Are we just AI?

disclaimer:
the text below hasn't been written by the influence of drugs and/or alcool.
don't complain the author for his crappy english, he already know he would have taken that courses years ago.
no pet has been injured or killed while writing this post
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You're in the bed, wondering what you did the past few days, asking your god why does your final project still SegFaults in a random-fashioned way, when you begin thinking that your body is an incredible machine.

It autodiagnose broken parts, it tries to fix it, it has a powerful antivirus (altought not much updated. Symantec, what about Human.HIV and stuff?) and cool i/o devices.

And an incredible AI.

Why not?
The matrix (I recently rewatched it... a bit more crappy than what I remembered..) told us our brains are controlled. Let's take a step forward.

What is an image in our brain? How do we actually "store" faces, places, music, words, emotions in our brain?
It's just chemestry.

Now, let's suppose to fork() the universe, NOW.
Ok, there are two ruffos (me :) that wrote the same mental-crap.
Is the other one writing EXACTLY the same thing? Probably he is. He has the SAME experience as me, he is living in the same situation.

Do we really have the option to decide our future?
Or our hardcoded firmware is doing everything for us, giving us the impression (the dream?) of being master of our actions?

The human brain is essentially a center for electrical pulses and data flow. there is a reason they call the processor the brain of the computer. Oddly, the method is a lot more similar. The more we discover about ourselves as humans, the more we realize that creation wouldnt be that hard. which brings up another question to those who believe in a god of some kind. would human kind creating one of their own disrespect religion?

If interested, here is my favorite AI
http://www.alicebot.org/

I agree with u qwerty_smith. The smarterst computer system is our brain. It can process data faster than u can imagine. But for me, clone is not a good idea. Well imagine u can't recognize which one ur reall sister??

Yes our brains are the most amazing processors, but I certainly do not think that our brains represent artificial intellegence. I believe that by the choices we make in life, regardless of culture and upbringing, we have the ability to form our own destiny, to the best of our ability. Culture and upbringing will make a difference in the type of choices we make when faced with decisions, but it will still be and individual's choice.

While I have no doubt that the human body is a most amazing creation, and works in many ways we have no control, we have the ability of choice. Of that I have no doubt. We have the ability of emotion. No matter what AI exsists out there, I don't believe it can ever come close to the creation of the human body, and brain.

IMHO.

interesting stuff qwerty.
I've got a conclusion: we have the power of choice only if a superior entity exists and permit us to live. There is no intelligible way to think otherway.
No god (lowercase g, here god means "an entity"), no choice, just switch(decision) { case case case}.

But cloning is totally different stuff.
A clone is not and will never be an exact copy, provided he is living a different life from the original. Since we cannot send him in a parallel (altought totally equal) universe, and take him back (or just interview him), we can safely say that a clone is a genetically-equal, differently-experienced person.

jmho

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Yes our brains are the most amazing processors, but I certainly do not think that our brains represent artificial intellegence. I believe that by the choices we make in life, regardless of culture and upbringing, we have the ability to form our own destiny, to the best of our ability. Culture and upbringing will make a difference in the type of choices we make when faced with decisions, but it will still be and individual's choice.

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How can you be sure?

Take a muscle.
Stimulate it electrically.
It will move itself.
Do it again.
It will move the same way.

Now take your eyes.
Photons (is it a correct word?) stimulates nerves. Nerves brings electrical signals to the brain. You see your monitor.

That's I/O subsystem.

Now let's suppose you are a wizard in computer programming.
You've invented the ULTIMATE chatterbot (Yet another one... uff).
Now you programmed it to have self-consciousness.

It is SURE he is conscious. He just isn't.

All in all, what's the difference between our brain and an AI?

IMHO we are a sophisticated and self-conscious machine.

Provided there is no god :)

All of this re-raise the question of "are we determinate?"
A scientist point of view would generally be to consider that nothing really differentiate a man of a computer (yes, a man seems to be more complicated than a pc, but it is probably a small difference to the universe).

But Sartre would probably says that we are of "bad faith" (literal and not really good translation for "mauvaise foi"), that we have not the courage to admit we have the choice to be what we want to be at each minute of our live, that we are simply too frightened by the possibility of a total liberty (and of a total responsability).

Ruffo: Your english is less crappy than mine, don't worry.

Perhaps the next step to creating an AI is to create something that can talk to itself, like an interior monologue. How else can we tell ourselves we exist?

http://www.philosophos.com/knowledge...tions_939.html
Pretty interesting stuff about the subject.

But I've got my own (opposite) idea :)

Sorry if this answer seems overly simple.
AI (Artificial Intelligence). We are not artificial therefore we are not AI just "I".

This raises an interesting point....

Question: Can a program be programmed with out someone to program it?
NO.

So somthing or somebody 'programmed' us to be aware. And he also programmed us different from the other 'applications'.(creations) If you think about, we are the only entient that can choose NOT to replicate(mate). We as MAN, are the only life form that can go against natural instinct. I wonder why. I wish darwin would have included why no other speicies can do these things
in his theory.I guess we'll have to ask the Almighty Code Monkey in the sky. hehehhe

Well let me throw into this my view of things. Human kind by nature seeks to become the God they aspire to be. If we find these things lacking in ourself we do one of two things place fault and destroy (wars) or build machines to make a more lethal way to kill, or aspire and build machines that may do what we cannot. Like life heavy objects, dig a hole, weave a cloth better mass produce. AI cannot be massed produced because it is a product of not one person finding an answer but the "I" is a product of all human kind after all God is supposed to be ALL therefore not one program can contain the cultures, customs, language of all people and AI is not possible but for specific tasks. I know the face of my sons because I was there at their birth, I know the face of my father, grandfather, grandmother, great grandfather and mother because they were at my birth. I am as much apart of the rock as the wind and a star in the sky. Yes in a sense it is all a 0 or a 1 even in the mind. Yet it is only being human that we can arrange or re-arrange the 1 or the 0. AI canot touch, feel nor love only be programed to respond, and life last time I checked is not a single path.

Peace

3 words: Nature vs. Nurture- something you'll learn in a college psych class.

Only the human race not man elvolve, man is nothing without the giver of life a woman. Machines and programs kept my father alive, only I and his family held his hand in death and the machines were turned off upon his wish. A machine did not provide comfort to my mother-in-law heart broken head in my lap that passed away two weeks after her husband. These things are my reality what program can adapt to these things? AI is real but it cannot be reality. Make machines look and act real yes but not at the moment of birth nor death, famlies are about all generations before them no program can ever contain nor learn or adapt to me ever so really AI is nothing more then a conditioned response not unlike a rat learning a maze, and the complexeity of the maze is the programmer. Dr. life is not over at 21 it is about then the BS begins to fall away.

Our Brain is most essential part of our body even computer cant and never will defeat human mind 1st becoz we create computers and computer are invented to help human not to over power them with their great ability, like what cwk9 sez "AI" artificial Intelegent" for computer while human only has "I" "intelligent" ok

if anyones interested in a more philosophical approach to this subject (which although I find interesting i don't currently have time to give my full thoughts) the following book is worth a flick through

Danah Zohar; The Quantum Self, ISBN 0-00-654426-6

to quote the blurb on the back of the book

'... demonstrates how developments in modern subatomic physics demand a radical reappraisal of our conventional model of personality'

Has anyone noticed that the human race is getting "smarter"?

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The human brain is essentially a center for electrical pulses and data flow. there is a reason they call the processor the brain of the computer. Oddly, the method is a lot more similar. The more we discover about ourselves as humans, the more we realize that creation wouldnt be that hard. which brings up another question to those who believe in a god of some kind. would human kind creating one of their own disrespect religion?

If interested, here is my favorite AI
http://www.alicebot.org/

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Qwerty mentioned here that the human brain is essentially a center for electrical pulses and data flow. Are you not smarter than your parents? Weren't your parents smarter than theirs? Every cell in our bodies has the ability to store data, IMO our increasing intelligence is through the ages is due to genetic coding of our forefathers and theirs, and so on. My own children were born with the instinctual knowledge of my wife and I and our ancestors. Heck when I was 5 or 6 years old I was lucky to accel at "sandbox" and building blocks, at 4 years old my son was typeing with both hands and loading games off of a cassette tape into a Tandy color computer, and playing them!!

I am not entirely convinced we are AI, but I am positive we are "I".

the only thing that makes a man better/more aware than a computer is better I/O devices, Humans are born hardcoded with what it would take you or I centuries to accomplish, imagine what it would take to create a computer with temperature, and pressure sensors throughout its entire structure, the ability to assimilate visual data at massive resolutions at 60 fps, store hours of it, recieve and process years of audio on a massive sonic spectrum, and, oh ya, self programming technology. now, all of this is possible, it is theoretically possible to make a computer that is as good as, or better than a human being, but it would take too friggin long. computers are like people already in that they always do what they're programmed to do, not always what they're told, people who are gullible/pushovers are just user-friendly! the reason humans have become like this on their own may seem supernatural, but think about it, if we gave computers the ability to learn and better themselves, build new computers, all the while improving on their own design, how long do you think it would take for them to become sentient? aware? concious? intelligent? advanced? start exploring the world, the oceans, space, the universe. it is even concievable that they would become religious, or otherwise philisophical. how long have humans had to make these moves? and without the help of someone who had been through it, computers have us! I don't see why noone has created artificial intelligence yet, it doesn't make sense to me. the closest thing that programmers have come to creating a program with any hope of becoming intelligent are virus writers! think about it, many viruses assimilate information and incorporate it into the next generation of itself, EVOLUTION, that is what we must use to create intellingence with computers.

shkuey:

an ability to monologue yes and no statements, and the ability to self modify. Create that and we have the human brain. all of our everyday thoughts are huge complex yes/no statements. creative thought may be slightly different, and thats what makes humans so much different from other beings on earth.

Yes, we can reprogram ourselves, but we have technology that can reprogram itself, too. I have noticed that some computers with the same software tend to generate different error messages, at different times and different frequencies. One could call this the 'personality' of a computer.

On another note, to my knowledge, computers today are about as complex as the brain of an earthworm. How intelligent is an earthworm? It is my belief that intelligence, self-awareness, and emotion are emergent properties of any sufficiently complex and self-contained system. I think this definition provides a clear boundary between the artificial and the natural.

And if all else fails, I define intelligence (or rather sentience) as the ability not only to apart from instinct or programming, but (supposedly) in the best interests of an entire species. And finally, sentient life has the ability to question it's own existence. Computers do not.

This is a good cosmo topic :)

In essence, no we are not AI, like others have pointed out. We are not artificial. Do we have similarities to computers AI? Sure. We are taught (or programmed) with all we know, similar to a computer being programmed it's knowledge and functions. But does a computer/AI have basic instincts? Such as response to actions, cause actions, or understand? No. Computers must have a programmed intelligence, while humans have intelligence to begin with. Computers must have an OS or anything installed to function, while we as humans, can do without the art of teaching. We'll be far from intelligent as today, but we can still function, a computer/AI however will not.

While on this topic, would you agree that we, as humans, may be trying to create AI to replace the frailty of our existence with an immortal child? Are we not trying to create these beings as a way to continue our legacy without doubt of loss of heritage? (Kinda like how Speilbergs AI finished.)

It seems that people are to a point that they fear each other too much since the implemitation of the internet and are now only used to talking with text on a monitor. Is the creation of AI a replacement to having to find other companionships?

I'm a little deep in thought today...

just adding my 2 cent

Humans and Computers/programs could be one in the same. Religion tells us of a "god" that created humans, so that whould make "god" a programmer by default. We as humans created Computers and the programs that run on them. That makes humans the programmer in that situation.

Darwin's theroy is great it helps to explain what I am stating here. (I am personally neutral on darwin vs religion. I don't really care how or why I'm here, I'm just here) It is very hard to imagine one "super entity" that created everything, because everything has to start from something. Since everything has to start from something how was this "super entity" created. What if both are correct (god creating humans). Humans are decendant from chimps and there is a "god" that created humans as we are today.

Humans created computers, but not the elements that are required to make them. Chimps and all other primates have beed traced through evolution to the beginning of life on this planet, us humans however have not.

That alone tell us that there was intervention, here is where religion fills the gap.
Religion states that "god" is a higher form of life. With that in concideration we as humans can now do small changes in the genetic makeup of plants and animals, humans are a higher form of life than animals are we not? (men, we are DEVO :-) sorry I'm a DEVO fan) Whatever altered and manipulated the primate is a higher for of life than humans.

The bible, and I think most religions say that "god" created man in his own image. Sounds alot like cross genetics (or a recipe, take one chimp, one higher life form mix together, bake @ 350 deg, let cool. serve). If this is true everyone is praying to E.T. Now we have the "missing link" that everyone needs to prove Darwin's theory & a "god" who created us. That covers the human/computer one in the same issue. Both were created.

What a computer needs to be use full is a program. As you all know (will I hope you know it since you all use computers) a program is a set of instuctions or a routine based on a set of rules and equasions. Amoebas lives a routine, plants have a routine, here we have 2 different life forms that don't mate they have a routine. Routines that are based on survival of the species, Programmed by the environment in which they live. Computers today are like plants and amoebas, programmed based on their environments. Unlike ameboes computers have us, we change them give them things to do, evolve them. The poor ameoba is stuck in a looping program, no need to change because their environment is pretty much stable and changes rarely forever using DOS.

Intelegence it a very complex program, the more intelegence the stronger the processor you need. Lucky for E.T. the chimp had allready evolved some intelegence, the chimp was Windows 95 compared to the other animals running DOS and Windows3.11. Since you need more power processing for intelegence and the chimp has the minimum requirements for it. E.T. gave the chimp an upgrade, case and all from an AT form factor chimp case to an all new ATX E.T/chimp case. E.T. had a little problem there was a flaw in the intelegence program. and still decided to release the first man including the flaw. (this E.T. is starting to sound like microsoft) After alot of service packs and case revisions E.T. finally had a human. (still has flaws) E.T. allready had A.I. they took a shot at O.I. (organic intelegence) rather than starting from scratch manipulated from existing life. The final revision of human is the state of the art organic android, Self sustaining & Intelegent. Humans never forgot E.T. and formed religion, made a few changes and voila! Humans & Computers/programs one in the same. :-)



Todays computing power is not enough for complete A.I. its still in the amoeba stage,
Lets say there is a huge breakthrough in technology soon, biggest in history one that can increase processing power at least a billion times faster overnight. What will humans do with that much computing power? A.I. is one stage A.L. (Artificial Life) is the next step.
We all know that its not going to happen anytime soon expecially within our life times. But with anyluck and if we don't end up blowing ourselves up in the process our grand or great grand kinds will be enjoying their A.L I'm making sure my great grand son has one with kung fu grip. :-)

thats my 2 cents.

Hope no one ever asks for a dollar, there in for more than they imagine :-)

I think the real question to ask yourself is are we really here is this really happining. And where is this here. What does it consist of. If here was right in front of you would you be able to touch it? What does it feal like? Does it have a smell. How do you know what you feal is what is real? How do you know the smell from another smell.

The world is empty and meaningless but it is empty and meaningless that it is empty and meaningless.

Sorry, the post just reminded me of philosiphy class and in turn it made me think like a Sophist. Sorry bout the rambling

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Has anyone noticed that the human race is getting "smarter"?

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I don't believe basic human intelligence is improving, at least not in the leaps and bounds you suggest, merely the level of technology that humanity has mastered is increasing. This in turn allows us to teach this mastered technology to the next generation much quicker and efficiently. What you say sounds way too much like "Dune" to me.
However I do believe the freedom of choice and adaptability, being the ability to choose what parameters affect our decisions and change these parameters for no reason or consequence are what separate us from AI.

Here's a great way to look at it. Who here has seen the japanime series Serial Experiment: Lain? Watch it, you'll understand what I'm trying to point out.... :)