Ethical question.

Okay, I'm scrolling the web happily when I come across this.

www.k-lite.tk

Now, for those of you to scared to click links, thats a program based on Kazaa that basically uses the Kazaa network without having ANY of the Ad's that Kazaa has.

Now what I was wondering is, If its connected to Kazaa, Then its lack of Ad's, etc, Is surely stealing off of Kazaa? Would that count as "Hacking" perhaps? I mean, Technically its taking away revenue from Kazaa...
But then again, the internet is technically a "Free" society, and Ad's to it is technically stealing our free space...
So what do we think?

Well I dunno about that, I would have to download it,.... but I guess is called hacking but im not sure

No, KazaaLite is basically Kazaa with a few moderations in it. Past issue's of Kazaa has spyware on it, and I guess someone decided to make a KazaaLite program that basically take's out the spyware and the bugs. I don't think that is the original creators site though, I think that person wanted credit for it or something, because that isn't KazaaLite's website.

You are right Spyder32, this link is for kazaalite that is directly affiliated with kazaa. The other site states in their terms of use that it is not in any way affiliated with kazaa.

I use kazaa lite rather than have to clear out spyware all the time.

The Kazaalite I'm using, IS stealing/ Hacking or whatever, BUT there is a Kazaa Lite that actually IS Kazaa related, and thus not hacking?
Does the Kazaalite not hacking have less features or something, I know I should read the webpage, but I'm busy right now..
It seem's strange that kazaa would ALLOW someone to use there network for free...

Hrm...it's funny that the ethical dilemma is using software that doesn't generate ad revenue for kazaa and not the pirating while using the software.....

its also funny he has no time to read the site but has time to read a responce from someone on here...and maybe im confused to, but how is kazaa related to hacking again?

The point was that Kazaa have made a peer to peer network, for themselves, to generate revenue. If someone then comes along and uses that network, WITHOUT giving anything to Kazaa, surely that counts as stealing.

It relates to hacking because thats what hacking IS, Using your computer in a way that disrupts someone elses security. If you hack into a business computer, and do any form of damage, you're causing that company to lose money, and thats whats bad about it.. If no money was related, there would be almost NO hackers.. Just dumb script kiddies who like to cause trouble for a laugh...

At least thats my take on it...

This is kinda why its in general chitchat, I didn't want it to be about stealing the software itself, Because thats obviously "wrong", The question is about the ownership of something that has no physical dimension. The Kazaa network is made up of US, so should we be allowed to use it for free? BUT, it was made BY Kazaa, so shouldn't they get something for it?

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but thats somewhat what I was thinking when I posted this..

(By the by, I had time to read and reply, but my wife wanted me to go out, so I had to go. Clicking that link and waiting for it to load etc, would have taken a lot more time than just replying, since afterwards I'd have had to reply anyway. I'm about to go read it now...)

hmmm, ok, so you download kazaa (which is free) and people use it to download software that actually costs money for free... umm ok.

"It relates to hacking because thats what hacking IS, Using your computer in a way that disrupts someone elses security. If you hack into a business computer, and do any form of damage, you're causing that company to lose money, and thats whats bad about it.. If no money was related, there would be almost NO hackers.. Just dumb script kiddies who like to cause trouble for a laugh... "

hmmm, now there your deffinatly wrong, hacking is not using your computer to disrupt security and or make a company lose money....do you work for the media? thats called cracking, hacking would be the one where you do it because of curiousity/to see if you can and for wanting to learn how it works, the original hackers in the 60s werent causing damage, they were finding new ways to do things people take for granted now and creating UNIX, and as far as that money thing goes , iv never been paid for anything and neither have my friends, i do it because i enjoy it and because its fun. and as far as there being no hackers if money wasnt involved...wait seriously are you high? for real you can tell me, man come on where are you getting this thing about money, the originals in the 60s werent being paid, unless they were hired after they did something great, its not for money and if it wasnt for hackers poking around at things and finding ways around problems computer security would be **** and half the things computers do today wouldnt happen. the oldschool hackers found better and more efficient ways to do things and solve problems, not break into company computers for money.

oops almost forgot, programmers hack software almost daily when fixing problems or bugs (its a common misconception that you have to go online to hack when you dont have to, you can be a software hacker).
i dont think there breaking into anything but code that they are fixing, and im pretty sure no company loses money from that either.

Quote:

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Originally posted here by gore
hmmm, ok, so you download kazaa (which is free) and people use it to download software that actually costs money for free... umm ok.

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Couldn't agree with you more. Why worry about "stealing" ad revenues going to the company when all you use the software for is to steal copyrighted material?

Gore... Good job not letting that one slide by!

I think this got somewhat off topic somewhere along the line.
I understand that YES, Kazaa users usually use it to download copyrighted material, which has been well and truly covered. I mean, EVERYONE has talked about that, I didn't want to cover the same ground already covered a million times...
I just wondered if using a program that uses someone elses network without actually being affiliated with that network, was considered unethical.
It wasn't meant to be related to Law, Or "Hacking" in the sense that you use it, It was merely meant to be an ethical question that related to computing.

Thats why it was in General Chitchat, and not any of the other forums, where it wouldn't make sense...

I thought that any program/package can use any network they please...

what does WinMX run off of?

(edit because of typo...)

Quote:

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Originally posted here by broken_bloom
I think this got somewhat off topic somewhere along the line.
I understand that YES, Kazaa users usually use it to download copyrighted material, which has been well and truly covered. I mean, EVERYONE has talked about that, I didn't want to cover the same ground already covered a million times...
I just wondered if using a program that uses someone elses network without actually being affiliated with that network, was considered unethical.
It wasn't meant to be related to Law, Or "Hacking" in the sense that you use it, It was merely meant to be an ethical question that related to computing.

Thats why it was in General Chitchat, and not any of the other forums, where it wouldn't make sense...

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Understood. I was trying to make the point that I wouldn't have any sympathy for Kazaa's network being "used" by others. If, however, there was a P2P network set up by a company for a legitimate purpose, I, personally, would think that the use of that network would be unethical. Just my opinion! :-)

Hacking has nothing to do with either money, nor making a a name for one's self or company. It has to do with learning and pushing ones own knowledge as far as one can push them self. A hammer is a tool as is a computer just a tool how one uses the tool and with what skill and for what purpose, make things better or distroy, kill or mame. All these things use the same tools. Kazzalite is a non profit p2p program, my son uses it and has burned more music CD's that litter his bedroom floor. This tells me music is disposable to him, unlike me that buys CD's makes a copy for my car and my wife's car like I'd keep original CD's in a car (this is called fair use) My son on the other hand pays for nothing for music the artist makes nothing for his works and it is discarded onto floor such is the value of the art of music. I think not, everyone here if they do not have a job, at one point in life they will and one needs to make a living, be it music, painting, buildings the trades, or program. World we live in costs money and nothing in life is free, if it were then it would not be life as we all must live need food shelter and a means to produce in our choosen area. The web was designed as an open area not unlike a libaray where information is freely exchanged, we pay for book for the library through taxes, the Web was funded by Taxes and now having payed all my taxes for almost 50 years to pay for all of this some dot com wants to turn the entire space from public ownership to private profit. Fact is we have payed for the web being built, and ownership belongs only to people that provide a service or product I want to spend my money on. Free is only for kids think mom or dad have what they do cause they got it for free? Nope they work their butts off to give you a chance of a better life not have their past struggles. Hacking is the quest for knowledge and self improvement and actually making things better, not exploiting just cause one can.

As Zaggy said in an earlier post, the "terms of use" of "K-Lite" states that:
The Site www.k-lite.tk, its Administrators, staff and associates; are in no way
affiliated or connected with the creators of KaZaA Lite, nor the creators of KaZaA
and its owner Sharman Network.

This obviously states that they aren't affiliated with KaZaA in any way shape or form. So any use of the KaZaA network would be unethical. To use the KaZaA network, you accept a EULA before it will ever let you install the KaZaA products. By accepting that agreement, KaZaA grants you access to their network to download and share. While I'm sure that K-Lite also has an agreement along the same lines, it still isn't the agreement posted by KaZaA.

Now, the larger question at hand is....Does KaZaA have any legal recourse to there network being compermised by unapproved individuals and a company that freely distributes a "hacked" version of their software? Correct me if I'm wrong, I don't believe that KaZaA is open source, so more then likely the software is copywrited in way or another. Would this constitute copywrite infringement?

No,i dont think it is stealing because kazaa are not making it clear to the users downloading there programme to the spywear and for the other programmes it installs and the intention to what it actually does i did a scan of my system with AD-AWARE ( http://www.lavasoft.de ) and pestpatrol (http://www,pestpatrol.com ).AD-AWARE found loads of spywear installed throughout my system and pestpatrol found a trojan called KDE or something which said it lets kazaa take control of my computer.It does explain in there license agreement what actually gets installed but its a very long license agreement with small text that most programmes have.What sort of person would read a very long license agrement of small text?
Just my $00.02
~RedAlert

I understand what you're saying and whoheartedly agree that Kazaa's use of spyware/etc, if not disclosed, is unethical. However just because Kazaa's actions may be unethical does not mean you have a right to do whatever you want to their system. Like I said in an earlier post, I'd probably not be too sympathetic towards Kazaa (of any other company that could be acting unethically), but that doesn't mean I can then ethically hack their system.

As for me and my $.02, I've always been taught that two wrongs don't make a right.

(No refunds on that $.02 - I can't afford it!)

No,i dont think it is stealing because kazaa are not making it clear to the users that are downloading there programme to the spywear it contains and for the other programmes it installs and the intention to what it actually does i did a scan of my system with AD-AWARE ( http://www.lavasoft.de ) and pestpatrol (http://www,pestpatrol.com ).AD-AWARE found loads of spywear installed throughout my system and pestpatrol found a trojan called KDE or something which said it lets kazaa take control of my computer.It does explain in there license agreement what actually gets installed but its a very long license agreement with small text that most programmes have.You should but how many people here read a very long license agrement of small text for every programme they install?
Just my $00.02
~RedAlert