Printable View
Last Wednesday, Colin Powell asked extra attention from the Security Council for a report from the British "intelligence" services. He thanked the UK for their 'exquisit' report on the Iraqi misguidance of UN inspectors. Not that big a deal... untill someone discovered they made a mistake. A big one. See for yourself:
The British report
Now let's compare that to this text:
Report written by Ibrahim al-Marashi, an Iraq-American student, in September last year
British intelligence my a@@
Well history learns that is politics... Pushing as hard as you can in a direction you want to. I already read on many places now the so called "evidence" is outdated, vague, non official, copied and etc. I don't suply links, find them yerself. It's in dutch newspapers, if you get those.
I think this points to this that the only motivation to even bother attacking Iraq is an economical one. Political and other wars mostly are about economical things... Well that's our world ... Political leaders of two of the most powerfull nations on earth showing student reports (with all grammatical and spelling mistakes included) as evidence to attack another nation...
Have a nice day.
As the British we know everything that goes on !
Hey Neg,
I dont know if you read my post yesterday,
http://www.antionline.com/showthread...588#post600588
but I totally agree with you, Tony Blair and Bush are expecting their citizens to be total idiots and accept anything they publish. And they expect the parliament to vote on war based on this information ?
Surprisingly there are some gullible citizens who believe and support it!
It’s a bit worrying!!!
Dr_Evil
Hilarious and yet ridiculous for most of the actors ...
i just hope that the public demonstration last weekend would have taught something to some leaders...
but let's observe the future a bit:
-Autralia: their prime minister got censured by the parlement because he sent troups without their acknowledgement... after the protest and demonstration of this weekend, i don't think that the prime minister will have much of a future (in politics there ..)
-UK: blair is in big trouble, he is in complete opposition with his people which would only be openminded to a fully backed UN operation. out of the window blair, plus the economy is bad oups that's everywhere...
-spain: dito with aznar ( btw spain is a republic accoriding to bush; jeff not jw so i guess it runs in the family: they know and understand nothing outisde of the states)
-france: go chirac! most popular as ever but he cannot afford to put a veto at the UN after all it's just iraq.
-turquey: they are so scared of iraq that they are ocupying some of northern iraq's border you know those famous no fly zone (not sanctioned by the UN) even belgium could not buy that one.
(As for the secretary of nato he is a goner and that's it he has no weight no matter what)
-"the new europe" they will have to deal with angered french& german negotiators for all negs in europe oupsiiii needless to say that the Us cannot help them there ...
And finaly the biggest winner is
-US:bush cannot back out becasue he spent too much $$$ sending at least 100 000 gi's there and they cannot come back empty handed... i mean the oil field are right there !
also he'd look like a fool (wait he already does) and getting a man like collin powel humiliated in public is not good for bush. can he afford to back out no so he will do it and yes the us will invade iraq but it will cost them so much in negociation concession that the price $$ might be too big. To get a new resolution will require 11 votes out of the 15 possible. Right now the us have 2 (themselves and uk) that's a lot of cash to spend there....
Er.... Neg old chap..... dear moderator..... <snikker>
Look here
Specifically see my answer..... It might shed a little light on a possible answer to this apparent embarrassment......
I have just read the news.
Strangely, the journalists think the situation has been totally changed by the public manifestations of this week (it has been the first time I read a good opinion about Chirac in an international journal for a very long time now).
But Bush repeats he will attack again and again. It must be an obsession. Perhaps we should advice him to consult a psychiatrist.
KC
I received this in an email. An american sympathizer... FINALLY
Thank God that somebody gets it!
Subject: FW: Good reading...letter from England
No matter your views on President Bush's stand regarding potential war with IRAQ, this, from an English journalist, is very interesting. For those of you who aren't familiar with the UK's Daily Mirror, this is a notoriously left-wing daily that is normally not supportive of the Colonials across the Atlantic.
SHAME ON YOU AMERICAN-HATING LIBERALS
Tony Parsons, Daily Mirror September 11, 2002
ONE year ago, the world witnessed a unique kind of broadcasting -- the mass murder of thousands, live on television. As a lesson in the pitiless cruelty of the human race, September 11 was up there with Pol Pot's mountain of skulls in Cambodia, or the skeletal bodies stacked like garbage in the Nazi concentration
camps. An unspeakable act so cruel, so calculated and so utterly merciless that surely the world could agree on one thing - nobody deserves this fate. Surely there could be consensus: the victims were truly innocent, the perpetrators truly evil.
But to the world's eternal shame, 9/11 is increasingly seen as America's comeuppance. Incredibly, anti-Americanism has increased over the last year.
There has always been a simmering resentment to the USA in this country too loud, too rich, too full of themselves and so much happier than Europeans but it has become an epidemic. And it seems incredible to me. More than that, it turns my stomach.
America is this country's greatest friend and our staunchest ally. We are bonded to the US by culture, language and blood. A little over half a century ago, around half a million Americans died for our freedoms, as well as their own. Have we forgotten so soon? And exactly a year ago, thousands of
ordinary men, women and children - not just Americans, but from dozens of countries were butchered by a small group of religious fanatics. Are we so quick to betray them?
What touched the heart about those who died in the twin towers and on the planes was that we recognized them. Young fathers and mothers, somebody's son and somebody's daughter, husbands and wives, and children, some unborn.
And these people brought it on themselves? And their nation is to blame for their meticulously planned slaughter?
These days you don't have to be some dust-encrusted nut job in Kabul or Karachi or Finsbury Park to see America as the Great Satan. The anti-American alliance is made up of self-loathing liberals who blame the Americans for every ill in the Third World, and conservatives suffering from power-envy, bitter
that the world's only superpower can do what it likes without having to ask permission. The truth is that America has behaved with enormous restraint since September 11.
Remember, remember.
Remember the gut-wrenching tapes of weeping men phoning their wives to say, "I love you," before they were burned alive.
Remember those people leaping to their deaths from the top of burning skyscrapers.
Remember the hundreds of firemen buried alive. Remember the smiling face of that beautiful little girl who was on one of the planes with her mum.
Remember, remember - and realize that America has never retaliated for 9/11 in anything like the way it could have.
So a few al-Qaeda tourists got locked without a trial in Camp X-ray? Pass the Kleenex...
So some Afghan wedding receptions were shot up after they merrily fired their semi-automatics in a sky full of American planes? A shame, but maybe next time they should stick to confetti.
AMERICA could have turned a large chunk of the world into a parking lot. That it didn't is a sign of strength. American voices are already being raised against attacking Iraq - that's what a democracy is for. How many in the Islamic world will have a minute's silence for the slaughtered innocents of 9/11? How many Islamic leaders will have the guts to say that the mass murder of 9/11 was an abomination?
When the news of 9/11 broke on the West Bank, those freedom-loving Palestinians were dancing in the street. America watched all of that - and didn't push the button. We should thank the stars that America is the most powerful nation in the world. I still find it incredible that 9/11 did not provoke all-out
war.
Not a "war on terrorism." A real war.
The fundamentalist dudes are talking about "opening the gates of hell," if America attacks Iraq. Well, America could have opened the gates of hell like you wouldn't believe. The US is the most militarily powerful nation that ever strode the face of the earth. The campaign in Afghanistan may have been
less than perfect and the planned war on Iraq may be misconceived.
But don't blame America for not bringing peace and light to these wretched
countries. How many democracies are there in the Middle East, or in the
Muslim
world? You can count them on the fingers of one hand - assuming you haven't
had
any chopped off for minor shoplifting.
I love America, yet America is hated. I guess that makes me Bush's poodle.
But I would rather be a dog in New York City than a Prince in Riyadh. Above all, America is hated because it is what every country wants to be - rich, free, strong, open, and optimistic. Not ground down by the past, or religion, or some caste system. America is the best friend this country ever had and we
should start remembering that.
Or do you really think the USA is the root of all evil? Tell it to the loved ones of the men and women who leaped to their death from the burning towers. Tell it to the nursing mothers whose husbands died on one of the hijacked planes, or were ripped apart in a collapsing skyscraper. And tell it to the hundreds of young widows whose husbands worked for the New York Fire Department.
To our shame, George Bush gets a worse press than Saddam Hussein. Once we were told that Saddam gassed the Kurds, tortured his own people and set up rape-camps in Kuwait. Now we are told he likes Quality Street. Save me the orange center, oh mighty one!
Remember, remember, September 11. One of the greatest atrocities in human history was committed against America.
No, do more than remember. Never forget
Hey, Negative. How do I give every antipoint I have ever had to one person?
No matter how much crap I take for having a baseless argument (even though it's only my opinion) I will always be a proud American. Always.
peace
I will never forget.
Sorry this is little off topic here but I felt I should point this out this from Negatives post:
A student ? Where did it say he was a student ? At the bottom of the report it says;Quote:
Report written by Ibrahim al-Marashi, an Iraq-American student, in September last year
I know what a lecturer is but a Research Associate ?? - I might be old and sometimes not all that wise - so I checked up on what is needed to qualify as a Research Associate in a selected field and found this for a Research Associate with LifeSpan BioSciences Tissue Bank to give me some sort of idea:Quote:
Ibrahim al-Marashi is a research associate at the Center for Non-Proliferation Studies in Monterey, California as well as a lecturer at the US Naval Postgraduate School. He is currently working on a project on Iraqi intelligence operations in northern Iraq and Kuwait.
Source: http://www.oregon-bioscience.com/showjob?jobid=1263Quote:
Qualifications:
* Bachelor's Degree (B.S.) in related field.
* Knowledge of vertebrate anatomy required.
* Knowledge of pathology procedures, medical terminology, and histology procedures preferred.
* PC skills including MS Excel, email, and experience using search tools.
* Data entry skills preferred.
* Detail oriented, organized, adaptable, and flexible.
* Strong interpersonal and communication skills.
* Ability to work well independently and as a member of a team.
* Microscopy experience helpful.
Whoever quoted Mr Ibrahim al-Marashi a student, may not be doing him or his work justice, the man is obviously qualified in his field of expertise beyond that of a student - please tell me if I am wrong.
Found this here on the man:
Source: http://cns.miis.edu/cns/staff/mara.htmQuote:
Ibrahim Marashi is a Research Associate at the Center for Nonproliferation Studies (CNS) of the Monterey Institute of International Studies. His research focuses on the diffusion of nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons and missile technologies in the Middle East, particularly Iraq and Iran.
Marashi received a MA in Political Science at the Arab Studies Center at Georgetown in 1997. He has a BA in History and Near Eastern Studies from the University of California Los Angeles.
Prior to joining CNS, Marashi worked with the Center for Middle Eastern Studies at Harvard University on a project classifying captured Iraqi state documents. He was also a researcher on Iran-Iraq affairs at the US State Department, Congressional Research Service, and National Defense University.
Looks to me that the man may know his subject matter but whether a government should use the material without consultation with the author as to recency and correctness - well that another thing.
Hey Phat_Penguin,
The document plagiarised was written by Dr Ibrahim al-Marashi when he was a student in 1991.It doesn’t matter what he is now / / how much he knows now or what he needs in order to be a Research Associate or the job he is doing now.
You are right it's gone off topic, some of you are trying turn this thread into America – Iraq support thread.
I fully support negative for this thread because it highlights:-
What I am worried about, the state of our secret service and information gathering. It failed during September 11 and now, plagiarism?
Common even a kid can do a better job at copying!!! Not word for word copying (including mistakes).
American and British people deserve a better service than that!!!
taken from:Quote:
But it emerged that some of the document was copied from three different articles, including one written by a postgraduate student.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/2735031.stm
taken from:-Quote:
But it has emerged much of the document was lifted from a paper by Ibrahim al-Marashi, from Monterey, California - who was researching material relating to the build-up to the 1991 Gulf War and not to the current situation.
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/030207/4/dsp4v.html
We trust on our secret service and information gathering :-
- On how to protect our Country
- When we make political decisions
- When we send our soldiers to war
:confused:
Dr_Evil
Dr Evil
Sorry but you may be wrong, I believe it was written in 2002 - but you are correct, data seized in 1991 was used in its findings, an article titled "British Government Plagiarizes MERIA Journal: Our Response" gives a fuller explanation.
<snippet>
</snippet>Quote:
As some of you may have heard, a major scandal which has received global media coverage erupted over the British government’s plagiarism of a MERIA Journal article.
In brief, the story is as follows. Ibrahim al-Marashi wrote a fine article in our September 2002 issue entitled, “Iraq’s Security and Intelligence Network: A Guide and Analysis,” which looked at that country’s secret police and other such forces in detail. He used captured Iraqi documents from the 1991 Kuwait war but updated it to cover later developments, power shifts, and personnel changes among these agencies.
... and further ...
The fact is that the articles by Mr. Marashi and our other authors are highly accurate, insightful, original, and extremely timely.
Link to the article here.
This Journal is published from an Israeli domain (.il) .... so does the plot thicken ??? - food for thought, eh !!! ..... think this brings this back right on track with Negative's original post.
I am not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone over the rights/wrongs of using of the article, just the author being quoted as a student, he was a post-grad student when he first studied the documents, I believe - but apparently fully qualified when he wrote the article.
I appreciate your links but having dealt with journalists I tend not to trust things written by them on face value, they sometimes tend to use a little "journalistic licence" to somewhat sensationalise the story - for obvious reasons - it sells papers and air time.
Absolutely .... but never trust a journalist to let the truth get in the way of a good story :)Quote:
We trust on our secret service and information gathering :-
- On how to protect our Country
- When we make political decisions
- When we send our soldiers to war
Regards,
PP.
You're right, it doesn't say that. I have my info from a Belgian newspaper where he was being called a student. I saw the part where it says that he is a research associate/lecturer, but that didn't ring a bell (I still don't even get the difference between high school/college and what not ;) ). I checked the info on numerous other website (BBC, CNN,...)... they all mentioned 'a student' (I just now saw that CNN titles "The British government has been accused of basing its latest Iraq dossier on old material, including an article by an American post-graduate student. ", while further on in their article they talk about a research associate).Quote:
A student ? Where did it say he was a student ?
The article indeed was written in September 2002, based on facts from 1991 (as acknowledged by our dear 'student', but not mentioned in the British report).
Here's what a spokeswoman for No. 10 Downing Street said about the plagiarism:
You're right about journalists hardly ever letting the truth get in the way of a good story, but the facts still stand: Dr. Ibrahim al-Marashi has been plagiarized. Can't blame him for journalists reporting about him not getting their facts straight ;)Quote:
Section Two dealt with historical background on Iraq, and some of it was based on material written by Dr Ibrahim al-Marashi. In retrospect we should have acknowledged any references to material we used that had been written by Dr Ibrahim. We have learnt an important lesson.
Ok here is another fake information used by the states:
taken from: http://www.2600.com/news/view/article/1526
AMERICAN JOURNALIST POSES AS TERRORIST GROUP, FOOLS U.S. GOV
Posted 9 Feb 2003 19:55:55 UTC
An American journalist named Brian McWilliams fooled his fellow journalists on Wednesday, by posing on the Internet as the terrorist group Harkat-ul-Mujahideen (HUM). He also fooled the U.S. Government.
McWilliams registered the domain HarkatUlMujahideen.org in early 2002, as part of a plan for investigating radical Islam. The domain pointed to a counterfeit HUM web site created by the journalist. The site successfully attracted terrorists to the reporter, who says he intended to compile and report on his findings. The real HUM has been on the United States' list of foreign terrorist organizations since 1997.
Then, last weekend, nearly a year after the birth of his web site, McWilliams took his illusion one step further. He took on the identity of a fictitious HUM terrorist called "Abu Mujahid." He claimed that HUM was responsible for the recent Microsoft SQL "Slammer" worm, and that it was part of a new wave of "cyber jihad."
A reporter and former U.S. military intelligence analyst named Dan Verton was quick to contact "Mujahid" about his claims. Despite the fact that Mujahid's emails came from the United States, and that McWilliams had written openly about the domain before, Verton decided that he had found a credible source. Credible enough that on Wednesday he published a story in Computerworld called "Terrorist group claims responsibility for Slammer worm." (The article has since been removed from Computerworld.)
The National Infrastructure Protection Center (NIPC), the United States' supposed first line of defense against cyber-attack, also analyzed McWilliams' terrorist ruse. Like Verton, they too concluded that the phony HUM was real.
Verton told the Associated Press that he had fallen victim to "an elaborate scheme to dupe security companies and journalists."
McWilliams has now apologized to his colleagues, but his point is clear. "As my bungled experiment proved, even Verton... can apparently be fooled by fake e-mails, phony web sites, and wild claims, in a desire to get a big scoop on a hot topic," McWilliams wrote.
In the biggest scoop of all, the United States' Homeland Security Advisory System was upgraded on Friday to Threat Level Orange.
Er..... Could we all agree that fooling any government in most things technical is not exactly reason to throw a huge piss-up...... I mean, they have proved time and time again that technology is far from something they should be dabbling in..... They should stick to piling up those nice colored blocks and knocking them down again..... You know, keep them gainfully employed and off our backs.......Quote: