Thoughts guys? I for one, do not think I can keep driving my car if I have to pay $60 to fill it up. Just getting to expensive, seemed like getting a minivan was such a good idea before...
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Thoughts guys? I for one, do not think I can keep driving my car if I have to pay $60 to fill it up. Just getting to expensive, seemed like getting a minivan was such a good idea before...
Well, Personally, when I know that people....fathers, husbands, daughters, sons, mothers, and wives are putting their lives on the line -- I can hardly complain about the price of gas.
That's just my opinion.
Thoughts? The only thought I have is it is so sad that these people have to die because of something so stupid. I wish it had never come down to war in the first place.
And does it seriously cost you 60 bucks to fill up the van? Jeezz..
Nah, it usually costs me about $75, but I started shopping at this supermarket/gas station combo, so I get a discount.
And, I don't really know anybody putting their lives on the line, and I'm not sure what this war is about, since there has been no proof presented.
blah it costs me 22$ to fill up
gas prices should be the last thing on everyone's mind. people are in harms way and thats all you can think about?
shame shame on u
My thoughts are about all the innocent civilians that will be killed in the line of this war. And the countless others that will be left homeless and without food. The sheer terror of not knowing whether you will be next because you happen to live near the fighting. Will they be able to escape? They don't really know until they try, but they have to try because what else can they do?
It is a horrible side effect to war, making the original reasons that the war occured seem hard to reason with. Regardless of what brings on the war, war is hell and many many innocents will suffer. I didn't even think for a minute what effects this war will bring on myself and my family, because I will be safe from the fighting and don't have to worry about being blown out of my home because of it.
Just my 2 cents.
Quote:
Originally posted here by mathgirl32
Well, Personally, when I know that people....fathers, husbands, daughters, sons, mothers, and wives are putting their lives on the line -- I can hardly complain about the price of gas.
That's just my opinion.
I can't say anything more. Innocent women, children and elderly are dying right now as we talk about gas prices. Can anything be more important than that? No matter your opinion of this war, don't you have compassion for the innocent who are being killed right now? It's unspeakably sad to me.
Deb
Ah....Zaggy, I see you must agree with the sentiments conveyed in the famous yet simple quote by Civil War General William T. Sherman..."War is hell."Quote:
Regardless of what brings on the war, war is hell
Hey guys, I hate to tell you but...nobody's going to die in this war unless the Marines crash another chopper.
And, when it's all over, my taxes will rebuild their country better than it ever was. I'm sure they'll have a Wal Mart in time for Xmas.
This war is all about money. Has nothing to do with anything else.
By the way, since my business is bidding government contracts and most of yours is not, you probably didn't see the 82 billion dollar contract the American Gov just awarded to rebuild the last place we bombed........let's see, it was Afghanistan last time.
If you want to see the official contract check out the Commerce Business Daily.
And in about 6 months look for the one to rebuild Iraq.
It's all about the almighty dollar.
Don't hate me for telling the truth. :)
....and that makes it less important??Quote:
nobody's going to die in this war unless the Marines crash another chopper.
Desert Storm I, was about liberating Kuwait after Hussein ordered his troops into a small neighboring country.
Desert Storm II "The Sandbox Revisited", is about Hussein continuing to develop and possess weapons of mass destruction. Which he has used against his own women and children.
Right now Iraq produces 2.5 million barrels of oil per day with antiquated technology. It is projected that with updated technology they can produce more than 10x that and will be able to rival the Saudis in production and give them some competition, thereby dropping oil (and subsequently gas) prices.
The bleeding hearts out there will whine and cry that there has not been enough proof, that they do not understand why people must die. Well, there has been proof. Inspectors found missiles that had been fitted to deliver chemical and/or biological payloads. And people must die now to save more lives in the future.
Leaving Hussein in power will ensure that Iraq will not be a prosperous nation and that it's people will continue to suffer under a dictator who has an unbelievably horrific record of abuse towards his own people.
The US military is highly trained. They have highly evolved weapons systems. Loss of civilian life will be kept as minimal as possible. Hussein's regime will inflate the casualty and fatality numbers to attempt to sway world opinion; we know it'll happen. But I can tell you from my own experiences, the loss of innocent lives will be highly avoided.
Geez people, who said I don't feel sorry for those starving and dying? I do, I was just relating something that, I am pretty sure, affects us all, gas prices, I was trying to start up a conversation. I don't like war any more than most of you do, it isn't something to be rejoiced at, I'm trying to say, that this war shouldn't take place. I realize I risk AP censure, but, well, gas prices are high, and I think that we'd all be better off if no war took place. Instead, a ton of countries are spending tons of money, to destroy a nation that is, in reality, very backwards in a technological way. Hell, I look at this speech of Saddam Hussein, and I feel sorry for the guy, I can't help it, he's old, how much stress could he possibly take? The fear he must feel, is something that makes me feel a great deal of pity for him, so please, don't tell me I don't feel this or that, because you people really just don't know.
And don't ask me to feel pity for the people putting their lives on the line, because I think this was is immoral, so I can't feel very much for those who would prosecute a war against those who don't stand a chance, when factoring in things such as air power, combined troop numbers, technology etc.
I think it should.Quote:
I'm trying to say, that this war shouldn't take place.
Call me a freak but I support my country.
It's okay to have different opinions.
God, their missiles can't fly across the ocean. And they only others they might attack would be kuwait or israel, either way Iraq would get beaten back, they know that. So, tell me again why this war has to happen?Quote:
The bleeding hearts out there will whine and cry that there has not been enough proof, that they do not understand why people must die. Well, there has been proof. Inspectors found missiles that had been fitted to deliver chemical and/or biological payloads.
Also, people could you please help me keep this thread as AP free as possible? Please do so, as I have seen many threads become AP shops when people see what others get greenies for and decide to post something very similar. I really do not wish to have any fake opinions here, they only cheapen the thread, as well as the quality of the discussion in the thread. I also do not wish to have somebody decide not to post, because they fear AP censure, so please, everyone, help me keep this thread AP free, and as honest as possible.
I appreciate your understanding, and cooperation, thank you.
I have to agree with linuxelite on the AP issue, so i pose this question to the moderators:
Is it possible to have the AP assignment button removed from this thread? I think we can all trust you to remove those posts/people who made rude comments and such, but this should be a place where we can openly express our opinions on this current event..
With that said.. I can hear you all groaning already, "Oh no! Here comes one of those Anti-American, Anti-War, Pro-Human Life speeches." Well I promise not to disappoint.
Those of you who are American and support the war, I must commend you for your patriotism. It's easy to support someone when they are doing a good thing, but when they are doing a bad thing it's very hard to voice your support. For you Americans who are against the war, I also commend you for your bravery in speaking out against attrocious acts being commited by your country.
I do feel very bad for the loss of life that will occur, but not for the Americans. The Iraqi's have no weapons that can even reach your shores and take innocent lives. Yet your military will be over their killing innocent people by the 100s like they do in every war. If that same person shot a man in texas, you'd demand the death penalty, but because he's doing it while at "war" (can we even really call it that) you are applauding him for defending your nation. I feel bad for the families who will lose loved ones because of the war, but right now they are over their of their own free will.. there's no draft yet, they could leave. Maybe the best thing to do would be to let the Iraqi's kill one innocent American/British/Any Other country Participating, for each innocent Iraqi they kill. If Canada does go to war (I still pray they don't) I would gladly give my life in exchange for an innocent life that a Canadian solider took.
One of the first posts in this thread gas prices were metioned, and rightly so. That's what this war is about. Iraq could never attack America, not with their current technology. The American Government (I almost said American's but i corrected myself) wants to lower gas prices and if they control Iraq they can do that.
While the rest of what Specter6 said is half truths, that is entirely the truth. The American Government wants those gas price drops to occur.Quote:
Right now Iraq produces 2.5 million barrels of oil per day with antiquated technology. It is projected that with updated technology they can produce more than 10x that and will be able to rival the Saudis in production and give them some competition, thereby dropping oil (and subsequently gas) prices.
I will pray every night for this war to end. It is a useless event that will bring no good and only a loss of life. I will also pray for the families of those involved in the war war, and for the souls of the innocent people who die. I will also pray for the military men (and women) involved in the war but I will _NOT_ pray for their souls. They have condemned their souls already by stepping onto the battlefield. I hope the lack of life stays at a minimum, but if foolish pride keeps them out there and get's them killed, so be it.
Wars, for any reason, are a very unfortunate part of life. I remember hearing an old paradox, "If you want peace, then you must prepare for war." I think that in these situations it's best to take a step back, look at what we have and be appreciative that we have the opportunity to enjoy it all. If you feel a little nervous and/or upset about the current situation, as many do, perhaps try a quick prayer, or a not so quick one if you're in the mood. There are some very capable and talented people fighting, here's hoping they all come home no worse for the wear.
Hey HT, not only that, but, oil is power, everybody needs it, it is expensive, having control of it, is a very powerful thing.
Sure the Iraqis may not have weapons that can reach our shores, but they do have weapons that can reach our allies and support the people who did reach our shores prior to Sept. 11th, killing thousands including some of your countrymen.Quote:
Originally posted by HTRegz
I do feel very bad for the loss of life that will occur, but not for the Americans. The Iraqi's have no weapons that can even reach your shores and take innocent lives. Yet your military will be over their killing innocent people by the 100s like they do in every war.
In Texas, you kill somebody you get executed. And I applaud their efforts in that state. What’s your point?Quote:
If that same person shot a man in texas, you'd demand the death penalty, but because he's doing it while at "war" (can we even really call it that) you are applauding him for defending your nation.
Obviously, you have no sense of duty or obligation. True, there is no draft and we currently have an all-volunteer military, but when folks join, they sign a legally binding contract, so no, they cannot leave, they are legally (and hopefully morally) bound to live up to their obligations.Quote:
I feel bad for the families who will lose loved ones because of the war, but right now they are over their of their own free will.. there's no draft yet, they could leave. Maybe the best thing to do would be to let the Iraqi's kill one innocent American/British/Any Other country Participating, for each innocent Iraqi they kill.
Since you’re on the line of killing people – maybe we should kill one Iraqi soldier for every innocent Iraqi and Kurd they have killed following the orders of Hussein… Or possibly two for one for those who died at the hands of the terrorist networks they support and refuse to cut off aid.
Half-truths? Such as? If you’re going to attack my statements, let’s be specific. Don’t hide behind your screen and take pot shots at me if you cannot cite specifics and defend them. I’m sure as a non-combatant you know more about war in the region than I …Quote:
While the rest of what Specter6 said is half truths, that is entirely the truth. The American Government wants those gas price drops to occur.
“Condemned their souls…?” By doing their jobs? “Foolish pride?” How about putting food on the table and serving their country?Quote:
I will also pray for the families of those involved in the war war, and for the souls of the innocent people who die. I will also pray for the military men (and women) involved in the war but I will _NOT_ pray for their souls. They have condemned their souls already by stepping onto the battlefield. I hope the lack of life stays at a minimum, but if foolish pride keeps them out there and get's them killed, so be it.
I’m not sure how things work in Canada, but being in the military is a job here in America. And sometimes that job includes going to war. By it’s very nature it implies that! You sound like the whiny-assed Reservists and National Guardsmen during Desert Shield/Storm who cried and complained about being deployed. “I only signed up for the benefits, I never wanted to go to war.” Well, agree with it or not, war has been a part of human nature since we first were able to fashion clubs from sticks. It’s gonna happen. It’s never pretty and there are no guarantees. But sometimes it is necessary.
And if you’ve been watching any of the coverage, you’ll notice that there have been long spans of time between strikes that allow PsyOps to drop more leaflets and contact the Iraqi commanders and continue to try to persuade them to surrender. They have been told how to surrender and where. Troops who wish to give up will be spared; troops who choose to fight will be destroyed. It is their choices that will influence whether they live or die. It’s not like we are leveling entire cities, so stop acting that way. Baghdad has been hit pretty hard at this point, but they still have power and water, this is all in consideration of the thousands of innocent civilians that Hussein is using to shield military targets.
What happened to your awe of American Patriotism?
PS – I do have to agree tough, that APs for non-security related posts is asinine. This is an area to voice your opinions and discuss issues, not be punished for your views.
Those are the women, children, and elderly being killed by SoDamn Insane, right Deb?Quote:
Originally posted here by debwalin
I can't say anything more. Innocent women, children and elderly are dying right now as we talk about gas prices. Can anything be more important than that? No matter your opinion of this war, don't you have compassion for the innocent who are being killed right now? It's unspeakably sad to me.
Deb
Here's a list of facts if you want examples of the US government sticking their noses in others business (This list comes from Bowling from Columbine, an American Documentry made by an American) -- Specter6, I direct you to the bolded point. You claim American liberated Kuwait, all they did was reinstate a dictator, that's no liberation.
1953: U.S. overthrows Prime Minister Mossadeq of Iran. U.S. installs Shah as dictator.
1954: U.S. overthrows democratically-elected President Arbenz of Guatemala. 200,000 civilians killed.
1963: U.S. backs assassination of South Vietnamese President Diem.
1963-1975: American military kills 4 million civilians in Southeast Asia.
September 11, 1973: U.S. stages coup in Chile. Democratically elected president Salvador Allende assassinated. Dictator Augusto Pinochet installed. 5,000 Chileans murdered.
1977: U.S. backs military rulers of El Salvador. 70,000 Salvadorans and four American nuns killed.
1980's: U.S. trains Osama bin Laden and fellow terrorists to kill Soviets. CIA gives them $3 billion.
1981: Reagan administration trains and funds "contras". 30,000 Nicaraguans die.
1982: U.S. provides billions in aid to Saddam Hussein for weapons to kill Iranians.
1983: White House secretly gives Iran weapons to help them kill Iraqis.
1989: CIA agent Manuel Noriega (also serving as President of Panama) disobeys orders from Washington. U.S. invades Panama and removes Noriega. 3,000 Panamanian civilian casualties
1990: Iraq invades Kuwait with weapons from U.S.
1991: U.S. enters Iraq. Bush reinstates dictator of Kuwait.
1998: Clinton bombs "weapons factory" in Sudan. Factory turns out to be making aspirin.
1991 to present: American planes bomb Iraq on a weekly basis. U.N. estimates 500,000 Iraqi children die from bombing and sanctions.
2000-01: U.S. gives Taliban-ruled Afghanistan $245 million in "aid".
September 11, 2001: Osama Bin Laden uses his expert CIA training to murder 3,000 people.
As far as the what's my point about the death penalty in texas, You applaud them for killing the killers of the innocent, so why not kill the american soldiers who kill innocent civillians. As for a contract in the military, it's been proven before if you don't want to fight, there are ways out of it. And yes all Bush is doing is displaying foolish pride.
anyways have to run i'll post more later.. maybe
Maybe in the past - but with an all volunteer military there can be no conscientious objectors. They volunteered to join, they were trained to use weapons. They are legally bound.Quote:
Originally posted by HTRegz
As for a contract in the military, it's been proven before if you don't want to fight, there are ways out of it.
While I appreciate your effort in finding specific statistics, I was asking for specifics about your calling my statements half-truths. Which statements, and what is your justification?
I can spout stats all day. And yes, our government has pulled some pretty bone-headed stunts, but whose hasn't? If you're going to attack my statements, back it up.
Quote:
ntsa's signature
"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
Sir Winston Churchill.
Nice catch, huh? Specter's one is correct, btw :DQuote:
Specter6's signature
“I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it” - Voltaire
Sorry... as you were, gentleman ;)
I still haven't seen any real proof of any weapons of mass destruction. Although, chances are we will magically see them "appear" in Baghdad after The U.S "liberates" the city.....
I still haven't seen any real proof IRAQ having any links to Terrorism or the trainning of Terrorists...
I still haven't seen any real proof of IRAQ being involved in any way to the attcks on The U.S, Sept 11th...
What I personally have seen is the Australian media run a propaganda campaign that would have made Hitler proud. I've seen our Prime Minister talk of the attrocities commited by Saddam and how he must be removed for human rights issues. This is the same Prime Minister that refused to let Iraqi refugee's into Australia and accused them of throwing their Children Overboard in an attempt to keep these people out of Australia....
I've seen Australia's spineless PM be played like the puppet he is by the Bush regime....
The whole thing is pathetic and reeks of hypocrisy. Open your eyes people.
Hehe, I told ntsa that too negative.
Nice post htreg, good points, all of them. I just wanted to add one thing, that Johnson completely fabricated the reason for the vietnam war. They claimed that they had been attacked, when in reality, no such attack had taken place, and he knew it, but he needed a reason, and so he made on up.
Is it therefore so completely crazy to think that the US may have fabricated evidence, or just didn't bother to provide any, so that they could obtain control of strategic oil reserves? I do not think so.
Supporting your country is one thing, but blindly following your leader is never a good choice. Without people questioning their leaders, there is no democracy, it is a dictatorship, which, coincedentally, is what the US accuses Saddam Hussein of being.
These are the women, children and elderly being killed by bombs dropped by our government and allies, knowing full well that they are being used as human shields. It doesn't matter whose fault it is that they are being used, what matters is the fact that we are knowingly and willingly killing defenseless civilians. Nothing will ever make that right.Quote:
Originally posted here by KorpDeath
Those are the women, children, and elderly being killed by SoDamn Insane, right Deb?
Deb
So because people are being mistreated, we shouldn't bother to go in? Not a bad line of logic, however, anyone who uses people as human shields (or even suggest that people be used as shields) shouldn't be in power, anyway.Quote:
Originally posted here by debwalin
These are the women, children and elderly being killed by bombs dropped by our government and allies, knowing full well that they are being used as human shields. It doesn't matter whose fault it is that they are being used, what matters is the fact that we are knowingly and willingly killing defenseless civilians. Nothing will ever make that right.
Deb
And yeah no proof, blah, blah blah. We know what he has, we, unfortunately gave him some of his weapons. The Soviet Union twinked Iran and we twinked Iraq, to stop the Soviets "advance".
This is a moot discussion anyway. I'm glad none of you make the decisions for your countries. That's just my opinion and as we all know "opinions are like a-holes......".
But is the man dropping the bombs and killing those defenseless civilians any better than the man usinng them as shields?Quote:
human shields (or even suggest that people be used as shields) shouldn't be in power, anyway.
And if Afghanistan, the US killed many civilians, and the worst thing about it is that they denied it all. I trust channels like BBC, and CBC for us canadians, that have stated that fact. They kill civilians and then pretend that it didn't happen, as though some magical dust killed those people and created a crater.
unilateral "preemptive" war(massacre) against Iraq = 1 billion very pissed off muslims , and an isolated and feared 300 million Americans with very little international support .
Specter6:
The statement I was refering to was your claim that the US liberated Kuwait. How can you call it liberation when they are reinstating a dictator.Quote:
While I appreciate your effort in finding specific statistics, I was asking for specifics about your calling my statements half-truths. Which statements, and what is your justification?
KorpDeath:
Are people in Iraw being mistreated? Yes.
Is that a reason to bomb innocent people, because you are trying to kill one fanatical dictator? NEVER.
But that isn't the point, it's up for a country to deal with their own internal affairs. America can't seem to deal with itself on the homeland front, so why is it trying to deal with other countries. Maybe when you can successfully run your own country, then you can stick your noses in other business. I mean hell offering Turkey billions of dollars in exchange for them allowing US troops access to Turkish soil to launch an attack. That money could be better spent in other places.
I just hope that there will be a bare minimum of civilian casualties. One thing i can say though the United States really needs to find those WMD, so the efforts will be vindicated. At least in the eyes of the United Nations. My bet is the weapons are there and will be found. I hope my countries men and women come back safely.
woooooh, I am done reading.
Four words
I support my President
No the reason to go in and remove SoDamn Insane from power is for the entire world. The entire world voted to disarm him and these are the "serious consequences" we promised. Now we gave an ultimatum, he had a choice.....now all of sudden all those naysayers and whiners are backing, who??? All but the French, Germans, and Russians. The ones with the most to lose....look, I don't care if you ever agree with me. I've got a life to get back to, but you really aren't "in the know" when you slam the U.S. Just pray we are wrong....
This tread has made many interesting and good points for both sides and proves how different we really are.Quote:
Hell, I look at this speech of Saddam Hussein, and I feel sorry for the guy, I can't help it, he's old, how much stress could he possibly take? The fear he must feel, is something that makes me feel a great deal of pity for him, so please, don't tell me I don't feel this or that, because you people really just don't know.
This quote above, I am sorry but the man should live in fear. What kind of person uses other human beings as shields? Has rape rooms and public beheadings daily? I'm sorry but the man is no saint. Its one thing to pity someone for what they are but what they do can never be excused. Am I saying that it's the U.S.'s job to go take him out? Hell no! Its the worlds responsiblity! How can we let the people of Iraq live like that? Would any of you? Is it alright if your wife(or self) is dragged out of your house and bruitily raped and there is no consequence because the government did it?
So lets say we liberate them and they say "Get the hell out!" I say fine, leave. But what if they are gratetful?Relieved? If these kinds of things are going on in other countries is it not the obligation of the world to do something? I am not just talking about Iraq but ALL countries?
I would say that I have to commend the U.S. even if most think that the motives are bad are we still not doing a good thing for its people? Most of the interviews I have seen are men and women that want freedom.
I am not picking on this quote its just what got me going....
And no I cant say anything about the timing of this war, I am as baffled as most and what others have said about training Bin Laden and arming them, well thats interesting as well aint it.
I am AMERICAN and I am not saying that this is the best thing in the world, war is never good but if something good comes out of it what then? If Iraq did attack another country first would the world not say "Where is the U.S.?" Seems to me that this happens alot.
I just dont think that atrocities that happen in other countries should be ignored.
And to those that dont approve of Americans, its not like we voted for war. We just partake in the decisions of our government....nothing more.....
I am not a liberal and I do support our troops....
Quote:
Originally posted by HTRegz
Specter6:
The statement I was refering to was your claim that the US liberated Kuwait. How can you call it liberation when they are reinstating a dictator.
If you had payed any attention to what I had said and to what had happened you would realize that Kuwait was invaded by Iraq. The whole premise of Desert Shield/Storm was to liberate Kuwait from Iraq.
The government of Kuwait has always been peaceful. We had no need to depose their current gov't, that's not why we were there. Why not stick to the facts instead of entering into arguments blindly and resorting to personal attacks?
I appreciate your right to your opinion, but if you are going to accuse me of stating half-truths prove it.
And to all you bleeding hearts out there, if the Iraqi army continues to surrender they way they are beginning to, the agrression will stop.
"Fighting for peace is like ****ing for virginity" - anonymous
To all: "I'm a pacifist. Let's kill them bastards.":
I want to paste all **** I said already here but it's pointless, you will hear it but you won't listen. I'm more dangerous then Sadaam, because I do have chemical weapons. It's a weak minded and primitive way of thinking to "just nuke the whole place off the map.. and then start over calling it america beta version 2". You can say whatever you want to me, you are not 'just' removing weapons. You are going to kill whatever you do. You kill, not someone else and it isn't someone else's fault. You. No proof, no sufficient reason, not the right way, not the right time, not the right circumstances.
http://www.antionline.com/showthread...499#post612172
To all: "I'm a pacifist. Fighting is pointless. Enough said.":
Many of you exist to. Peace to all.
i wish you had said you were a pacifist at the start neel. that really is a whole different story and i can respect that. i hope you ethical convictions are never tested.
You must be a visionair ;)Quote:
Originally posted by Kapperdog
Hey guys, I hate to tell you but...nobody's going to die in this war unless the Marines crash another chopper.
The US government already awarded contracts to 6 different companies to help rebuild Iraq before the war had even started...Quote:
Originally posted by Kapperdog
By the way, since my business is bidding government contracts and most of yours is not, you probably didn't see the 82 billion dollar contract the American Gov just awarded to rebuild the last place we bombed........let's see, it was Afghanistan last time.
The man who will be responsible to oversee rebuilding of the post-war Iraq is Jay Garner (head of the Office and Reconstruction and Humanitarian Assistance). Untill a few weeks ago, Garner was an executive at L-3. I wonder what the Iraqi's will think about someone who has been responsible for developing targeting systems for missiles (systems that will be used in this war) as the leader of a team to rebuild Iraq...
Look above: 6 companies already have a contract.Quote:
Originally posted by Kapperdog
And in about 6 months look for the one to rebuild Iraq.
Blix and his team never found proof of the existence of weapons of mass destruction. Period.Quote:
Originally posted by Specter6
The bleeding hearts out there will whine and cry that there has not been enough proof, that they do not understand why people must die. Well, there has been proof. Inspectors found missiles that had been fitted to deliver chemical and/or biological payloads. And people must die now to save more lives in the future.
They found some missiles that could be used to deliver chemical payloads. As stated by one of the weapons inspectors: "No one has 100% proof that the other party has chemical or biological weapons. The US claim they destroyed their own stocks. We have NOT found chemical agents during our weapons inspections. Iraq itself claims to have destroyed them all. We can't be sure of it though. It's like having intimate contact with someone: you'll never be sure he isn't HIV-infected. That latent threat can be compare to chemical and biological weapons. However minimal the chance is, you always keep it into account.'
Now, something about the chemical/biological weapons that Saddam might posses:
- Blix asked Iraq for an explanation for the 'loss' of some missing VX-gas.
- Blix asked Iraq for an explanation for the 'loss' of two tons of a substance that could be used to fabricate biological weapons such as anthrax, as well as 550 artillery-grenades filled with mustard-gas.
Iraq handed Blix a report about the VX, but there was no time to verify it (doh).
About the missiles that could be used to deliver those payloads:
Washington's biggest fear is Iraq firing an Al-Hussein or Al-Abbas-missile (variants of the Russian Scud) with a chemical payload on Israel (Israel already stated that it would return such an attack. America stated that it would do everything to prevent Israel from getting involved, as that would probably lead to WW III. What's more, in the case of an Iraqi attack with chemical weapons on American soldiers, the US will retaliate... with NUCLEAR weapons for crying out loud.)
According to the CIA and MI5, Iraq has somewhere between 6 and 24 Al-Hussein- (range: 600 km) and Al-Abbas- (range: 800km) missiles.
Iraq used to have 819 scuds. According to Unscom, Iraq has proven that it has used 817 of them already (in Iran and the Gulf War). Al-Hussein and Al-Abbas missiles though are so stupid they couldn't even hit the Eifel Tower if they would be fired right next to it.
And something on missiles with a biological payload... Anthrax, to name just one, is a living organism. Put it in a scud, and the detonation temperature would 'disinfect' the virus (read as: destroy it). It could be done, sure... by the US, maybe some European countries with vast knowledge of both biology and missiles... Biological warfare is too complex for Iraq.
I completely agree. France, Germany, Russia, Belgium... we ALL agree that Saddam is a dictator, don't be mistaken.Quote:
Originally posted by Specter6
Leaving Hussein in power will ensure that Iraq will not be a prosperous nation and that its people will continue to suffer under a dictator who has an unbelievably horrific record of abuse towards his own people.
looks like your not alone \/IP3R:
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76% of americans polled by CNN/USA Today/Gallup on Thursday night approve of the United States' decision to go to war with Iraq
http://gallup.com/poll/releases/pr030321.asp
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I wish to apologize to the people who received negatives from a kiddie. Somebody, must be new, gave away negatives to a load of posts, fairly pathetic attempt though, since it was just one point. Still, I meant for everybody to be safe from the AP game.
With that out of the way, let's talk Saddam. Negative, quite right, they never found any conclusive proof of "weapons of mass destruction".
The only reason to protect Kuwait during the gulf war was to protect an oil producing country, and keep it free from another, which the US wasn't chummy with. The US does NOT care about liberating, and/or helping embattled peoples.
Robert Mugabe has had white land owners murdered, US never complained.
Kim Jong Il, (Is that spelled correctly? Doesn't look like it) has had many of his people tortured in his capital city, in fact, many of the buildings in the capital are there for nothing, they are not occupied, just there to make Pyongyang look nicer, more metropolitan. Again, the US never said anything.
Let's face facts, this war isn't about liberating the people of Iraq, it isn't about enforcing a UN declaration.
And, like negative said, there is international law set out by the UN, that sets the conditions for a war, US basically ignored those conditions and decided to persue it's war regardless.
you have it backwards, the inspectors wernt there to find evidence of WMDs, they where there to find evidence that Iraq Destroyed the WMD Everyone knows they have. the inspectors found nothing. be default, if they had them, and now they are gone, they must have gone some where. us claims saddam has moved them. iraq claims they were all destroyed and then they "lost" all the evidence that they ever existed.
and legality is in the eye of the beholder. it is delibratly worded vaugly so nations have some wiggle room. and he contract is awarded on basis who is the best qualified to do it, several companies from ALL OVER THE WORLD proably submitted a bid. and ummm who said we never said anything about N.K. i hear bad things about him all the time, and also i think isnt NK currently embargoed by america? and the only reason we were shiping him oil and food is as part as a bribe to make him behave himself.
3 words for you.
means
motive
opurtunity.
iraq has all three against them so we struck.
china, and NK dont.
Iran has all but a motive. if they give us one, and the normal diplomatic pressure dosent work, they are likly to be invaded also.
u also must relize that there IS a process. NK and iraq are apples and oranges, u cant compare the two. there is no such thing as cut and paste diplomacy. all countreis are unique, no one policy can govern them all.