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16 year olds can't buy beer or cigarettes either. Guess us americans and our freedoms are just full of ****. /sarcasm
16 years old doesn't know anything better. He is just an teenager and sent back to home because other people got worried about him since the majority of students are arab, you know, they are known for terrorism.
Who knows what could be gone wrong there. I don't see anything bad if he asked to remove the T-Shirt or go home.
He wear that T-Shirt because it is a land of free and choose to go home because he was smart because he don't want to get in trouble, students do lot of stupid things all over the world specially teenagers.
There are good, solid reasons why underage kids can't buy alcohol and cigarettes. Whereas the reasons here are more subjective. Of course it is going to look suspect when a kid at a school is told to go home because he is wearing a t-shirt expressing views which oppose those of his government. The shirt isn't patently offensive, or vulgar, or racist, and it almost seems that the school is overreacting.Quote:
16 year olds can't buy beer or cigarettes either. Guess us americans and our freedoms are just full of ****.
I thought it would have been far more inflammatory to the Arab-American community of the school if he had worn a shirt promoting Bush and his policies, rather than vice-versa. I wonder if he would have been ordered to take a pro-Bush t-shirt off?
However, there are probably more appropriate ways to express your opposition to the policies of your government than wearing a t-shirt that brands him an 'international terrorist' (not that he isn't ;))
Hey, of course. Couldn't agree more. I'm glad you pointed this important fact out :)Quote:
since the majority of students are arab, you know, they are known for terrorism.
yes i'm an arab.
an because of that i will blow up all your houses.....
that's utter crap pplz
dam stupid public
Why don't they just require all the students to wear a suit and tie?
That way they would not have to discriminate between which T-
shirt is offensive.
T-shirts are not appropriate school attire. :D
:cool:
Hello,
Dearborn Michigan is a center of over 300,000 Arab Americans and 50%/17000 of the public school population is Arab American. Since 9/11 tensions have been high in all regions of the US. This region in particular has special concerns about this type of expression. It is not hard to see why the school administration would take such a hard line in this way. One can easily see that a by-product of such expression could be riots, violence and the like.
I do not in any capacity support censorship of expression. The school board in Dearborn which is publicly elected, I am sure will take up this issue. I do ask that someone who is so ready to question the freedoms of the US take a more then cursory look at this reported t- shirt issue. The question of how to balance public safety with freedom of expression is a tough issue that many societies have had to deal with. To say that the US is the only country to have dealt with this issue in this way is ignorant. To question freedom in the US based on this one issue is a classic sweeping generalization. Instead of finger pointing, please tell us how to properly handle this situation. This is MHO. Thanks.
Captfb
Kids aren't allowed to wear cigarette or alcohol ads either, but I don't see how that infringes on their right of self-expression, you can go home change into whatever clothes your parents are willing to ignore and suffer the consequences then. Especially nowadays theschools #1 priority is to secure the safety of the children who attend, they also know that school is no place for inciting anger and improper politcial debates. The shirt had one purpose, to piss people off. Liek isaid you can always go home and change into it, but school is for learning ont starting riots.
Being that they haven't reached the age of majority their parents are responsible for whatever trouble they may get into, so if anything did happen the consequences should fall squarely on the shoulders of the kid's parents. IMHO
This has little to do with the land of the free. Children don't have many of the same rights that adults do, for good reason. I fail to see your point here, C0nf1rm3d.
Sorr to disagree, 16 yrs old kids are not cows to be told what to do/think/eat till they turn 18 and then be on their own...
Their are entitled to their opinions and the way they choose to express it as long as it isn't y illegal means. There ahs been other examples where teens where not listened to and we all know the results.
Also, i wonder about the future amalgam of arabs and terrorists, it becomes almost interchangeables in some people's opinions. please get your terminology straight.
Where did I say 16 year old kids are cows? I was once 16, not too long ago at that. I quite remember having not too popular opinions. I wsent against the grain. That's not at issue here, nabylbt. What is at issue is the fact the school has a responsibilty to protect all of the students at that school. They would not allow someone to walk in with a t-shirt with Jesus on itand the words "Homegrown terrorist" on it.
I liken this to screaming "fire" in a crowded theatre. Or spraying pepper spray into a crowded nightclub.
Terrorist and arab are not interchangeable words. And my terminology is not mixed up.
Like I said when you are on YOUR time go ahead and incite as much anger and angst as you want. But when you are at school you are there to get an education, not to try and piss off as many people as possible.
And threatening by using Columbine or whatever as an example is pointless. As a parent, myself, the responsibilty for that falls directly on the kid's parents, IMHO. Those parents should've known what thier kid's were involved in, they "fell down" on their job.
"But he was such a quiet boy, he'd never hurt anybody...." that's all too played out for my taste.
only in Michigan, i sure do love it here!!!!!! woo, iv been sent home to, when i was in high school i had on a Marilyn Manson shirt, nothing bad either, just had his face and said Marilyn Manson, it was the smells like children cover, and the principle said well your going home to change that iv told you about that shirt before (wich he had not) and i was pissed, i had to go home, change my shirt, change my pants cause i had cut offs on (somehow those are bad...) and then i got detention for the shirt, i wish i wouldv kept the slip, it said right on the slip detention, REASON: marilyn manson shirt.....so i came back with my cowboys from hell pantera shirt...somehow that one was fine, he said marilyn manson was a freak and he didnt want him in school, i got to miss like 3 hours of school waiting outside for my ride home to change, then when i got back my jock friend was pissed, he wore a manson shirt the next day and they didnt say ****, we walked past my Principle 7 times, he didnt say i word, i was like yea ****in dick and walked away. i hate that ****.
First of all nabylbt, kids go to school to learn, not be ass wipes. Second assuming that he goes to a public school, that gives the entire 18+ year old working community in Michigan the right to tell this little "cow" what he can and cannot do. It's their money he's wasting. I don't suppose you read the part about his essay, did you?
i went to school to be an ass wipe, if youv ever been to a high school in Michigan thats all you can be, and since im 20 and i work hes using my Money to and i say he can do whatever the hell he wants because im totally against censorship.
looks to me like your extremly posotive. also complaining tends to get it worse, may wanna delete that one man.
It is good to see that after all these years that kids still have some rebellious tendencies... or did they never go away? Lord help us if we "ignited passions". The next thing you know we will be encouraging free thought! Was the shirt really causing the problem or were adults blowing it out of proportion?
If school officials were truly concerned about what groups of students felt, then they should conduct polls to show various sensitivities. I did not see from the article how Arab-Americans thought, nor did the shirt show any Arabic tendencies. Are the school officials saying with this action that terrorist activities are isolated to people of Arabic nationalities? Or are they just trying to maintain control?
Also - was the kid trying to be a pain in the a$$ or to make a point?
Let's just go to gray uniforms and any thought not assigned to you by the establishment is illegal. Ok - now that was cynical.
:D
The basic tenets our country was founded upon is freedom of speech. He wasn't asked to change the shirt because it was inflammatory but because it went against the staus quo. The new status quo is told to us by our goverment and he was lucky he wasn't hauled off to a military prison and interrogated for promoting terrorism against the U.S. Remember Kent State??? The Chicago Democratic convention?? It has become dangerous to speak against american foreign policy, again. Bush has learned from the mistakes of others-read the patriot act and tell me that is what our forefathers foresaw
the issue here is'nt wether the school is protecting the students or not, i already know they are'nt. If anything, they are harming the child. Alot of teenagers are hidden from these issues, many dont even come close to knowing what is really going on. I'm 15, and unlike most teenagers, i know my rights. As americans, it is not only our right, but our duty to revolt if we feel our president is unfit for office. That student was expressing his opinon on the horrible state of our nation. The school system is breeding realitively uneducated students. How will tomorrow's rulers and teachers and corperations heads know how to deal with things if the children now are hidden from everything, just like was. I think the american school system needs to invest a bit of their money on reality and
not some perfect society that will never work out.
Look, jxrry59. our fore fathers had no idea of what the world would turn into. Those incidents that you are referring to are individual cases of tragedy not some gov't conspiracy to kill all those who defy them. The National Gaurdsmen who fired into a crowd of kids at Kent State were the perpetrators of a crime.
If the gov't wanted to put down any type of civil resentment then they would've killed all those that showed up to the anti-war rallies that recently took place. Not to mention that the vast majority of "peace rallies" end up turning into riots and looting or are you conveniently forgetting all those Berkeley riots?
This is not some new policy, my friend, 15 years ago they had the same attitude towards "incorrectly dressing" and trust me it wasn't anywhere close to this kid's shirt. I was only wearing the Metallica t-shirt "Ride the lightning" , you know the one with an electric chair? I went home changed, when school was over I went home and put it back on.
And by the way, if this censorship is that big of a deal then don't you think that he would've been failed for his compare and contrast essay or worse he might have been dragged off to some concentration camp? BTW, I'd like to read that essay. I'd like to see how he compares and contrasts the two.
edit -
P.S. Jxrry59, our fore-fathers didn't let blacks vote, they also thought they were somehow beneath the whites, so really, how smart were are fore-fathers?
You know what really gets me, who bought the kid the shirt or let him have it? I understand parents not wanting to invade their childs life like that, but a child needs to be sat down and have the whole "problem" explained to them before something like this happens. Yeah the kid probably should have known not to wear it, but then again in todays world kids do things ot get noticed... that's probably all this was. Not saying it's the parents fault, but don't make this kid out to look like he's working for the other side! He's a kid, just like the 11 year old changing grades, the goverment and law and communitiesmakes have to sit down and pull their heads out of their ass and think a little. Things are starting to get WAY to out of hand anymore. We are all sorry and feel bad for Colimbine, but we can't go around being like this or people will start feeling like jobs and work and leaving your house (or even being in your house) is like a jail cell.
Personal thought...
Are you actualy blaming the current president for the state of our schools? That's like blaming Ronald McDonald when you get a bad cheeseburger. Blaming the current president for ALL of the countries woes is plain ludicrous.Quote:
Originally posted here by bootieofdarknes
the issue here is'nt wether the school is protecting the students or not, i already know they are'nt. If anything, they are harming the child. Alot of teenagers are hidden from these issues, many dont even come close to knowing what is really going on. I'm 15, and unlike most teenagers, i know my rights. As americans, it is not only our right, but our duty to revolt if we feel our president is unfit for office. That student was expressing his opinon on the horrible state of our nation. The school system is breeding realitively uneducated students. How will tomorrow's rulers and teachers and corperations heads know how to deal with things if the children now are hidden from everything, just like was. I think the american school system needs to invest a bit of their money on reality and
not some perfect society that will never work out.
I admit President Bush is no saint,(yeah, an understatement) I don't agree with his death penalty zeal, or his sudden need to drilll for oil in Wildlife reserves, etc. etc. the list goes on and on.
This has nothing to do with the job the president is doing and more to do with the responsibility or lack thereof by this kid's parents. I doubt the school would allow someone, anyone, to wear a "F*** Iraq" t-shirt either. So it does go both ways.
It's really easy to shift blame, responsibility, and everything else to someone else. Seems to me that THAT is what is so horrible about America. It's become second nature to shift blame because you don't feel like dealing with it.
If this country is SO horrible then why don't you get elected and change it from the inside, instead of pointlessly bitching about it online?
LOL
Korp. breath a little
blame is easy to give but no one wants ot bears the responsabilities of it. I jsut don't see how an entity can "protect" by not letting them express themselves. ie how do you know if F**iraq will be taken away or if F** france will be tolerated.... it seems to me as double standarts.
that is extremely familiar: doube standarts, one set for the friendlies and another set for the other ones.
here is the points who sets the standards ?
I thought GWB said the point of killing all those Iraqis ,Afghanis and muslims was so you could have the freedom wear shirts that say anything you please ,or is my concept of free speech and freedom of thought wrong?, .Dissenting views are the most IMPORTANT part of democracy .Without them it doesnt exist ,does it ? I think its a good thing that kids question the norm ,at least the kid isn't sucking up what the lapdog media is saying and he is thinking for himself ( a very important skill ,lacking in many people now a days ). When people stop thinking for themselves this world will become an even more scary and f@@ked up place than it already is .(kids have had the same thing happen for wearing a pepsi shirt in a "coke sponsered' school )
I'd wear that kind-a-shirt and stand for it.. And if they want me to remove the shirt I'll take it off and write the same text with a big ****ing black magic marker on my belly ;)
Freedom of speach in the US don't make me lough.. the CIA, NSA and other "secret police" are just as bad as Sadam's secret police the mukhabarat..
Thought controll for evryone :D
Sadam Hussein is a threat only to his own people (the Iraqi people)
George W. Bush is a threat to the world !!
Just MHO
ehm bugsthecat, coke sponsored schools ?? !! seems like the place I went ;)
freedom is not just some abstract concept that can be used as a blanket to rationalize unacceptable behavior. freedom is exactly what the law says it is. you are not free to do things that are illegal. people say they have the right to do this and that. your rights (for nations with Constitutions) as laid out by the Constitution are basic human rights. all other so-called "rights" are merely freedoms as defined by the law.
so how does this pertain to the rebellious kid trying to make a statement with his t-shirt? the law says that public schools are allowed to enforce rules that they feel are necessary in order to maintain discipline and a learning environment. whether or not those rules impinge on Bretton Barber's civil liberties is the legal matter, and since the ACLU is on his side who knows what will happen. if more schools would just enforce school uniforms this would be a moot point.
my advice to Bretton is to stop making an ass of himself and go to school instead of inciting controversy. in a survey by the National Geographic Society, of 18- to 24-year-olds polled (in the US), 87 percent could not locate Iraq on a map. Bretton is 16. i doubt he has the intellectual background to debate intelligently on whether Bush is an international terrorist. the only thing Bretton has accomplished is to waste his school's money fighting the ACLU instead of using it more productively to buy books and teach his dumb ass some respect.
From my explination of the story it just seems like some prankster teenager was trying to be the funny guy. In my opinion from the story i really just think he was trying to be funny but it didn't turn out that way.
You're damn right land of the free. If this country is so terrible just remember that you have the right to leave at ANY point in time. What is and isn't appropriate to wear varries by school but I don't think that shirt would be tolerated at any school. BTW, you can take ur opinion and shove it jinx. God bless America. :fu:
About 15-20 years ago I seen a white long sleeved sweater in a local fleamarket with Hitlers European Tour emblazened across the front of it. It had a pic of Adolph himself with a list of the countries he defeated. It was printed up just like those t-shirts we used to buy way back when with our favourite bands on them. It had the dates when he invaded each country as if it was listing concert dates. If memory serves me correct, I believe it said "Russia - Cancelled".
I had to settle for a Blue Oyster Cult shirt :( But eventually I did get my Iron Maiden - Number of The Beast shirt :) The teachers didn't care much for that one either!
Only in America... :)
Full story here: http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Northeast...eut/index.htmlQuote:
A lawyer was arrested late Monday and charged with trespassing at a public mall in the state of New York after refusing to take off a T-shirt advocating peace that he had just purchased at the mall.
Oh yeah for sure that does sound like America. The only place where you can sell weed pipes as a store business in any college downtown area and get away with it, but they wonder why drug use is so high? =)
I think that the kid wearing that shirt in a dense population of arabs was very smart in the first place. Does this idiot want to get beat up or what???
If your not intending that as sarcastic you are very ill informed , most countries could care less about pipes and in many weed is legal or not a crime, there is no correlation between pipes and drug use .try looking at some other sources of info rather than the propoganda the us goverment puts out . if you have a problem with drugs look at booze/cigarretes being pushed on your children by commercials they kill people pot doesn't.Every single legit study ever done on pot says the same thing ,it is not a big problem or worry (major studys have been done by these countries/states look them up new york,canada ,costa rica ,india,jamaica.....) While ascroft is busting entrepeneurs and glassblowers your out buying duct tape to save your selves from from chem/bio ,ya right thats gonna work. try thinking for your self .I am assuming you are a university student so you must be a bright person !!!! :) as to the lawyer :( (while playing taps on a trumpet ) bye bye freedom of speech ,bye bye constitution maybe one day you will be back .hail to the religious right and domination of all ,heil ashcroft,heil bush .liberty for all and to all a good night .Quote:
Originally posted here by AciDriveHB
Oh yeah for sure that does sound like America. The only place where you can sell weed pipes as a store business in any college downtown area and get away with it, but they wonder why drug use is so high? =)