Question of Opinion...

If you keep up with my journal, you know already that life has been pretty hard to handle these days. Suicidal tendancies and waves of rage that keep coming. The thought that plauges me is this.....

I ask you the reader, IF, there truly is NO God, or Savior, or life after death, and when we die, we simply die into blank non-existance. What in the hell is the point of coping with the pain of life anyways? If there is no reward to it in the end. Only non-existance....

The simple answers would be love, hope, reproduction...ect... But how is any of this relevant when your dead. All these great things that happened to you in your life, and all these great things you did, mean nothing to you. Because your simply not existing.

I have had the mindset of an athiest l8ly, how do you cope with it? How does one get up every morning knowing his life is meaningless.


If there truly are no continues. Game Over.

I think about things like this all the time

What if when we die, we cease to exist, no afterlife, no second level of conciousness, nothing...

All I tell you, and this I tell myself, is that to take in every moment of this life, savor it and try to make as big of an impact in life and in lives of others....

Some people live without living, making it more like surviving.

I say take the time to savor these moments...
Stop and smell the roses....

Try and put as much happyness as you can, no matter how down you or others get....

You are not your body. You are not your mind. You have always been here. You will always be here. The 1st law of thermodynamics states that, basically, nothing can actually be created or destroyed, merely converted into different forms. I know deep down this is as true of consciousness as it is of everything else. It's like the old buddhist proverb about the wave in the ocean who fears crashing on the beach. If he sees himself as a wave he is terrified. But he is actually WATER. Once he realizes that, there is no fear. So it goes with matter, energy and consciousness. Ego makes us feel seperate, even though we are only a imperminent slice of the universal whole. This isn't religion or philosophy, it's just how it is. Just do your job, and worry about nothing. There aren't any ends any more then there are any beginnings.

Peace Dr Toker.

Dr Toker,

Wow man!!! I prefer not to think about this, more when NO ONE can say what will happen after death. Now what, i'll just enjoy my life the best i can. Girls, computers, sports, parties, fun... and work because i don't want to die yet and i need the money to eat and dress my self... and to have fun too!!!

Bye.

Dr. Toker, I've read your journal and have seen the pain you've expressed through verse. I am a religious person and won't argue or comment on religion. But the pain you speak of....it passes. It really does. Sometimes things can be so painful and we can be so close to the subject that we can't see it for what it really is...clearly, and objectively. The important thing to know is that NOTHING is worth giving up on life. These "painful" situations...even the ones that seem to go on and on are only temporary. The pain will pass.

Quote:

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[1] The words of the Preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem.
[2] Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.
[3] What profit hath a man of all his labour which he taketh under the sun?
[4] One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.
[5] The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.
[6 ] The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits.
[7 ] All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again.
[8] All things are full of labour; man cannot utter it: the eye is not satisfied with seeing, nor the ear filled with hearing.
[9 ] The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

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http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/k...1&byte=2546945

I used to sit in the dark hours of the night, coming down from
an acid trip, exhausted, looking at the vanity of life and
wondering the same as you.

If there is no ultimate meaning, it really is an icy cold
eternal night, alone.

It is one thing for a man of faith to struggle with his doubts
and fears, and another thing entirely to hate and reject the
creator. You have my prayers, man.
:cool:

Hey Dr. Toker, I'm not really a religious person. The only time I go to church is on Christmas. The only reason why I want to live longer is because...well, to have fun. In essence, life is all about enjoying the short time you have on this green earth. I was lucky enough to be born so I am taking advantage of it and enjoying every minute of it.

life is life, it is what you make of it. regardless of whats after, jsut enjoy life while its here, youll know in time, everyone dies.

Deep subject matter here Dr Toker. Life after death? No way to prove or disprove either which makes it obvious as to why religion is based on faith and beliefs. As doctorf00bar pointed out, nothing can be created or destroyed (as we understand physics), and energy falls into this catagory also. While we as humans are technically a collection of minerals and water (our basic components), we also host energy. We see, we think, we feel....all because of electrical impulses that course through our bodies powering our nervous systems, generating and processing thoughts in our brains. When we die, that energy doesn't just disappear...it does not cease to exist.

I do have religious beliefs, but I'm not going to air them here. I will say that I can reconcile my religious side and my scientific side though. I tend to equate our existence here on this earth with the life cycle of the butterfly. The larval stage would be likened to being a fetus in the womb, then birth moves us into a "caterpillar" state where we grow and develop into adults. Death then becomes the cocoon from which we emerge for the next stage of existence as a "butterfly", so to speak. Sound far fetched? Maybe so...blame it on whatever you choose, but its the point of view that I have....nothing about our universe is random....not even the chaos theory. Everything and everyone has a place and a purpose.

Dr Toker, you just keep on keepin' on....the pain and angst you feel today makes you into a better person tomorrow. In the future you may well be able to assist someone who is going thru circumstances not unlike your own because you've been there yourself. And IF you do something like that, you do achieve a sort of immortality...if you can help bring a positive change and make a difference in the life of one person, then you affect their entire lineage from that point forward. As an example....by talking one person thru a suicidal episode, you might facilitate the birth of a great leader sometime in the future who would have never existed if that person had not lived.

I'm done rambling on now.....I hope that someone finds this helpful. and if someone reads this and laughs, thinking that Al is crazy as a loon, thats fine too....I made them smile, so I made a difference. ;)


<edit> Suicide is nothing more than a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

Im deeply into spiritualism , and i think i know the answer, the theory that i believe.
A similiar thread i had posted in an MSN group, where i had got a very vague, or lets say , undecipherable answer. I dont know if the person was trying to act very smart or what , but i didnt understand what the hell was happening. Typing my viewpoint is going to take time, i will though.

Here's the link for now :


http://groups.msn.com/TheSpiritsRoom..._Message=14103

hmmm, wow, touchy subject, Well man ill tell you this, if youv ever looked at my wrists or talked to friends of mine iv tried commiting suicide about 4 times, i ususally just pass out and wake up with dried blood on my wrists, iv also o/d about 122 times now, to be honest, instead of o/d i just pop a few vicodin and the depresseion goes away (yea it might only be temporary but ususally the reason im depressed is to so it evens out, trust me man, if you live, youll regret it badly because usully after going threw a bad time, you go threw a great one, so give it more time, and go to the Dr and say your back is killing you and get some opiates, youll love it and youll feel way better.

i don't know man!!i really don't know.i used to read a lot about those things in the past.but i couldn't come to an end.this is an endless quest and i thing it's pointless too.i prefer to take advantage of any single moment of my life.this is my aspect of life.some things are beyond our knowledge,so why keep trying to find some answers?i don't believe in any human's god.but also i am not saying that there is no god at all.i just say:hey guys i don't know.isn't it fool to say that there is no god when you don't know the truth?or to say that there is god and his name is allah,moameth,jesus......so i am just saying that i keep a neutral position on those things.just live your life in a way that is filled with love,respect and truth.

that's it.

MAY THE KNOWLEDGE BE WITH US.

gore why have you done this?this reminds me of a song:

life is hell and then you die,
so better speed it up with knife.

i respect that you have the freedom of choice,but don't you think that it worths giving yourself one more chance and try reconsidering they way you live?why try killing yourself?life is so precious and we are too young to say that we are bored with it.just find some other ways to express yourself or to kill your time and i'm sure that you will definitely feel much more better.

who is to say what life will bring you in 4 or 5 years now. of course some parts of life will not be the best time or the most fun however other parts will, its all to do with how you can handle the good with the bad. Dont give up and soon enought you will be having a great time again

At first when I read your post, I had no idea what I wanted to express, rather no idea how to put it into words. I am still not sure I do but what the hell.

In a state of depressio, everything seems hopeless and no end in sight. If you have it within yourself to walk a mile in someone else's shoes, look around and see the plight of many that do not choose the mess their lives are in. Suicide is easiest for the one dying. The ones left behind are the ones you choose to hurt. For that is exactly what you do when you committ suicide, you hurt the ones that love you and that would give anything to help you out of your depression.

As for is there life after death, I have wondered this many times myself and of course, having not died, I do not know the answer. I hope that there is some form of life after death, that my body will remain of this earth and my spirit will be lifted elsewhere. If not though, when I die I will not care because I will be dead, and if that is all there is is death, so be it. It is what I do while I am here alive that counts.

A dear friend is awaiting a heart transplant, he has to live with the fact that in order for him to live, someone else must die. Does that mean he feels he shouldn't live? No, now that he is faced with death on a daily basis, he is desperate to cling to live. When your darkest hour appears, all that is truly important will become clear.

Don't despair Dr. Toker, there is good in your life, take the time to realize that each day is a gift, and when it becomes your time, you will learn if there is life after death. Until then, enjoy the mystery of life and celebrate the fact that as a person on this earth, you are a gift to the many that know and love you.

Dr Token,

I think we are here to help one another and make each other feel loved because life is really stupid. I didn't read your journal and I'm sure you have your reasons to feel this way. I've also been called suicidal but I am getting help and it does feel better sometimes. You shouldn't be ashamed to seek help and by sharing this here with us strangers, it means you are seeking out. Lucky for me I have a sister who is a psychologist and I don't think she will sleep if I stop seeing my therapist. So I have no choice. If you don't have money for that talk to your friends. There's always someone who wants to listen. If life is pointless, death is even more stupid. Don't give up on us because we might need you someday!!

I would like to thank the people who negged me saying "great advice, retard... " and
"dude..this is bad advice, I don't know how this could help."

First, of course you dont understand how this would help, have you ever been suicidal? i dont think anyone had a right to judge my post unless they themselves had been suicidal, the past two days iv done things to help people including going to work on my day off and its sad that i wouldv had less peoblems if i wouldv just stayed out of it and stayed home, i just hope that DR toker saw in my post that i was showing him iv been like that to befre and that he shouldnt do it (somehow thats bad avice to someone on here) and that theres still hope and that he shouldnt do anything he would regret...and as for the nice advice retard...hmmm, if it wasnt good advice..I WOULDNT BE HERE RIGHT NOW TO REPLY TO THIS, so obviously it worked, but since we have non believers, im gunna copy and past something now:

"Homer conveys its effects in The Odyssey. In one episode, Telemachus is depressed after failing to find his father Odysseus. But then Helen...
"...had a happy thought. Into the bowl in which their wine was mixed, she slipped a drug that had the power of robbing grief and anger of their sting and banishing all painful memories. No one who swallowed this dissolved in their wine could shed a single tear that day, even for the death of his mother or father, or if they put his brother or his own son to the sword and he were there to see it done..."

"In some parts of the contemporary Middle East, chilled glasses of poppy tea are served to mourners at funerals to ease their grief."

"Physicians commonly believed that the poppy plant was of divine origin; opium was variously called the Sacred Anchor Of Life, Milk Of Paradise, the Hand Of God, and Destroyer Of Grief. Thomas Sydenham, the 17th-century pioneer of English medicine, writes....
"Among the remedies which it has pleased Almighty God to give to man to relieve his sufferings, none is so universal and so efficacious as opium."


"This may be overstating God's benevolence; but by relieving emotional as well as physical pain, opiates have been understandably popular. Robert Burton, scholar, priest and author of Anatomy of Melancholy, commended laudanum - essentially opium dissolved in wine - for those who were insomniacs...
"...by reason of their continual cares, fears, sorrows, dry brains [which] is a symptom that much crucifies melancholy men..."

Indeed opium was probably the world's first authentic antidepressant. "

hmmm... yea that sounds horrible for someone suffering from depression doesnt it....

"While I was sitting at tea, I felt a strange sensation, totally unlike any thing I had ever felt before; a gradual creeping thrill, which in a few minutes occupied every part of my body, lulling to sleep the before-mentioned racking pain, producing a pleasing glow from head to foot, and inducing a sensation of dreamy exhilaration (if the phrase be intelligible to others as it is to me) similar in nature but not in degree to the drowsiness caused by wine, though not inclining me to sleep; in fact far from it, that I longed to engage in some active exercise; to sing, dance, or leap...so vividly did I feel my vitality - for in this state of delicious exhilaration even mere excitement seemed absolute Elysium - that I could not resist the tendency to break out in the strangest vagaries, until my companions thought me deranged...After I had been seated [at the play I was attending] a few minutes, the nature of the excitement changed, and a 'waking sleep' succeeded. The actors on the stage vanished; the stage itself lost its reality; and before my entranced sight magnificent halls stretched out in endless succession with galley above gallery, while the roof was blazing with gems, like stars whose rays alone illumined the whole building, which was tinged with strange, gigantic figures, like the wild possessors of lost globe...I will not attempt farther to describe the magnificent vision which a little pill of 'brown gum' had conjured up from the realm of ideal being. No words that I can command would do justice to its Titanian splendour and immensity..."

yea that doesnt sound good at all does it......

"The opioid analgesics are of inestimable value because they reduce or abolish pain without causing a loss of consciousness. They also relieve coughs, spasms, fevers and diarrhea."

"If we could sniff or swallow something that would, for five or six hours each day, abolish our solitude as individuals, atone us with our fellows in a glowing exaltation of affection and make life in all its aspects seem not only worth living, but divinely beautiful and significant, and if this heavenly, world-transfiguring drug were of such a kind that we could wake up next morning with a clear head and an undamaged constitution-then, it seems to me, all our problems (and not merely the one small problem of discovering a novel pleasure) would be wholly solved and earth would become paradise."
ALDOUS HUXLEY
1894 – 1963


"Not only do sufferers of chronic pain and narcotic addicts stand to benefit from such harm reduction approaches but, by decreasing drug-associated crimes, a significant area of the true “drug problem” can be directly addressed, thereby benefiting society as a whole."

I think the above speaks for itself......and for goodness sake if your going to neg me for this post to at least have the decency and common courtesy to at least read the entire post this time.

ok, i thought about this for a lil bit, im going to take this like a man, i got negged and negged again, but, obviously some of you actually appreciate the fact that im here, so, im done with whining about the post i made earlier, im still not to sure why people were so offended by it (if you were offended by it, would you please PM me, i wanna discuss this so i at least know what part bothered you...i thought i was helping) and to DR toker, man, as i said before, you dont wanna do that to yourself, one thing i can say is, find something that makes you happy, concentrate on that, and wait out whatevers bothering you, it WILL get better soon, and trust me man, iv said it before and ill say it again, i regret everytime i ever tried commiting suicide, i still look back and cant believe i did it, im glad im still alive, i give thanks every night for having myvision, my hearing, my abilities, my intelligence, and for being alive and getting threwthe day, honestly i was so selfish to ever think about suicide, not only would the people that cared be upset, but it was a really dumb idea that i still regret to this day, theres people in the world who dont have vision, hearing or who are diabled, they have it WAY WORSE than i do, and iv seen them happy, i still get angry at me for being so selfish because of that, and now i try getting out a smile and staying happy as possible, because i still have all these things, i just dont know how i got so selfish that i wanted to die when i already had it better than some people ever do, so , DR, please, think about this before you take a seriouse meassure, i dont personally know you but man no matter how much you think your hated, someone somewhere does love and care for you, (i have anxiety disorders so if people dont tell me they love me, i get depressed or think people hate me, but iv had to learn that it isnt true) and Dr toker i wish you luck and i hope you get threw this and i hope you get happy,also, i reccommend listening to lots of music, i dont know your tastes but at first listening to something like slipknot or old KORN for a few days to get the anger out can actually help, after that put in some good huored music, something like marilyn manson, NOFX and tool, artists that have a sence of humor, and hopefully youll get threw this.

Quote:

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Originally posted here by gore

First, of course you dont understand how this would help, have you ever been suicidal? i dont think anyone had a right to judge my post unless they themselves had been suicidal,

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I just want to go over this for a second and relate to you how retarded you are. Earlier you tell me to find a another temporary happiness, and focus on it. Then follow it up with a few vicoden, and maybe some opium. Don't you get it? I smoke marijuana like its going out of style.
I dont think adding more chemicals to the delicate balance that is my mind, is such a great idea.


Getting ****ed up and forgetting is only pushing the darkness deeper.(And that WAS your suggestion.)It stays there and ligers, until one day you find it looming over you in a evil embrace. And then the thoughts come...yeah man... Ive been there. And I am trying to move past it here. So i can judge. You said.

Quote:

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Originally posted here by gore i reccommend listening to lots of music, i dont know your tastes but at first listening to something like slipknot or old KORN for a few days to get the anger out can actually help, after that put in some good huored music, something like marilyn manson, NOFX and tool,

---

This again, seems to be the same road that got me here to this point,Gore. I still listen to korn occasionaly, but i find that John is having the same issues with hate and suicide, and over all evil inside. And on his CD, you can hear him LOSE the battle with this problem. Slipknot and Marilyn Manson, I dont even have to say anything. They are full of even more darkness than myself as it appear's. I'm trying to get away from the darkness, Gore. I have embraced it far too long.

This thread was going great, I was getting alot of opinions and it seemed to help. Made me feel better about the unaswerable questions. I am feeling a bit better now. Mu girl freind is being a great encouragement. I want to thank everyone who spoke up, even Gore, for showing me how I fall back into the same routine over and over.To everyone else, I really felt the passion in alot of your words, everyone. Thank you.

And Gore, you have been introduced to my ignore list, so dont even bother replying if you intend me to see it.

That which does not kill me, makes me stronger.

That, and good 75lbs. punching bag and you'll be just fine.

peace.....

Actually, if you wanted to get technical about it, you called him a moron, Opiates are not depressents, Pot is, iv been watching this thread and yes there was a lot of good things in here, but i also see that you all misread alot of things in there:
"Earlier you tell me to find a another temporary happiness, and focus on it. Then follow it up with a few vicoden, and maybe some opium. Don't you get it? I smoke marijuana like its going out of style." i dont see the word temporary next to happiness, except where he said the problems were ususally only temporary, I do see him saying you should find something that makes you happy and focus on that...Dont see a temporary next to that though...You know Pot messes with your sence of reality, maybe you should actuualy switch to opium like he said, that increases it, not distorts it, and then maybe you wouldv seen what that post really said any not misread it... just asuggestion (and honestly i dont care if you all play neg war with me like you did gore, i came here to learn and help teach others and share information with nice people that appreciate the lost art of Oldschool Hacking, so if I'm negged and banned, oh well, that would only show me that you people arent nice and therefore not worth sharing information with) I have always tried to help in my posts, Idont post questions because I dont have to many, i do reply to posts trying to help others in need, and when I came to this site and read those FAQs, I'm pretty sure that was also this sites purpose.

"Getting ****ed up and forgetting is only pushing the darkness deeper.(And that WAS your suggestion.)"

im reading his post and that wasnt the only suggestion...I'm reading his posts and seeing he was trying to help YOU in your dark hour the way people did it hundreds of years ago....He also suggested music, You on the other hand replied saying his suggestions were bad, but you forgot something, He said "I dont know your personal taste" maybe you should find a type of music that makes you happy and actually try that out? i get depressed but not that bad to whre i want to die, he suggested a band called NOFX, You might actually wanna jump back into reality and actually read these posts next time and listen to them, there fairly funny and make you feel good.... But then again you wouldv actually had to read the entire post and not misread everything to see that...I'v studied Psychology and to me, you were depressed and needed to be told you were cared for which you say your g/f is now giving you, thats good, thats what you need, but getting pissed never helps, think like this, whenever you get angry, your leaving a peice of it inside you, now, when your happy and have a posotive attitude, you clean away a peice of that negative energy, the more posostive energy you have, the more posotive you are and the greater person you become.

I also want to point out what KorpDeath said, They are completly right, if you can live through this, you can live through something mor and eventually, you can live through anything.

Remember though, being posotive is a key step...not calling people a retard.

The musical tastes that were said in this giant negative post werent exactly my type though, If I was depressed id would more than likely want some soothing techno on, or something like the Doors.

So in closing, the next time something like this happens, try not to be angry, and remember, it really helps to read, id hate to see your name in the papers for driving over a cliff because "You thought the sign said the cliff was a mile away". Proofreading can save a life, let it start with yours and Good lock to you in the future, I have faith that you will get through this and be a better person.

"When the evil in the world rises and comes for your soule,
The light of the world is the key to locking it in a hole,
And you must find this light, and use it in all you do." -Me.

Allen,ditto !!Dr.Token,the pain and only the pain will help you to know yourself.Would we know what the happiness is whithout knowing what the pain is ??Think about it.Happy New Year to all of you and thanx for the fun of reading your postings;quality indeed.walter

You live you die... Its the inevitable. Have you cured something, have you done something special in your life? Probably not, We are all just worthless beings. I hate to say it but the end is near. Do what you can when you can. I personally don't believe there is a god. When you die, you cease to exist. You go nowhere, and do nothing. This is just how I feel... Hope you get some advice.

-X

well ok.
but one more thing.
how can you be so sure?
who told you that there is no god?
and who told you that there is a god?
why are you so sure?
isn't it fool to say something you don't know if it's true or false?


ps:i'm not calling you a fool!i'm just trying to be helpful...............

I've spent the last three years of my life trying to figure out this question. My simple advice is thus: Appreciate life for all that it is and isn't. Go out and walk in the cold harsh rain, accept it because it is real, enjoy it for it awakens your senses when you feel cold and makes your warm home seem enviting when you return. Accept the good and the bad in the world for what they are. One cannot exist without another. Search for balance and truth in the world around you and the existance of God or Deities becomes irrelevant. Peace can be found within oneself, you just need to relax. I suggest you look at Daoist and Bhuddist philosophy. It will help, I should know. hope this helps. Hang in there, it's worth it.