This really pisses me off....

I came across this article in the NY Times today, and it quiet frankly pissed me off. 99.9999% of the businesses operating in the world today have so much competition that they have low margins, usually in the neighborhood of 15 to 25% (estimate). Microsoft, however, is an alarmingly different story. Their margins from the Windows division are 85% ...an astronomical figure in anyones book. To put this in perspective using numbers filed last week with the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC), M$ had $2.89 BILLION dollars in sales of its Windows products (XP, 2000, ME), of which $2.48 BILLION was PURE PROFIT. They took a product that cost them $410 million to produce and resold it for $2.98 billion. They RIPPED OFF every consumer, every enterprise, every government agency that they dealt with, bar none, all because they have an illegal monopoly. I don't have the Office numbers in front of me at the moment, but they basically reflect the same obscene pattern of consumer rape that is evidenced in the Windows numbers. Judge Penfeild was right...this monster needs to be broken up, and until it is WE (with the exception of th *nix and mac folks) are the ones who have to pay the price.

NOTE TO BILL: I realize that you have a RIGHT to make a profit....but if you insist on SCREWING me, you could at least give me a kiss every once in a while, and it would be nice if you spent some of your billions on vaseline too.

but you realize that they lost money in almost every other division over at MS right? I dunno... it's all about capitalizm. It's what the market will support right now. One day MS will crash back down though.




El Diablo

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Originally posted here by El Diablo
but you realize that they lost money in almost every other division over at MS right? I dunno... it's all about capitalizm. It's what the market will support right now. One day MS will crash back down though.




El Diablo

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Oh yeah, I realize that is true, but given that I don't use MSN, Great Plains software, Windows CE/Mobility, etc., I tend to object PAYING for them anyway. My opinion is that if you are going to be a software vendor, then be a software vendor. If you want to be an ISP then great, be an ISP. But if you want to be both, then make each pay its own way. How would you feel if you had to pay an extra 20 grand for a Buick just because Chevrolet isn't turning a profit?

funny that you use that analogy... because most of the time you are paying that exta 5-6k because of the failing arms of GM. Look at Oldsmobile and Pontiac as examples. They were floated for YEARS by GM by turning a profit on their other lines and sinking that money in to Olds and Pontiac for R&D :)


But I understand your point, just I don't think there is anything to really be upset about. If you don't like the fact that MS is turning a huge profit in one of their divisions the only way to let them know it is to stop purchasing their products.



El Diablo

easy, id buy a pontiac 70 GTO Judge =) hehe, soory its off topic buut anyway i see his point, they do charge to much, Windows XP for example, 300 dollars for the full version of pro....thats not cool, id say around 200 maybe 150 dollars would be a better price, i heard somewhere that they give win95 away on the website microsoft.com but im not to sure about that, can anyone imagine if they still marketed XENIX? there UNIX flavor before they went to dos...well, bought dos. and 500 dollars for office XP is a bit XPensive too but i need it and i use it alot in college, its really nice but that price could be cut a bit too. i think if they could release an OS with the support for games and hardware and ease of use that windows 98SE has and have more reliability like windows2,000 and UNIX and Linux and be secure like that to, they could price that however they wanted and id buy that, because i like 98SE it serves its purpose and lets me do what i need to get done and honestly doesnt crash that often...well for me anyway, but if they could keep that GUI and give you a choice to use the ones in 2,000 and XP (kinda like a theme) and have better sopport and reliability and stay stable i think theyd have a way better reputation, cause it seems to me if you want to play games go for 98SE, just about every game is supported on that but 2,000 wont play very many, and also increase the ability of plug and play they wouldnt need a monoploy, because i myself and many others would prolly love to be able to plug it in and its recognized right away and just add drivers from the cd or even better have most common drivers already included and have Ofiice XP come with it. can you imagine how great this could be? ok iv been rambling on and on so im gunna give mty idea hrer in plain easy to read format:
Windows XX:
loads faster,
more reliable
can be left on for years without needing a reboot,
as soon as a peice of hardware is plugged in its recognized and installed,
very secure, doesnt allow the spread of viruses by asking you if things can access certain devices (almost like a built in firewall)
very compatible with games and software (sorry but id love it if you could run MACOSX and UNIX and Linux and beOS things in windows sometimes,
complete Office XP suit included,
stability is a huge issue, id want true memory protection,
and not having to reboot after an install is a good thing,
include drivers for most hardware devices,
a complete development tool kit (Linux does it for free why can they?)
Video and multimedia software (gotta compete with MAC people)
the option to use a GUI or a command line (some people like both like i do and some hate typing and some hate graphics lol)
a web server included,
ok im prolly pipe dreaming but if these things came together id buy it in a heartbeat. sorry for making such a long post guys but i wanted to get out my ideas.

Microsoft is what it is,an OS that crashes alot and for the most part isn't worth all the money that they (MS)
charges you for it.I personally use linux (SuSE) and can honestly say that since the first day that I bought
my computer home (3 years ago)one of the first things that I did was format and install linux and I have yet
to have 1 single crash or any software problem at all with linux.I found myself now after 3 years with linux
having to learn M$ system only because I had to in order to pass my M$ cert.
Alot of people dont care much for M$ company and Bill Gates but you have to give that man his props
because of what he has managed to do with his company,alot of big companys dont play fare and never will.
It's a world that's all about money and you dont get to the top by being Mr.nice guy,you only get stepped on and over.Do you think that Donald Trump or any other whealthy buisness person male or female got where they are today by being nice ?.If you do then I want to sell you a bridge.
It's all about the benjamins and it always will be,it's a have and have not world and say what you want about Bill Gates but you must also say that he has what we all want.I think he earned every bit of what he's acomplised and that in it of itself deserves some respect.No one gave him M$,he built that up from scratch and I dont think that anyone government or whomever has the right to tell him how to run his buisness.
Bottom line is that if you dont like M$ then dont buy the product,what better way to protest than buy not putting money in Bills pocket.

Sincere

dhej looks at his Macintosh PowerBook w/ MacOS X 10.2.2 and smiles.

Then looks at M$ Office X and frowns.

Then looks at M$ IE and scowls.

Then looks at AIM and barfs, but for a different reason all together.

Unfortunately I bought Office 98, got a free (legal!) upgrade to Office 2001, and then upgraded to Office X. So I actually have paid like 4-500 dollars for Office X.

Just don't make me think of how much of my money M$ got from me for my PC..., though once I get it back from my Mom and my Sis it is turning into a Linux box so that I can once again sleep soundly.

dhej

Linux...the other white meat.

Yeap,
and also the free stuff that comes with it !
On the other hand could you imagine being a sysad for a whole network and having to exlain why there are multi processes running for real on the*nix box to all the commercials ? lol

Now I realy don't understand why microsoft is so against illegal copying of their software.
Even with the illegal copying (free advertisment if you ask me) they manage to make a 85% margin...

Well, not off of my back.. I have a 100% free system, dualbooting OpenBSD and Linux and have no intentions what so ever to switch back.

The only windows I use is on my parent's box (came with XP pro installed) and at work (98SE)

I paid for my xp home and the wife got xp pro. She installed hers a month or two ago, I put mine in last February as a test. If it worked, she would follow. I haven't had a freeze or a crash, but have noticed that, after 9 months, it's much slower to boot in the morning and very slow to shut down lately. I figure that's typical Windoze. Hers loads and closes three times faster, but it won't last. Our computers have roughly two years left, and we're going with Macs.

In the meantime, the old 486 that we network through, running Slackware just purrs on and on. A year now and never a hiccup. It stays on 24/7 while we shut ours down at the end of the day. I paid less than $30 for the Slack Linux, and total of almost $400 for the 2 Windoze. Something is very wrong with that picture but, I'm the fool who doled out the money, so I guess I'm what's wrong.

Luckily for me I am going to school where I have been able to get all versions of losedoze for $5. I haven't paid more for losedoze since I got lose95 with a pc I bought way back when.

I just hope I have found replacements for all the apps I really love on losedoze on linux so I can make the ultimate switchover and roundfile m$ for good!!

well,
Hopefully it won't be to long before the linux community makes their already fantastic OS a viable product for the basic user, and compatible with the extensively used M$ Office file formats.
when that day comes the evil empire will come crashing down...

If the day comes that linux works a way to make ms software compatible, and it becomes user friendly for those folks who just want to turn on a computer and use it, like Windoze, and if the price of linux stays cheap, watch ms cut the price of their stuff in half or more.

Actually Apple has already done it, if they weren't so expensive. The OSX is bsd with the Apple GUI. Price or not, we're making the move when our PC's go to the big computer in the sky.

Allenb1963 is right and El Diablo is also correct. I have to say that M$ is making too much money from us and Bill Gates, is always attempting a monoply. The last major monopoly that he attempted, the U.S Supreme Court stopped him right on his tracks. He tries to make some products that will not work without another real important product, which you have to buy seperately. So this is my point, M$ can make all the money now by making and pulling smalling time monopoly, but one day they will fall to their feet because of the presents of another major emerging company.

This company is speak off may be mine or a friend of mine that is known as Spyder32:D.

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Originally posted here by ebo
Allenb1963 is right and El Diablo is also correct. I have to say that M$ is making too much money from us and Bill Gates, is always attempting a monoply. The last major monopoly that he attempted, the U.S Supreme Court stopped him right on his tracks. He tries to make some products that will not work without another real important product, which you have to buy seperately. So this is my point, M$ can make all the money now by making and pulling smalling time monopoly, but one day they will fall to their feet because of the presents of another major emerging company.

This company is speak off may be mine or a friend of mine that is known as Spyder32:D.

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ebo> What teh hell?

.. Anyways, as much as I don't like Microsoft, I don't think he is TRYING to make software that sucks. All software/programs have bug's, his just tend to have the bigger ones and more of them. Yes, I do believe that it is a crime for Microsoft to charge people to use their services, but they try to make their software secure and bug-free. Emphasis on the try there.

If M$ ever decide to spend as much time developing as they do thinking of ways to srew their customers out of more money, they might have a half decent product!

meh... I don't know alot about buisness and stuff, but I say, "whatever makes the money."
Microsoft was fortunate to make this much dough in this one product and where everything else failed. I think it balances everything out.

I'm afraid I have to go against the grain here somewhat. If MS is making 85% profit on their software, does that mean they're an evil company, or are they just very good salespeople? Bill Gates is running a business, not a soup kitchen. The main criticism against MS is that their products have many bugs, and if they spent more time developing rather than pushing the product out the door, they wouldn't have such a low opinion in some circles. OK, that's fair enough, but put yourself in MS's position. You have the number one OS on the planet in terms of users. The vast majority of these users have trouble setting the time on a VCR. They want something easy and friendly. These people are going to get themselves into situations that MS probably never even imagined. If you sell cheese to 500 people in your town, chances are a few won't care much for it. Sell your cheese to 500,000,000 people, and see how many complaints you get.

You can't compare Linux to MS. That's like comparing Rolls Royce to General Motors. If Rolls Royce has 100,000 customers, General Motors has 100,000,000. Do you ever hear of Rolls Royce on the evening news with a recall? Didn't think so. Linux developers can sit back and think what will be popular or useful 3-4 years from now. MS has to double that figure just due to the size of their customer base.

Linux is said to be a very stable OS, with very few known bugs. Distribute Linux to 25% of the planet, and see how quickly that previous statement erodes.

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If MS is making 85% profit on their software, does that mean they're an evil company, or are they just very good salespeople?

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It isn't too hard to sell something when you use strongarmed tactics to impress upon ANYONE who has the ability to foster competition that you have the ability to put them out of business. When you have vendors who are afraid to offer an alternative because they know that their licensing terms will be renegociated in an unfavorable manner if they do. Thats not good salemanship, thats mob tactics.

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Originally posted here by allenb1963


It isn't too hard to sell something when you use strongarmed tactics to impress upon ANYONE who has the ability to foster competition that you have the ability to put them out of business. When you have vendors who are afraid to offer an alternative because they know that their licensing terms will be renegociated in an unfavorable manner if they do. Thats not good salemanship, thats mob tactics.

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That's very true and I definitely agree. Microsoft has been and is known to "play dirty" when it come's to competition. They know that Linux is coming up with alot of the percentage these days and when you have a license to all the major computer companies/developers and won't let anyone rise up, then that's not being a good salesperson. IMHO, they should allow competition for one reason: With competition, you try harder to outdo each other and in this, it would be by giving it your all into your every product, which obviously, make's for a better product. But, I guess Microsoft doesn't like it that way.

If Linux was in Microsofts position, do you think they would act any differently? Right now MS is King of the Mountain, and they're playing hardball because they know everyone wants to knock them off. These vendors who distribute MS products have a choice. If they think MS is shafting the customer, then cut your ties with MS and sell something else. The only thing "forcing" them to sell MS products is customer demand.

Look at business's like Wal-Mart or Home Depot. These companies are monstrous. They've put more people out of work than employed. Mom & Pop and small town stores can't compete against these places. Why go to Jimmies Vacuum Shop and pay $600 when you can go to Wal-Mart and pay $450.

Only Microsofts arrogance will be their downfall, and right now the consumer is overlooking that for ease of use.

Everyone knows that Mercedes Benz builds a superior car to Ford. But the factor between the two is price. Linux may be 100x more stable than MS, but the factor between those two is basic knowledge of computers which the vast majority do not have at the moment. As more and more people become "computer aware", perhaps MS's dominance will start to fade as more and more people opt for stability rather than ease of use.

I feel that it is now that I shall ask everyone a simple question. At my college, a student can buy a legal copy of office xp for $20 and windows xp pro for $10. Looking on Best Buys website I found the price for these products is $300 for xp pro and $550 for office xp pro. My question to you is such; Is M$ making a profit from selling their software at such low prices, and if so how much?
To all of you who can not get the deal on M$ software that I and other students can, I have one thing to say.... :p

I read an article a few days a go (forget where) but anyways it stated that even if they sold windows for $30 m$ would still turn a profit.

I have never understood exactly why Microsoft was the only company that ever made an attempt to develope a GUI ( os2 hmm ?) around the IBM PC format. Even IBM failed to see the potential in the PC (actually tried to stall PC sales to move higher end mainframes) until later.

Gates really laid the ground work for what was yet to come by offering MS DOS for such a low price both for the PCand to software developers. He then made the change to TCP/IP and abandoned NetBooty. Almost overnight, he created the demand for the Windows PC and everyone else been trying to follow their lead ever since.

So now we have a GIANT in our midst...me I use LINUX RedHat and FreeBSD

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Originally posted here by cwk9
I read an article a few days a go (forget where) but anyways it stated that even if they sold windows for $30 m$ would still turn a profit.

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Well, I don't know about you... but if I had the choice of making 10X that profit, I'd sure as hell take it....

However you look at it, Microsoft is a company.. Companies, in general, provide goods and services.... in return for these goods and services, we (the people) give these companies money... That is what these 'companies' aim for.. To make those lovely little green notes *or other colours, depending on where you live*...
If you think its too much, don't buy it.....

If it offends you that they would ask you to pay $X00 for an office suite... Write a letter... Not to anyone in particular, just get a pen and paper, and write that tender that could earn you a $15,000 bonus at the end of the year... I'm sure it will impress the people so very much, that they will respect your decision to boycott the Evil Empire, that they will still accept the handwritten document, with coffee stains from where you fell asleep and bumped the cup because you were up so long writing the document because its really been years since you really wrote something by hand.....

hmmm, I'm raving again....

Personally Allen I think there products are too expensive also.They always go on about piracy and yet they make a bundle.Make it more affordable and the rest will follow.It is a lot like AMD and INTEL.There is so many people all over the world,who would like to get computer literate but cannot even afford a basic computer.They then still have to pay a heafty amount of money just to get the system going,winxp,2000 or whatever the case maybe.What about all the rest of the software they have to get once they decided what they want to go into.It all comes down to one thing MONEY!!.

Make it affordable for everyone!!!They can only benefit from it.Put a smile on somebody else's face,and it will surely be returned.

regards
vanman:)

I have SuSE Linux and have had few problems. The worst thing about Linux of the past was driver support. I got tired of reverse engineering drivers just to have sound. But, thankfully most of your commercial flavors of Linux now have great driver support. In fact, Red Hat 8.0 had a driver for my video card, and XP didn't.

But even though Linux is a beautiful OS, the main computers in households and offices are powered by Windows. That's going to be hard to change. It would cost time and money for each company to train their employees on how to use Linux. And big business just doesn't want to spend that money.