*moved* Police Out of Hand.

I had read the article on a news site about a couple and their child who got pulled over, because the guy left his wallet on the roof of his car and money was flying all over the highway. I guess an individual who seen the bills spreading across the interstate called the police suspecting a robbery.. Remind you, this is a guy, his wife, child, and family dog in a car driving to x location and the guy left his wallet on the roof. No illegal crimes commited. What happens next? Watch this and tell me if you find this as FKD up and disturbing as I. There is no indecent, gruesome, or any other form of displeasing graphic on this film clip.


*This cop is under investigation for a repeat offense.

i am still a firm believer that police should be voted in by the people they are going to protect.

Damn..... That was a huge hound..... Jeez it had to be all of 25lbs.... Those things can be vicious..... They run right up your trouser leg and bite you where you don't wanna be bitten!!!

If this cop is a repeat offender he should be dismissed since he clearly doesn't have the temperament or demeanor to safely carry out his duties in public.

Of course, if this was my dog I'd have kicked his ass where he stood. He had no excuse with a dog that small - none whatsoever. I have utter contempt for the cop.

If I am not mistaken, there was never an official claim of a robbery, people saw the money and claimed suspicion. When does a cop ever make a routine stop with a shot gun and an automatic rifle?

You are saying cops all the way through your poll .... it is one cop - singular - and yes he should be called to account for his actions ...

Don't be so quick to judge. I saw the film footage on satellite tv here in Australia and the interview with this guy - apparently his wife and kids have received death threats because of his actions - a little rough in my opinion.

Apparently this is not the first dog he has shot and there is an obvious problem here - he might just be **** scared of them as a lot of people are. As a cop I have warned people to control their dogs or I would, the choice of letting it maul me is not an option. I am not afraid of dogs by the way.

For what its worth cops respond to a complaints made by a members of the public, they generally had no idea what was going on until they get to a scene and stop and speak to the people. It's the armchair critics that have the luxury of pulling the incident apart, piece by piece after the event in the safety of an airconditioned office.

I am not condoning his actions but I think I will wait for the outcome of the official inquiry and wont succumb to the "trial by media" before making my mind up as to whether his actions were justified or not.

The reason I bring this to attention is because I have seen a similair incident in my home town. My neigbbor was a suspected narcotics dealer and the cops performed a raid of his house, but in order to do so the needed to get the dog out of the way. I used to walk the dog every day, and I had all access to the pen etc. When I approcahed the officer about removing the dog, the cop told me to get out of here and the other officer shot it in the head. There was no narcotics, there was no reason to kill the dog, it was my nieghbors only companion. He is now slowly killing himself with lonliness, he does not go out, he is skin and bones, and he was diagnosed with colon cancer and has no will nor reason to want to live anymore. And if you click on the number next to the votes, my only vote was to kick him off the force. Repeat offense and uncalled for action.

and by the way two officers fired their weapons! one with an automatic rifle and the other with a shot gun. What was the reason for the heavy artiliary?

This may not have a lot to do with the dog incident but goes a long way to explain why the fire power was drawn at the time:

LOD Statistics (http://www.aphf.org/lodstats.html)

On average, a law enforcement officer is killed in the line of duty every 57 hours in America.

Between 1976 and 1998, of the over 1,800 officers killed-- ( /me - this is 5 years old now)

* 16% were on disturbance calls
* 14% were in robbery arrest situations
* 14% were investigating suspicious persons/circumstances
* 13% were making traffic pursuits/stops
* 13% were attempting arrests for offenses other than robbery or burglary
* 10% were in ambush situations
* 7% were in an arrest situation involving drug-related matters
* 5% were in a burglary arrest situation arrests
* 6% were in other situations

Of the 901 assailants identified in the killing of law enforcement officers from 1989-98 --

* almost half had a prior conviction
* almost one-fifth were on probation or parole at the time

Most law enforcement officers are killed with firearms, particularly handguns.

SOURCE: U.S. Department of Justice Bureau of Justice Statistics

I cannot understand why they would be a little trigger happy !!!!!

I wouldn't be a cop in America for all the tea in China.

Did that page full of statistics enumerate the number of police officers in the USA who have been killed by yappy little 20-25lb puppy dogs by any chance?

Come on now - if you can't drop kick a 25lb puppy on your own you have _no_ business being a police officer....... Big Old Shepherds, Rotties, Dobies and the odd pitbull are one thing but this was basically a "rat dog", (my phrase for them as a long time owner of 2 shepherds.... ;) ). The officer started shooting before the dog had done anything....

hang on Tiger Shark, read my original post, some people are **** scared of dogs .... the size of the dog doesn't matter .... if my recollection of the video is correct the dog ran at him, probably sensing the person with the most fear (as dogs do), could explain my first argument - what was he supposed to wait for it to bite him first before reacting, how would it look on tape him kicking the thing - just as bad and he would be just as condemned as he is now ???

Look at the end of the day the dog was doing what dogs do and and was protecting its family from a dog's perceived threat, ...shame they haven't the intelligence to understand the situation.

Secondly the second post is in reply to why American cops probably carry the weaponery they do .... 13% killed in traffic stops .... thats an horrendous figure that no nation should be happy with.

I have a nice little 25lb "rat-dog" as you describe it and it would look in-offensive on a video tape but I dare you to jump my fence and try and kick it.

Like I said, I am not condoning his actions but I am not going to pre-judge him either until I am in receipt of all the facts not just a piece of video tape as damning as it may be.

Phat: I wasn't picking on you in my post and I guess that the "rat dog" comment just kinda makes it worse...... I just got lucky I suppose...... ;)

Seriously.... The dog ran from left to right of shot and disappeared at which point the cops opened up on it. Yes, the dog was clearly circling and was probably on his way back on the "inbound" leg. But come on now - how much harm is it going to do? How scared does the big police officer have to be? Had there been people the other side of the dog would the officer have still discharged his firearm in fear? His apparent fear of dogs and his immediate, violent reaction are a danger to the society he is supposed to protect. And if he's scared of little puppy dogs what's he going to do when confronted by something that is actually scarey????? He should not be in his position after this..... There is no right or wrong as to whether he was justified...... His reaction time from seeing the dog to discharge indicates that it is a fearful reaction and it will cause a person harm at some time in the future. Since this is his second "offense" it is clear that this is not a behaviour that he has a lot of control over.

Tiger Shark, I dont take things personally although sometimes I do like to play the Devil's Advocate as it gets thing rolling along, but seriously I worked with a cop, 6'4" a big man - but he was terrified of dogs, didn't matter if it was a silky terrier or huge german shepherd - he had an uncontrollable fear of them. On occasions he would draw a firearm when these things walked towards him so strong was his fear. We managed to save all the dogs that strayed near him :)

I am just saying this guy might be the same and the fear he felt justified "in his mind" the actions he took .... and yes the guy has a problem with dogs and his supervisors need to take this into account and place him in a position where he can best serve his community - he may be a really good cop - just not around dogs.

Under most laws, dogs need to be on restraints and under the control of the owners at all times - this one obviously wasn't.

Everytime I hear of an incident like this with the Police, it underscores the fact that most police officers are doing their job out of fear for their own well being and as such over react in often dangerous ways. This heightened with the post 9-1-1 frenzy, has everyone in my opinion a bit trigger happy. The cops have a tough job to do and you can't assume because there are a few of them (maybe more than we care to believe) that lack common sense that this is the norm. What is really needed is better preemployment screening for potential cops, putting ones out to early retirement that are just past it and most of all better training for cops ... but not just in the methodologies of defense and agression but in logic and people skills. Bear in mind these cops see just how low civilization can be for half to two-thirds of their waking day, so they do become very jaded and paranoid, and can be extremely knee-jerk judgemental. Remember Cops are the tools of the political will. Anyway, having said this, yes, I agree that whenever a cop crosses the line and does something stupid he or she should be brought to justice.

I hope no little boy/girl asks this officer with help getting a kitten out of the tree, because the end results may be tragic and I would hate to see him assist with an elderly blind woman getting mugged, he may have to take out her seeing eye dog before returning the purse. An officer that is scared of dogs does not belong on the force and because we have equal rights. Just give him a damn desk job and put a guard directing anyone with seeing eye dogs to another officer.

i dont know what size it was, but it was a mixed breed pit bull and boxer. that type of dog can be pretty aggressive and scary looking.

Here are a few articles to peruse.

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20030109_2286.html

http://www.tennessean.com/local/arch...nt_ID=27697093

Info Tech Geek

I looked at your profile, hope you don't mind - but I have been a cop longer than you have walked this earth. You know the best thing about being a cop is, it is that no matter where you go or what you do, you get free, unsolicited advice on how to do it better than anyone has done it before - you would think it would impossible to be bad at your job with all this free help, but still we fail daily - go figure.

I personally would no sooner tell a web designer how to design the web than tell an astronaut how to fly to the moon.

Please walk a mile in this guys shoes before being so critical.

Quote:

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Originally posted here by Phat_Penguin
I looked at your profile, hope you don't mind - but I have been a cop longer than you have walked this earth.

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You old fart...... Of course I'm 45 so I should prolly STFU...... :D

As someone who is pretty familiar with guns, (10 years in the military as a super-dooper-para_trooper....<s>), I would suggest that both the police officer in question and your friend significantly increase the risk of a tragedy every time they drew/used their weapon as the result of an irrational fear. An irrational fear that can almost certainly be treated and "cured" at a lot less cost than a human life. I do not believe that people with irrational fears of things they will confront regularly in the course of their work should be armed while carrying out their duties.

Don't get me wrong though. I have the highest regard for the police and the job they have to do and I'm not picking on police officers specifically. As far as I am concerned the last sentence in the paragraph above applies to any profession that _ever_ carries a weapon as part of their job.

I have to admit though - as a dog lover I'm still a bit miffed about the cop picking on a little doggie........ :p

First off shouldnt the police have made sure the dog was secured in the car, and even if it was out, why didnt they opt for mace over their handgun. I have to laugh at the statement on the tape about the dog accting agressively, hell in its mind two men dressed in black, holding large ominous devices were pushing its master around, and it took that as a threat upon its food and shelter source. I'm not knocking the police on this one, but the dog was acting completely naturally IMHO.

Man, coruption everywhere! I just went through a similar incident where I spent 2 nights in central.
There is got to be a better way of choosing who is on the police force. (They suspected me of robbing
a old couple) Man I just walk 2 the store to get some cigs man. Later they found out it wasn't me but
they treat me badly with mace.

im sorry phat penguine if your offended by this or anyone else, but i grew up in a ruff neighborhood and the cops are a bunch of *******s, i have never metone who is a decent person, and i have been told many a times that i am one of those people that just can talk to a person for 15 minutes and get a good sense of who and what they are, its saved my ass a few times too. and in all my expeiance the only thing i have to say is f--k the police, i hate them, im glad that a cop dies every 57 hours, cause for every cop that gets killed theres at least 20 good people locked up in jail for some stupid **** that could have been avoided, or theres kids that are bein taken away from there parents cause the cops think they have the authority to just take them outta there homes and put them soem place else, im sorry to who i might offend but this is one of the few things that i will not succumb to, the thought that these people are good people, and responiable people just cause they have a badge on.who they hell are they to think they can shoot some ones dog?really who the hell do they think they are.i hate cops.there the dirtiest people on this planet.i cant say it enough .i hate the police.and i know theres alot of people out there who feel the same, problem is , is that you cant say it to there faces....they will lock you up in county over night.what a joke.shootin that mans dog....,,,what a pitiful excuse for a human being.

Hatebreed2000

Dont apologise to me, you are entitled to your opinion. I can not be offended by a person I do not know - regardless of their opinion. It is a shame you form that opinion of me without having ever meeting me (dirtiest person on the planet). Your negative experiences have obviously impacted on you, heavily.

I have been a street cop for over 20 years - I am not some pup who fell out of the police academy last week and the difference between you and me I dont wish harm on anyone, regardless of where they come from or who they are. Hate is a very strong word and in the end self-destructive.

I have never used a gun, mace, baton or any other form of force on any person - see my most powerful weapon is my mouth - the ability to communicate with people on all levels has saved me from having to resort to methods preferred by others who dont have the ability to talk to people.

Since cops are an extension of the community they serve, it stands to reason - rough neighbourhood - rough cops - sad fact of life and a shame, but true. I find treating people the same way you yourself would like to be treated goes a long way - and that works both ways. Treat cops like **** all the time and what do you really from them in expect in return - and the same goes for them - treat you like **** all the time - what can they expect of you.

Remember it is very hard to be angry to someone who is extending the hand of friendship and being respectful. Maybe its time for someone to bite the bullet and stop the circle of hate/violence.

Anyway I have had enough to say in this thread and wont post to it again.

I wish you well and hope something positive happens one day to change your outlook.

Officers are trained to react quickly against any kind of threads...if its a dog or a maniac, instinct and distinction is not something you can easily understand in the middle of all the screaming that was going on. If a guy jumped on his leg, he would've shot the same way. Before we point at the cops and start the old anti-law rebellion, why not look at the lack of training officers have in this area? This isn't anything new, dozens of dogs get shot every year. But yet the academy seems to leave that pretty much out of their
training . As far as stoping suspicious vehicles, if you're on duty and you get a call that a roberry just went on and you see a car farting money off on the highway, you stop that vehicle knowing that you can get shot on the forehead before you even finish saying the word "registration". It's not an easy job, I agree with Phat_Penguin 100%. I feel bad for the officer being sued and for the family that lost their dog. It's unfortunate.

These investigators also puzzle me a great deal. How heavy can a wallet to stay on top of a moving vehicle at highway speed? I have a hardtime keeping my helmet on. Go figure :\

When this event was reported i browsed to the locale where it happened. The HP was the 'assist' to the primary jurisdiction, and it was the HP that released their in-car tape of the event shortly after. The locals (where it happened) were after the primary officer's blood after viewing the news clip (singular, there, btw). The previous two dogs the primary officer had dispatched was one requested by the owner, and another that had gone mad. Anyway, that's how i remember them being reported. Like Phat_Penguin, i'll reserve judgement from my vantage point 1,800 miles away until the local inquiry concludes. After reading the local news from that area, i Googled the phrases "cop shoots dog", and "dog bites cop". Surprising how many around the country were listed, and that doesn't even count the small town papers that are not on-line. Seems some folks keep dogs around as a first-line defence from people like police. Seems some of the police have gotten wise to that practice.
A couple weeks ago a large dog (90+lb) got loose in the neighborhood and was slobbering and chasing everyone on the street, even the cars. i didn't have time to get my pepper-spray as i saw a young school girl headed into the block unaware of the dog who at the time was chasing a man back into his house. As the girl got closer the dog headed for her and i ran out into the street to get between her and the dog, yelling at her to cross the street and get behind me. She started running across, and the dog finally turned towards me as a target. If i'd have had my pepper-spray i'd have used it. If i'd have had a gun it would have been pointed at the dog. With neither in hand, all i could do was stand my ground and not let the dog presume dominance over me, be mentally prepared to take damage while disabling the dog, and sue the s#1t out of the owners after it was all over. The little girl got away, the dog challenged me in the center of the road until the animal-control (a joke term around here) rolled up. The dog finally broke eye contact with me and headed back to where it came from, snarling all the way. The police finally got their noose-sticks and backed the animal into a corner and snared it. They were extremely concerned for thier own safety.
There are a certain number of people who buy, raise, and train large dogs simply for the purpose of aggression, but call it self-defence. Witness for example the recent event in SFO where the pair of fighting dogs from next-door tore the woman apart at her apartment door. Those dogs were being raised by people who knew their only purpose was aggression, and they were breeding/raising them for other people who knew they were only for aggression.
If i was a cop on duty, there is no way i'd allow anyone's dog to bite me.
But that is just my comments on the dog-shooting.
I have a hard time believing the stop in the first place was made with good procedure, perhaps the officers got bum-dope from the dispatcher... but that's up to the investigation panel now.
Like Phat_Penguin says; 'i'll wait for the enquiry to finish'.
Definitely not a good day for anyone involved.
*************edit**************
O.K., thanks I.T.G., i had not seen the video before because i didn't have a player. Just downloaded MSplayer9 to view the THP video. Here's my take for what it's worth: First off, apparently the dispatcher had called this as a "possible bank robbery" from some form of osmosis between dispatch and a phone call from citizen who didn't know anything either except that some money had been seen coming from the vehicle. Second, this was an obvious felony stop, the cops responding knew nothing except what dispatch told them. The problem with the video is that you cannot see far enough to the right to judge the officer's response: The dog comes prancing (as close a term as i can think of right now) out of the car, tail wagging in the air and head high, then disappears off screen. The next thing you see is an officer who had not been in the frame before come dancing backwards into view while shooting, apparently at the animal. officer #2 swings towards the dog also as #1 is shooting, but officer #2 does not fire, because he does not slide his shotgun action to reload before turning back to the stop at hand. Ergo, officer #1 is the only one who shot the dog. Unless the dog suddenly changed attitudes between the time it left the video frame and the time officer #1 came dancing backwards while firing, it is hard to say what precipitated all the hot lead. One thing is for sure; none of us were there to see what actually happened to give the officer cause to drop the hammer. i had expected to see a much different type (and size) of dog from the descriptions of the mix-breed.
And for my opinion on this, along with a buck, you can get a coke out of most machines.

I agree with those who "wont Judge the officer without knowing the story" and having been there. I applaud you actually, If all citizens were more like you, the world would be a better place. I am a law enforcement individual. I have yet to be hired. I have been through the academy, and although I dont have street experience, I REALLY can say this job is going to be tough. I dont think the general public has a full understanding of what the job entails. They see us at the worst times, in their eyes. They see us as we hand them the ticket, as we arrest them for DUI, or other charges, as we interfere with thier "fun". What you do NOT hear is the public saying Im glad that officer was there when I needed him/her. Im glad that officer responded to the medical emergency and did what he could till the paramedics showed up. Im gald that officer had to go and mediate yet another abusive dispute where mom and dad are beating the hell out of each other in front of the kids. Im glad that officer steped in to deal with the raging drunk that spit in his face and puked on him. -- you get the picture.
The general public dislikes being told what to do, or in general, those with the power to interfere with thier "freedom" and "rights". The general public has a made-for-TV education on local laws and many disformed ideas on what cops can and cant do. The next time one of you says "I hate all the cops" do me a favor. Dont call. Do not call the police when you need help. You hate us all. We suck. We are *******s. We give you tickets and arrest "good people for **** that could have been avoided".
Or better yet, pick up a gun, and a badge. Go out there and face the public. Deal with those who hate you because of your job. For those of you who "Hate all cops" Id live to meet you as a plain clothed civillian. Introduce my self as such, get to know you and hell even become friends with you, then tell you Im a cop. COPS ARE PEOPLE WITH LIVES TOO.
And for the individual who was glad a cop gets killed every 57 hours or whatever it was (your not worth quoting directly) kindly shove it as many times as it takes.
A cop is someone who will go above and beyond what he has to do to make you "cop-haters" safe. Are we all perfect. HELL NO. But we are in the magnifying glass. Think about your careers/work enviroments. Is there someone there who doesnt do the job well? Someone who should be fired? someone who shouldnt be there? A boss who treats you badly? Others badly? Hey what do you know, I bet you can think of someone like that, even in other work enviroments. NO ONE IS PERFECT. Yeah, some people shouldnt be cops, some cant handle it. Some are too power hungry. But that DOES NOT mean make a blanket statement.
The media loves to smear a cop. They love "dirty laundry". How many times do you see a cop awarded a medal on national TV? Or even just told he did a good job, or given a promotion? never. Why? its not good for ratings. No one cares. Its not "hot" or "bad". What did everyone do when they saw the cute little puppy get killed? "Ooooh! did you see what that ***** did??"
And how many did they talk to about it? as sex sells, so does dirt.
Maybe the cop screwed up, I wasnt there. I dont know all the sides. I dont care. his superiors will handle this. And this is the "third dog he killed". yep, so? How many criminals has he arrested? Duis off the street? hostile situations averted? drugs confiscated? whats his full record? No one knows. We know he killed a dog. 3 actually. Because the media loves the negative news. Its hot and sells. How much coverage did you all see of the WTC? Did anyone else see the media circus roll up as fast as it could? Yeah, it was a BIG story. Most of the media get a gleam in their eye as they cover it, becuase its hot. Well I think Ive ranted enough. Stop forming blanket opinions of officers, ESPECIALLY if you havent been there.
oh and by the way: I know about 10 cops that are *******S!! but 10 cops verses those I know, and those I have to meet yet, and those all around the country dont mean **** to me. of the 10, 2 are still on the force.

Quote:

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I have yet to be hired. I have been through the academy, and although I dont have street experience, I REALLY can say this job is going to be tough. I dont think the general public has a full understanding of what the job entails.

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Ok folks lets anaylise this thread a bit...Let me start by saying that I am an adult male 42 years old, no military experience, no law enforcement experience, no criminal experience. I was born on the East Side of Los Angelos, CA. I had to deal with the gangs and violence as a daily occurance. For example my first day in high school I had to dodge bullets being volleyed by gangsters from a rival school driving by in their "low-riders". After they passed on by I brushed the dirt off the knees of my new school jeans and continued on like nothing ever happened. (as did everyone else) The police always wear hard helmuts and carried big guns (44mags mostly) They have to because teenagers are carrying weapons just as big or bigger and congregate in packs of 25 or more. I would not even suggest a person to be a cop in LA, because as one your life is marked with a bullseye on your forhead. The average officer in that area move on after 10 years or so to do something else somewhere else or s/he dies in the streets. This ain't bullsh*t either, ask one of them someday. Because of this the candidates for employment are generally the school bullies, the nerf brained ex-football jocks who have been tackled one too many times, reformed criminals, tough guys hardened because they were mistreated as children... These are the only people either brave enough or stupid enough to enforce laws in those areas. Growing up as a street kid, let me tell you, I was 10 times more afraid of the local residents than I ever was of the cops. Don't misconstue this statement that I was not afraid of the cops, they would gang up on weekend partiers outnumber us 3 to 1 and beat us with sticks and tear gas grenades if we didn't move exactly the way they wanted us to. I too hated the "pigs" (no offense to our law enforcement officials here)

18 years ago I packed up my wife and son and moved to a small town in the midwest and carved out my niche here. The law here are more afraid of answering domestic squabbles here than anything else. they carry small arms and I have never seen one wear a hard helmut, the problem here is that they are all corrupt, if they are like avenger_jcc or Phat_Penguin when they first come on duty, they will either learn to be corrupt or they will quit and become truck drivers and carpenters or buy a farm. I have been told by my local heads of law around here to be sure that I drag the body inside my house, to place a weapon menacingly in their cold hand, and clean up any telltale blood from outside the front door BEFORE calling 911 so I can't be accidentally accused of foul play, this way it is self defense straight up. Here I AM more afraid of the law than I am the criminals. Most of the criminals I know have been forced into it by either the Division of Family Services or the court system. DFS will take kids away from good parents and split up siblings from their homes and stability, and the courts will put the parents in jail, charge them for boarding, cause them to lose their jobs so they can't pay their bills or show any kind of stability to DFS so they can get their kids back, and be placed back in jail for nonpayment of their court-ordered fines and trump up the charges even higher so they will forever be in debt to this county and its corrupted system. This then creates a hardened, pi**ed off at the world, soon to blow individual, that will most likely, out of desparation and lack of respect for the system kill or seriously harm somebody for stepping too close to him in the grocery store.

As for the dog getting shot...If he was afraid of that little dog, he needs to rethink his career choices, if he did it because he is a power hungry as*hole he needs to die...plain and simple!

Quote:

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Or better yet, pick up a gun, and a badge. Go out there and face the public. Deal with those who hate you because of your job. For those of you who "Hate all cops" Id live to meet you as a plain clothed civillian. Introduce my self as such, get to know you and hell even become friends with you, then tell you Im a cop. COPS ARE PEOPLE WITH LIVES TOO.

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I see entrapment, conditioned by training and brainwashing, this scares the hell out of me!

Quote:

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Well I think Ive ranted enough. Stop forming blanket opinions of officers, ESPECIALLY if you havent been there. oh and by the way: I know about 10 cops that are *******S!! but 10 cops verses those I know, and those I have to meet yet, and those all around the country dont mean **** to me. of the 10, 2 are still on the force.

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You sound like a truley dangerous individual in this statement. (please don't take offense ) I am sure that avenger_jcc is a very noble person with a goal to uphold the law, and for truth, justice, and the American Way... today.

Quote:

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I have been a street cop for over 20 years - I am not some pup who fell out of the police academy last week and the difference between you and me I dont wish harm on anyone, regardless of where they come from or who they are. Hate is a very strong word and in the end self-destructive.

I have never used a gun, mace, baton or any other form of force on any person - see my most powerful weapon is my mouth - the ability to communicate with people on all levels has saved me from having to resort to methods preferred by others who dont have the ability to talk to people.

Since cops are an extension of the community they serve, it stands to reason - rough neighbourhood - rough cops - sad fact of life and a shame, but true. I find treating people the same way you yourself would like to be treated goes a long way - and that works both ways. Treat cops like **** all the time and what do you really from them in expect in return - and the same goes for them - treat you like **** all the time - what can they expect of you.

Remember it is very hard to be angry to someone who is extending the hand of friendship and being respectful. Maybe its time for someone to bite the bullet and stop the circle of hate/violence.

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My hats off to you sir, you have been blessed by a good locale and much less volitile local population. Stay where you are, live long and prosper....

I doubt seriously if my rantings in this thread will do any good, and it will probably make some people mad, but this country needs to turn its focus on its own domestics, study the different cultures and live with the low income people for a while and get to know them and see things through other eyes, or this country and all that it stands for will slowly and methodically self destruct...

- aeallison

Wow..I'm not even going to read the restof this. I can't believe this.. one word comes to mind. RETARDED. anyone seen bowling for columbine. No offence to the yankees on this board, and i'm going to get negged to death, but I don't care.. You people need serious gun control and that includes your law enforcement officials, you people are way too Shoot first ask questions later. Meh just like everytihng else... oh well.. Neg away!

Avenger: You sound a little too angry about this subject. I question your ability to hold yourself in check, (as you are supposed to do), when you actually meet one of those "cop haters" face to face in the heat of the moment.

Many years ago I was in Belize, CA flying helicopters for the RAF. We provided Search and Rescue for the entire, predominantly jungle covered, country where the Army operated. Belize has more "bitey" creatures that you can shake a stick at and many are extremely dangerous requiring the SAR aircraft to be there in the absolute minimum amount of time. The accommodations were situated 1 1/2 miles around the airfield from the aircraft hangers and in an area at the back of the accomodations was the laundry which had been having soldiers gear being stolen from it for some weeks and nothing had been achieved by the Royal Military Police officers stationed there.

One day a medevac call came in for a snakebite deep in the jungle. Time is _absolutely_ of the essence. The ground crew get called first and, with a huge big "SAR" plate on the front of their vehicle begins to travel to the aircraft to drag it out and prep it for the aircrew who are called second with the required info to get them to the target.

Well, the RMP's had a new toy - a radar gun - and the speed limit on camp is 15 mph. The dear sweet unpaid, unwanted Corporal RMP leaps out in front of the groundcrew vehicle and stopped it. He gleefully informed the driver that he was exceeding the speed limit by travelling at 17 mph...... 2 damn miles per hour over.... He then proceeded to lean on the front of the vehicle to fill out his paperwork..... Being military paperwork it is both lengthy and being filled out by a person with an IQ lower than would probably be optimal. After several minutes he returned to the window for further details at which point the driver said "I suppose this means you have caught the ******* stealing all our kit from the laundry" and promptly drove off.

When we, (the aircrew), arrived at the hanger the aircraft was still not pulled out and prepped. Our launch was delayed some eight or nine minutes. That is 8 or 9 minutes that the highly trained medic we take with us on snakebite calls was late to the victim...... That amount of time with certain of the snakes in that theater makes the difference between the soldier surviving or dying..... This time the RMP was lucky.... The bite was from a fairly benign but still poisonous snake and the victim was not allergic.

Upon my return I was approached by the driver and asked if I could help him with the RMP issue he now faced - the traffic ticket had now escalated - obviously. I negotiated with their boss and all charges were dropped on this occasion and for the future the RMP's were ordered that if SAR vehicles were travelling outbound they were to turn a blind eye - if they were going any other direction - they were fair game.

The point of the whole story: The general perception amongst the "civilian" population is that there are crimes upon crimes taking place in our communities many of which go unresolved. On many occasions we are told that you don't have the manpower to investigate this or that. When we do get any satisfaction upon filing a complaint the process requires a ton of time and effort on our part only to see it shelved a week later. But just wait till you go 7 miles per hour over the speed limit...... WTF is that all about..... There are plently of cops sitting by the roadside with their radar on who are only too willing to drop a ticket on you for such petty ****. Yet we are told that the manpower is lacking or there is nothing we can do about X, Y or Z. So the phrase "I suppose this means you have caught all the drug dealers, pimps and murderers......." always jumps to my mind when I see the traffic stops and the other, (revenue generating), crap that goes on.

Don't be surprised if you are disliked when you bother people for little stuff and give a darned fine impression to many that you can't handle the tougher stuff or that you can't be bothered to try.

RIDER: This is not so much a criticism of police but the administrators above who prioritize their tasks. I have the utmost respect for most police officers. But I can understand why your reputation is somewhat tarnished and it is up to you to alter that image. You don't _have_ to issue that ticket..... A warning usually suffices with most law abiding citizens.... So issue the warning..... If your boss doesn't like the amount of revenue you are generating then tough **** - go and catch some real criminals and he can't really say ****, can he?

okay, this is not an attack on cops, but why are they not so helpful anymore? It is about as rare to see a cop help someone as it is to see another person to help someone broke down on the side of the road. On my way into work this morning I was almost in an accident. A guy was broke down in the middle of the road on a blind curve and two cops passed me prior to me making it to that curve. Why wouldn't one pull a couple feet back behind him a run his flashers till a tow truck came or something. Also I was at a show and towards the end a couple guys 2 or 3 cars would not start, so one of the guys asked an officer for assistance, the officer agreed and then 5 mins later you see all three cars dispearse and two went up the street and parked, the guys walked up the street to inquire again and there is one cop getting coffee and the other said we are busy right now. during the 45 mins they sat there the cops continued to "read the newspapper and drink coffee" and then drove away.

avenger you are good at dodging bullets obviously, the way you implied people but never said names or gave quotes. ill tell you what though, everything you said just reinforced EVERYTHING that i said. listen to your self. if you gonna be a good cop good, great, grand. but if it pisses you off so bad that there are people out there like me then what you should be doing is getting your self into some kinda politcal position so that other cops, like every single one ive encournted has been, are no longer allowed to be on the force. instead of blaming me and people with my views, you need to be taking a look at yourself. if i was the only person in the country that hated cops then i would just be dumb, BUT, when you start getting millions of people saying the same thing then theres obviously a problem and btw aeallison i know exactly where your comin from. sounds like you and me grew up in the same conditions just on opposit sides of the country, which only goes to prove a point. that corruption and over reacting cops arent just a problem in one place, its everywhere.and i will not post in this thread again, but i will part with one more thought, the public(and by that i mean people that do not involve themselves with murder or rape etc,etc those people do deserve to be locked up) are not the ones that grain it into your guyses heads that your job is dangerous, you guys do it to your self. your told from the moment that you get in the academy that you will get shot if... or you will mess up if you think..... and you guys start to believe it so much that every person you encounter is a criminal before you even get to asess the problem. and what are you taught to do to criminals, beat them, shoot them, f--k up there lives etc, etc, i take a look at myself everyday and think to myself, what can i do to make my life better. you cops should be sayin the same thing about the people you help, what can you do as a person, not a cop to make that persons life better, cause your supposed to keep them safe right? well keeping them safe is the same as making there life better, so before you bust the kid doin 60 in a 65 when no one else is on the road, think is me givin this kid a ticket gonna help anything? probably not. anyways im done, im sure everyone hass gotten my point so ill shutup and go away.take it easy people.

Well I can see the amount of narrow minded people we have here. For those of you who feel I wouldnt be able to keep my cool when faced with a cop hater, heh. Whatever. You have a opinion, and you have a right to hate me. you have a right to hate any cop, based on what some cop has done in the past. You have the right to spit on me because I pull you over for breaking the law. *shrug* you can go on hating cops. I honestly dont care, it just shows that your biased. Ive had bad expierences with medical personel. Guess they are all *******s. Ive had bad experiences with my military captain. All captains are *****s, right? no. Ive met some wonderful medical people, and some wonderful military people in my career in the army. So what do I think? Each person is a different one, and each one gets their own judgement. I try t remain as open as I can to each person. But when someone is as closed minded to a entire group of people because of something some INDIVIDUAL did... well that irratates me. Now as I said that would not mean my actions toward the person would be unjust.
And for those of you who have such a problem with traffic stops ("I suppose this means you have caught all the drug dealers, pimps and murderers.......") the majority of them are found while driving. its called a warrant check, a vehicle search, and a registration check. Do I agree with all the citations given out? Nope. Ive recieved lots when I dont think I should have, but I do agree I was breaking the law. Follow the laws and unless you were a real ******* the NORMAL cop wont bother you. Again, there are cops that dont belong in the job. but there are some of us who go the extra mile to attempt to fight the corruption, and make up for those of us who refuse to live up to the standards the job implies.
Now, form all your opinions of me if you want. But I intend to do the job the best I can, and I intend to make as much of a difference as I can. And for those of you who hate me for what I do, and not who I am, thats your right. Do as you must. Ill still do my job to serve you, and protect you, as my job mandates. Thats because its my job that I chose, and I chose this because I grew up around corrupt cops. I intend to try to break that circle.

Ive done enough posting on this, feel free to continue to rag on me as I stand for those of you officers out there who do the job right. I dont care. they dont care. they will do the job to the best of thier ability, hated or not. And for those of you who tarnish the image (you know who you are) shape up. take some pride in what you do and help to restore the american publics trust.

avenger_jcc,

I think you may have gotten the wrong impression of my post, for that I am sorry. I do not hate cops in general. It is just that my past and present experiences are not real good. As for you personally I do believe you at what you are saying. I am a member of an advocate group of citizens
in my community that see to it that our law enforcement, city and county officials, etc ... Don't misuse or abuse our resources, or our citizens. I could write a book on the blatant misuse of city and county funds, of mistreatment of the local populace ranging from harrassment to murder, Con artists are allowed to con our citizens just because their Daddy was a member of the HomeTown Boys, cops collect on traffic tickets from underage girls in the city park. The law here starts on brainwashing our children from gradeschool on up, they start off with scaring the little kids with their D.A.R.E. program and many of these kids have turned in their parents to the authorities because they "think" their parents are breaking laws, only to be placed in a foster home for even worse abuse. By the time our children are young adults, they are so intimidated by these power mongers that they make every effort to leave this town. My own son is soon to be 21 and still does not drive, he has never gotten his license, because he is afraid of the possibility that he will be harrassed like his friends are, only my son would not take it lying down, I would be bailing out of jail for assault on an officer. Every person that has come here with your hopes and dreams has either been corrupted, run off, or worse...

I have very good friends in law enforcement, my cousin is an assistant prosecuting attourney in St. Louis. I would be a deputy myself if our dept wasn't a bunch of puppets tied to a puppet master who is un-touchable...

- aeallison

I love the statement "I grew up in a tough neighborhood", especially when they come from someone living in North America. I wonder what kids in some countries would say to you.

You hear gunshots at night or get harassed by the cops on the street or have to make sure you aren't wearing certain colors on certain streets or there are a dozen murders on your street in a year. What a ****ing joke. Go live your life in a place where there are no neighborhoods to live in. Where the "law" don't harass you, they just shoot you. Go live your life in a place where you're lucky if you can choose what clothes to wear, or any at all. You hear gunshots at night? Big ****in deal. Grow up in a place where there are bombs going off at night. A dozen or more people got killed on your street last year? Live in a place where a dozen neighbors are killed in one week.

There are places on this planet where the people would love to have cops in the streets. North Americans wouldn't know a tough neighborhood if it crept up and bit them in the ass. Take any North American gang and throw them in the middle of a jungle in some God forsaken place and see who gives a **** about what they stand for.

Aeallison:

Its very saddening to hear of a case such as that, and to tell you the truth, it makes me sick. yours is the example of why some fear and hate law enforcement. I hope with all my heart that soon something will change. but if its as deep as you say it is, until someone stands up and takes the hit for saying its wrong, it wont happen. problem with that is too often the good-intentioned officer is bullied by his superiors. To be honest, I wont be. If my department is really that screwed up, I will definately move out. Id say Id stay and blow the whistle, but one person against a department... heh. the obvious answer is to silence the one. But I truly feel bad about your situation. Im glad you cleared up your post. I have the feeling some here have the wrong feeling about me too. some here are afraid for some reason of what I say. Im just passionate about not judging all for the actions of one or some. (see prejudice) But I am glad to see you wont form the opinion of all the cops. thats good of you, especially when it must be very fustrating and very easy to feel negatively.

Avenger

firestarter,

And while we are at it lets throw in all of those da*n cops and politicians. I would be happy to buy you a one way ticket to this nifty little subdivision in North America known as Compton. This place is our Jungle...wanna try it? You won't need a two way ticket cause you would never come back.

<edit>
avenger_jcc,

I and a few of my friends, one is running for Mayor in the next election, and another is running for District Representative, I have been asked to run for south County Comissioner.( I don't have time for that responsibility right now.) We have all recieved death threats if we continue to step on toes...we forced the present Mayor to step down, now we are working on the city council and the zoning and planning comission. Wish us luck ;) My cousin had to clean up his home county too about 10 years ago...he put 2 judges in prison before it was all done. This area has been this way since the 1890's when we were supposed to have a railway brought through town and one of our city officials absconded with the money and burned the courthouse to the ground to cover his tracks. (pardon the pun) this area is predominantly olds masons and triple k...we don't have any minorities here.

Firestarter:

As someone who has taught jungle survival, played soldiers against drug and gun runners there and stood on the streets of Belfast wondering if a set of sights was set on the middle of my chest or if a rock was en route to my head I can assure you I would _much_ rather be in the jungle! I would suggest on the other hand that someone from Canada had better have a whole lot of experience outside Canada before you make posts such as that...... Care to enlighten us all.....

Avenger:

I don't hate any police officers - good or bad - in fact, I don't hate anyone. Hate is a waste of emotion and the energy wasted is better put to use rectifying the situation.....

Re: Your comment "And for those of you who have such a problem with traffic stops......the majority of them are found while driving." I would suggest that the percentage of traffic stops that result in anything other than a traffic ticket or warning are close to zero..... But I will also suggest that the amount of traffic stops that take place in jurisdictions where one's attempt to file a valid complaint are met with resistance and excuses as to why they can't follow up or are dropped with no satisfactory conclusion average out in the 50th percentile. If you cannot see the damage that does to your reputation then you have my sympathy.

"You really need to bite your f*****g toungue ***hole this type of language is not proper for children and you know they are going to read this post of yours, next time hide your post so youngsters can't see it! - aeallison"...Thanks for the Neg by the way. Love the colorful language. Pot - Kettle - Black? :) (Improper language edited by Firestarter5)

It's refreshing to see a few of you didn't understand my post. Let me enlighten you. Not once did I say that I've lived in worse areas or neighborhoods. I simply stated that compared to "rough" neighborhoods in North America, there are other places on this planet that would make Compton seem like a paradise. In the year 2000 the pop. of the USA was 281,421,900. There were 15,520 murders. In 1999 the pop. of South Africa was 43,054,000. They had 52,485 murders. Do the math. I hear they have property for sale.

Quote:

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"You really need to bite your f*****g toungue ***hole this type of language is not proper for children and you know they are going to read this post of yours, next time hide your post so youngsters can't see it! - aeallison"...Thanks for the Neg by the way. Love the colorful language. Pot - Kettle - Black? (Improper language edited by Firestarter5)

It's refreshing to see a few of you didn't understand my post. Let me enlighten you. Not once did I say that I've lived in worse areas or neighborhoods. I simply stated that compared to "rough" neighborhoods in North America, there are other places on this planet that would make Compton seem like a paradise. In the year 2000 the pop. of the USA was 281,421,900. There were 15,520 murders. In 1999 the pop. of South Africa was 43,054,000. They had 52,485 murders. Do the math. I hear they have property for sale.

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I understood your post quite well, I just don't believe you have any idea what life is like in our larger inner cities. I was not afraid to live there, heck I was born and raised there, I didn't know any other life existed. If you had knowledge of living amongst that kind of violence and crime you would never have said what you did. I don't discount my views because of your ignorance.

As for the negs... you got them for your "colorful language" not the content of your post.

Firestarter: I guess you did enlighten us all and dazzle us with your scintillating wit, charm and intellect. You clearly haven't left the warm and cozy confines of your very peaceful country to witness what occurs elsewhere otherwise you would probably be a little less dense.

You quote meaningless figures that imply that SA has a much higher murder rate but you don't think about why...... Since you seem to have no experience of foreign countries read this to educate yourself on a slight difference in culture. I can assure you that SA is not a particularly dangerous place.... In fact in the last six months my brother and his new wife, my cousin, his wife and two children, my mother and father and one of my uncles and aunts have all visited SA, (an aggregate total of some 4 months in country), and not one reported any violence or crime. The article sheds light on why.....

In a culture such as SA the violence is fairly evenly spread across the country as a whole, yes there will be some pockets that are worse than others but the nature of the violence is more personal and more culturally rooted thus is will be more widespread. OTOH, places like Washington DC, north Philly and Detroit, (all cities that I have lived in or around for periods in excess of a year and up to 10 years), concentrate the violence and the violence is of a less personal nature, (IOW, I am much more likely to be killed by a stranger in those places than I am in SA). That's a different kind of threat and a different kind of violence.

So, in my opinion, your statements, (aside from being brash and bordering on plain rude), are not founded in any basis of thought or experience but are simply the meanderings of someone who is trying to inflame a conversation that, (due to your ignorance and unthinking manner), you had no business participating in from the get-go.

You really need to get out more before you begin butting into conversations in ways that belittle your probable intelligence.

I defense of Firestarter, there are places, many of them both in "civilised" countries and others that are very different and very violent from our own. Places where survival is fighting over a tiny drink of water that is uncontaminated or getting a piece of bread to eat.