Jupiter media, my opinion

im sorry but it seems to me that jupiter doesen give a damn about us, they change ****, and when we comment, the try to hide what we say buy taking the threads off the main page, IE the logo thread (http://www.antionline.com/showthread...hreadid=241525)

i personally find this extremely rude and would rather see antionline go down then have its reputation ruined by a bunch of self rightous fools. In my opinion it seems that they want to get rid of anyone that cares and attract a bunch of lame ass people to turn this into a flame fest site

i mean they dont seem to recognise many things we say....ive not seen them comment on the logo, ive not heard them mention anything about site make-overs, ::EDIT i was wrong http://www.antionline.com/showthread...hreadid=241198
BUT that thread never showed up on the main page...where i would think it belongs....it seems like an important anouncement to me
and if i am please correct me, maybe theres a hidden link somewhere that i dont know about.


would anyone else apreciate some sort of notice about wahts happening to the site that we helped jp build? we provided the content and without us this site wouldent exist, am i correct?



i dont know im REALLY REALLY bad with words, but my point is that i think a little more communication on jupiters part would be in their best intrest

Agreed.

I second that.

You have to realize, that these people are probably extremely busy. There were times, too, when JP didn't answer you right away about matters, but you cut him slack because this was his site and generally everyone loved him. But now that the new management is here, I don't think you're giving them a fair chance. I mean, if you think about it...Has this place really changed all that much? We don't have IRC on the site anymore, but JP set up a server for us to chat. So far, they've moved forums around and changed some colors, and people are all upset. What did you expect with new ownership? Let them finish doing their thing, and then say something about it, but at least give them the chance. Don't expect them to answer your questions right away. And for as rude as a coming that you've given to them, I think they've been quite courteous with your questions and the promptness of their answers. Just because you say jump and they don't say 'How High?' isn't a reason to get all upset. Give them time and a chance, it's the least we can do.

the thing is weve recieved a very very very EXTREMELY small amount of information from these people, they barely talk to us, i mean the only reason i recognise them is because of the damned gold dot.. other then that its as if they dont exist.... at least jp let us know he existed

Well I've to agree that there some changes I don't like, but as I recall intmon replies often and
even added a nice forum ,as MsMittens suggested....

I would suggest to cut them some slack and let some time go over it, and set a date or something
where the new owners start a thread like ' OK, changes done.... what do you like and what do you suggest...'
From the other side, I'll have to agree too that there's a communication prob towards members.

well, just my 2 european euros,

I would say we should make our own security web site where we can practice and discuss security. Where everyone can give their opinion, I am agreed with SarinMage Jupitermedia don't care and this is the least advertised website they own if you will see their another web sites they are fill with ads. Who knows how much they are going to change this web site. IMHO ol AO sign rocks and new sucks.

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JUPITER HASENT RESPONDED TO THIS THREAD YET
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I WOULD LIKE SOMEONE FROM JUPITER TO GIVE ME THEIR OPINION
I WOULD LIKE JUPITER TO PROOVE ME WRONG

Well, like I've said before, it's not that hard to make a simple post explaining a major change that will effect the entire site. Yes, GreekGoddess, you are correct, they are not here to kiss our ass. I do think, however, they should try a little harder in the communication department. Something like a temporary sticky post on the main page to alert the members of major site changes would be one step in the right direction.

I originally came to this site to learn a little about security and have been guided to thousands of resources. I remain because this is (or was) one of the best online communities I have ever participated in.
I liked to drop in on a regular basis to see what was new and interesting and if nothing else was happening I would look at the general chit chat and really enjoyed some of cosmos. I am relatively new here but if things keep going in the direction they appear to be heading I will just quickly scan the active topics every couple of days and remember, fondly, where my learning grew by leaps and bounds. Fast this site is becoming, not a community, but a resource. Some will like it, some not. I will give jupiter media the benefit of the doubt and reserve judgement until i see the finished product.

im not judgeing their ability im judgeing there lack of comunication with the people that give them the content, the people that helped you learn, the people that make this site what it is,

THIS SITE IS NOTHING WITHOUT US so stop leaving us in the dark,

i

A couple of days ago, a new logo has been added to the site. I personally don't need a post telling me that a new logo has been added... I mean, it's pretty obvious. As you may have noticed, the scrollbars have been changed as well. Again, I don't need a post telling me that.

As many of you have stressed over and over again, this site is about its content. Yet a lot of you seem to be offended by the change of the looks of AO. What is this site about? Content? Or looks? The same people could be heard when GCC, Cosmos and the like were taken off the main page. I personally didn't need a post to tell me that (pretty obvious again, yet some people still didn't get it a week after the changes). The reasoning for this change has been explained by JUPM, over and over again. Every post (even questions about the change a week after the change) has been answered, over and over again. May I also remind you that this change is something that has been requested numerous times already?

It's obvious (again) that JUPM wants to concentrate on security, and it's obvious that the recent changes are only made for that sole purpose.

Lack of communication on JUPM's part?
The non-security forums have been taken off the main page, as announced. Even if you didn't realize it at first, you are free to ask a question about it, and your question has always been answered, clear and to the point.
The logo has been changed. You are free to comment on the new logo, you are free (hint hint) to contribute another one,...
There's been some experimenting with banners, as announced and explained.

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Originally posted by SarinMage
i mean the only reason i recognise them is because of the damned gold dot..

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To make it easy for you, here's who/what JUMP is:

Intmon, or Scott Clark, admin
Jupman, or Gus Venditto, admin
LordB, server guy
StreetRunner, admin

Not that difficult to find out ;)

i see your point, but i still would apreciate something more. i mean, JP did a really good job of letting us know whats going on... it jsut seems that they are changeing things and doing **** to the site that maybe they should mention to us....


like... maybe... why the site was down all yesterday, **** like that

Hrm, and maybe, everytime they take a pee break they should report that to you also?

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Originally posted here by SarinMage
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JUPITER HASENT RESPONDED TO THIS THREAD YET
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I WOULD LIKE SOMEONE FROM JUPITER TO GIVE ME THEIR OPINION
I WOULD LIKE JUPITER TO PROOVE ME WRONG

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Um, it's Sunday, dude. Chill.

whats your problem

i never said i wanted an answwer right this ****ing second, jesus why dont you read my posts and see what im talking about, why dont YOU back off me, im not harassing or badgering them, im asking for other people that agree with me to post there opinions, so if yo uhave nothign to say about the subject dont post, i dont want to hear you talk about your opinion of ME thats not the topic of the thread


NEVER ONCE DID I SAY THEY HAD TO ANSWER ME RIGHT NOW

I ASKED THEM TO PROOVE ME WRONG, WHATS WRONG WITH THAT?

Hey Hey,

I just said in another thread some of this stuff, but that's ok... heh

Anyways... Like everyone is saying .. it would be nice to know what's going on, but at the same time like Negative said these changes are cosmtic. they haven't really affected the content that much, although moving the non-security forums off the main page affects content in a way. I'm not so much worried about what their doing to the site anymore after reading these posts... I'm worried about the war/rift it's causing between AOers. We're supposed to be a community, and with a lot of these posts lately we look more like a bunch of immature school kids, maybe the main page should be something along the lines of "AntiOnline.Com - Hackers/Crackers welcome, becaue you can't be more immature than we are right now." We (myself included) need to pull together and show that we are still a community, instead of jumping down eachothers throats. I think we should chill for a bit and see if JUPM decides to include us in the happenings of AO and if they don't, then let's wait and see what happens completely, and then we'll give them hell. :D

We made the new logo live right before everyone left for the evening on Thursday. I was out on a short 3-day vacation from Friday through the weekend, and didn't have net access, so today when I got back was the first I'd heard that the site was down, and it was back online at that point. We'll do everything we can to keep everyone informed of any changes on the site, but some, such as the logo change, seemed obvious and minor enough that no announcement was made.

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whats your problem

i never said i wanted an answwer right this ****ing second, jesus why dont you read my posts and see what im talking about

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Where to start? Let's see..... you posted a raving demand for information on Saturday morning, and by Sunday morning you attack them for not responding to your demands within 24 hours. Then you attack other members for reasonably pointing out that it's the weekend and that they, like most of us, probably don't work on the weekend. I think a little common sense is in order here.

The fact is, as Negative pointed out, most of the changes you are complaining about were discussed either among the members or by Jupiter (or both) before and after the fact. There were numerous threads in which Jupiter discussed their intentions for the site and where members were given an opportunity to voice their opinions. The fact that you either missed those discussions or disagree with the outcome is not their fault. And even if they weren't discussed, one would think they're obvious enough to not need a lot of explanation. The bottom line is that Jupiter is a business and they will listen if they think it makes sense, and otherwise they will do what they think they have to in order to run a successful business. Taking GCC and Cosmos off the main page was a change that was requested and heavily favored by the membership because everybody was complaining about the lack of security content, and they gave us what we asked for. And for that, you accuse them of not listening to the community and burying threads as part of a consipracy to prevent you from knowing what's going on?

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would anyone else apreciate some sort of notice about wahts happening to the site that we helped jp build? we provided the content and without us this site wouldent exist, am i correct?

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You don't seem to realize that a) you *are* demanding an immediate response to your tirade and b) you are in a position to demand nothing. JP provided a forum in which he allowed us - on his nickle - to express our opinions and join a community that he created. He created the site and all its resources, paid the bills, and allowed us to use the site for free, and now you're claiming a stake in it on the grounds that you chose to avail yourself of his work? Give me a break. And the same is now true of Jupiter. This is not your site, my site, our site, the community's site, or anything of the sort. They ponied up the cash and they pay the bills, so it is theirs to do with as they please. We can offer suggestions, and they can listen or not, but they owe us nothing.

I, for one, do not envy their position at all. I know from experience that it's hard as hell to walk into an established business and try to make the changes that need to be made. Everybody - both employees and customers - bucks at change, and all the armchair quarterbacks think they have it all figured out and think they can do better. It's not an easy job, and most of the people complaining around here really don't have any idea how hard it is. So how about cutting them some slack and cooling your jets just a little?

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rather see antionline go down then have its reputation ruined by a bunch of self rightous fools. In my opinion it seems that they want to get rid of anyone that cares and attract a bunch of lame ass people to turn this into a flame fest site

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Looks like they've already got one to start.

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Originally posted here by intmon
We made the new logo live right before everyone left for the evening on Thursday. I was out on a short 3-day vacation from Friday through the weekend, and didn't have net access, so today when I got back was the first I'd heard that the site was down, and it was back online at that point. We'll do everything we can to keep everyone informed of any changes on the site, but some, such as the logo change, seemed obvious and minor enough that no announcement was made.

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thank you, thats all i was asking for,

BTW

what did happen to the site, im just curious

I think he only wanted to them to talk, like JP did.
Not much, but a little more communicative,
and look, what a fuss has been created.

In the end, i believe, it's about adjustment, and we're the ones who're gonna have to make it. Remember, nobody's paying to be in here.

i just dont like the feeling i get from the new people, i mean regardless of weather they mean it or not, the stupid thing with the top 10 antipoint earners, adn how they have 1000 posts without posting that many times.. that ****, it jsut seems like there trying to be big men and show off to us without giving us anything to go by, i dont doubt that they know what there doing, i just dont like the belittlement that we seem to get from them, im gonna say again even if they dont meanit, its there

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how they have 1000 posts without posting that many times..

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This is not what happened. What happened is that when some people thought it would be fun to neg on the new owners, in order to overcome the negative points, we had to change the number of antipoints some of us had. There wasn't any change to the number of posts.

Believe me, no one here is trying to claim posts they didn't earn or is being dishonest about anything. As soon as someone pointed out the unexpected result of having all of those points (ie, they appeared among the top point earners), we adjusted the AP. We also by then had learned of other technical means to protect against negging.

The only reason the points were added was because we didn't have another way of adjusting for the point negging.

I think many people recognize that when someone has a good suggestion about how to make the site more valuable as a community of people interested in security, we're doing it.

We can't give you a master plan because we're listening to what people tell us. Now, we can't just grant every request -- the current software has limits. But when something makes sense, we're doing it. Like the logo contest -- people here said they could do better, so we're throwing it out as a contest to see if someone here can do better.

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Originally posted here by JupMan


This is not what happened. What happened is that when some people thought it would be fun to neg on the new owners, in order to overcome the negative points, we had to change the number of antipoints some of us had. There wasn't any change to the number of posts.

Believe me, no one here is trying to claim posts they didn't earn or is being dishonest about anything.

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I don't think it was a dishonest attempt. Nor do I think it was done as an attempt to belittle anyone. There is an assumption that because JUPM is a corporate entity they are evil or corrupt or.. fill-in-evil-thought-here. This isn't necessarily true and strikes me as an assumption.

However, to be accurate, there is one member of the JUPM team that did change his post count:

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From intmon's profile

Posts: 1010
[ 21.52 posts per day ]
[0.17% of total posts]

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I think that there has been a bit of getting on the wrong foot as well as people being extremely resitent to change, especially when they feel they aren't informed of when, how and why the changes will occur. That said, I don't come here to worry about what changes will occur. I came here and still come here because of the security discussions. That is what the site is about and what the members who make a difference are about as well. I come here to learn, as there is always something new for me to learn.

Keep this in mind: the members make up the community. If you leave the site, you hur the community. If you stay, you add to it. JUPM can never take that away. They may change, alter, squiggle, squaggle, etc. the environment which we communicate in but the community, if it's as strong as I believe it is, should last no matter what the communication method is or looks like.

i said that regardless of wheather or not they ment it thats what i felt like, the fact that you came in here and xplained it makes things seem a lot better, your no longer seem to be some unknow mysterious force, but a real person that i can relate more to, thank you and im sorry if i got a little uptight, but some of people that commented to me about it kinda pissed me off,
like invader said i jsut want yo uto talk to us, and not be behind the scenes, like some sort of watchdog.

MsMittens is correct Jupman, I needed to have get into the Addict's forum for a look around and couldn't get in without pumping up my post number. That said, I've changed it back to it's real number, and must state that I didn't mean to offend anyone by doing this--just needed to validate the use of the forum.

You have to give them credit for the fact that with somethings that really pissed us off they fixed it, I.E. the top ten AP earners list. Not that I'm a huge fan of the way things are going, but if you're going to criticize the bad, let's not forget the good as well.

Now...I do have a question I'd like an honest yes or no answer to, and not a lot of corporate BS about maybe at some point in the future, we haven't decided what is in the best interest of the site, blah blah blah...but I've looked at some of the other sites, and talked to a few people and it appears that JupMedia does on occasion charge a fee for access to an entire site. I'd like to know if that is in the future for AO?

Deb

Nope, we will not be charging folks for access to the site. We do have several sites like that, such as WinDrivers.com, but this will not be one of them. Straight.

I stand corrected re: the post count. But I hope people see it was simply a work-around and done to help keep the site running.

As intmon said, there is no plan to charge for the site --- it would not work and we'd be crazy to try.

A site like this needs to be free -- if we charged, someone would launch a competitive site in about 5 minutes. At the other sites where we charge $ for content or services it is because we are producing something unique that is expensive to maintain.

At Antinonline, Jupitermedia is really just acting as a host and the company's role is to make sure the community has the platform to share information. We know there is no way this community would ever be viable as paid site -- that is clear for as long as anyone could see into the future.

The one thing we do want to do over time is have links to other types of relevant content -- security news and other technology news -- but not in a way that would interfere with the discussion forums. And, over time, to try and improve some of the features (like antipoints) in ways that most people will consider them an improvement.

I believe that is the only "grand plan" for the site -- and it's pretty much the same thing I was saying a few weeks ago when we had the first discussions about what Jupitermedia would do with Antionline.

thank you for talking to us, thats all i was asking for,

Thanks very much for your answers. They were the ones I was really hoping to hear. I'm glad there are no plans to make that kind of changes, because I'm afraid it would be really detrimental to the site. ;)

Deb

blah... as long as we have a company running this site with more priorities than pleasing users, there are always going to be problems. There is really no point in complaining, as they paid for it and have the right to do whatever, but agreed sarin whole heartedly, they should AT LEAST give an opinion or some sort of reasoning for the overly lame stuff going on....

always agree sarin :P

(note: remember the channel paritioning muahahahha)