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we in irc have been told that you hate irc...
my question to you is why? :( its a great tool real time help etc etc
checking some of your old posts you posted a link to a news article about the ddos attacks that took place on the dalnet network is this a contributing factor etc?
thanks
rioter
fellas you could so just hub out your irc networks to prevent ddos...
irc = text
text = no graphics
no grapics = no advertising
no advertising = no revenue stream
no revenue = not an option for an SEC company...
what they fail to realize is that there is still a better ROI then they realize... maybe not direct, but IRC can be (ok, sometimes we are a little mean) but it can be a great resource for the members...
more/better resources = happy members...
happy members = happy advertisers
happy advertisers = better money
It's also pretty cheap to do. Very little overhead. etc. etc. etc.
I'm not even a fan of IRC, hardly ever use it and I can see the worth of it.
You guys, it's not worth wasting a thread on, they aren't listening. We'll all have to use another source.
We are listening but soleman had the equation pretty accurate in the first part. I wish the second part was true.
I'm sure you guys have all followed the dot com bubble and burst cycle. It is not that easy to be an online publisher these days. You have to be very careful about how you spend your pennies, especially in this economy.
IRC may not be enormously expensive but it is a cost. All of these costs add up and pretty soon, you have happy members, no advertisers and big losses.
I wouldn't say that the dalnet attacks was the reason we decided not to support chat but it is an example of the type of real world problems you face when you're a publisher who is trying to deliver a 24x7 service and why you need to have such a large IT department.
Heh, not that I enjoy the idea, (don't know if it's been done before either) but how about a advertisment bot?! ;)
(Even better (or worst depending on your pov), it could trigger specific ads based on keywords it sees! )
Ammo
Actually, one way to go about it would be to modify or create a new java chat applet. You could easily implement your own that would have ad banners going down the side, or a header with ad links that scroll by. The 'regulars' wouldn't be bothered since most use normal irc clients anyways....and anyone coming in for advice, help, or just to check it out could get the ad content.
Just an idea.....
Adding to my other idea....in the past we have tried to do things such as online 'classes' for members on our own. With a bit more support (maybe running an ad banner or some other form of advertising or anything else we could come up with) some members could possibly be talked into doing it again. This could add more value to both having a chat as well as the site in general. If combined with the java chat ad idea....this could push more users, more ads, etc.
Yeah I have nothing against IRC. I mean I don't hang out on the channel much, but I have irc.antionline.com is the only IRC channel I have loaded incase there is something I would want to jump in and ask about. Real time is always cool, and sometimes not everyone is on something like AIM (because they can't or because of choice).
You could imagine all kinds of great software to display ads on chat -- but that doesn't mean an advertiser wants to pay for it. It is hard enough to keep a website running at a profit these days, which is why a lot of great sites have shut down in the last couple of years.
We will continue to point to the chat servers where users want to meet, so antionline.com can still be a place for chat sessions to start.
Hey jupman wat up with the gold spot you got. I think you should earn it and not just get it just because you own this web site doesn't mean you can have it. JP had it because he got here for long time and the work he did for this AO community is priceless and unique.
I would say get a regular green dot.
7/\nG0_Down:
I think we had our fun with the guy and he's had his account fixed by JP himself I believe so let's play nice and see what happens. Jupman has a ton of responsibilities to his bosses and to his shareholders - he will fail in those responsibilities if he loses the current membership. Ergo - he has to play nice too.
JmpMan.. excellent point. Advertisers are not paying what they used to. And if you are still pointing to a chat server, it will be nice. (Nothing like abusing a few newbies) And although there are not a lot of regulars in there, there are people that can help out (as long as your not asking how to hack hotmail or something).
7 Down..... The gold dot means he is the owner of the site... JP got it becasuse he invented it, not because he has been here a long time. I would complaing about him giving himself the top 2 antipoint spots on the top10 list more then that... And besides, we already showed what happens when he starts with one green dot. Oh yeah, and one other thing... JP gave him the gold dot, he didn't give it to himself.
Hrm, actually I screwed my idea up. It is just an applet on a web page after all and any banner or 'sponsored by' code would be a trivial change to a web page. Although it would probably be cheaper to do online events, and easier to get to for most members, it's your ball...
but I'm extremly sceptic concerning AO's future. While investgating what the real businness of the new owner is, among other things, I found this:
Please let me just try to explain my doubts. For me it looks like the collision of matter and *anti*matter: A big flash and nothing will be left. Neither for the COMPANY nor for the COMMUNITY.Quote:
Jupiter Research
Jupiter Research is a leading international research advisory organization specializing in business and technology market research in 18 business areas and 9 vertical markets. Jupiter Research helps companies develop, extend and integrate business strategies across online and emerging channels. Backed by proprietary data, Jupiter Research's industry-specific analysis, competitive insight and strategic advice give businesses the tools they need to exploit new technologies and business processes. Jupiter Research offers services designed to fit your needs. Jupiter Research's custom research services help clients address challenges as they arise, delivering insight to succeed in this dynamic economy. For more information visit http://www.jupiterresearch.com.
I know, I am a Newbie. I joined two weeks ago. But it may be an advantage not to be addicted to much to AO. At first I hesitated to join this community. HACKERS! Dangerous! Will this be the right place to unclose myself? Will they accept me? As a sysadmin I want to defend my systems against them! So first for a while I have been a guest and just reading day by day. Then I decided to join. I didn't regret for it. On the contrary. Meanwhile I began to feel very comfortable. Reading further and posting my first posts I discovered the human beings behind their partly eerie avatars. Besides computer related themes they are discussing quite mundane themes. They share my opinions or have arguments just in the opposite direction. They share knowledge and opinions on a global base. Someone said that AO is Open Source. I agree! That's true Open Source! A very, very fruitful soil to settle and call it MY communitiy.
And then this. This SPIRIT and this KNOWLEGDE sold to a commercial company targeted to data mining, marketing and merchandising. I can't believe it :-(
I'll be watching this community and I hope indeed, that I'm wrong. I'd like to meet you again and call you my friends.
cu
Uhu
Well Uhu if they are providing help to exploit services with there 'tools' well i say go right ahead why you may ask....Simple because if they are exploiting new services they are showing a potential weakness in the daemon and they will notify the developer ASAP (obviously) and a patch will be provided (hopefully) and this in turn will make all our systems more secure (hopefully):rolleyes: so to me this is a good thing if ads are on the site now whocares we will be getting back notice of potential 0dayz and to me that sounds more than fare.I personally could live with ads no problem if it means getting a 'jump start' on potentail hackers crackers whatever you want to call them and getting a first hand look at exploit code would be more than welcome because they are many good coders here and they could look at the exploit and the service in a whole diffrent level and descover another exploit thus in turn making the service running more secure so jupitermedia.com if this is you're intentions go right ahead and make the site 100% security related im sure im not the only person who fells this way w00t for 100% security :D (BTW im drunk =\) seriously 100% security would be great no more politics no more general chat sorta sort the men from the boys (or girls and women)Quote:
Jupiter Research
Jupiter Research is a leading international research advisory organization specializing in business and technology market research in 18 business areas and 9 vertical markets. Jupiter Research helps companies develop, extend and integrate business strategies across online and emerging channels. Backed by proprietary data, Jupiter Research's industry-specific analysis, competitive insight and strategic advice give businesses the tools they need to exploit new technologies and business processes. Jupiter Research offers services designed to fit your needs. Jupiter Research's custom research services help clients address challenges as they arise, delivering insight to succeed in this dynamic economy. For more information visit http://www.jupiterresearch.com.
If i am way off and just ranting because i am drunk feel free to correct me :p
And we are not? Why?Quote:
I would complaing about him giving himself the top 2 antipoint spots on the top10 list more then that... And besides, we already showed what happens when he starts with one green dot. Oh yeah, and one other thing... JP gave him the gold dot, he didn't give it to himself.
But what can we do right now? The company is sold, JP himself did it and I think he would have sold it to someone who would look out for us. I think everyone just has cold feet and are playing on fears. Personally I think we should all just take a deep breath and get the idea in our head that JP is not the big boss, JupMan is. Let's see what happens, and if JP is right, than AO is going to grow from this point forward after all the ripples of changing companies.
I raised it in another thread but someone explained that they can do what they want. my point was, if they are premium members and immune to antipoints, how can you rank? if you are above and beyond them then you are out of the system.Quote:
I would complaing about him giving himself the top 2 antipoint spots on the top10 list more then that... And besides, we already showed what happens when he starts with one green dot. Oh yeah, and one other thing... JP gave him the gold dot, he didn't give it to himself.
And we are not? Why?
i'm guessing its just so people see the names, and it will be rectified post haste, when everyone is settled in nicely.
(V)/\><, what do you have against them? I mean you really seem to have a nerve worked over because the new owner of AO has Premium status. To me that seems logical, I mean if they got kicked off because people who were pissed with how they ran the site would neg them... I donno. Look at all the hassel JP had with that one person, I think his name was Alex? (I'd search for the thread, but it's midnight and I'm tired). Just trying to figure out your side man, that's why I ask.
no acid, i have nothng against them. and it would not be for the status thing. if it was, i would have said somethig to the effect of "i am pissed off because you gave yourself high status". but i said, why are you ranking yourself if you put yourself outside the system. this to me, seems illogical. and i still don't have an answer, other than the one i gave myself in the post above.
acid, i sugest reloading your sarcasm module and rereading my first post on this topic :D
don't worry yourselves, i will not lose any sleep over it.
I have a suggestion.. I doubt it will do any good, but it's a suggestion none-the-less.
For those of you that want AO IRC to stay up (I myself wouldn't mind it for the few times i got there, but am pretty much neutral) why doesn't someone offer to purchase the right to use irc.antionline.com from Jupiter Media and have it pointed at their... or requestion that Jupiter Media point it at your server for free, it never hurts to ask.. And then you can maintain the AO IRC server.. After all I'm sure someone here has the resources to run an IRCd.. instead of complaining about losing it, try to reach a compromise..
Hmmmmm...I don't recall anyone bitching about JP having a 'gold dot' when his first appeared. It was accepted since JP founded AO and it was HIS site. Now the site belongs to Jupiter Media, and so does the gold dot...precisely for the same reason JP has one...it was his baby. Now it's their perogative where the gold dots go because now it's THEIR baby.
Face it folks....the times they are a changing and we have no control over that. All we can do is to continue to try to support the community and take things one day at a time...remember, change is the one true contstant in the universe and we owe it to ourselves to give it a chance. Personally I'm going to reserve my judgement till I see what our new owner brings into the wonderful world of AO, and I would hope that most of you would have the courtesy to do the same.
Hey at least they are going to keep the site running *close* to how it was. Give them props for that. i guess..
@prodikalQuote:
Originally posted here by prodikal
Well Uhu if they are providing help to exploit services with there 'tools' well i say go right ahead why you may ask....Simple because if they are exploiting new services they are showing a potential weakness in the daemon and they will notify the developer ASAP (obviously) and a patch will be provided (hopefully) and this in turn will make all our systems more secure (hopefully)
I think the meaning of "to exploit" in this case is not to check systems for weaknesses and to develop patches. In their context "to exploit" means something like harvesting or exploiting resources.
Just my 0,02€
Uhu
my resons for this post was to find out their reasoning for not wanting irc not bitching like some people thinks ;)
[their was a rant in here but negative squashed my fears]
well either which way ill be sticking around i belive we owe it to jp to at least keep the site he put so much time and effort into keep running into the future
just my random drunken babbelings
rioter
I just read over the posts and I think at this point we have a few options...
1. wait it out and see what happens (most realistic)
2. take HTRegz's suggestion and someone put up their own IRC server and redirect irc.antionline.com to that server (either pay for it or have JupMan do it for free)
3. we set up a good 'ol BBS (this is my prefered lol). I love the old things. For anyone who doesn't know what they are, they were around in the 80s and early 90s. They are message board/chat/game center that people used to dial into, now people use telnet.
Realisticaly though? I'd say that we have to go down route 1.
I guess the issue is resolved.
JP has promised a new IRC server at irc.securitalk.com , of what i know.
So why still posting about that guys ?
(V)/\><, sorry I miss took what you said. Sometimes when you read things, and don't hear the tone, you can "read into" things deeper!
I would have written more in my last post only my keyboard was f***ed up. now I have a different keyboard and will elaborate....
<rant>What i am refering here to those who could not read into my short post is that JupMan and his partner, ( I cannot remember the name ) have placed themselves at the top of the top 10 antipoint earners. This is NOT right as it took a lot of us a lot of time and contibuting to this site to attain this status. And status is what it is, personally, I don't care who owns this site, we run it! And if they want my respect they will have to earn it! </rant>Quote:
I would complaing about him giving himself the top 2 antipoint spots on the top10 list more then that... And besides, we already showed what happens when he starts with one green dot. Oh yeah, and one other thing... JP gave him the gold dot, he didn't give it to himself.
And we are not? Why?