Are txt msgs impeding language growing?...

Guys,

I found this issue interesting to discuss. The question to make ourselves is if txt / chat / and abbreviations that are starting to be used since some few years ago are impeding the natural progression of languaje (english above all). This "problem" applies more to kids that are getting themselves used to write always abbreviated instead of the real word or phrase for example instead of:

By the way, are you happy?

they / we write:

BTW, r u :D ?

The "problem" is ever worst when kids take this form of writting to "normal" life and not when using a computer, i mean when they write a letter to their grandpas or grannies this they use this way of abbreviations in this letter too and so they complicate other persons that read it and aren't familiarized with this "new language".

Well, it could be a long issue to discuss and could be all a matter of opinions, but what are your opinions about it?

Here you have an article of another example about this issue in cellphone messages.

Thanks,

DKRR

I agree, i think it is.
Leave alone other people, it's happened to me.
While writing texts, i have sometimes written ASAP etcetra.
With my colleagues at my institution, it is a problem also.

Wonder what's gonna happen to the next generation with that.


-inv

I saw something on the news where it is actually bleeding over into homework now.

l00k, i don't know anyone who writes/speaks like that. and if i did- they'd be stupid... it's just like using slang in front of someone who is not your peer (they wouldn't understand it)... i don't exactly see comp. slang being used by the common person anytime soon! just my opinion ;)

-take it easy!

I partially agree. I think the lesson to be taught is when it is inapporporiate to use the abbrevated language (letter to grandparents, colleague application. etc). This phenmumom is part of the mankinds laziness (or American laziness -can't judge the rest of the world). I see things like Burger King becoming BK, the Warner Brothers Network becoming the WB. We are in too much of a hurry to say/type the whole expression. I think part of what you have noted is that rush and the youth of the world finding there own workarounds.

I think the "youth" will be ok as long as they can switch between the 2 forms of English as needed.

Cheers,
-D

I think that spell and grammar checks don't promote growth-though they have their place-the only way to learn to write well is to put pen to paper and THEN move on to other formats

I dunno wt ur talkin bout ;)

My thoughts on this are, that it is the way language grows..
Language changes in time, that's the whole organic language, now that our time is becomming more mechanic, so will our language become less organic.
Else you would propably still be talking in "Shakespeare English" ??

This is dear mercy, and thou see'st it not.

lol, jinx has a f****** point.

Sorry about clogging up the thread but i love making parallels to 1984!
i also believe in Old/Tradition... don't want too much to get lost in popular grammer!

Quote:

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Newspeak and Doublethink
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Newspeak is the official language of Oceania, and had been devised to meet the ideological needs of Ingsoc, or English Socialism. In the year 1984, there was nobody, who has really used Newspeak in speech nor in writing. Only the leading articles were written in this "language". But it was generally assumed that in the year 2050 Newspeak would superset Oldspeak, or common English. The purpose of Newspeak was not only to provide medium of expression for the world-view and mental habits proper to devotees of Ingsoc, but to make all other methods of thought impossible. Another reason for developing Newspeak was, to make old books, or books which were written before the era of the Party, unreadable. With Newspeak, Doublethink would be even easier. Its vocabulary was so constructed as to give exact and often very subtle expression to every meaning that a Party member could properly wish to express, while excluding all other meanings and also the possibility of arriving at them by indirect methods. This was done partly by the invention of new words, but chiefly by eliminating undesirable words by stripping such words as remained of unorthodox meanings whatever. Generally Newspeak words were divided into three groups: the A, B(also called compound words) and the C Vocabulary.
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Doublethink is a kind of manipulation of the mind. Generally one could say that Doublethink makes people accept contradictions, and it makes them also believe, that, the party is the only institution that distinguishes between right and wrong. This manipulation is mainly done by the Minitrue (Ministry of Truth), where also Winston Smith works. When a person that is well grounded in Doublethink recognises a contradiction or a lie of the Party, then the person thinks that he is remembering a false fact. The use of the word Doublethink involves doublethink. With the help of the Minitrue it is not only possible to change the written facts, but also the facts that are remembered by the people. So complete control of the country and its citizens is provided. The fact of faking the history had already been used by the Nazis, who told the people that already German Knights believed in the principles of National Socialism.

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taken from http://mural.uv.es/mabela/news+double.htm

As much as we all may or may not be using abbrv for talking. I dont think that it will completely take over. When you go to write a paper in a school (elementary, middle, high, university) the teacher is going to deduct point for noncomplete words. I caught my self almost putting ppl instead of people on a thesis for a class. So as long as the teachers continue to keep it proper I think we will be ok

I remember when "ain't" wasn't a word.

semantics go through an evolution of their own, which incorporates the method used to incorporate ideas. most of the time, those boundaries are pretty well defined. someone who doesn't spend all their time on the internet (i know... what?!!) is not going to speak like that in real life. i caught myself saying "lol" in real life the other day to something funny and that almost disturbed me.

take ebonics as an example; most definately a subculture language that evolved over a perod of time and is pretty much confinced to a certain scope of people.

Quote:

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i caught myself saying "lol" in real life the other day to something funny and that almost disturbed me.

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Well, I never really said "lol" IRL, but have been caught using other phrases such as "pr0n," "lamer," "l33t," and a few others that left me red faced. It just means I spend too much time on here. That may be true in the question that was raised.

Will people be speaking IRC or board lingo in everyday language? I do not see that happening anytime soon. IMHO, when people start talking or writing like that IRL, it means they need to disconnect for a while and take a break.

Maybe I should take my own advice.

i tend to disagree, i think that communications technologies that are around today are allowing more people to communicate MORE, so it is speeding up the evolution of the language, it just happens that it looks like it should not be going where it is, and at that speed too! i blame the cheap-ass that said 160 characters is enough.

I believe that the new txt msg feature from cell phone companies is also motivating the slang way of writing. If you've ever tried to type a msg into a cell phone to someone it is truly time consuming if you don't abbreviate and condense a bunch. Finally, when typing to someone on a messaging service, i.e. AIM, MSN, etc... It is exremely cumbersome to type "Thats funny" or some other crap when you can put something as simple as "lol" to illustrate the same fealings.

If it was just for things like cell phones (where character counts are an issue) then it wouldn't be that bad. However, I see students (these are people about to go into the real world) who think it is appropriate to submit a research essay, professional document with text messaging slang. This is at the college level, by the way.

It has become a habit. Is it a good one or does it mean the evolution of language? Well, that's debatable. I think, however, when you want to be clear about something using slang or poor english doesn't help. What I've noticed is that not only are people going to "IM slang" but they are dropping words and the meaning of the sentence is being lost. That causes a communication break-down.

In addition, while the adage "you can't judge a book by it's cover" we often do. "Leet", "IM slang", "IRC slang", etc. are all, in my humble opinion, inappropriate for the business world and the business world -- where the big bucks are -- seems to agree with this thought. So while it may be good for IM, cell phones, even here, you might want to re-think it when proposing something that could turn into lots of $$$$.

;)

MY thoughts also Spyrus.

I've found almost writing my father email. Like that knowing he would be calling asking what do this me
or say. ppl are habital animals. what can we say who knows what the future holds

This might be a little bit OT, but maybe its time we rethink our means of communication ;)

Seriously, and as lame and far-fetched as this may sound, looking at text communication today makes you think that there has to be a better way. Of course, this would not be some giant change that some government would anounce, its more of a thing that as someone has already mentioned, is part of the natural evolution of our language. (Think kind of like "Mediatrons" for those of you who have read some Neal Stephenson stuff).

Of course, before our primary means of "nonpersonal" (for a lack of a better word, ie text in the present) communication vastly changes, you would think the evolution of technology will make text communication almost obsolete in most circumstances though. But think about it. We still need a way to store information, and even with terabytes of bandwidth, cheap storage, etc, video would obviously not be too convienent (or maybe thats just because thats very different that the situation today?).

Be interesting to see what happens, if anything at all.