the world.But everybody loved him.Have you asked yourselves why?Because he treated people like human beings.I don't say that what he wanted to do was right,but he certainly did it better tha Hitler.
Thanx For Reading...
Hitler was a man on cocaine(a medicine at the time), think how this affected him.