For the young computer wizards..

Okay, straight to the point :

This is to all the people who're young, who are vociferously addicted to computers.
I'm myself a young chap, prefer not to disclose my age lol
Anyway, what i think is happening at my country, that is india, is that young people are aimlessly mad about computer gaming, cracking, etcetra and are spending 70% of their studying times on the computer. Now it is very obvious that if somebody uses windows for like 2 years , they would know everything about it, and if they are interested, maybe even more.
This leads them to falsely believe that they have a lot of knowledge on computers and that they arent wasting their time, instead when they should be studying.

Even if I talk besides normal users/script kiddies, and talk about ourselves, people who are serious about computers, i have heard about the high amount of competition even in the universities in the USA and Canada.

What my view here is that instead of spending most of our time reading TCP/IP tuts when we should be studying about the periodic table is no point at all. This doesnt mean that im sayin that the computer is evil, and we should stay away, just that we need to manage our time, because if we dont get grades in high school that we'd need to get into a good university, we wouldnt have, what they call a "great career", or even a reasonable one, because they need your academic prowess in your bio-data and not the amount of exploits that you discovered or made.

So, simply put, for the young people who are still studying, i suggest , because i have experienced this with myself lately, that we'll have to spend a limited time on the computer, and if we really love it so much that we aim to make it out profession, we would have to spend more time on our books and not here. Rather ironic, isnt it ?

But true.

Thats why i love college, i always have an excuse to be on the computer:) to be honest though man i know how that is, i hated high school, i got kicked out so i went and got a GED and then worked for a while before starting college, i love computers, it was like, well about 4 years ago i got my first computer with windows 95, i just played with everything untill ifigured out how it worked, after that i screwed it up badly and had to buy a new one (the one im typing on right now:) its my baby) this one has ran windows 98SE, windows 2,000 Pro, Linux red hat 6.1, Mandrake 7.1 or 2 i cant remember, BeOS, caldera Linux, free BSD (whoooo did that ever screw my MBR in the butt) and of course DOS. not to go of track but i have alot of respect for all OSs (except MAC OS and even then i have 3 forms of rspect for it, i have respect for it because steve wozniak used to build these in his garage, i have respect for them being the first GUI driven OS, and i have respect for the newer ones being based in FREE BSD), i have lots of respect to people that write OSs, i know a tiny bit about programming and to write an OS would be like an ultimate challenge, but i think some day i would like to have my own , lol could you imagine GORe OS, mine would be a mixture of different OSs, id have the easy to use interface of windows and MAC, the wizards that install drivwers for you like windows, the stability would be a mix of the BSD family and UNIx and Linux and BeOS, id make that thing so stable the only reason to turn it off would be adding another perice of hardware, id make it also have support for justa bout everything, i hate having to hunt down drivers so id create an advanced version of plug n play, it would be called plug and work.
and my OS would be awesome, it would be totally great with like, ok instead of logging in like normal, id have it so you could log in with your username and password and choose "Work" if your doing homework or at work, or "play" to do multimedia and stuff like that, so when you logged in it would be a different desktop, like people at workl could click work and all the tools they used the last time they logged in would start up, or for play there browser could be launched or some kinda image editor or whatever (im just tossin ideas around but this could go somewhere) anyway im done ramblin. but to summarize, if you like playing on the computer alot, go to college and get into the industry.

invader:
the problem u mention about young ppl playing with their 'puters instead of studying isn't really that big a problem.. I'm sure that most ppl with a big 'puter interest will find themselves choosing to test the kewl new prog they d/l'ed last night before studying.. and sometimes ppl forget to study... this can happen but it doesn't happen very often cuz if it did then maybe it would be time ask oneself if u made the right education choice... sometimes ppl temperarily loose their selfdiscipline but it's mostly only temporarily...
I differently.. I study first.. and then I might forget to go to sleep but that's not as important.. I still have time for studying and 'puter challenges :) the way life should always be :)

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this can happen but it doesn't happen very often cuz if it did then maybe it would be time ask oneself if u made the right education choice... sometimes ppl temperarily loose their selfdiscipline but it's mostly only temporarily... - zion1459

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wel zion, it's not temporary, that's the damned problem.
Once you're in the pit, it's difficult to come out.
Great to hear about your self-discipline though :thumbsup:

To contradict zion1459's message a lil' bit, I 've found that over the years sleep is important. I mean I'm still young, and yes, I tend to have to learn my lessons the hard way, but this is one lesson that I've learned. Sleep is essential for the mind to awaken. Now my mom always preached this cuz I would stay up to study for tests, not that I wasn't prepared, but that I wanted so badly to ace it. In fact, one time earlier this year, I stayed up til 3 studying for a History test, that when I got there my brain wasn't working. I erased 11 of the right answers and put wrong ones down, when I already had the right answer down....and when I got it back i was like WTF! I'm not trying to neg Zion, but trying to prove a point that sleep isn't as important as school-like he said-but still ranks up there as one of the top priorities that people tend to reluctantly think about.

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i have respect for them being the first GUI driven OS

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Xerox had the first GUI which was "borrowed".

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The very first graphical user interface was developed by the Xerox Corporation at their Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) in the 1970s. Steve Jobs, visited PARC in 1979 (after buying Xerox stock) and was impressed and influenced by the "Alto", the first computer ever with a graphical user interface.

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If you have not read about the Xerox Palo Alto labs you should. A herd of nerds sitting around on bean bag chairs building whatever struck their fancy. The first GUI, the first mouse, the first e-mail system, networked computers and even rudimentary voice recognition.

Xerox decided in their infinite wisdom that they were wasting their money and shut the research down. Bill Gates had also visited the parc and 'borrowed" a few ideas.

Invader, I think you make a good point. I myself am a computer science major, however it is at a liberal arts university. Therefore, and totally not to put down the technical / engineering schools cause those are sweet, I pretty much get what you're looking for: read lots of classics, study economics, physics, chemistry, astronomy, history, humanities, sociology, math, etc and still learn about (and get a degree in) computer science. While my classes have been cool and informative, they mostly suffer from academic theoritical concentration, rather than providing me with skills applicable in the real technical world. This is where learning on my own has come into play. I recently got a nice computer security job strictly from the skills I picked up by playing on my own. So what I say to you (new,young computer people in general) is just attempt to manage your time properly -- learn some cool computer stuff, learn to program / hack / whatever, but learn about the rest of the world as well, and don't forget time for socializing, sports, other hobbies (and women ;-) ).

I guess that's it. I wanted to get a post under my belt and hopefully I helped someone. Places like slashdot and google news are pretty cool for reading the headlines. Then, if you have time, try reading articles in various fields...you may actually like what's going on outside of computer science.

Peace,

Raz0rSharp

ive got a great career and i didnt even finish high school. Not everyone who studies and goes to uni will end up with a great career ( it may increase your chances) same as not everyone who doesnt do well at school will end up a bum. :)

tHERE ARE NO STUPID QUESTIONS, ONLY STUPID PEOPLE

-Mr garrison

A college is a college is a college. Great grades in high school doesn't assure you a top 10 spot, heck a 4.0 and a 1800 won't even get you into harvard. They turned down like half the people with that. The important thing is that you get an accredited degree and not where you get the degree. Sure you can bust your ass get into a state university get into some job which is a "great job." but you can also put in a half assed effort and go to a state college get a "good job." and the bonus is you didn't waste your youth.

Well, for me, it goes both ways, I'm in high school and it is a tech. school. For me, the studies come first because of the reason that I also have tech. courses. I myself is a computer enthusist and my interest being in school deepens my understanding of what priorities comes first. My school sends good students to IV league univ. here in the US and they have many programs that help you get there. It depends on the student because the courses are also strict in many schools, but if the person wants to major in the tech. area, then it is their choice. There was this one kid at my school who was a sophomore and he made more money than my CS teacher (just working weekends)*programming.
It really depends, but I would suggest studies first before any other things, it would help anyone get a lot out of life.

I think the point is that you need to be a well rounded person. There is nothing wrong with studying computers, but if that is all you know, how far would you get you in life?

JagFire19, good point , never happened that i wronged the right, but oh yeah, one must definitely sleep before an exam.

Magnoon, how is your post related to this ? :confused:

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ive got a great career and i didnt even finish high school. Not everyone who studies and goes to uni will end up with a great career ( it may increase your chances) same as not everyone who doesnt do well at school will end up a bum. - kni

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I don't think Bill Gates studied too much either, he was once the richest man in the world. Ain't talking about an exception but what happens to common man.

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A college is a college is a college. Great grades in high school doesn't assure you a top 10 spot, heck a 4.0 and a 1800 won't even get you into harvard. They turned down like half the people with that. The important thing is that you get an accredited degree and not where you get the degree. Sure you can bust your ass get into a state university get into some job which is a "great job." but you can also put in a half assed effort and go to a state college get a "good job." and the bonus is you didn't waste your youth. - zepherin

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I wish you had tried to understand what i was saying. Harvard is not end of the world.
If you talk about wasting youth, you'd want to know that your youth countinues till around 25 atleast, and you aint too old at 35, whilst high school is only till 17-18.
So, if you want to waste the rest of your life while enjoying the last 2-3 years of high school, you might want to do that. I'd never.

Well zepherin, i dont think you'd know better , you're living in the US itself. I know there are a lot of un-accredited universities there, so the first step is to first find a nice accredited one. But well, because the U.S. has less competition as compared to the rest of the world, and it gives more privelleges to its citizens, so most dont even think about university, so it doesnt matter where you get the degree from. But for countries like India, and others in Asia, even Germany and sort, you need to study, and i think it's for good. Atleast, it doesnt harm me, only gives me extra knowledge, i'd know what concentration is, molarity , binomial theorem, permutations, all in high school, even before going to univsersity, em...sure am a better man. Wickdgin says it :

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I think the point is that you need to be a well rounded person. There is nothing wrong with studying computers, but if that is all you know, how far would you get you in life. - Wickdgin

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This guys also explains it ::

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Well, for me, it goes both ways, I'm in high school and it is a tech. school. For me, the studies come first because of the reason that I also have tech. courses. I myself is a computer enthusist and my interest being in school deepens my understanding of what priorities comes first. My school sends good students to IV league univ. here in the US and they have many programs that help you get there. It depends on the student because the courses are also strict in many schools, but if the person wants to major in the tech. area, then it is their choice. There was this one kid at my school who was a sophomore and he made more money than my CS teacher (just working weekends)*programming.
It really depends, but I would suggest studies first before any other things, it would help anyone get a lot out of life. - Azn_Acid02

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Oh, and im surprised that the senior members don't have a say in this one, guys you have kids, what do you think about this discussion, huh ? you must be experienced enough for advice.

afterthought : oh and i heard internet access is pretty costly in Ireland. $55 an year.
after-afterthought : oh, but that mag was 1 year old, but still, is it true ?

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Originally posted here by magnoon


Xerox had the first GUI which was "borrowed".


If you have not read about the Xerox Palo Alto labs you should. A herd of nerds sitting around on bean bag chairs building whatever struck their fancy. The first GUI, the first mouse, the first e-mail system, networked computers and even rudimentary voice recognition.

Xerox decided in their infinite wisdom that they were wasting their money and shut the research down. Bill Gates had also visited the parc and 'borrowed" a few ideas.

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Magnoon, many people see the Xerox Palo Alto labs as the designers of the GUI, but let not forget the forefathers of the GUI: Engelbart, Sutherland

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"Sketchpad pioneered the concepts of graphical computing, including memory structures to store objects, rubber-banding of lines, the ability to zoom in and out on the display, and the ability to make perfect lines, corners, and joints. This was the first GUI (Graphical User Interface) long before the term was coined."

–- from a Sun Microsystems biography of Ivan Sutherland

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see: http://www.webmasterbase.com/article/511/45

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In 1968 Engelbart created NLS (oNLine System), a hypermedia groupware system that used the mouse, the windowed GUI, hypermedia with object addressing and linking, and even an early version of video teleconferencing to wow its audience, a group of technicians, engineers, and scientific types at Stanford University.
However, Engelbart was not the only visionary in the history of GUI. In 1963 a grad student at MIT, Ivan Sutherland, submitted as his thesis a program called “Sketchpad,” which directly manipulated objects on a CRT screen using a light pen.

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source: http://www.webmasterbase.com/article/511/45

And on topic: Wickdgin has a good point. While many of us speak computerish we still (try to) do work and learn in other fields... up to a (would be) homo universalis ;)

I'm just a highschool kid. I get good grades and I have never had a problem, but a lot of kids do. I put school then computer. I have to admit that somtimes I'm finishing up a prog when I should be studying.

To somebody who negged me saying : If you want discussion, dont take up on people.

ALright, i wanted discussion, so i never stopped discussion. I only provided argument to my point of view because there were conflicts on it. If you dont like it , why dont you just ignore it ? Also, i never complained upon not participating, all i asked was other members agreement because i believed this to be a serious issue. Well, not just serious, but very serious.

Well sandsword, you got mah point !

I think if you ever want to be any good at computers you also need to have a broad dasis to start with.
And with that I mean college university (any direction you want) and a lot of reading of various kinds..
Watching Discovery channel, National Geographic etc..

If you specialise yourself to one thing and are the best at that one thing..
What happens if that thing gets replaced with the next best thing?

To be able to grow you need food, and eating the same food evry day is bad for you!!

call me stupid or whatever you want, but I here is what I think:

Do what you want, be what you want, live how you would like to live and die how you want to die.

It doesn't matter how you learn or who you learn from. What matters is that you do what makes you happy. When it comes to my computer knowledge I am completely self taught and currently hold a system administration position making 65k+ a year. I tried taking classes when I was in high school but was removed from the class and prevented from joining any future classes because I made the teachers look bad. I finished high school with a b average and have been doing tech work ever since.

so like i said, call me stupid or whatever you would like but live life how you want and be happy!

If that formula was sureshot for everyone, im sure no one would consider high school even as a faint option, let alone studying hard.
Oh and you're not stupid, just moody, that's okay, i guess, but not what is right for everyone/works for everyone.

Edit : Raisor, you can give me AP's , but after a while. Just grow up on your greenies a bit and then neg me as much you wish.

What's with the attitude invader??

All raisor said is if you want to spend all your time studing because it makes you happy or think it will make you happier later, fine, do it. Just don't try to impose your views on everyone.

For one, I hated highschool, brain stuffing, broad subjects that I'll never use again and don't even remember a thing about after 5 years. It was boring to me, and offered no motivation whatsoever. Only when I got interested into computers and moreover networks (the internet was JUST getting popular) did I find motivation in getting better grades to go to [college] (not exactly because I'm in quebec but let's say), in computer science.

And having more computer time under my belt was a great asset once there: I was pretty much in advance (computer & networks & prog wise) than most other students, and still am because I keep learning stuff by-myself before seeing it in class (and even then, I often correct the teacher).

Oh and it also allowed me to get a job as an admin in an highschool that pays better than university demonstrators and even some teachers.

And while yes to get through highschool I did have to know the perodic table, knowing how the tcp/ip stack works is much more usefull to me now.

Anyways, I don't care to fight about this as it's an opinion base debate.

Ammo

I'm in highschool. And every once in a while, I'll get this difficult test, and you know I make this excuse to myself that I already reviewed the material on my own time, and that studying isn't _really_ neccessary. The next thing you know, I'm suddenly bored. So I turn on my computer and either work on my site and get so into it it's like 11:30 and I'm bloodshot, and slowly go down to the pantry and get myself some french vanilla coffee ;) or I fall asleep in front of the computer. I'm awaken at around 4 in the morning by the sound of my computer beeping at me because I'm pressing too many keys at once. But then I study.

Then I know I've made a mistake. So I go downstairs and grab my backpack, get my books out and carry them at 4 up to my room. I study until around 7 when my alarm clock goes off and I get ready for school. When I get there, I take the test.

"What do you mean you got a 35?" Is usually the next thing that I hear that I actually pay attention to. "But dad.. I studied for three hours!" I say, usually still bloodshot. He says oh its that damn computer and then I do it all over again. Thats how it used to be. But now, I reallized, just like said before, you have to be a well rounded person. So I've cut the computer time, and given the french vanilla coffee a rest. Ok, maybe not that. But I've cut the computer time ;)


Regards,
Silentstalker

Ammo, i believe you shouldnt come and say something and moreover, just neg me, when you dont know what's been going on. He tried to neg with a very offensive message, so that made me reply like that. I dont take undue rows with everybody, but you're negging really makes me surprised, simply because you were not even involved in the first place. ( you didnt even know the background of my message ).

Right about your view ammo, but do you support the discussion or oppose it, in short ?

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I hated highschool, brain stuffing, broad subjects that I'll never use again and don't even remember a thing about after 5 years. It was boring to me, and offered no motivation whatsoever. Only when I got interested into computers and moreover networks.

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emm..it's boring , i know, but dont you think that it's important as well ? The point of high school is to introduce yourself to some basic learning, i believe, but it's most important to go to a nice university, because everyone cannot be sure that if they gain knowledge on computers at an early age, they will have a sureshot career. whatdya think about that ?

Oh and silenttalker- way to go !

hi buddies,

this is anirudh, 16 yr. old guy frm india........I am in class 11 n i am havin a bad time with books.
@ my class 10 board exams i got 89% marks..Thereafter i started experimentin with the PCs n gadgets...
however here when i have taken science n mathematix in 11 i harldy pass my exams..PAthetiC.. Permutations, trigonometry suck.

My dad is a prof. n is quite worried bout my future.

I keep awake whole nite in front of my pc....tryin to hack servers n have fun.

Can niwon tell me wats more imp. here at this stage...COMPUTERS or STUDIES?

ThanX

urs.
Anirudh

Anirudh, i am a fellow Indian, first of all, from the capital.
Secondly, now, have you read all those messages in this thread carefully ?
Emm..you know it's exactly the same happening to me, as it is to you. But i have lessened my frequency to much low now and have subsequently excelled on my subjects. You can hack all you want once you are into some kind of profession. If you dont get a good degree, considering the amount of competition in India, how do you think you'll be able to suceed without studying.
If you are excellent at computers but dont have proof, to be specific, academic proof, you are nowhere buddy. So this is my advice for da moment, just concentrate on your subjects. And if you are not interested in your subjects, like i wasnt at one time, drop a year and change to humanities, or commerce streams. They are as good, what matters is what you are interested in. If you want to go into computers, better forget about Humanities, i don't think that's possible then. But don't ruin you career, please study guy , that was aim of my thread.
I'm thankful that atleast i got one classic case like i wanted, and who i could be of help to.

Peace.

thanks MR. invader for showin me the path.......

thanks a lot

hey invader may i know in vich class r u?

Just PM me buddy.