Have your say on hackors

Have your say on hackors

http://www.unerror.com

Sick and tired of a revolving door justice system that lets hackers skate with just a few measly years in prison? Or do you think that the courts are already too hard on online miscreants who sometimes go up the creek for longer than many killers?

Either way, the U.S. government wants to hear from you.

Last week the commission -- normally seven members; currently five pending two replacement appointments -- turned to the public for advice, publishing a formal "Issue for Comment" on the general question of whether sentences are strong enough to deter and punish cyber evildoers, and on eight specific proposals to add more variables to the formula that produces a hacker's sentence.

The possibilities include adding extra points for financially motivated hackers, or for intruders that invade an individual's privacy.

The formal notice is available from the United States Sentencing Commission's Web site, along with a detailed list [pdf] of the questions the commission is pondering.

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if you don't like the way the gov is handleing hackers...heres your chance to speak up!

Tedob1,

Personally, unfortunately i ain't qualified to opine about hackers sentences (hehe) but i just think this way: any type of action that doesn't follow the rules (almost always) should be punished, i mean, if you're killer you deserve punishment, if you're a thief you deserve punishment, if you're a raper you deserve punishment... then, (and i hope you mean the term "cracker") hackers are cyber killers, thiefs and rapers with computers data. There are many businessmen that prefer that a real thief robs their houses than a "hacker" steals or "plays" with "too much" important data from their enterprises. "Hackers" are clever persons, know they're breaking the rules and know what will happen if they get caught. So i don't care what happen to them while the'yre punished fairly enough.

Good post!!!

DKRR

i agree with both of u......but what is more important is to differenciate between a hacker and a cracker

y is it so hard to understand the diff b/w a hacker/cracker ... what is up with the media/gov/public ... is it to much to ask that they remember 2 definitions? i think they media should try to right this wrong, then maybe others will follow. i want to be proud to be a hacker, even if i'm not really a hacker yet. =P

i agree with what jhgrew said. There is a big difference. Shame that the gov has no idea of the difference. Its also a political question, aswell as money wise. The media for example, use the word hackers so people look at their news, or read their newspapers/magazines etc....If they had the headlines "Cracker cracked online accounts", it would not sound so interesting as "Hacker Hacked online Accounts". Its all about media and power. I agree that people who do harm (either its physical or online) should be punished (Upto what degree i cannot say). I have said this many times before on AO, and i will say it again.

If there were no hackers, there would be no internet, no BBS, no *nix OS, no online ethics etc....

Hackers have made the internet what it is today. Hacking is not breaking into accounts and stealing info or whatever. Hacking is creating, programming, fixing, going into deep depths of anything they ley their eyes on. Enough of this **** that hackers should be punished, or hackers have done this or that. A true hacker does not do the things that they are accused of. If it were so, then they should lock up Linus Torvalds, and onyone else who has created an OS, and who has contributed in making the net what it is today. They should lock up all sys admins who use security tools. They should lock up anyone who spends more than 12 hours a day infront of a computer. (i tend to exagerate, but i believe that i am right) Ther biggest privacy invasion is the gov or media itself. Why are they not punished?

This subject is making me very angry.
Bye :mad:

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Sick and tired of a revolving door justice system that lets hackers skate with just a few measly years in prison? Or do you think that the courts are already too hard on online miscreants who sometimes go up the creek for longer than many killers?

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What is your view on this issue Tedob1? Would you care to enlighten us?

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Personally, unfortunately i ain't qualified to opine about hackers sentences (hehe) but i just think this way: any type of action that doesn't follow the rules (almost always) should be punished, i mean, if you're killer you deserve punishment, if you're a thief you deserve punishment, if you're a raper you deserve punishment... then, (and i hope you mean the term "cracker") hackers are cyber killers, thiefs and rapers with computers data.

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This statement confuses me just a wee bit -DaRK-RaiDeR-, I am a hacker, so am I destined to be punished for helping to pioneer the internet and Bulletin Boards?

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i agree with both of u......but what is more important is to differenciate between a hacker and a cracker

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LOL... here we have a fence walker witch side will he fall? Very safe statement jhgrew.

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i think they media should try to right this wrong, then maybe others will follow. i want to be proud to be a hacker, even if i'm not really a hacker yet. =P

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Me too drew...

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If there were no hackers, there would be no internet, no BBS, no *nix OS, no online ethics etc....

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Ther biggest privacy invasion is the gov or media itself. Why are they not punished?

This subject is making me very angry.

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Very well said instronics, this is my view almost exactly. I do believe youv'e got it. :D

aeallison i posted this because its has been a much discusses topic and thought it might interest a few. but being as you asked... i think making hackers (im going with the widly accepted view of the word here) in general terrorists is on a par with calling kids that spray paint walls terrorists. its shall we say a little harsh.

anyone caught breaking the law should be prepared to face the consequences however the punishment should not exceed the crime. if we're talking site defacement maybe some community service would be in order or paying for the time it takes to repair it. stealing sensitive corporate data is a felony IRT and also on the internet. theft is theft but neither of these are terrorist acts.

as for White Hat Hacking. if i break in just to see if i can break in its still breaking and entry (not terrorism) when ever i come accross a serious breack in security i inform the admin by anonymous email. i dont expect everyone to share my lightheart view of what has been done and there's no reason why they have to.

i will not be taking any action on this issue its really not something that moves me that much. but there are some here that seem to care allot

as far as the term hacker goes...a word is as a word is used. if im not happy with the negitive aspects given the word by its common usage i will not refer to myself that way. were facing war, terrorist attacks. people are starving and even eating each other. i dont care about a stupid word.

Thank you for this subject Tedob1. You answered that perfectly, at least what I expected from you. I have been blackballed by the very people I used to call my mentors and friends. I have had to look towards another career because I am no longer respected in my area as an "educated" expert in the field. I have not had the fortune or oppourtunity to go to school to recieve that diploma or certification that my so called mentors proudly display on their walls on walnut plaques. I may have forgotten what they are still learning, I can run circles around all of them, but, the general population here sees their fancy papers and $50,000.00 + vehicles and assume they are the experts and I am just an un-educated wannabe.

Sorry for the rant, I just had to get that out of my system as I sit here wondering how I am going to keep my electricity on as they are due to disconnect me today and I only have part of what I owe them. </rant>

Yeah I posted on that site yesterday....

Personally I think its not right....
Come on don't you find it funny that you guys have to compair these peaple to murderers and rapist? What you should be asking yourselves is why aren't these guys actually doing something about murderers and rapist instead of some chump with pre-compiled lamer tools!

And so far the only criminals who have been caught are script-kiddies.....
And just think about how many there are in the world..... Would your jail 100? 1000? 900,000,000 for life? If the gov. is worried about some sucker who 'exploits' a warhead then if they even worried/cared then they "WOULDN'T PUT IT ONLINE!".

However I agree that if someone does break into lets say... a dam or some bomb factory then yes.... that person should be locked away for a very long time. But mostly kiddies don't even know what they are scaning and breaking into intil they are already inside.

And just think about all of the ex-blackhats who turn their hobbies into jobs.... If these guys were still in jail then many of the problems that are waiting to be discovered/fixed wouldn't be taken care of intil it is to late.

Hi,

I'm belgian and newbie , so I don't really know exactly what is going on in the US.
Not deep enough anyway.

Here in Belgium, the difference between White hats, black hats is even greater.
If you even try or give out to be a 'security freak' you' re doomed here, because of the even greater ignorence here.

I would bet if some of the guys ( or girls ) would take a shot at government property here, they would find bigger holes then the one in a big suisse cheese. Very few people know that i'm interested in this stuff, so i'm very excited to learn a lot here at a renomated site as AO.

I don't know if it's really in your interest here at this thread, but I sometimes get furious from
the over-all ignorence of the people and government here.

Greetz,

Since 9/11 I think the definition of the word terrorist has changed forever. Seems that everyone who doesn't toe the party-line is one or is viewed as a potential one !!.

I have always said "Paranoia with Destroy Ya"

I have to agree with Tedob1 on this one, I have yet to see mandatory sentencing work .... the court system should be seen as an extension of the community and reflect the communities values on various matters - this is where sentencing guidelines come into action, mandatory sentencing tends to reflect the governments vote-gathering slant on these issues, which in most cases is somewhat misguided.

Every case needs to be judged on its merits.

For instance if some spotty-faced script-kiddie was to have their pride-and-joy computer confiscated and "donated" to some community organisation or school that could put it to good use, it would probably have enough impact on their like-minded friends to cease their activities without burdening the tax-payer having to pay for another misguided kid behind bars and benefit the some section of the community against whom they had erred.

For the habitual offenders - well let the community values come to the fore and deal with them.

About the hacker vs cracker business...I agree with you 100%. However the reason why the media does not make the distinction, and same with the gov, is because it becomes to confusing for people that are not part of this "inner cyber community." It's sad that the two deffinitinos can't be remembers, but it's just fact. I think it might have something to do with the fact that everyone seems to make/think everything is 10times more complicated when it involves computers or electronics. This, however, is far from the truth (as we all know).

I was just curious... isn't Tedob1's post from Security Focus, not unerror.com.. I remember seeing it in bugtraq the other day... I believe it was written by Kevin Poulsen.

All I'm going to say is that the govenment should look inward to the corruptness that's going on there before they start pointing and shaking their fingers at a world they can't even start to explain. I too have been shunned when I say the word "Hacker" And it has been very refreshing to have a place to go (AO) when I need to be with "my" people.

Thank you Antionline for giving me a place where I belong.

back to origin issue:

hacker / cracker !!
i totally agree with you Phat_Penguin regarding the 9/11 thing.
but since i live in the meddileeast, i have 2 views ( mine and the community )
as for me: hackers are a well educated peeps with a very high scurity skills and i respect them, unless they go for illigal actions.
if a hacker brakes into computers without informing Admins about the hole he went through, he is a cracker and no more hacker.

the community view: it's not easy to find well computer educated peeps to vary between hacker / cracker, they just hear the word hacker in a movei, news or other peeps.
thats why the def. hacker been used widly as an illigal computer scurity actions ( brakes into computers ) but regular / normal peeps don't understand.

-bimmer

I think that as soon as our government realizes the difference between hackers and crackers and treats hackers with respect, these types of problems will just unearth in the future. The biggest problem here is exactly what bimmer said.

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Originally posted here by bimmer

the community view: it's not easy to find well computer educated peeps to vary between hacker / cracker, they just hear the word hacker in a movei, news or other peeps.
thats why the def. hacker been used widly as an illigal computer scurity actions ( brakes into computers ) but regular / normal peeps don't understand.

-bimmer [/B]

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I think that in the next few years, people will start to realize the difference, due in part to JP and this site. There's a lot thats been done, but also a lot to do. Perhaps our gov't should look at AO and see what we have to say......