bush VS saddam who cares!

well lets face it i am a nbormal indian and don't really uinderstand who want's
this war between america and iraq.
general feeling in atleast india is that they don't want war general feeling in most of other countries is that they wanna give iraq a chance.
then who want's war ?

is it american's ?
is it british?
or is it bush and saddam who are inviting war?

don't take me otherwise i neithert support america nor iraq.what i realy wanna know is
what do american's feel about war.because in the and as we all know american's will win that war but iraq won't be defeated saddam won't die .humanity will be defeated,humanity will
die.

my purpose of this post is to know whether america(as a country) want this war or bush
for his own reasons wants this war.

i have nothing to say mate .. the only thing that i know is WAR make us suffer and so terrible.
and i don't wanna say something ..coz i could be wrong .. the point is i am not choose US or Iraq .. i want a peace .


:)

well- most american's don't understand the war either (excuse me for assuming your opinion) we never voted on it? no one ever asked America if we wanted a war with Iraq... Most people don't really understand why our Gov't does half of things it does. Most of us think it's because Bush wants all of that Oil (cheaper, Bush recieves millions in Oil $) anyway- i don't want to start ranting and and raving, but i don't think it's fair that Americans get all the sh*t our gov't puts on us... if we would just leave those people alone(mid-east)- they wouldn't be sending suicide bombers/etc... anyway- that's just my opinion... hope i didn't offend and gung-ho pro-war peoples (an you know who you are)

-take it easy!

I for one as an American am not for going to war in Iraq. For the following reasons:

1) I have seen no evidence to support the statements our government has made concerning WMD.

2) I do not believe Iraq poses an immediate danger to the US.

3) It will be very expensive for the US taxpayer. I believe these hundreds of Billions of dollars (over several years of occupation) could be used for much better purposes domestically.

4) It will set a bad precedent that it is OK to circumvent the UN when it does not suit your needs.

I fully support our troops but I do not agree with the reasons behind going to war at this time. I would very much like to see some evidence that Saddam is a danger to America or American interests before I can agree with taking action in Iraq.

If Iraq could be proved to have attacked the United States or one of our interests then my opinion would most likely change.

Here is a link to an estimated cost of war in Iraq:
http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/10/01/iraq.cost/

thanks for quick reply to all the above specially to tampabay420 for being
honest that is exactly what the purpose of this post is i wanna know who
want's this war?nobody asked american citizen's -"do u favour war?"

they are expected to be protector's of democracy all over the world and is it
democracy in US?
if yes defination of democracy must be different then what they teach us in JR
school!

Quote:

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Originally posted here by nathanb33
I for one as an American am not for going to war in Iraq. For the following reasons:

1) I have seen no evidence to support the statements our government has made concerning WMD.

2) I do not believe Iraq poses an immediate danger to the US.

3) It will be very expensive for the US taxpayer. I believe these hundreds of Billions of dollars (over several years of occupation) could be used for much better purposes domestically.

4) It will set a bad precedent that it is OK to circumvent the UN when it does not suit your needs.

---

:thumbsup:

well i forgot one thing we all are told that bush and his family will be benifited by this war through some oil deal but no one says he is gonna benifited in next elections too.
isn't it so.
he is doing it for political reasons..
no no don't think that i am a democrate or something.

If I may add an opinion here...

I don't think many people want war. If people want war then they have never been exposed to it.

However, if you look at history, in 1936 when a small dictator in Germany was deemed as not an immediate threat to the region by most of the world.

So you have to ask yourself. Can you have a small dictator in power that is willing to use wepons of mass destruction?

I am indifferent to war. If it makes the world safer for my kids to get rid of the tyrant then so be it. However, with the money we're spending why don't we give him 20 Billion to leave? He may take it...

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However, if you look at history, in 1936 when a small dictator in Germany was deemed as not an immediate threat to the region by most of the world.

---

This is an interesting point. I think the world should have stepped in to stop Nazi Germany sooner than they did. However, I do not think that Saddam is nearly the threat that Hitler was at that time. Now if Saddam was actively seeking to take over the Middle East or preparing to launch a WMD attack on the US or Europe this would be a different story.

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So you have to ask yourself. Can you have a small dictator in power that is willing to use wepons of mass destruction?

---

Yes he has been proven willing to use WMD.
Does he have them now? -- IMO he probably does. However, I think this should be proven before we let the dogs out. The things we are going to war over happened over 10 years ago. What has changed that makes us need to attack immediately?

All I really want to see is some real evidence that Saddam is currently a threat to anyone besides his own people.

It's not a war on Iraq, it's a war on it's current leader. The reason for this is that he is considered an immediate threat to boardering countries of Iraq, and also yes the usa as well ( though not as easily). Will you all support a war if he kills a few more thousand people? How bout a million? How many people need to die by SH's hands before other counties relize he IS a BAD person? That is the reason we want HIM disarm'd, it's not about Iraq and it's people....

Quote:

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It's not a war on Iraq, it's a war on it's current leader. The reason for this is that he is considered an immediate threat to boardering countries of Iraq, and also yes the usa as well ( though not as easily). Will you all support a war if he kills a few more thousand people? How bout a million? How many people need to die by SH's hands before other counties relize he IS a BAD person? That is the reason we want HIM disarm'd, it's not about Iraq and it's people....

---

He is definately a bad man. You will get no argument from me on this point. I would like to see him disarmed as well but I would like to see this done internationally not by the US and UK alone.

IMO our world has quite a few bad men in positions of authority and always has. All I am trying to say is that I have reservations about running all around the world spending outrageous amounts of (our) money killing these bad men without concrete reasons.

If we do this in Iraq without the UN does it end there? Do we then continue the campaign to exterminate the rest of the "AXIS of Evil" on our own? What happens to Iraq when we leave? If and when I see some evidence to back up what Bush and Blair are saying this may change my opinion but for now I am concerned.

And yet the more imminent threat from North Korea is being swept under the rug.

It is my understanding (and I apologize if I am wrong) that North Korea has and will launch a nuclear weapon on the west coast if the US makes a pre-emtive strike on Iraq.

So is a few cents saving on gasoline worth millions of lives?

(Then again, it WOULD take out RIAA) but it's not even worth that.

Just my 2cents.

Did North Korea actually say that? If so, do you have a source?

That would be a pretty stupid move on North Korea's part.

Ok time for me to rant, its english class and im bored..


=========================================

BUSH Vs. Sadaam - An ongoing tragedy

=========================================

Ever since what we call the "persian gulf war" it seems that there have been problems with the Bush's and the Hussein's even though there has really only been one hussein in particular. Now these problems could be over the following:

1. Proliferation of weapons of mass destruction (Doubt it too many countries do this for this to be the real reason.)

2. Oil - this could be a very likely scenario as the bush's are stereotypically oil hungry being from Texas, and Hussein having so much.

3. Power - Bush's have shown how they love power.... thats pretty much it. These can be the only real reasons.


Think about these scenarios. The first one is what most people will believe because that is what bush blasts all over the news back and forth with his little brigade of attempted mass hysteria. Now bush wants the nation to believe that sadaam is currently proliferating or just not disarming his weapons of mass destruction, but in my opinion, its just that the president is a master deceptor and has used us as pawns from 9-11 to back his every move so he can be remembered for being the one that took out ol' hussein and bossted the economy with his oil that he secretly will receive from this mission. But who knows.


Now your argument on Britain being involved is simply this:

Tony Blair is GWB's Bitch. The UK has been our bitch for a long time now, ever since the world war's and they probably always will be. They are scared of the US for some reason, and arent economically controlling of their own government. Which contributes to them being our *bitch*

Have fun thinking about this, most conspiracy, etc. But i really dont think that sadaam has the ability to deploy these weapons, much less use them on the US. Bush just wants oil and doesnt want a dictator in control of Iraq, which is good that he wants that but i dont think thats the only real reason. PLus their are hundreds of factors im sure that we prolly dont even know about. Sadaam probably put naked pictures of Bush's Mommy barbara on the net with her face covering some porn stars body. muahahahahhaa

Have fun going over this.

I am neither for nor against this current war, in england we have many campaigns and protests against it, I don't think this will stop Blair taking us to war (if it comes to that).

Saddam seems to be a problem for Bush, after all his dad couldn't beat him, so he sees it as a challenge!

Screw war, there are so few reasons to go to war that it can hardly be justified.
I agree that saddam suck ass and that he should be removed and all teh tragic things happening in iraq should not be allowed to keep going on.

BUT
-why start with this country?
-why not some other countries?
-why the rush ?

there are little things that we can do as citizen to prevent it but it is our duty as citizen to let our represantatives to know our opinions and if they cannot represent the will of the people, well they can kiss their ass goodbye for their reelection!!! hope you got the number/email of your rep.

anyone who knows a serving military member and their family and friends should care. anyone who wants their kids to have the best future possible cares and anyone who wants the world a safer and better place will care about this possible war.
everyone should care. if anyone says they dont care about whats going on they are very nieve and selfish

noone wants war its just that there is not always another avenue to go down to avoid it.

IM SORRY IF THIS OFFENDS ANY ONE.
Always state hwat you feel and what you think, otherwise no one will ever know. personally i think who ever really makes these decisions are just big kids wanting a fight, a bit of publicity, only thay chose the wrong way about it. WAR. thay should consult us the genral public and listen to what we want, after all it is our friends, family, coworkers and us that get dragged in to it to fight "we are expected to fight for our country". why should we go and fight a war that we did not chose to involve our selves in?? why dosent our "leaders" fight for us? after all thay are the ones who are ment to be taking care of our best interests!! are thay not??

Seems like everyone here has a complaint about GWB or the evil USofA. We're over here just hell-bent on ruining everyone's lives by attacking Iraq, aren't we?

What do you think gives you the right to complain? Are your family members being sent of to war? Do you have close friends and workmates who are being called to serve in the Middle East? I'm sure that a few of us here at AO fall in that category, but most of you don't. And for those of you that don't, then I really don't care what your opinion is. You obviously don't have anything anything to lose regardless of the outcome, so just keep sitting there in your comfy office chair and whine and complain some more about things you can't control.

The only opinions I really do care about are those of the men and women who are putting their lives on the line. And how do you think they feel about the war in Iraq? Every one of them I've talked to are behind their commander in chief 110%. The only ones I've heard of that were actually against the war were the weekend warriors who never thought they'd actually have to fight. As for the rest of them - sure they want to be with their families, sure they'd rather be at home than halfway across the world waiting in the desert. But they're there serving their country and doing what they think is right, and that's enough for me.

finally someone who believes the same as i do. all i hear is anti-war, anti-american crap from most of you people here. i am not against the war. so does that make me pro-war. i dont want war. i dont like war. but sometimes we have to do things we dont like to make sure our families and our country are safe. yes i love my country. yes i have pride in my country. but to most of you people having pride in the USA is considered arrogant. so i guess i am one arrogant SOB!
about the UN. it has done nothing for me, yet my tax dollars help pay for it. all it does is make resolution it does not stand by. the way i see it let the US and willing countries do what the UN doesnt have the balls to do. what is the UN going to do pass a resolution on the US. like they will enforce it. saddam has had 17 chances to disarm. 17 chances to end this war. people keep saying what gives the US the right to disarm iraq. let me tell you. the treaty that saddam signed at the end of the gulf war that said he would disarm if the US would stop bombing. so the way i see it the gulf war never ended. this is just a continuation.......


just my 2 cents

My opinion on this war is this. Saddam has broken the United Nations treaty 12 times. this means that in the treaty if he broke it we would revert back to the original state....if you remember what that was, it was war. Honestly I don't like war, but liars only prove they are after something. We may not know the entire truth. We will never know until after the war. I as an American trust my government to protect me. Otherwise I'd live somewhere else. I'll remain patriotic, but I will not just go to a country to look like I'm a bigger power. We are not over in Iraq for political reasons as many people may believe. We are not over there for oil. we are trying to disarm a dictator, who kills people, rapes people, etc. I believe in life, and I'd fight on the front line to take out evil. People may disagree, but I perfer evil be destroyed even if I had to sacrifice my life. I believe people here in the US have lost sight of freedom, and they do not see the truth about what a free country is all about. Now not all people have forgotten, but liberals like Bill Clinton are only out for political gain. Life is not about how far you can get, in the public's eye. We need to show the world that we mean business that we like our freedom, and we will not tolerate dictators such as Saddam, who will break every treaty to benifit his own goals. We have given him 12 years to become peacful by agreeing to the UN treaty, he refused so he deserves what he will get. I may sound brutal, but I love my country, my freedom, and I will remain conservative. I do not take my freedom for granted as I wish others in this country would. When people in this country show how they hate this country by burning the flag, I say, live with Saddam and see what a true hell is like, and see if you would take the freedom for granted anymore. I'm sorry is this is offensive. As Daryl Worley's new song states "Have you forgotten".

Personally I don't think we know enough or maybe ever will to judge the war, if our leaders tell us its what has to be done, it has to be done, for the future of our children. If you go to the C.I.A. or N.S.A. websites, they do not tell you all the secret information they have gathered through out time, if we know, then the enermy knows, maybe they dont want the enermy to know how they know what they know, by doing so they could be giving away the locations of spys and such. Everybody loves peace, the kurdish people love peace, they dont get peace due to saddam, why do we deserve peace and they dont, there will never be true peace until we all experience it at the same time. It may be impossible, but just because we are at peace at the moment doent mean we all are, dont be selfish, fight for world peace not your own. Dont let the media currupt your minds, support your country and its allies.

Nobody here can argue that Saddam is a saint. I think the question that needs to be answered is do we deal with him now, or do we wait 20 years and pass this problem onto our children. I'm for removing Saddam from power, but wish we would get the backing of the UN first. How many chances are we going to give this guy? Saddam keeps FSCKing up and we let him off the hook every time. Saddam used chemical weapons on his own people and we sat back and did nothing. When saddam was in charge of the secret police, he did public executions of Jewish citizens, and we sat back and did nothing. He thinks that rape and acid are exceptable forms of punishment.

Where were all these anti-war people when the US was in Hatti, Somalia and Kosovo? Or how about when Clinton bombed Iraq during his administration?

Well i am an american and i see where your coming from. THere are a lot of Anti-war clubs things here. None of us wants war neither does bush i dont think. But if we dont act fast Saddiam could lob a missle over here and were not sure if he is capable of it. And i dont like the fact of war because if you think about it what if a nuclear missle comes over here or anywhere else that would do a lot of damage and you also better hope to die in the explosion because that radiation isnt good stuff. But i see where your coming from.

Neotrope1 makes a good point. I have to say I am not a pro war person, but I am in agreement that Iraq lost the gulf war, if we wanted their oil why didn't we just take it then, we were in Iraq?

It's not oil, and it's not GWB and his dad thing.

Iraq is making a mockery on the U.N. and it's last several articles passed on him. I for one am glad someone has enough balls to confront him.

Personally I think it's odd that the only remaining super power has to ask permission from the likes of Mexico, Angola, France and the like to take out an evil regime.

I also notice no one in the UN wants to touch North Korea.

I am behind our troops 100%.

My cousin is in the army and is going to Iraq next week. I hate this war. I also hate President Bush for sending my cousin to a war. I know that we should get rid of Saddam, but is now really the right time? Our economy has gone to hell, we can't afford this war Shouldn't we be focusing on the terrorists who killed all those people on 9/11? Sorry this is just my opinion...

It's clear that if there will be a war Saddam will lost (USofA is the First army in the world). But for the moment there is no war and if we take 5 minutes we can see that Bush help desarming (directly or not I don't know). He put a pressure on Saddam with all the soldiers around. If the UN says no to the war and Bush do the war then Bush will be as Saddam, a dictator (he decide alone). Bush says he want to put democracy but that's not foreign people to say what is good or what is not good, it must be the choice of the iraq nation. Everybody speak about mass destruction weapons but iraq is under control since 1991, if Saddam can make weapon and hide them and USofA, France, Germany, UK, ... see nothing then Saddam is better than David Copperfield.
If Bush wants a free world why he start with Saddam. I think Palestine-Israel war is much important.

Quote:

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Seems like everyone here has a complaint about GWB or the evil USofA. We're over here just hell-bent on ruining everyone's lives by attacking Iraq, aren't we?

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I don't think the USA is evil. I love my country.

Quote:

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What do you think gives you the right to complain? Are your family members being sent of to war? Do you have close friends and workmates who are being called to serve in the Middle East? I'm sure that a few of us here at AO fall in that category, but most of you don't. And for those of you that don't, then I really don't care what your opinion is. You obviously don't have anything anything to lose regardless of the outcome, so just keep sitting there in your comfy office chair and whine and complain some more about things you can't control.

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As an american citizen living in a Democracy I think I have a right to voice my concerns about this war. As I said in one of my previous posts I support our troops and our country. I simply have reservations about rushing into a unilateral confict in Iraq without international support. This could set a bad precendent that may be used in future conflicts. I do not want to see America dashing around to all the far corners of the word stomping out evil. Why?

1) Due to different cultures and values what we as Americans see as evil may not always be so in another country.

2) Who says (a lot of people probably will say this but can they prove it) Democracy is for everyone? Will Democracy work if it is imposed on a populace who does not want it or is not ready for it? America fought for its Democracy. It was paid for by the blood of our people.

3) This will be a huge financial burden on the US (which means all Americans).

All I am saying is that we should not be attacking a foreign power without at least one of 2 things:

1) A credible threat to our nation or one of our interests.

2) A consensus of world opinion that we along with others do so.

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The only opinions I really do care about are those of the men and women who are putting their lives on the line. And how do you think they feel about the war in Iraq? Every one of them I've talked to are behind their commander in chief 110%. The only ones I've heard of that were actually against the war were the weekend warriors who never thought they'd actually have to fight. As for the rest of them - sure they want to be with their families, sure they'd rather be at home than halfway across the world waiting in the desert. But they're there serving their country and doing what they think is right, and that's enough for me.

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Yes, they are serving their country. This is a noble and patriotic thing for them to do. It is the right thing to do. I do, however, have questions as to whether it is the right thing for America as a nation to be doing.

I, as an american back my country and my President 100%.
I have no problems with this war.
Let us get Saddam out of Iraq.
There are a lot of antiwar protestors out there saying bush is evil, bush wants oil, its all political, ect Theres already so many people that dislike the president that I think it wil hurt him in the coming elections, So I don't think it would be political.

Like one guy was saying in this thread a long time ago there was a person in Germany who we deemed not dangerouse enought to take out. Then look what happened.

I also believe France should at least back us a little bit. After all if it wasn't for us France would be Germany right now. Hell, almost all of Europe would be Germany.

I saw this quote once somewhere and can't remeber where but it really had some meaning to it. America is our home, our team. If you don't believe in your team or home then you should not be here at all.

I believe that it is ever Americans duty to support his/her country.

I also am grateful to the men who will fight this war for their country.
It seems like many people forget what it was like watching the twin towers fall to the ground, all because somebody like Saddam despises our freedoms.

I believe what the other peopel said to that Saddam is mocking the U.N. Everbody wants to pass another resolution, give him another chance. but every time we do he ignores it. It's time to take action.

I, as an american back my country and my President 100%.
I have no problems with this war.
Let us get Saddam out of Iraq.
There are a lot of antiwar protestors out there saying bush is evil, bush wants oil, its all political, ect Theres already so many people that dislike the president that I think it wil hurt him in the coming elections, So I don't think it would be political.

Like one guy was saying in this thread a long time ago there was a person in Germany who we deemed not dangerouse enought to take out. Then look what happened.

I also believe France should at least back us a little bit. After all if it wasn't for us France would be Germany right now. Hell, almost all of Europe would be Germany.

I saw this quote once somewhere and can't remeber where but it really had some meaning to it. America is our home, our team. If you don't believe in your team or home then you should not be here at all.

I believe that it is ever Americans duty to support his/her country.

I also am grateful to the men who will fight this war for their country.
It seems like many people forget what it was like watching the twin towers fall to the ground, all because somebody like Saddam despises our freedoms.

I believe what the other peopel said to that Saddam is mocking the U.N. Everbody wants to pass another resolution, give him another chance. but every time we do he ignores it. It's time to take action.

Quote:

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Originally posted here by nathanb33


This is an interesting point. I think the world should have stepped in to stop Nazi Germany sooner than they did. However, I do not think that Saddam is nearly the threat that Hitler was at that time. Now if Saddam was actively seeking to take over the Middle East or preparing to launch a WMD attack on the US or Europe this would be a different story.



All I really want to see is some real evidence that Saddam is currently a threat to anyone besides his own people.

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ummm 10 years ago he tried, after he fought iran to a standstill, he used chemical weapons on them adn they agreed to a cease fire. then he invaded kuwait, THEN america got involved adn knocked him down, and said u can stand back up once u get rid of ure NBC's we will go, he has not, so for teh past 12 years he has had an american army on his doorstep, thast why he hasnt invaded anyone recently.

Why can we not just go and send a whole lot of darn snipers and assacens over there to kill sadam and osama??

I see that every one hear has a point and that thay are all equilly important.

What I do not like is that hear in Australia we have said NO to this war a thousand times over, we do not wont to go and fight for a nuther country, for a war tht is not ours.
we have got other issues to worry about other than wht America is or is not going through. We have a country just above us that would not mind taking the opotunity to attack our country, if this war happones and it will we have about 2000 + trops over seas, who the hell is going to protect us??? America?,Britten? who???
why should we go to war when the UN dont back it? if thay are not prepared to back it than Y should we???

Once again I am sorry if this does so offend any one.

Just some of my views,

Our own leaders dont tell us what is really going on thay only tell us what thay want us to know, what makes them look good.

Ther4 do we really evan count?
or
are we just the toys of 4/5 men who have never grown up?