For a F***ING spoon?!

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Federal law defines drug paraphernalia as those products primarily intended or designed to be used in ingesting, inhaling or otherwise using controlled substances, and include devices such as miniature scales, substances for "cutting" raw narcotics, water and marijuana pipes, roach clips, miniature spoons and cocaine freebase kits.

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"Today's actions send a clear and unambiguous message to those who would poison our children: We will bring you to justice, and we will act decisively to protect our young people from the harms of illegal drugs," Mr. Walters said.
Federal law provides for a maximum sentence of three years in prison, a fine of $250,000, or both, for each count charged.

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http://www.washtimes.com/national/20030225-5341290.htm

Notice the common expression "Today's actions send a ... message ...". This is a functional
equivalent of "We must make an example of them."
The first time I heard that expression was in an old movie where the NAZIs put a
bunch of innocent people up against a wall and machine gunned them.
:cool:

not surprising, this country reminds me more of nazi germany every day. Democracy shares the same flaw with all other political systems, it is overly utopian, depends too much on the goodness of others assumes the highest of qualities of human beings. the more freedom we have, the more potential we have to abuse it. it then becomes necessary for the government to restrict our freedom for our own protection. what is dangerous in the hands of the wrong person? pretty much everything, yes? pretty soon it becomes necessary for the government to control every aspect of your everyday life. if things continue like this, i'm moving to europe.

Keep the people in fear and you can do anything you want! This has been this administrations tacticts. How long before I buy a plug and play harddrive so I can hide it when I am not around in case "they" view this as an unamerican critisism(my spelling is atrocious).
The louder they cry out how freedom is being preserved, the more ridiculous the acts they will commit in the name of our freedom.
Our rights as citizens are quickly slipping away and it's our own fault-we allow it
The other thing is the feds always try and get a conviction in the press when they have a weak case.

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Originally posted here by jxrry59
Keep the people in fear and you can do anything you want!

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The basis of religon...... :)

religion is closer to 'keep people ignorant and in fear and you can do anything you want'
this is another reason I will move to europe if thing's don't change, we are living in the only country in the world in which JERRY FALWELL is not only NOT a criminal, but he has a percentage of the people in agreement with him. jerry falwell is, in my opinion, possible proof of time travel. I think he is LITERALLY from 5 centuries ago, I'm not kidding. check this out:
http://www.funnystrange.com/quiz/

Heh....it's getting really bad in my area. Admittedly, my part of KY is one of the worst places in the US as far as drug abuse is concerned, but things are getting bad when the clerks at WalMart call the cops if someone buys a gallon of paint thinner!!

Yes, that actually happened here just last week. Turns out the clerk helped the cops nab a man who was running a crystal meth lab. But what about those of us who might NEED paint thinner to actually thin paint? Heaven forbid you go to the store and buy a package of Sudafed (another crystal meth. ingredient)....you might get the SWAT team called on you!

/me watches his freedoms slowly riding off into the sunset.....

I used to work at walmart, they have a chart of things that can be used to make bombs, with instructions to contact the police if anyone buys more than two objects on the chart, such as nitrogen fertilizer, propane tanks, deisel gas, amonia, bleach, etc. so legally, we were required to call the cops on every poor sap who happens to be having a barbeque next weekend and buys these items. speaking of walmart, Did you hear they started an ISP? anyone know anything about it?

It seems to me the more you restrict things the more people want them , jeez ,you guys(americans ) keep B.C.(Canada)from going bankrupt with your lust for fine herbs and i cant even believe the prices youll pay .A lb here is around 2000(can$) when i hear people pay 400+ (us$)an ounce it makes me quiver ,plus the penalty in some states if you get caught ,holy smokes obviously prohibition doesnt work . ohh well i guess you all will have to make popcan pipes and smuggling rolling papers from canada HEIL Ashcroft (that funny strange site(is great) it shows some fundamental similarities doesnt it.)

DUDE! WEED IS LEGAL IN CANADA????? %$@! EUROPE!!!

When you base an argument off of "what if's" it becomes completely non existant. The fellow that was running a meth lab should of been caught and thats what happens. If you bought items for your barbecue you get questioned and they leave you alone. They don't bust in like you see on T.V. Trust me I know that one. Bought too many vix inhalers one night heh. Don't think I don't sympathise I used to be a heavy coke user but I quit and reformed in retrospect I think of all those times I was trying to get high I could of been doing other things.. like learning to program or all the things I'm trying to do now heh.

(re pot) It is still "illegal" (for a little while anyway)but in B.C. you would have a hard time getting busted ,you would have to really piss the cops off(or be a career criminal) , sentences for possession are minor usually in all other provinces , cultivation in BC is commonplace ,if you know more than a couple people in bc you know someone who grows . I set up a legal grow their a few months a go , my buddy has a permit and even a nifty id card that allows him to posses and cultivate (you need a doctors note for pain,sickness to get a permit)

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The fellow that was running a meth lab should of been caught and thats what happens.

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How true....he did deserve to be caught without a doubt. But picture this scenario:

I have a VERY extensive background in the construction industry, particularly involving residential and commercial remodel jobs. Although my primary focus today is the construction of customized computer systems, I do upon occasion still accept remodel jobs from a select few of my previous clients. They all are aware of my abilities as a master carpenter (1983 thru 1998...15 years) My rates in that area are a bit higher than the norm but my old clients are willing to pay the difference because they know the value of my work... plus the fact that I offer up to a ten year warranty depending on the original conditions of the structure.

Now picture this scenario. I have to do a job that entails quite a bit of refinishing work. Some paint thinner for the inside finish, a gallon or two of acetone to rmove the glue from a vinyl floor that i have to remove and replace. If the house has been unoccupied for some time, I have to take a generator onsite to have power...but that doesn't solve my heat problem so I bring in a kerosene heater. If I need a heater, then it is evident I am working in cold weather. If I purchase Sudafed because the cold weather has made me sick, that pretty well sinks me in the view of law enforcement. If they find that combination of materials in my possesion, I WILL be arrested and charged with the manufacture of methamphetimine. In the current local environment I WILL be indicted by a Grand Jury. EVEN if I were found innocent on all charges, my side business (which is legit) has suffered harm from which there is no recovery. My name will have been published in the local newspaper under the court docket, the charges listed in full. If I am exonerated because the District Attorney can validate a legitimate need for me to possess these items due to the nature of my LEGAL business, there will still exist a certain amount of damage done to my reputation because of the initial indictment. A suspicion of guilt is always newsworthy (especially in a small town like my own), but when the truth of someones innocence DOES come out, it is rarely reported by the press. So hypothetically, there would sit an innocent man who has been damned by the press for making innocent purchases involving items that are needed in a legitimate occupation. That sucks....PERIOD.

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When you base an argument off of "what if's" it becomes completely non existant

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BULLSHIT..."what if" is one of the ways that the legal community establishes a reasonable level of doubt. If an attorney looks at the jury and says "What if I can prove that this gentleman needs these materials to perform a legal service to a client?" does the use of the phrase "what if " render his defense useless?

Sorry if you disagree, but this type of activity makes me wonder if the court system now functions on a basis of "guilty until proven innocent".

[edit] My friends from back in the day tell me that pot here goes from $1,000 to $1200 per lb in this neck of the woods, and would most likely blow anything you got north of the border out of the water (it would back in my day for sure). Put that in your pipe and smoke it. ;)

"What if" arguments are based on speculation alone, speculative arguments are opinions therefore not backed by fact or function. When you speak of the lawyers using "What if's" you enter a whole new area solely on "motive." Which has absolutely nothing to do with what is taking place here. What if you did partake in your scenario? Would there be residue from the manufacture of meth? No. Would there be the atrocious smell of a meth lab? No. Would you be arrested? Not if you supplied the proper permits and explained to the officers what you were doing. It is completely legal to possess these materials otherwise they wouldn't be for sell however it is illegal to possess them without the proper permits, or without the proper excuses (i.e. I work in construction and have a cold) By the way it takes a helluva lot more stuff then that to cook meth. You might be questioned but for the most part an officer wouldn't even look your way.

NOt to change the subject too much..

An person walks down a street shooting people at random... strike one against Guns
another person walks into a govenment office shooting at ppl (xwife etc) .. strike 2 against guns
A criminaly Insane person steals a gun, goes to a nearby a tourist attraction, shoots ppl at random .. Guns Banned in our country...

Guy goes into a shopping center with a hand gun and a knife.. stabs severl ppl.. never fires the pistol.. headlines "Gun weilding madman kills 3"..


I am anti-drugs.. but I think some times the ill informed media, and the less informed polititions .. manage to screw the truth and the lives of too many inocent ppl

as you can tell I don't like the media.. and have little time for polititions..


cheers

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Originally posted here by Und3ertak3r
Guy goes into a shopping center with a hand gun and a knife.. stabs severl ppl.. never fires the pistol.. headlines "Gun weilding madman kills 3"..

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That is HILARIOUS!

I used to do drugs too, I smoked alot of weed, did some coke, acid, and was even hooked on crack for 3 months, which scared the crap outa me, so i quit drugs alltogether, haven't smoked, drank, or done any drugs in 5 years (barring the occasional cigarrette or joint, but i could count those on one hand) I'm now against drugs, they never really were a big deal to me, i guess i am not predisposed to addiction, but some people are, and gambling by doing drugs, to me, is stupid. the funny thing is, people who know me, know how clean i am and that i am against drugs, but once in a while, i'll point out something, list a few other ingredients, and describe exactly how i can make $50,000 worth of crank with it, lol. I'm kinda like apathy man, you know, i've knowledge of basically everything one would need to know about drugs, with absolutley no willingness or desire to use it. I used to grow pot in my bedroom of the apartment i shared with my mom. I could take the pot plants, (shwag) and treat them to increase the amount of THC(tetrahydrocannabinol, the active ingredient of marijuana) to make superweed (chronic) that stuff is more dangerous, more potent, more addictive, and WAY more expensive, and the thing is, i dont have a penny left of what i made because i spent it all on drugs. sucks, eh?

How is potent marijauna more addictive and dangerous? If anything its less dangerous becuase the user needs to use less to achieve the desired effects. marijauna isnt addictive in the first place, and saying that potent marijuana is more addictive is pure bullshit.

marijuana isn't chemically addictive, no. but it is psychologically addictive. and it is dangerous, because regular pot usage causes depression, which is deadly.

oh you know damn well im about to have a field day with this thread.

First, im COMPLETLY against drugs laws for opiates and pot and cocain. I DO agree that Acid and meth and things like that arent good because iv seen what they can do first hand. first i dont think Acid should be legal, its very potent and people lose perception of reality taking it. Now, play time :)

Pot is not addictive, at all, except for mental dependency, NOTHING compared to what someone hooked on crack goes through, in my opinion it should be legalized, **** it worked for booze, people drank anyway so they made it legal again, pot was legal, heroin was over the counter until 1914, iv never lost an arguement over drug laws in my entire life. If you dont like drugs thats fine, its your choice (Remember, america is supposed to be about choice....hmmm why did my friend get busted for choosing to have a roach on him then....oh yea i forgot, drug laws are a bunch of **** they still enforce)

i was at a super market here in Michigan, me and my best friend wanted whip cream for our cookies...now granted yes huffing nitrouse can be fun when your depressed and in need of a quick laugh but ****, we had cookies and pie!

Well we were going to buy 3 cans of it, we get to the counter and the lady at the counter says hold on, calls security and as shes talking says "I cant sell you this, even though your both over 18 years of age, you may try to put it up your nose and get high"

umm excuse me, when did a store start telling people what they can do with what they sell? I told EVERYONE, no one could believe they said no to us.....i wish i wouldv had a lawyers number handy, its not exactly legal to tell someone no you cant buy something like whipped cream here and i prolly couldv gotten some money but oh well.

Opiates...hmm what can i say? thats my favorite. in pain? any opiate can relieve it usually. (by opiates i mean codiene, Vicodin, Demerol, Morphine, Opium, and sadly heroin, the only one i refuse to try, and yes i have a reason, i know itll feel TOO good)

have diarriea(SP? for the shits?) Well, opiates also cure that. Have a cough that wont go away? yup you guessed it, Opiates are a very good cough suppressent and have been used in cough syrups for hundreds of years (back in the 1910s Heroin was a very widely used cough suppressent and Cocain was used as a tooth ache medicine for children)

Now why does gore get pissed about prohibition? well to put it without the average sugar coating, its MY ****ing body, not anyones but, MINE.

and its ok for someone to get drunk and beat there familly but to smoke a bowl or some opium and relax and tell everyone you love them, thats wrong???????? am i the only one seeing the stupidity here?

hmm, and for those "truth the anti drug" commercials...ohhh id love for them to walk up to me, "Did you know 1 in 3 people tested after a car accident tested posotive for pot?" hmm DID YOU KNOW THAT OUT OF ALL OF THEM MORE THAN 75% WERE ALSO ****ING DRUNK????????

is it so hard to realise when you get intoxicaed DONT DRIVE???? its not hard, DO NOT DRIVE, why do you think when you get new meds the pill bottle says not to operate a car or machines? do we really need to put this on liquor bottles to for the stupid?

i think we should take all the warning lables off everything so the stupidity problem gets rid of itself. i mean come on, do we really need a sticker on a botlle of valium, a tranqilizer saying not to drive?? i mean, hello people, "tranqulizers make you calm and want to sleep" prolly not the best time to go driving im guessing....

Im sorry to Alan for going off his thread a lil bit in my post, im trying to stay on topic but also i wanted to talk about a few things that others said.

like the one who said "all that time i was doing drugs i couldv been learning to program"

you know when i taught myself some C++ i was high as hell, thats how i concentrated, Vicodin is an opiate, Opiates, unlike pot and Acid, DONT distort reality, they intensify it, i concentrate ALOT better and i do alot better.

honestly they make me a better person, **** my finals from last semester, i hadnt slept in 2 days, i had to take my final for my operating systems class, no sleep, i took 5 Vicodins and went in, they kicked in, helped me stay awake, and concentrate on what i was doing, i Aced that final....

i took another final without Vicodin and with sleep, i got a B...in an easier class.... sad huh? not really, Vicodin doesnt make me sleepy like it does some people, i am more awake on it, but at the same time calm, it saves on the heat bill because it gives that warm fuzzy feeling of happiness, and also, it feels great....so what are some side effects to opium?? well, here they are:

Addictive...darn so is EVERYTHING inclusind caffiene (try waking up and not having coffee pop, cola, chocolate, anything with caffiene in it)
Constipation....if you have the shits this one is more of a blessing than a bad side effect.

Sence of content well being. (darn, what a bummer your gunna feel great)

Euphoria..(damn, your gunna feel GREAT, happy, and think posotivly.....)

Tummy ache if taken on an empty stomache...eating or drinking milk takes this away and most people dont even get this one.

Thats about it.....sad isnt it. THOSE are the side effects you get and yet its not legal.

and as for cocain...yea, i dont do it but it does have medical uses, like eye sergury (thats right kids, when you go in for surgery your given something derived from cocain to numb you....and when you come out your given an opiate for pain...im still waiting for even one person to beat me in an arguement about drug laws)

:) yes, i taught myself about pharmacology, i like poppin pills (mostly vicodin and Xanax) and i think Opium should be legal. i also made a paper about opiates with quotes, facts and other things, im on my Linux box right now though and its not on here but if anyone wants to see it ill gladly post it here ok?

"Drugs are horrible, never do them!!!!"

"oh wait i broke my leg, please give me drugs"

^the above is a mock to people who think drugs are completly bad.

I agree with gore, I don't like drugs, but I think they should at least legalize pot. If for no other reason to tax the hell out of it and buy a better educational system. Pot is America's cash crop, and until we legalize it, the only people with access to those funds are criminals who fight and kill and die over eachother's rights to buy and sell it... how many people have died in this drug war? now weigh that against marijuana's QUESTIONABLE influence over drivers (half of whom are dangerous behind the wheel no matter how sober they are), and marijuana's chances of causing cancer or TB or emphesema.. now consider the similar side effects of tobacco! the increased intoxication of alchohol! and these are both legal! I think we should legalize pot, and prostitution. that way you can regulate them, make sure prostitutes are of age, and not 14 y/o runaways. Then we could tax them, and the government can earn back that fat juicy surplus we had a few years back.. and what i propose we do with that money, is cut it strait down the middle... use half of it to improve the PATHETIC excuse for a public education system we have, and the other half to somehow decrease the number of marriages and children. if you ask me, the problem with the moral fiber of this country is not too many divorces, it's too many marriages. the problem isn't unwed pregnancies, it's unWANTED pregnancies. too many people are getting married, too many people are having kids, too many KIDS are having kids. do you realize if we made it more difficult to get married, encouraged people to prevent pregnancies, taught kids the TRUTH about pregnancy, how few divorces we'd have? how few abortions we'd have? how unlikely it would be to find a baby in a trash can somewhere? and all thanks to our little friends: Pot and hookers