using the "F" word

Straight up...I like the AP system...it has a purpose and fills it quite nicely. My problem is the language that some of the members choose in the comments. As an example...

Quote:

---

Let's see....shut the **** up man. Do you think ur respected or some all-knowing god? your about as respected as the dumbass who posted and/or knowledgesponge. damn, stop acting like ur smarter than you are. honestly

---

Now I'm all for freedom of speech...but I'm also a big supporter of manners and eloquent communication skills...and using the "F" word definitely is NOT eloquent. While I realize that it has become a part of our language and culture, that doesn't excuse using it in the manner evidenced above. The negs really don't bother me....it's the degrading language that some of our less tactful members use to get their "point" ( or lack thereof) across.

To cut to the chase, it would be nice to see an algorithym that picks up on blatent use of insulting and derogatory terms and deducts AP's from the kiddiot who sends them. Maybe one that detects a pattern and after a certain number of occurances smacks down the offender and teaches him (or her, though the females I've met here impress me as being above such things) that you should show a modicum of respect for your fellow members. No, I'm not advocating censorship, just appealing for a method that would make a portion of AO a lot less abusive. Food for thought...

I think we are all mature enough here to handle the word "****". I believe it's ok to use it when used tastfully. Flames like the one above isn't tastful...i've gotten some of those as well. But I don't think there is much we can do. I think we should leave the AO points the way they are and the people who choose to use the word distastfully will be weeded out eventually by the system.

I just wish they would give a reason along with the flame when giving a neg...how are we suppose to know what we did that made them give us the point?

Well lets see.. is it possible.. yup.. it is..

Most PhP boards (like phpbb etc) have posibilities to filter words and swap them.. But I don't realy see the necessity..

the list for you would be:

**** -> "F" word

then I'd like to add to the word mangle list...

skriptkiddie -> lamer
hacker -> wannabie
damn -> curse

and some more...

but I don't realy see the point in banning words..

Really, i agree with you allen.
It's really bad, who would know better than me ?
I know some senior member who has gone rotten on me, even though he/she makes an excuse when giving me a neg, i dont like when there's a straight drift of -30 points, those are hard-earned.
So the problem is only with new ones, or the ones who've got new status with their AP's or posts. This is a problem, i was thinking recently on it, and i agree with you fully.

Maybe some code be added to the AP system would be a good choice after all.

Edit : Jinx, well maybe not banning the words, just the people who use them.

To clarify, I'm not advocating totally abolishing the word(s), just punishing those who consistently use them in a derogatory manner. The AP comments SHOULD be used for critical commentary that is relevent to the post, not to carry out a vendetta of offensive insults and demeaning remarks. The "F" words...there is one that degrades homosexuals also, along with several others as suggested by the_JinX for example. Sorry if some don't agree with me, but I honestly feel that AO could and should rise above such crude behaviour.

/me breaks out his asbestos underoos and gets ready to take the heat... :)

What about a normal words to curse count..

Like a balance scale..

100 : 1
normal:curse

then when people get close to "Too Many Bad Words" they get a warning ;)

Quote:

---

Karma warning
You have been cursing way too much..
use more normal words to balance your karma

---

ok, we are not discusing AP system as point
but we are talken about the coments attached with the colored dot

as for me , i'm got used to that F statments coupled with other nice names, for me and mother and the whole family.

but i don't give a dmn $*1t, i don't listen to stupid AOers.
i get neged by good Members, they usualy leave me a good coment with a red dot.
but at least they show why is that red dot for,
and i do the same, most of members who got neged by me, they get a clarification for that.
sure, no bad names with that.
coz as i always say, repect is a base of good relation and friendship.
even a cyber relation.

so i say, forget about that F coments, as if they are not there :)

I agree with you allenb there is no need to be rude to people.I think the problem is that a lot of people dont know how to use the antipoint system properly.I my-self have only recieved a small portion of abusive negs they usually come with a grey dot but on one or two ocasions i have had the ocasional neg with thinks like **** YOU *******!!!! stupid things like that come on is that the way the antipoint system is to be used ?.But shown in the past people who give out abusive comments in negs will eventually be banned for abusing the system so before you give out negs with silly insulting comments take a second to think about what could happen and is it really worth getting banned over

Meh.

just a thought...
if you try to "edit" words or asign some wort of point systems you might find some difficulties in coding.
for example how many of you here alone have used the word "****" . If there was any sort of system in place i'd just have been "punished" for cursin' and so would many of you.
i like the idea of someone getting in trouble for using the word in the incorrect manner but this can't be done by any script as comps aren't as intellegent as pplz (when it cose to these sorta things)

just my opinion guys.

well i don't really agree with any sensorship, it's everybodies constitutional right to be as ignorant as they choose to be. if they want to use lowbrow phrases, let them.

alternitively, how about a script that changes words. we could put "i eat" before all occurences of "****", and so on. i think the problem would solve itself then :)

Jabberwocky..

I've done such a thing for a phpBB forum for a student-organisation..

It even changed things like a slang word for girls to: more then one girl
And used other words for all slang references to genitalia..
It made for realy funny discussion..
Also all references to alcohol are transformed to other high-class-golf-playing-polo-suited-student words.

Quote:

---

I think we are all mature enough here to handle the word "****". I believe it's ok to use it when used tastfully.

---

Ok, FamStars&Straps, and just how might this be done? ;)

mathgirl32 he told u " tastfully :deal: "
hmmm but i still :what: wonder what he mean by this ::sperm::



bimmer

allenb, I am not quite sure where one would start with this idea and more importantly, where you would stop. I do agree with you that there is no reason for people to be rude or disrespectful, but I have seen (and personally received) some very rude, disrespectful comments without a single curse word in them. Going through the effort of coding an algorithm to punish the people who use/abuse them would, IMHO, be a wasted effort as the rudeness will continue.

My 2 cents.

Cheers:

Mathgirl32 beat me to it. ""****". I believe it's ok to use it when used tastefully" How's that?

1) You're f**king beautiful(?)
2) You're pretty f**king smart(?)
3) Nice f**king shot(sports related?)
4) Awesome f**king sermon Father(church related?...maybe not....)
5) I sure as f**k do(getting married?)
6) Good morning Sears. How may I f**king help you(customer service?)
7) Do you promise to tell the f**king truth, the whole f**king truth, and nothing but the f**king truth(Maybe a courtroom?)

I agree with you, at least partially, allen. Almost all of the negs I have received have involved someone using the "f word" in a most derogatory fashion. To me using that word is pretty "lowbrow" and shows a general lack of intelligence because they couldn't come up with a better word/phrase and instead stooped to simply cursing someone out.

On the other hand though, I'm not sure that this is something we want or need as a community. Once we start down the slippery road of censorship we run the risk of not being able to stop. Once our "polictical correctness" movement starts where will it stop? It could set a precedence that we don't want to see.

For now when I see someone start using that word in their comments or PM's to me I simply ignore it. /shrug



El Diablo

I'm a strong believe in Freedom of Speech, Thought and Action. But I agree with The_Jinx, having code to issue a karma warning or something to that nature. About (so-called) foul speech. Yet it does not present good communication skillz either.

Michael Cooney wrote a song that goes something like:

"We sit down to have a chat
And its F-word this and F-word that
I can't control how you young people talk to one another
but I do not want to hear the F-word with your mother"

words from memory (but also available from http://www.folkblues.com/evidence/3songs.ppt [page down 5 times]). Could not find an mp3 link -note I think Tom Paxton has a performed once or twice as well.

I do have to agree though with the general philopsphy of this thread. Over use of the word accomplishes little I completely agree with EL Diablo when he stated:

Quote:

---

To me using that word is pretty "lowbrow" and shows a general lack of intelligence because they couldn't come up with a better word/phrase and instead stooped to simply cursing someone out.

---

For me the word is used when I wake up at 07:50 and have someplace very important to be at 08:00 -in which case its oh f**k repeatley has I go through the challenges of getting ready quickly. But it does not belong in intelligent discourse.

Cheers,
-D

We all should use eloquence and manners as allen said. This has been a common topic on AO. But, I think that the substitution of certain words used distastefully is bad. AO as a "fight the power feel" to it. With all the advocation for free speech and such it's just hypocritical. We won't be able to phase out all the idiots out there regardless. Good comes with the bad. It's just what you choose to focus on. Peace.

"I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltair

Why add censorship?
I thought the base reason of the internet is for freedom of speech and expression?

Sure, getting messages with ****, Bitch, ******* or whatnot isn't quite nice to get, but hey, **** happens, eh? :D

Also, I doubt that JP would censon anything since the "near ban" message informs people of being *******s to others....

I think I will have to say no censoring here. Saying you can use ***** 'tastefully' is a bit too far but saying something like "she's so fuc*ing hot" to your friends can get the point across moreso than "she's hot" IMO anyhow.
ArmyOfOne

This is somewhat off the topic of the word "****" but it has to do with AO points. I think there needs to be a change in the giving of negative points. The change needs to be that the user giving the neg needs to be required to specify a reason. I've been negged by many unknown users who put nothing in the text box. How am I suppose to know what I did wrong? How is it helping someone? Required reasons for neg's should be enforced. It's not doing anybody any good to simply leave it blank. At least give me SOMETHING so that I may improve upon it.

I think JP made this option (i mean writing a message when you green or neg) for the other person to know WHY you are greening or neging him/her. So i ask myself, why putting a message saying "SHUT UP YOU FU**ING AS**OLE"? This is what JP wanted or wants?, i think not. Why if someone posts a wrong thread some persons write these insulting messages? Instead, they should write an advice or comment about his/her wrong post. This would be useful.

Note: I will use "he" always but it could be "she" too.

This is a community to learn, help and be helped. There are no awards for insulting others and you won't help the person insulting him. And if he is a molesting person that isn't contributing to AO, then insulting him is not an option to get rid of him, is worse, the only thing you'll get is to angry him much more and he will continue to post useless threads. And if he is a good person and receives an insult in his first, second, third or any post, then he could turn in a "bad" person (just because he is angry because you insulted him), and you are losing a new member. A "useless" person in AO is usually banned... so is not worth insulting him.

Well, that's all, bye.

It's a lack of vocabulary really otherwise why would you need to use it? It is ok talking to your mates or whatever at home but not on a site that can be viewed by people of all ages and backgrounds

To me, f-ck is just a word. Its a pointless word, I mean virtually every sentence out there that has the "f word" in there can do with out it. It might not make sense, but it can be reworded easily to, without contaning f-ck. But society chooses to deem this word "bad", meaning not polite or cortious to say when having a conversation, or when writing a letter. Imagine doing this.

Harvord
123 Harvord Lane

Dear Mr. Chief of Resume's,

I'm not that good of a student, but I'm a great ****ing athlete. My ****ing mom raised me very actively in Cleveland, Ohio. If I were you I'd go right ahead and accept me, because I'm sure as **** I'll do good at this school.

Hope to hear from you again,
Bob Smith

Because of society's judgement on this word, you know have a dramatically lowered chance of getting accepted. So really I think this is a word I could live without. But that's just me.


Regards,
Silentstalker

to prove to all of you that the word " F " doesn't fit in the coments of AP system, even for the tastfull meaning of it.

if he/she neged you with F statment, they never list thier names , they never sign their coments.
why, coz' it's a wrong, and consedered as an insulting words to be used, simply ( doesn't fit in a good coment)

so, to all of u who said it could be used tastfully, i think u r totaly wrong.
and i say no one of you can neg with F and sign his/her name !!! can you, no, why ?
flame war will start, hate will be generated in this site.
plus, it will be a site to collect greenies and insult peeps, instead of the main aim of being here for all of us ====> learn & teach !!

I do agree that at some times, curse words, such as the "F word" are useful to get one's point across quickly and efficiently, but, I don't see many times here where that would be applicable. Most of the APs I've received with the "F word" are typically something along the lines of "That was ****ing lame" etc. I do get plenty of constructive comments (both positive and negative), but those typically don't have curse words. Honestly, though, I don't take it personally. I figure, if you're going to give me a line like that listed above, then you're just too ignorant to know how to structure a better sentence. I don't care what people say. I really like when I get constructive comments, and, a few times, I even PMed the sender (when they sent their name) and talked with them about it. I always sign my PMs (whether it's positive or negative) and I always try to give reasons behind it. If you can't take the negative comments, just don't post... you have to take the good with the bad...

AJ

Allen I am 100% behind you on this one.Mathgirl has said it all for me.How????????????That's the question.The one thing that frustrates..mmh..,makes me see red, is when this word is used by kids in front of there parents and nothing and I mean nothing!!!!!!!!!!is done about it.This just tell's me one thing:Bad influence by others and no respect for parents.I know that circumstances often beyond personal control contribute to this factor but they should then be guided and made aware of the consequenses this may entail.I have seen personally how uncomfortable parents get when there children uses this word in front of them, and embarresment is not the word.I personally think you can get any point that you want to make,any message you want to carry over, across without the use of the f-word.

Wouldn't it be wonderfull if there was some kind of system in place which could make people less fortunate then others(homeless,hunger, aids, etc..) people benefit from it in some way everytime this word is used by someone.The person using the word must donate some money towards a good cause.That would make them think twice before using it.(I know it is far fetched but still!!)

"The person using the word must donate some money towards a good cause"

Imagine how poor Andrew Dice Clay, Eddie Murphy, Richard Pryor, Dennis Leary, etc would be right now!

...and Joe Peschi....

I guess to use the word **** tastefully you must have your pinky raised high when you click submit

Would it really make anyone feel happier to see “you’re an un-bathed individual having carnal knowledge of your maternal parent” :-)

I’ve had someone tell me that I was “contaminating the gene pool”. If I knew who sent it I could have reassured that person that I wouldn’t see his mother anymore..

Personally I don’t have a problem with ‘obscenity’ but cutting remarks for no apparent reason piss me off. I mean which is worse: ‘**** you!’ Or ‘your not wanted here.’.

My sister-in-law says the f word every other word and it doesn't matter where we are, we could be in a resturant or a mall or anywhere else we go together. We were at my mom's house for the holidays and I had my 3 kids there and my brother and sister in laws 2 kids and other friends, and my sister in law, TINA, started in with ***** this and ***** that, every other word was ***** right in front of my kids and hers. So to push her buttons I said the N word, becauase her 1/2 brother is 1/2 black and after I said it 3 or 4 times she crossed her arms and sat there, pouted and did not talk for almost 4 hours. Now I am not racist at all I only said it because I got so tired of her saying ***** all the time. I use the f word myself from time to time but not like her every other word. I think there is a time and a place to use the f word and I think the people here are intelligent enough to think of another way to express their thoughts and emotions than with *****.

my dear friend,
as far as I think the AO seems to be a site where you can express your emotions in any manner you want to.and as far as the word "f" is concerned it is almost usually used to just beautify your message...its upto you ..how to grasp it.in most of the cases it is just used in a light mood and I don't think it does hurt you...specially you are grown enough to access AO.

Try this Proxomitron filter I made:

Code:

---

Name = "Un-F-wordifyier"
Active = TRUE
Multi = TRUE
URL = "*"
Limit = 256
Match = "****"
Replace = "[beep]"

---

It goes to your default.cfg under the [Patterns] -header. ;)

One thing should be pointed out. The word **** is, in the Webster's Unabridged Dictionary, a verb. Therefore, all posters who use this word should be advised that it is incorrect usage to use it as a noun, pronoun, adjective, adverb, etc. Come on, guys. In a forum for the freedom of speech, we should be very careful to get our point across clearly, concisely, and correctly. JUST LIKE YOU WOULD GET PISSED OFF IF I YELLED ALL THE TIME, the effect of an exclamitory word is to draw attention to the reader. **** has never been a good way to get across a point effectively. It doesn't explain the who, what, when, why, or where of any situation, and it definately does not help to clarify a command (although it does have a slightly therapeutic effect). Therefore, as people who want to be taken seriously, we need to be constructive and not a bunch of boors, or even worse, "133T H4X0RZ" (read, lamers).

like many of you have said i agree with freedom of speach theory.

if most people here don't like the "f" word and 99% don't like it used in a bad way then won't the antipoint system take care of that?
if there is a post that upsets many members wont that results in the member being banned or getting a very low antipoint status?
is the antipoint system not working?

Lots of good ideas on this one. Tedob1 and his "pinky raised high" got me choked on my coffee. Good one, Tedob1 ! So, anyway, how about this: In order to post or assign AP's you already have to be a registered member which is good. How about tweaking the AP-assignment code to automatically append your member name to the comment and AP (plus or minus) you are giving? Perhaps it could accomplish a couple of things; encourage us to make more reasonable, logical, helpful comments on the post, and, "pinky held high", impart perhaps a bit more class to the whole community? After all, if we were all in a conference room having these discussions with the pillars of the IT world present, and we were all looking for a job interview (good one, S_S!) would you hear the applicants using foul language or being rude to others? Probably not.

Old Man, making the name of the person giving the points on the post would cause huge problems. There would be huge AP point wars. The whole "Oh, well if he gave me that neg then I'm going to do it to him 5 fold" It would cause huge problems. I think this is why JP didn't make it like that in the first place.

I think what we need to do is make it required to have at least something in the text when you give someone AP points. Giving AP points, pos or neg, is worthless.