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alternative flavours
From reading through the posts on AO, it would appear that C, C++, Java are the choice of programming software for most users.
I'd be interested to hear however, peoples comments on programmes such as Python and SmallTalk, are they of any use in security programming.
I'm thinking of teaching myself a programming language and from what I've read Python and SmallTalk are relatively simple to learn in comparison to C, C++, etc. Would I be wasting my time and should I go straight for C etc.
I should mention, I what to do this as a hobby rather than for career advancement.
Cheers
humpy :)
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i would presonaly go straight to C++, however it can be somewhat diffucult to learn but it was one of my first languages i learned and i didnt have to many difficulties
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I'm one of the people you mentioned who is a big proponent of C/C+ and Java for web apps, but i do have some experience with Python and IMO its a great language for scripting and has good integration with C programs, but it isnt that widely used and you probably get more mileage out of learning other languages. As for smalltalk its somewhat outdated and hard to program in due to its "everything is an object" design and has virtually no industry uses.
If you really want to learn something besides C/C++, Perl is an excellent choice. Not only can it be used for scripting it also can be used to write full fledged apps. Its great for database programming and if your an open-source advocate there is no limit to what can be done with the "LAMP" grouping of technologies: Linux, Apache, MySQL, Perl and PHP.
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humpy, it really depends on what you want to do after you learn that language.
You are not looking it for you career, and hence not serious programming.
Python is a relatively good language, and since you are in no hurry, you ca begin with Python, get a feel of programming, and then move on to C++ if you like.
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i would say learn c++ if you want to learn a flexible, powerful language. i guess if you're more interested in it as a hobby though, then go for perl. it's very powerful and relatively easy to learn, plus there's tuts everywhere on the web. i wouldn't bother with smalltalk, it's really old and really wasn't designed to be powerful or flexible....if i remember right it was designed to program microwave ovens and dinky things like that :)
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im no big programmer but from what ive seen and heard, the smaller languages you mentioned are going into extinction. i learned the basics of C++ in a matter of days and it was in no way hard. as for java, its taking over the internet with php and cgi.
but then again, it all really matters what youre going to be programming.
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Quote:
Originally posted here by AviS187
I'm one of the people you mentioned who is a big proponent of C/C+ and Java for web apps, but i do have some experience with Python and IMO its a great language for scripting and has good integration with C programs, but it isnt that widely used and you probably get more mileage out of learning other languages. As for smalltalk its somewhat outdated and hard to program in due to its "everything is an object" design and has virtually no industry uses.
If you really want to learn something besides C/C++, Perl is an excellent choice. Not only can it be used for scripting it also can be used to write full fledged apps. Its great for database programming and if your an open-source advocate there is no limit to what can be done with the "LAMP" grouping of technologies: Linux, Apache, MySQL, Perl and PHP.
Uhm..."everything is an object" C++/Java's core foundation is that it is centered on oop. As are many other 3rd gen languages commonly used. Any why do you say that is harder to program in? Reusable code is a bad thing? Interesting assertion you've made.
C++ is a highly complex language, mostly due to it's redundancy. But if you want a challenge you've got one. And the rewards will be many.
If you want a programming langage that you can jump into headfirst is Visual Basic 6. An excellent language for win32 programming. No matter what the a-holes that I am sure will reply to this may say. Most ppl who make ignorant comments like "Visual Basic sucks" simply have no clue.
Good luck.
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I think perl still counts as a often used programming language. The web get's important so php asp and java, wich just are about the best atm rule that region. With c++ and assembler, you can make anything and because c++ is so popular it get's better (better compilers etc.). Because the same popularity it's mostly used for open source things, because most people who know a language know c++, or c.
More on other levels of programming, languages like pascal, delphi, fortran, lisp are still used. More for special purposes or research mostly.
Visual Basic is still on the list to, it's pretty easy to learn, altough everything is hard to master to the expert level. Quick Basic is great for the kids ;), it's to get into programming and syntax and all that... like Python.
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how about some cobol
or ADA95 (wich IMHO sucks ass)
perhaps I'll go do some ASM the name sounds so cool.... assembly :D
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how about some cobol
or ADA95 (wich IMHO sucks ass)
perhaps I'll go do some ASM the name sounds so cool.... assembly :D
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The reason I said that Smalltalk's "everything is an object" design makes it a little harder to use is that even variables of basic datatypes are considered objects and instanciating a new object every time for simple integer variables and having to use methodcalls to maniplulate them is cumbersom.
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The reason I said that Smalltalk's "everything is an object" design makes it a little harder to use is that even variables of basic datatypes are considered objects and instanciating a new object every time for simple integer variables and having to use methodcalls to maniplulate them is cumbersom.
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Thanks for the replies, there's a lot of information there to consider.
If anything, the C++ route would appear to be the best choice even though it has the "difficult-to-lean" tag.
Time to buy some books - methinks.
Cheers
Humpy
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Thanks for the replies, there's a lot of information there to consider.
If anything, the C++ route would appear to be the best choice even though it has the "difficult-to-lean" tag.
Time to buy some books - methinks.
Cheers
Humpy
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Python/Perl
Guess I'll add my .02 c . . .I started w/ C++ and had some problems with it, it is definatey a powerful language, in that you can do anything you want with it. . .
I've never learned Python, I should I've got everything I need with the FreeBSD distro, but I love Perl and wish I would have started with it instead, CompSci 101 was C++ though. I think if I started with Perl or Python, it would have been easier to grasp the concepts in C++, they're all pretty similar. . . for, while, if loops, etc.. just the variables that are different w/ a few exceptions, switch cases, ect. . .with Perl it's not as strict, unless you want it to be, and I would assume the same with Python.
Who knows though, I started with C++ and maybe if I had started w/ Perl instead I would have had the same problem as I did, but I doubt it. :)
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Python/Perl
Guess I'll add my .02 c . . .I started w/ C++ and had some problems with it, it is definatey a powerful language, in that you can do anything you want with it. . .
I've never learned Python, I should I've got everything I need with the FreeBSD distro, but I love Perl and wish I would have started with it instead, CompSci 101 was C++ though. I think if I started with Perl or Python, it would have been easier to grasp the concepts in C++, they're all pretty similar. . . for, while, if loops, etc.. just the variables that are different w/ a few exceptions, switch cases, ect. . .with Perl it's not as strict, unless you want it to be, and I would assume the same with Python.
Who knows though, I started with C++ and maybe if I had started w/ Perl instead I would have had the same problem as I did, but I doubt it. :)
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I once asked the same question and most of the ressponces are the same. I'm working on learning on C++. And so i would say just to strait to C/C++.
Good luck!
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I once asked the same question and most of the ressponces are the same. I'm working on learning on C++. And so i would say just to strait to C/C++.
Good luck!
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all
to call yourself a programmer you must know C++ and Java, do not be scared at the beginning everyone has to go trough this, but surely these two languages are worth the the effort.
anyway if it ´wasn´t an interpreted language PERL would be the best of all, i hope its developers keep on working like they´ve done, it´s excellent for internet begginers but inexperienced programmers tend to make serious SECURITY mistakes, you should be careful about that..
good luck
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all
to call yourself a programmer you must know C++ and Java, do not be scared at the beginning everyone has to go trough this, but surely these two languages are worth the the effort.
anyway if it ´wasn´t an interpreted language PERL would be the best of all, i hope its developers keep on working like they´ve done, it´s excellent for internet begginers but inexperienced programmers tend to make serious SECURITY mistakes, you should be careful about that..
good luck
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If your taking your hobby serious, and are considering making a few bucks for what you like to do, there's no better way to light up your piece of the internet than with L.A.M.P. Linux, Apache, Mysql and PHP! These tools are all open source and powerful. With that combination, you can create very powerful web applications, don't believe me, take a look at the very url your reading this page from. The site AntiOnline is running Apache, PHP, Linux and posibly Mysql, but most likely. I hope this gives you an idea about what you can do and how powerful open source tools are.
Walk towards the light!
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If your taking your hobby serious, and are considering making a few bucks for what you like to do, there's no better way to light up your piece of the internet than with L.A.M.P. Linux, Apache, Mysql and PHP! These tools are all open source and powerful. With that combination, you can create very powerful web applications, don't believe me, take a look at the very url your reading this page from. The site AntiOnline is running Apache, PHP, Linux and posibly Mysql, but most likely. I hope this gives you an idea about what you can do and how powerful open source tools are.
Walk towards the light!
