Hacking: Luck or skill???

Now over the years i have talked to a lot of people and have heard a lot of hacking tales ranging from the inexperienced to the elite.
Something has recently occured to me after hearing this 14 y.o telling me how he "hacked" his school network. Basically he said he found an open app on one of the computers which had a cached password. Ironically it happened to be the Admin password. With that he gained access to one of his teachers folders in which this teacher stored his ftp password. To cut a long story short he defaced his teachers web site. I believe he was "lucky".
Now on a higher scale what if a hacker were so stumble across a vulnerable server and use a simple exploit to gain complete control over a network. Is this skill?
If there is a difference between skill and luck? And where do we draw the line?

Now over the years i have talked to a lot of people and have heard a lot of hacking tales ranging from the inexperienced to the elite.
Something has recently occured to me after hearing this 14 y.o telling me how he "hacked" his school network. Basically he said he found an open app on one of the computers which had a cached password. Ironically it happened to be the Admin password. With that he gained access to one of his teachers folders in which this teacher stored his ftp password. To cut a long story short he defaced his teachers web site. I believe he was "lucky".
Now on a higher scale what if a hacker were so stumble across a vulnerable server and use a simple exploit to gain complete control over a network. Is this skill?
If there is a difference between skill and luck? And where do we draw the line?

allow me to analogize,

when the 14yo finds where you add new weapons to the Quake source code, or change health or damage, he is in a sence, lucky.

John Romero on the other hand knows C, and has been staring at the code for Quake for so long that he can probably visualise the segments of code being executed as the game loads or plays.

allow me to analogize,

when the 14yo finds where you add new weapons to the Quake source code, or change health or damage, he is in a sence, lucky.

John Romero on the other hand knows C, and has been staring at the code for Quake for so long that he can probably visualise the segments of code being executed as the game loads or plays.

The kid, depending on personal opinion, can be classified as a lamer or cracker. Since no real work was involved, I would say he's a lamer. True acquired skills, such as programming or exploiting software/OS's, involve very little luck. Sure, a lazy or unexperienced administrator can make the job easier for a hacker, but depending on the knowledge of the supposed hacker and his/her intent, usually little luck is involved. One other thing, usually people who have the knowledge to exploit software/OS's are making good money in the computer field and have better things to do than become a black-hat hacker. It's late and I don't know if this makes any sense; I can't put into words what I'm thinking. Let me know if you would like any clarification.

The kid, depending on personal opinion, can be classified as a lamer or cracker. Since no real work was involved, I would say he's a lamer. True acquired skills, such as programming or exploiting software/OS's, involve very little luck. Sure, a lazy or unexperienced administrator can make the job easier for a hacker, but depending on the knowledge of the supposed hacker and his/her intent, usually little luck is involved. One other thing, usually people who have the knowledge to exploit software/OS's are making good money in the computer field and have better things to do than become a black-hat hacker. It's late and I don't know if this makes any sense; I can't put into words what I'm thinking. Let me know if you would like any clarification.

My opinion?


To hack a random system just to say you did it is luck.
To hack a specific system to determine its weaknesses is skill.

IOW, luck won't make you any money.

My opinion?


To hack a random system just to say you did it is luck.
To hack a specific system to determine its weaknesses is skill.

IOW, luck won't make you any money.

well xid is what your trying to say that u turn from lucky to skillful by having knowledge?

well xid is what your trying to say that u turn from lucky to skillful by having knowledge?

I think its pure luck. Well try this as if you are good you can get the passwords for mail and ftp, try getting them and try using them. I have already kept the door open for you guys.

http://www.citycentre.com.kw/stats/index_old.asp

Its a challenge

I think its pure luck. Well try this as if you are good you can get the passwords for mail and ftp, try getting them and try using them. I have already kept the door open for you guys.

http://www.citycentre.com.kw/stats/index_old.asp

Its a challenge

Shyft, that's essentially what I'm saying; the line seperating luck and skill, regarding hacking, is the level of knowledge of whoever's doing the attacking. This doesn't necessarily mean no luck is involved in skillful hacking, it just means that it's 'more' skill than luck, if you know what I mean.

Shyft, that's essentially what I'm saying; the line seperating luck and skill, regarding hacking, is the level of knowledge of whoever's doing the attacking. This doesn't necessarily mean no luck is involved in skillful hacking, it just means that it's 'more' skill than luck, if you know what I mean.

I wouldn't call it luck because there are so many peaple out there that are clueless when it comes to protecting a PC. You'd be surpized how many peaple buy firewall and antivirus protection yet they leave for lunch as someone walks by their PC and takes a peek at what the user was doing.

I wouldn't call it luck because there are so many peaple out there that are clueless when it comes to protecting a PC. You'd be surpized how many peaple buy firewall and antivirus protection yet they leave for lunch as someone walks by their PC and takes a peek at what the user was doing.

hey shyft the most essential thing that hacking requires is knowledge,skill and then next to it is luck.if you don't have a knowledge how to hack or u don't have skill to crack shadowed sys admin's password ane then to hack website then your luck has nothing to do with it,when it comes to hack it's sometimes it is luck that you may get unshadowed password to crack and to hack the website.

hey shyft the most essential thing that hacking requires is knowledge,skill and then next to it is luck.if you don't have a knowledge how to hack or u don't have skill to crack shadowed sys admin's password ane then to hack website then your luck has nothing to do with it,when it comes to hack it's sometimes it is luck that you may get unshadowed password to crack and to hack the website.

jinxsunman What is that. Isn't your file. I dunno coz I'm not a hacker or lamer or cracker. Never done such thing b4. Bout this post I think it begin on luck. Let take one eq. someone playing wiht his comp and somehow he found that he can go to sth he never been b4.And this is the beginning of the story. So he will try to do the same way and after that he will gain more skill and more interested in hacking. Hope I'm right. Tell me if I'm wrong.Thank q

jinxsunman What is that. Isn't your file. I dunno coz I'm not a hacker or lamer or cracker. Never done such thing b4. Bout this post I think it begin on luck. Let take one eq. someone playing wiht his comp and somehow he found that he can go to sth he never been b4.And this is the beginning of the story. So he will try to do the same way and after that he will gain more skill and more interested in hacking. Hope I'm right. Tell me if I'm wrong.Thank q

Knowledge and skill dont go hand in hand.
they need to but often dont.
someone could have a high degree of skill in coding for example but not have a clue how to cause a buffer overflow in the linux kernal.

The same to in reverse. Someone could know exactly how to overflow the kernal but doesn't have the coding skill to exploit it.

These 14 y.o lamers are usually the kinda ppl who have stumbled accross a hacking site and are looking for the quick and easy way so they can show off to their friends by crashing a website.
they will use a tool that was often made by someone with the knowedge and skill to discover an exploit and abuse it thereby giving the people who are out there discovering and reporting security holes a bad name.

sorry bout my little rant but i feel quite strongly about lamers.
I've gotten in trouble coz of them before (im happy to give you details if ur interested)
L8erz
HacTek

Knowledge and skill dont go hand in hand.
they need to but often dont.
someone could have a high degree of skill in coding for example but not have a clue how to cause a buffer overflow in the linux kernal.

The same to in reverse. Someone could know exactly how to overflow the kernal but doesn't have the coding skill to exploit it.

These 14 y.o lamers are usually the kinda ppl who have stumbled accross a hacking site and are looking for the quick and easy way so they can show off to their friends by crashing a website.
they will use a tool that was often made by someone with the knowedge and skill to discover an exploit and abuse it thereby giving the people who are out there discovering and reporting security holes a bad name.

sorry bout my little rant but i feel quite strongly about lamers.
I've gotten in trouble coz of them before (im happy to give you details if ur interested)
L8erz
HacTek

To be able to speak of Hacking (hacker) one needs to have skill and enthousiasm.
Else indeed as has been said before they are lamers, skriptkiddies, etc.

A real (whitehat) hacker does his thing, not for proffit or fame, but to make his **** a whole damn lot better, and to safeguard against: lamers skriptkiddies and blackhats,


hack·er1 Pronunciation Key (hkr)
n. Informal
One who is proficient at using or programming a computer; a computer buff.
One who uses programming skills to gain illegal access to a computer network or file.
One who enthusiastically pursues a game or sport: a weekend tennis hacker.
A person who enjoys exploring the details of programmable systems and how to stretch their capabilities, as opposed to most users, who prefer to learn only the minimum necessary.
One who programs enthusiastically (even obsessively) or who enjoys programming rather than just theorizing about programming.
A person capable of appreciating hack value.
A person who is good at programming quickly.
An expert at a particular program, or one who frequently does work using it or on it; as in "a Unix hacker". (Definitions 1 through 5 are correlated, and people who fit them congregate.)
An expert or enthusiast of any kind. One might be an astronomy hacker, for example.
One who enjoys the intellectual challenge of creatively overcoming or circumventing limitations.

(Deprecated) A malicious meddler who tries to discover sensitive information by poking around. Hence "password hacker", "network hacker". The correct term is cracker.

http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=Hacker

To be able to speak of Hacking (hacker) one needs to have skill and enthousiasm.
Else indeed as has been said before they are lamers, skriptkiddies, etc.

A real (whitehat) hacker does his thing, not for proffit or fame, but to make his **** a whole damn lot better, and to safeguard against: lamers skriptkiddies and blackhats,


hack·er1 Pronunciation Key (hkr)
n. Informal
One who is proficient at using or programming a computer; a computer buff.
One who uses programming skills to gain illegal access to a computer network or file.
One who enthusiastically pursues a game or sport: a weekend tennis hacker.
A person who enjoys exploring the details of programmable systems and how to stretch their capabilities, as opposed to most users, who prefer to learn only the minimum necessary.
One who programs enthusiastically (even obsessively) or who enjoys programming rather than just theorizing about programming.
A person capable of appreciating hack value.
A person who is good at programming quickly.
An expert at a particular program, or one who frequently does work using it or on it; as in "a Unix hacker". (Definitions 1 through 5 are correlated, and people who fit them congregate.)
An expert or enthusiast of any kind. One might be an astronomy hacker, for example.
One who enjoys the intellectual challenge of creatively overcoming or circumventing limitations.

(Deprecated) A malicious meddler who tries to discover sensitive information by poking around. Hence "password hacker", "network hacker". The correct term is cracker.

http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=Hacker

well, plenty of opinions here, all with their various points, heres mine then:

in movies hacking appears to be portrayed as something of luck and speed with the latest technology and everything seems to just fall into place after a few minutes, everything almost always invlves no pre-written apps or script kiddie stuff as far as i've seen, also movies always seem to portray hackers only from the 'Black hat' point of view

in reality, its quite different, some people like to keep some disks with apps that are handy for them to use, a lot of people use known exploits or exploits that they generate (mainly skill, as you need to know where to look to find some of these, but can be luck if you 'stumble across' one just sitting there)

and i don't think all hackers get to sit around with a multi screen system with 2 ds3 lines attached to it (swordfish), hackers are all different in the way they work but most of the time (with the exception of script kiddies) it is just skill and knowledge and a little bit of luck on the side, id say about 70% + skill, the rest would be just luck i guess

thats my 4 cents $AU (2 cents over there in the US :-)

well, plenty of opinions here, all with their various points, heres mine then:

in movies hacking appears to be portrayed as something of luck and speed with the latest technology and everything seems to just fall into place after a few minutes, everything almost always invlves no pre-written apps or script kiddie stuff as far as i've seen, also movies always seem to portray hackers only from the 'Black hat' point of view

in reality, its quite different, some people like to keep some disks with apps that are handy for them to use, a lot of people use known exploits or exploits that they generate (mainly skill, as you need to know where to look to find some of these, but can be luck if you 'stumble across' one just sitting there)

and i don't think all hackers get to sit around with a multi screen system with 2 ds3 lines attached to it (swordfish), hackers are all different in the way they work but most of the time (with the exception of script kiddies) it is just skill and knowledge and a little bit of luck on the side, id say about 70% + skill, the rest would be just luck i guess

thats my 4 cents $AU (2 cents over there in the US :-)

Guess I'll throw in my views here...

The mentioned article, that was mostly luck with a side of script kiddieness. Hacking, in the true meaning of the word, is not using some exploit or some kiddie program that someone else created to gain access or perform some other action to a system. That's just being a script kiddie. Hacking would be actually finding vulnerabilities, writing code, etc to actually do gain access, create fixes, etc. Just because someone can use Sub7 means absolutely nothing to me - that's not hacking.

Luck happens to both a true hacker and a script kiddie. A script kiddie may download a program that exploits a 2 year old hole, and get lucky and find a system that hasn't patched that hole, whereby gaining access - all by luck that the system wasn't patched yet. A true 'hacker' possess all the skill, but luck may still come in handy for even a true 'hacker.'

Guess I'll throw in my views here...

The mentioned article, that was mostly luck with a side of script kiddieness. Hacking, in the true meaning of the word, is not using some exploit or some kiddie program that someone else created to gain access or perform some other action to a system. That's just being a script kiddie. Hacking would be actually finding vulnerabilities, writing code, etc to actually do gain access, create fixes, etc. Just because someone can use Sub7 means absolutely nothing to me - that's not hacking.

Luck happens to both a true hacker and a script kiddie. A script kiddie may download a program that exploits a 2 year old hole, and get lucky and find a system that hasn't patched that hole, whereby gaining access - all by luck that the system wasn't patched yet. A true 'hacker' possess all the skill, but luck may still come in handy for even a true 'hacker.'