Newbies vs. Addicts

I am not sure if this is true, but it seems the more posts you make, the higher your status. If that's the case, why do the higher-ranked members continually bash newbies, especially on one of their first posts? I don't get it. I know it's not all of them, and I'm not implying that it is. But the same members continualy bash newbies for asking what they think are stupid questions. Isn't that part of being higher ranked, answering questions of those who ask them? I mean, come on. There is a reason that Newbies are newbies.....NO EXPERIENCE!!! I hope this post will enlighten the few, and I won't mention names. So please give us Newbies a break. Thanx.

It would seem that many newbies assume that this is the kind of site where they can post a question asking how to gain root access to thier university server, how to portscan it, or work around its firewall, to name a few recent examples. These people need to know that this behaviour will not be tolerated on this site and yes, sometimes they will be flamed, poked fun at, or even banned. This group, from what I have seen, accounts for the majority of new users. And thanks to thier being made fun of, they do not last long.

However, some of these new users come on here asking "How can I protect my computer?" Or "How can I switch to Linux and not get DoS'ed?". Questions I myself have asked. Questions like this are precisely why this site exists and users like this do not deserved to be flamed for thier inquisitiveness. Those who do should be reprimanded. This site was not only designed to help the experts, but the wannabe experts as well. It does not exist as a public forum to flaunt your knowledge over those who do not share it. To humiliate a user who asks these questions serves only to lower thier self-esteem in these matters and to discourage them from learning. I myself am in this position. If you think a specific user is stupid simply because he/she does not know what you know, then keep your opinion to yourself and let a more decent person answer the post.

If only you saw the threads we've got going in the Addicts Forum about you n00bs... j/k! ;):D

Sure the status is higher with the post count, but the AP's count at least as much. On what should the status be based then? The limit of being a junior member goes at some 65 posts, then you get to be member, then addict and finally senior.

The ones who blame newbies for stupid questions usually do it for a reason. A stupid question here would be "How do I hack Hotmail?". That is not going to be answered (has been asked about 5*10^9 times and answered 5*10^7 times) as this is not a hacking site and blah blah <insert_disclaimer_here>.

Your sig is interesting...

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Need more info? TOO BAD! I hear voices and my voices don't like your voices.

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Isn't that a quite good answer to a stupid question?

Do you get more points / ratings for posting tutorials? I would like to point out that some of the most helpfull replies that I have read are from other newbies. And that you cannot asume that any given newbie has any less experience than any given adict.

Part of being new is trying to help people, that is how you become accepted into a comunity. Showing the script kiddies by example should be more important to the respected members around here than just telling them where to go. If you just flame them then you are setting a bad example for everyone else.

WaveRebel

ps I am not talking about anyone in particular

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Originally posted here by 1pizzaluvr4u
I am not sure if this is true, but it seems the more posts you make, the higher your status.

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ya, thats the general idea

AntiOnline Newbie - at least 0 posts

AntiOnline Jr. Member - at least 75 posts

AntiOnline Member - at least 175 posts

AntiOnline Addict - at least 275 posts
At this level, a user can use the AO Addicts Forum

AntiOnline Senior Member - at least 400 posts

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you yourself pitying istar the newbie because of his ultra-newbie status here..:

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Originally written by 1pizzaluvr4u here:
You are a newbie, and you don't have many posts. Good luck in your journies and use advice that you get from other members....

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I'm pretty sure that istar won't be around here for too long but I just found this interesting.

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And that you cannot asume that any given newbie has any less experience than any given adict.

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Waverebel, I'm glad you asked. Or pointed this out. Or whatever... just wanted to reply to this particular question. If, and when, some newbie has more experience than an addict, it is very unlikely that this newbie asks stupid questions!

ZeroOne

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Waverebel, I'm glad you asked. Or pointed this out. Or whatever... just wanted to reply to this particular question. If, and when, some newbie has more experience than an addict, it is very unlikely that this newbie asks stupid questions!

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Yes it would be nice if no one asked stupid questions, but not every newbie does. I guess the ones that don't cease to be newbies at some point the others just cease to be.

I apologise if I seemed a bit unclear.

WaveRebel

I was always taught to ask a question you felt was important to you even if you were afraid of looking stupid, the chances are that half a dozen or so people around you may be wanting to ask the same question but are even more afraid to ask. Anyone worth their salt will answer without making you feel stupid. The rest aren't worth bothering with.

However, a request for information on how to hack hotmail or the university server does not strike me so much as stupid but unethical. It seems to go against the spirit on which this site was founded and is one of the first things mentioned in the welcoming e-mail (re: faqs) so getting flamed for asking something such as that is perhaps to be expected?

And yes, I'm a newbie too....I came here because this site is actually mentioned by Cisco in one of their publications. I am currently studying to become (well try to become) a security professional.

If I may wade in here for a second.

First there have been threads on being easier on Newbies even those that post the "How do I hack Hotmail" question.

The point most of the more senior members of this list try to make, sometimes with poor or misunderstood methods, is that a member can search for their answer first. Many of the very basic questions have been answered many times. Therefore ALL members are encouraged to first search for old threads and even Google for a quick answer before posting a new thread.

That is one of the reasons when I post a question I always start of with a disclaimer mentioning that I have looked for the topic and have not found an adequate reply (this must be true to be effective). This simple step covers two things, 1) It helps the person learn to solve their own problems (which many true newbies need), 2) it stops the site from being overloaded with the same basic questions (which leads to frustration with long term members) and 3) it speeds up the time in which most questions get answered.

There is a move, and I believe it has been fairly successful, to restrain negging new members and give them some time to learn the ropes. After you have a number of posts and a few greenies to your name and then if you post "How do I hack Hotmail" I will be the first in line to neg you :D And quite pleased to because it will tend to center my bar.

The other move which all should be aware of is that negs without names is cowardly. Explain why you negged and sign your neg (some may make an exception for a new member negging someone with a string of Greens because the damage of a retaliation can be devastating).

Finally let us be very certain that we understand the difference between a New Member and and Newbie to Security. Many of the new members are not new to security and computers. Their answers can be as pertinent, precise, and informative as any member of this forum. However it will take time to build up their ratings so others can note that easily. It is true that the number of greens may indeed be used as an indicator that this person probably knows what they are talking about. However the reverse is not at all true. Judge the response by the quality of the post not the number of green dots.

New members should be encouraged and directed. If they resist that and still insist on trying to be Crackers then I have no qualms if they get negged off of this site.

I hope this helps to clarify things.

I know you did not mention names, but, I tend to try to give the newbies a boost when they deserve it. Of course, if they post really stupid crap, or are just being annoying by their aura of gross immatureity/ignorance, I will slap them with a neg, usually I try to coach them on the proper behavior and give them a few greenies. But I have also been ignored by some (you know who you are too!) and as far as I am concerned those peeps will get no help from me, nor will I aknowledge them with APs (ok maybe some reds). This is just me, like it or not...

Hello, new to site, learning much about networking and general and advanced PC stuff, previous and now, GLAD to see this is a legitimate site, looking to become a systems administrator, or something similar to that, anyway, glad to see that this seems the site where doing the right thing is encouraged,,,, Later,,, chill68

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Originally posted here by Striek
It would seem that many newbies assume that this is the kind of site where they can post a question asking how to gain root access to thier university server, how to portscan it, or work around its firewall, to name a few recent examples. These people need to know that this behaviour will not be tolerated on this site and yes, sometimes they will be flamed, poked fun at, or even banned. This group, from what I have seen, accounts for the majority of new users. And thanks to thier being made fun of, they do not last long.

However, some of these new users come on here asking "How can I protect my computer?" Or "How can I switch to Linux and not get DoS'ed?". Questions I myself have asked. Questions like this are precisely why this site exists and users like this do not deserved to be flamed for thier inquisitiveness. Those who do should be reprimanded. This site was not only designed to help the experts, but the wannabe experts as well. It does not exist as a public forum to flaunt your knowledge over those who do not share it. To humiliate a user who asks these questions serves only to lower thier self-esteem in these matters and to discourage them from learning. I myself am in this position. If you think a specific user is stupid simply because he/she does not know what you know, then keep your opinion to yourself and let a more decent person answer the post.

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I think us newbies should think before we post something, and when we first join the site there is something called the F.A.Q. This is made so that you know what kind of things to post and things not to post. Nobody really takes the time to look over the F.A.Q, if we did people would not neg us. We seriously need to start reading the F.A.Q I am not trying to say that it was wrong for 1pizzaluvr4u to start this post becasue if that is how he feels he should let people know. It also makes sense that we get ned'd because we are doing something worng or doing something that is not accepted by this website and its members. Once again we need to start reading the F.A.Q when we first join. If you think that people neg for no reason or they are trying to be unfair then you are wrong. If you look over the F.A.Q you will realize why they neg you. I might get ned'd for this post by newbies like me but i am still speaking my mind becasue i think this is what that needs to be done for newbies to stop getting neg'd. All the newbies out there PLEASE read the F.A.Q because i am tired of some of us complaining all the time that they are getting neg'd, if you are getting neg'd you are doing something wrong.

Everybody knows i am a newbie too and they going to wonder why i posted this and then they going to neg the crap out of me i just know it. lol.:)

Perhaps many "newbies" ask questions which may seem stupid to you but much of this stuff is old hat to many of you. Here is an example of what I mean these are the medical terms used in the description of the side effects of antipsychotic drugs,Tardive dyskinesia, Oculogyric crisis, and Dystonia. If you were an intern and asked me what these terms mean I would not consider you stupid, however if you didn't ask and were new to the field I would either consider you stupid or to lazy to learn. I would not reply with sarcasm for it would be expected that "newbies" be given slack and might stumble over their own feet If however you had been there awhile (6 mo to a yr) and showed no signs of growing then that might change my answers a bit. I was always taught at work to ask questions to gain the ability to learn tips and tricks from those with "senior" status . Sarcasm and verbal bullying weren't seen too often and also the "newbies" had to give respect back. The idea was to learn not to impede growth. Always using technical terms can be a form of snobbery.I also might consider my ability to teach clearly was important and would use laymen's language now and then..New blood keeps a site from growing old and stale. True, rules should be followed but by both sides Many people do not know how to express themselves clearly and many are just "very young". Auntie

Don't judge the book by the cover. A newbie here just means that they have only just joined the site or have not made many posts. It does not mean they are new to IT/Comms or just out of school, or even still in it.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, so what if it isn't yours or mine? I agree with auntie in that it can be very hard to convey your true intention across a media that relies almost exclusively on words. Everything one writes is subject to the interpretation put upon it by the reader.

im a n3b and i have some questions that i dont wanna ask b/c they are stupid.....i got online and "googled" them....if you take time and look all the questions are out there you just have to be patient enough and be willing to take the time to find them...."ask a question a be a fool for 5 minutes..never ask a question and be a fool for a lifetime"--anonymous.......i would rather find the answer and be made fun of for a day or two then never know...just some insight

wow....looks like i opened a whole new can of worms. i wasn't trying to be specific, like wth istar, becuz i know others, including myslef, who were negged by members w higher status for asking a valid question. when it comes to the hacking hotmail crap, i say neg away!

I truely understood where everybody was coming from. I think that this post is not a bad. I mean, we all get to say what we want or feel. I am a newbie and learning as much as i can is my mission. Its really annoying when people post things like hacking hotmail, crack an email, back door in vbs. I am here to learn about computer security not about computer invasion. Like i was saying ealier if we will just read the AO F.A.Q all the newbies will know that subjects like that are forbidden. A lot of newbies blame other people for negging them, We can't keep using the excuse " I didn't know that we couldn't post topics like that." 1pizzaluvr4u i see where you are coming from but we got to think first before we post just anything and blame being a newbie for it. ;)

yes i get tired of the "how do i hack hotmail" and the newbies who seem to never leave the humor forums as much as everyone else does...

but i don't see senior members helping anything when they rip into a newbie for honestly trying. i remember not too long someone getting flammed for asking the difference between ide and scsi. i think this is a perfectly acceptable question, and didn't deserve the harsh response it did. the point of this site is for everyone to help a little, and ask a little.

i know i'm still pretty new here too, but this is susposed to be a community of professionals sharing experience, not bullies belittling those "below" them

Here is a question for you, does newbie = you know jack **** and Addicts = you know quite a lot?

All this newbie and addicts stuff only shows how many post you have made, how can that show how clever or good you are at security?

Addits can learn from Newbies and Newbies can learn from Addits. It doesn't matter who you are you can know about everything so there is always someone else to learn from even if they under 75 posts.

Yes you do get some people who have the wrong idea about this site, but can that be helped "Hackers know the Weakness in your system. Shouldn't You?"? Hacking and security go hand in hand.

As far as I can see the difference between an Addit and a newbie, is that an Addit knows what is acceptable for a post. So thats my 2cents on the matter.

SittingDuck

My point was many newbies do not have as much knowledge as higher ranked members. Not all of them, just many.

SittingDuck,

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As far as I can see the difference between an Addit and a newbie, is that an Addit knows what is acceptable for a post. So thats my 2cents on the matter.

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This is probably about 80% fact. ;)

But... there are a few of us here who won't even post to a thread that is "stupid, offensive, off topic, etc..." It is not worth the loss of reputation to add to a thread full of meaningless s**t. Those folks will simply thow a pos or a neg at the person(s) tell them why in a comment, and sign it. At least the REAL upper echelon will sign it. If I am going to neg someone without posting to their thread I will always sign it. But, of course there always seems to be an ******* or 2 in the mix that really seems to throw a wrench in the gears.
<rant>Like this weirdo
I don't know about you but I could never respect a person who goes by this name. Newbie or not, this guy has zero respect for others. I don't care if he is the most intelligent member we have, he has no future here.
The first thing I noticed, is his profile is very incomplete.</rant> :firedevil

<edit>Here is a perfect example...I just recieved a well deserved neg on this post, here is the comment:

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youre not supposed to be signing anonymous antipoints

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This person IS 100% correct with his statement. The AntiPoint system is SUPPOSED to be anonymous. I deserved this because I mentioned, IMHO, the "right thing to do". I am not trying to upset the AO apple cart by telling you all that I sign my antipoint awards to others. I have been called down on this before, I might add. ;)
This just supports the statement I made to a tee. I am sure this person will not post to this thread as he/she feels they are "above" this conversation.
P.S. this cost me exactly (1) point off of my total </edit>

I think you have a good point with not all "newbies" knowing absolutely nothing about security. Personally, I have noticed some really good answers on various threads coming from newbies and I'm pleased with the way this site is working out. The reason I joined this site was to LEARN more and become more than just a gamer and the "tech guy" over the phone to people. Finally, aeallison, I think you have a good system going on with the way you hand out your APs, its very fair, and I'll try to keep it in mind.

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But... there are a few of us here who won't even post to a thread that is "stupid, offensive, off topic, etc..." It is not worth the loss of reputation to add to a thread full of meaningless s**t

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I don't mind the loss of reputation that goes with posting to this thread (not that I had any rep anyway) :D
and this would be the stupidest thread I've seen in a long time...

<rant>

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As far as I can see the difference between an Addit and a newbie, is that an Addit knows what is acceptable for a post. So thats my 2cents on the matter.

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This is probably about 80% fact.

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80% fact... that's 100% fact. Blind Willy could tell you that was 100% fact.

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becuz i know others, including myslef, who were negged by members w higher status for asking a valid question

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I seriously hope your idea of a valid question isn't something like this or this.

Ok: If you're a newbie, you don't search google, and you ask a question when the answer is easily available ON google, like by hitting the 'I'm feeling lucky', then don't be surprised when you get ****ing negged or flamed. It's not nice to rip into the newbies on this site for asking a question like that - but it's not unfair. If you need something explained, or the general opinion on something, then fine, post a question on it. But don't post a stupid question and whinge about negs.

At one time or another you've probably heard that there's no such thing as a stupid question. Well when it comes to stuff like this, there is. Auntie's example of medical jargon would hold true for the medical industry - sometimes you need to know something quickly and the easiest way to find out is to ask a more senior nurse, for example. If you need to know the answer to a question on computer security, you would (generally) be sitting at your computer, not exactly pressed for time, and with a wide range of search engines available for you to use. If you can't find the answer, and you have searched high and low, then post it. It's a valid question, and by adding a disclaimer, you show people that you have at least looked.

Tedob1's thread here encouraged people to lay off flaming noobs. I would like to think that it was halfway successful. Hopefully noobs will not be scared off by the angry addicts/senior members any longer. But, if they post a stupid question and get flamed/negged - they deserve it.
</rant>

I am a newbie. I'm here to learn and I'm glad if I can help other people. But lemme tell u somethin. I'm not THAT attached to the rank.

I think the only difference between newbies and addicts is, like ebo pointed out (post #12), whether they care to read the FAQ or not. I mean whatever ur official rank is, ur a newbie unless you read and understand the FAQ.

I once reminded a senior member to RTFM and google what he wanted to know:
http://www.antionline.com/showthread...382#post563382
Yeah, I understood the risk messing with a senior, and I'm not proud of what I've done, but I thought as a community member I really needed to remind him.

So? Read and understand the FAQ. Dunno where to find it? I don't believe it. U can search it easily. And one more thing:

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How to not look stupid
I will let you know about a few mistakes many new people make, so you can avoid the usual fare of newbie stuff. The title is just a joke ;). We were all new at one point and we have all made mistakes. Don't worry if you make a mistake, or someone appears angry about it, they are usually only joking around. The most common mistake is posting something in the wrong place. This takes a while to get used to, but before starting a new thread, take a quick glance at the forums list and see where it fits best. Another mistake commonly made is creating a thread already made. It's pretty difficult going through all the posts to see if the new thread idea you have already exists but do a quick scan or use the search function to search for the thread.

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Peace always,
<jdenny>

powertoad5000,

/me wonders why you hid this post?

It may be extremely boring to some, but, to others it probably answers a lot of questions they had. I, for one, have learned quite a lot in this thread.

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Tedob1's thread here encouraged people to lay off flaming noobs. I would like to think that it was halfway successful. Hopefully noobs will not be scared off by the angry addicts/senior members any longer. But, if they post a stupid question and get flamed/negged - they deserve it.

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This was a very interesting thread, sadly I had not seen it until you referenced it. You really did a lot of research on your post. It also seems to me that you have some sort of grievance with a newbie, 1pizzaluvr4u, as you referenced a couple of of her earlier threads she posted to. 3 links to threads almost 30 days old. I can tell that 1pizzaluvr4u has improved in several areas, her posts are getting better. I can tell everyone here that they (if they wanted to do the research) could pull up similar posts that I made in my first few days here.

I am not saying that you are doing anything wrong by posting what you did here, just that you are also still learning, as I am, and everyone on this planet capable of breathing. You hid your post for what reason?

I have a tendancy to rate a members potential on these forums by their personal profile, here is yours (for an example) and for another example... here is mine (toot, toot ;) ) Notice anything? I am not saying that you should give your complete life story here, but be proud of your accomplishments. I see so many members profiles with their birthdate set to "nil" does that mean you are not really here? I am sorry but the only sense I can see in being incomplete or deceptive in your own profile is that you have something to hide, or just plain ol ashamed of what/who you are. Their are legit reasons for being deceptive here, most of them are spurred from fear of something, or by an oath of non-disclosure, etc...I can understand leaving things blank because you might not have anything to add to it, But, don't fill it with misleading cr*p. If you can't say anything nice don't say it at all...this term is again spawned by a person who was tired of being ridiculed. Why even make this statement to another person, it just shows that the general concensis has been not so nice...why? And for the photo, I am sure you can find no one here uglier than my mugshot, but it, at least, lets people know I am real...:D

Just don't die aeallison...if you do then I'm stuck as the ugliest man on AO!

But seriously, I too read Tedobs thread and adopted my own method of handling the "newbie" situation. If I see a newie post that is out of line, I'll drop them a friendly pm and explain what is or is not acceptable in their post, ask them to look at the FAQ's and welcome them to AO. No negs, no greens, just a little friendly advice. If they choose to continue being anal retentive or outright ignorant after that, then I see it as open season for negs from that point forward. I'm not promoting that type of behaviour, just saying that there are alternatives for negging the newbies.

Hrm...now for my $.02

Addicts = you post alot
Points = you either make good posts, or people like you (be it for your opinions, friendships, or you are a hot girlie)

In the end, they have only as much value as you give them. Neither one qualifies you as an expert in any way or has any standing on your technical knowledge. If you want to judge that or be judged by that then I'd suggest going over posts made by that person in the past to see what they are all about.

Most noobs do need to think more before they post. Using hacking to gain knowledge isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it's all in how you go about it (and how you phrase your questions/posts). If you are going to try different tools such as sub 7 or play with exploits and virii...fine. But set up a test box/network and do it there. Do it responsibly.

If you have a really basic question, use google and see if you can find it yourself. If you have a more difficult question....use goodle and see if you can find it yourself. No one wants to spoon feed anyone else or be their mr. miyagi. And if someone says they do.....be weary of them.

The answers to most of your questions have been asked a thousand times by other people on the internet. Earlier today we (myself and people from irc) looked up exploits and techniques related to port 0, fragmentation scans, and the possible uses of mtu size exploration in order to do recon/attack a network. It's all out there...just take some initiative and go look first.

And finally, it's all about intent. If you are doing stuff to learn then for god's sake take the time to learn the basics of your os, networking, and any programming language you may need. Don't just come in and ask people to hold your hand and help you hack hotmail or social engineer people. If you think you have a valid security related question and it get's flamed then maybe you need to re-think the way you are asking it.

Finally...the post count doesn't always update your standing on the site....I'm still a noob. :)

I'm on the fence with this one.I think people should take it easy with the n00bs for a lot of things.I've seen newbies get negged to the point of being banned for double posting their first post(well actually two posts),and for asking questions that are in the FAQ.In cases like this don't be so damn trigger happy with the negs.

On the other hand,I've seen n00bs come in and make their first posts using vulgar language and asking how to hack hotmail and school networks and whatever else.In this case,I think they should be told to delete the post,why to delete the post,and given a little time to do so.If they decide not to do it,then they should get negged.

I know on more than one occasion I've gotten negged down to gray for posting my opinion on a controversial issue,and was lucky enough to be bailed out of getting negged to cyber oblivion for posting a thread very similar to this when I was a junior member.I'm not saying that I did or didn't deserve negs when I got them,because I know I've kinda asked for them with a few of my posts.I don't however feel that a person should be negged for their opinion(whatever their rank).I may be a little off base,but I think the whole idea of AP's is to get rid of the people who don't try to better themselves and the site by learning something/making posts of better quality,not to try to instill your opinion on people with less AP's than you.

It seems that again I have let my mouth over-ride my a**. I just recieved quite a butt chewing from powertoad5000. This member has very legit reasons for being slightly deceptive on their profile. I am sorry d00d, I used a poor example set. :( His post is hidden due to language. I again thought a different reason, thats what happens when you outlive the dinosaurs...

allenb1963,
Good information/suggestion. :thumbsup:

Juridian,
Thanks for your $.02

gghornet,

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I know on more than one occasion I've gotten negged down to gray for posting my opinion on a controversial issue,and was lucky enough to be bailed out of getting negged to cyber oblivion for posting a thread very similar to this when I was a junior member.I'm not saying that I did or didn't deserve negs when I got them,because I know I've kinda asked for them with a few of my posts.I don't however feel that a person should be negged for their opinion(whatever their rank).

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Me too! But I just can't seem to stay out of these threads. I suppose that we all eventually get what we deserve.

And powertoad5000 also suggests that I change my sig...

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judging by that signature of yours. Maybe you should paraphrase it: 'Anyone who iz +40 and shallow az a wading pool can't be all that bad'.

Neg me, I don't care.

-toad

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LOL toad, this is good stuff. I would never neg a person for this. Thanks for the view of another perspective.

I have been around for a while, and here is what i've coem to think: addicts or whatever are usualy good in their fields but they can't stand questions that are either too obvious or not pc ... so do a google search / tread serach first.
As far as the greenies I don't think they really matter that much because you often get greenies from opinions treads not on tech related info so they are not that representative....

And it is also true that it's not because you joined a year ago or last week that either one can be more knowledgable ....
my 2 cents

There is a lot of good stuff coming out of this thread. Much saying don't put too much emphasis on the label next to a user name. For my own part I have 10 years experience in telecomms (does this mean I know nothing as I'm a newbie?) BUT I AM new to network security. In an earlier post I said that I was led to this site as a result of my studies to become a network security professional. My industry has changed and I need to change with it. I'm here to see what I can learn and bat ideas about with others in the same genre.

Regarding questions about hacking. If I build a network solution then I want to test it. The best way is to try to hack it. This seems to be a good place to ask how to do it. Though if someone is going to ask a straight hacking question they should qualify it by explaining why.

I was also an instructor in another unrelated subject, but never belittled someone for asking me 'stupid' questions. Reason? they won't ask when it is an important question nor will the others in the group.

I waffled on about 'ethical' questions in a previous post so I won't go there again :) Now you all know a bit more about me. I'd put a pic up but it would be banned under the public ugliness ordinance :D

I want to thank eeryone that supports my thread. To those that brought up my past threads: so I made a few mistakes....IT HAPPENS. If a post or thread is a month or so old, GET OVER IT. I created this thread for the sole purpose of giving those who are afraid to say something or don't know what to do a voice. I'm sorry if you interpret this to mean that I condone hacking Hotmail or whatever. I appreciated jdenny 's post

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I am a newbie. I'm here to learn and I'm glad if I can help other people. But lemme tell u somethin. I'm not THAT attached to the rank.
I think the only difference between newbies and addicts is, like ebo pointed out (post #12), whether they care to read the FAQ or not. I mean whatever ur official rank is, ur a newbie unless you read and understand the FAQ.
I once reminded a senior member to RTFM and google what he wanted to know:
http://www.antionline.com/showthrea...3382#post563382
Yeah, I understood the risk messing with a senior, and I'm not proud of what I've done, but I thought as a community member I really needed to remind him.
So? Read and understand the FAQ. Dunno where to find it? I don't believe it. U can search it easily. And one more thing:

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How to not look stupid
I will let you know about a few mistakes many new people make, so you can avoid the usual fare of newbie stuff. The title is just a joke . We were all new at one point and we have all made mistakes. Don't worry if you make a mistake, or someone appears angry about it, they are usually only joking around. The most common mistake is posting something in the wrong place. This takes a while to get used to, but before starting a new thread, take a quick glance at the forums list and see where it fits best. Another mistake commonly made is creating a thread already made. It's pretty difficult going through all the posts to see if the new thread idea you have already exists but do a quick scan or use the search function to search for the thread.

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Read it. Understand it. Let it guide you, if you will. ENOUGH NEGGING NEWBIES THAT ARE BEING PRODUCTIVE!

As for everything else brought up, I opened a whole can of worms I never intended to. If I insulted your intellegence or integrity or whatever, I'm sorry. But otherwise, u know my position.

This is my opinion, but I think that more senior members should think back to when they were a newbie and remember what it was like before poking fun at less experienced member's questions. Instead of laughing at one for asking "How do you hack hotmail?", give them ISBN's or URL's where they can find that info on their own. Remember no one ever started at the top or knew all the knowlege.

all my negs seem to be from the same users over and over again, telling me my posts are useless and guess what? they are all high ranked members. if my posts were really that useless, would i have any greenies @ all? and if my posts are so useless, why do these same people waste their time by negging me? it just doesnt make sense! i'm also getting pms now that complain about the thread becuz certain people dont want to post their true feelings.

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powertoad5000 wrote on Today 02:52 AM:
<grumpy>

Ok. I don't want to post this so I'm pm'ing it instead.

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To those that brought up my past threads: so I made a few mistakes....IT HAPPENS. If a post or thread is a month or so old, GET OVER IT.

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I suppose you are directing this at my post in this thread. If you read my post, you may have a better understanding of why I brought them up.

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becuz i know others, including myslef, who were negged by members w higher status for asking a valid question

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You saying you were negged for asking a valid question... you haven't asked any valid questions. And those two links in my post are the two questions you have asked while being here. That's the sole reason I brought it up.
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I appreciated jdenny's post

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So it's ok for a newbie to tell a senior to go google it and RTFM, but not vice versa? Sounds a bit hypocritical to me.

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ENOUGH NEGGING NEWBIES THAT ARE BEING PRODUCTIVE!

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What has that got to do with anything? Notice that jdenny has a fair few antipoints. Look at sittingduck, he's a newbie, but he's also intelligent and knowledgeable - that's why he's got antipoints. No-one is negging newbies that are being productive.

The only problem I have with this thread is that you are basically saying it's wrong for addicts/seniors to neg/flame somebody for asking a simple question, and that simple questions are ok if the person asking it is a newbie. Well if they looked for about five seconds, there's a good chance that they'd find the answer on a site/search engine somewhere. That's my problem with this thread - you are more or less advocating laziness.

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I Have an Idea!! Let's neg everyone because we don't like what they post, even if they are supporti ng a cause that other people are too afraid to post because they don't want to be negged! Then, lets give greenies to those that neg the people that a

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All right: That's bullshit. You might like to think that's what's happening, but it's not. I negged you on the first post of this thread, because I'm ****ing tired of whinging threads. They take the place of threads which could be interesting / informative / educational. Also, your argument made no sense to me - IMO it was unfounded and nonsensical.

You're not suporting a cause which I would stand up for. Say your thread was about seniors negging newbies for answering questions (or being productive), or addicts flaming newbies for asking legitimate questions (w/examples of this happening). That would be a cause worth supporting. Fortunately, that's not happening. And I wouldn't give greens to someone because they negged a specific other member - that's bullshit as well. How would I be able to tell if they gave reds to someone?
I asked dumb questions/made dumb posts when I first got here - everyone does. I got flamed/negged for these posts. Did I post a whinge thread? No. Who gives a **** about antipoints. Who gives a **** about flaming. I laid back for a bit and stopped posting until I thought I could contribute properly. And now it's all good. You are getting all up-in-arms about newbies being flamed etc. Well here's what I say to you: you got negged/flamed, and they get negged/flamed...

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IT HAPPENS

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GET OVER IT

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</grumpy>

I'm not trying to scare you off or get you to leave, and I'd appreciate it if you didn't make this public, or post this in that thread (as aeallison decided would be prudent with my pm to him). If you still don't agree with me... then so be it. I just get the feeling that you don't understand where some of us are coming from with our replies to this thread.

Just some final things. The Antipoints system is meant to be anonymous:

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By it's very nature, the AntiPoint system is anonymous. Users can rate posts without having to worry about backlash from the originating user.

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FAQ

Also, there's nothing cowardly about not tagging your negs. I have never got a tagged neg.

Also, many seniors/addicts look down on most one-line posts (with good reason). One, because mostly they are 'great work', 'nice tutorial', 'congratulations' i.e. they are useless. If you have to say something like that, do it in an antipoint. Also, it looks as if you are posting simply to up your post count and gain access to the Addicts forum. Just a FYI

Hopefully the rest of the time you spend here won't be as arduous as this early time has been. Good luck with your future posts

-toad

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lets grow up and not send "hate pms", shall we?

I'm opening a private conference room for this discussion,and sending keys to all thread subscribers,because I could see this quickly developing into an AP war and I think a lot of people are making valid points.If you aren't on the thread subscribers list,send me a pm and I'll send you a key.

I read 1pizzaluvr4u hidden thread, and i think he shouldn't get nedded for posting this. Look at how much good that has come out of it. The newbies tell you higher ranked how they feel about them negging them, and the higher rank tells the newbies why they neg them. I actually like this post because i feel like a lot was worked out on this post. The higher ranked understands us now maybe not all of them but believe the ones that have concious understands us. As one of the good higher ranked people pointed out. AEALLISON said if he sees a newbie posting something that dow not make sense at all or has nothing to do with the purpose of this site, he will pm him or post on his thread giving the thread starter the link to the FAQ area. Now if we all can have some patience for newbies like aeallison is willing to have for them. We all will get a long just fine. Its not only the higher rabked some of us newbies got to admit it does get annoying to see other newbies posting up non-sense threads. I 100% DISAGREE THAT 1PIZZALUVR4U SHOULD GET NEGGED FOR POSTING THIS THREAD BECAUSE IT ACTUALLY HELPED A LOT FOR MANY OF US. :MAD:

THANKS A LOT 1PIZZALUVR4:)

i know i dont ever post in these but i feel as though i need to 1pizzaluvr4u PM do you know what that stands for ?(ie) private messages
those private messages powertoad5000 sent you are suposed to be private and he gave you really good advice in them
i dont see why you brung them in to the thread that was obviously a discussion between the 2 of you

i suppose i will be blamed for picking on new member to :rolleyes: /me sighs

edit and to the negs i got

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stop being a jack ass

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stop being a coward sign your name and maybe you can elaborate on the jack ass feel free to PM me

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meep

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WTF does meep mean ?i would ask you to PM me but its obvious you are to stupid to understand that

Wow..This thread went on a mite too long.Especially considering there are TONS of threads like this.All of them accomplishing a little less than the last I believe.People talk about posts that accomplish nothing and take up space...Well heres the prime example.I just wasted way to much time reading this.(I know I'm the one to blame for that, but so many people were posting it seemed like something worth reading was bound to come up, and I did like the bit that powertoad posted.)Maybe people need to just get over all of this.Posts whining about negs or member status serve almost no purpose.Thats just my 2 cents, and considering I'm just a lurker it may not even be worth that much to most of you.

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and I'd appreciate it if you didn't make this public, or post this in that thread

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/me sighs

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i'm also getting pms now that complain about the thread becuz certain people dont want to post their true feelings.

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The reason I didn't post it here was because it was (mostly) off topic and I said everything I wanted to say in my first post. I had nothing new to add to the discussion in the thread. That's why I pm'ed you.

oh well...

[edit]hopefully this will get cleared up in the conference room :)[/edit]